Breshad Perriman: Bust or Late Developer?

[robbie29]

So after sitting his rookie season, Breshad Perriman has 405 yds receiving and 3 TDs thru 14 games. Thoughts?

Edited December 24, 2016 by robbie29

[RayRocks]

He's done approximately what I've expected from him in his first real season (and as the 4th receiver on the depth chart).  For comparison, Torrey Smith who was the 2nd/3rd receiver on the depth chart had about 850 yards each of his first 2 seasons.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

He seems to have a spectacular play every game. He shows traits of a #1 and looked a hell of a lot better than expected. A full training camp is going to do him wonders. He is by far the most talented WR we have ever drafted. It's a real shame that we have a guy that doesn't use him a lot. 

[robbie29]

22 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

He seems to have a spectacular play every game. He shows traits of a #1 and looked a hell of a lot better than expected. A full training camp is going to do him wonders. He is by far the most talented WR we have ever drafted. It's a real shame that we have a guy that doesn't use him a lot. 

I'm sorry but NO- he is not the most talented WR the Ravens have ever drafted. He's the fastest, OK. But speed means zippo when you can't catch. I think the issue has less to do with Flacco and more to do with Perriman's route running and hands.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

30 minutes ago, robbie29 said:

I'm sorry but NO- he is not the most talented WR the Ravens have ever drafted. He's the fastest, OK. But speed means zippo when you can't catch. I think the issue has less to do with Flacco and more to do with Perriman's route running and hands.

He can catch the ball. Not consistently cause he had mental lapses but he can catch. Someone who can make spectacular catches can catch the ball. Perriman is the most talented. Big, strong, fast, strong hands when he doesn't have mental lapses, and looks significantly improved as a route runner from college.  

 

Sorry, he's the most talented. He was raw, and didn't really have any training camp, so when adding that all together he was good

[JoeyFlex5]

considering hes never had an NFL training camp and didnt even have the "luxury" of starting the season in football shape(at the rate this team gets injured, it really does seem like a luxury huh?) id say hes doing pretty well. his talent is undeniable and he puts it on display, the hiccups here and there are expected, he has never had a chance to get his timing down, he is just now learning the speed of the NFL, he has yet to take development reps and all of his reps have been about executing the playbook(those TC reps are crucial because players have the luxury of time, where they can learn from coaches, every few snaps coaches will tell players what to improve on for personal development), and i think most importantly, he is the 3rd receiver on the depth chart atm, which means he is often the 4th read on plays where he sees the field, and thats not an indictment on him, but that speaks more to the receivers ahead of him and the coaching staffs patience with him. they know this isnt some throwaway development season, they cant put a raw guy out there with limited playbook knowledge because ONE miscommunication could easily be the difference between playoffs or not. 

plus, look at many of the stud receivers and their rookie stats. hes on par or better than many of them at this point in their careers, and many of them actually had a chance for offseason  development.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, robbie29 said:

I'm sorry but NO- he is not the most talented WR the Ravens have ever drafted. He's the fastest, OK. But speed means zippo when you can't catch. I think the issue has less to do with Flacco and more to do with Perriman's route running and hands.

cant believe this got a thumbs up. 

to say he cant catch, when he has made a jaw dropping spectacular catch nearly every week this season, is ridiculous. nobody blamed flacco(although flacco has missed him on multiple touchdowns where perriman beat his defender like he stole something) but its often a timing and mental lapse thing. and believe it or not, its extremely common with uber-talented receivers. fun fact, dez bryant has a 50% catch rate, steve smith and anquan boldin have each had seasons with the ravens where they were near the tops in the league in drops, demaryius thomas and julio jones have also had seasons with absurd drop numbers. its really far more common than you think. 

for perriman to come in here and far surpass his floor despite 2 knee injuries and missing both training camps and going nearly 2 years without playing a single game snap, is impressive in itself. for him to come in and make some of the spectacular catches hes made, and even better show development in his route tree and show the ability to beat the best corners in the league over the top, is incredible. 400+ yards and multiple td's is an excellent first year for him when considering all the factors. 

some people would rather see the most exciting draft pick in years bust just so they can say "i told ya so" rather than see him excel and do well. i seriously do not understand this mentality.

[K-Dog]

7 hours ago, robbie29 said:

I'm sorry but NO- he is not the most talented WR the Ravens have ever drafted. He's the fastest, OK. But speed means zippo when you can't catch. I think the issue has less to do with Flacco and more to do with Perriman's route running and hands.

Who have we drafted better?

[Prino61]

I don't think he's on the field enough, I  think he should play more snaps 

[ellicottraven]

Give him time to develop and get reps. He's probably 4th on the depth chart right now. I would like to know his average snaps/game the games he's suited up for. I think he's done fairly well in his real rookie season especially given he came off an injury and wasn't really had to work himself into football shape through the initial few games. I like that he's had 3 TD passes which is nothing to scoff at and almost had another awesome one prior to stepping off the field.

I say he's the most gifted of all our receivers and but may need more time to develop than typical. I expect him to get better with a full TC behind him and increased confidence and snaps and targets.

[Ravensfan23]

6 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

considering hes never had an NFL training camp and didnt even have the "luxury" of starting the season in football shape(at the rate this team gets injured, it really does seem like a luxury huh?) id say hes doing pretty well. his talent is undeniable and he puts it on display, the hiccups here and there are expected, he has never had a chance to get his timing down, he is just now learning the speed of the NFL, he has yet to take development reps and all of his reps have been about executing the playbook(those TC reps are crucial because players have the luxury of time, where they can learn from coaches, every few snaps coaches will tell players what to improve on for personal development), and i think most importantly, he is the 3rd receiver on the depth chart atm, which means he is often the 4th read on plays where he sees the field, and thats not an indictment on him, but that speaks more to the receivers ahead of him and the coaching staffs patience with him. they know this isnt some throwaway development season, they cant put a raw guy out there with limited playbook knowledge because ONE miscommunication could easily be the difference between playoffs or not. 

plus, look at many of the stud receivers and their rookie stats. hes on par or better than many of them at this point in their careers, and many of them actually had a chance for offseason  development.

He's 4th on the depth chart right now. Aiken is clearly in front of him but that makes the fact that he's 3rd in yards and TDs on this team even more impressive. I agree with everything else. 

Judging by how excited the Ravens were about Perriman in mini camps last year and actually seeing why they were so excited with his play this year, there is no doubt in my mind that Perriman would have been the #2 WR last year and probably force feed as a #1 a little bit more this year(with or without SR). With that being the case his targets per game would increase which means his stats would increase. The notion that he can't catch is ridiculous and it's hard to take any who makes that claim serious. Does he have drops here or there yes, but what WR doesn't. Hell Brandon Marshall is a notorious dropper(is that a thing lol) and he's easily a top 5-10 WR over his career regardless of the team he's played for. In fact just doing a little digging, some of the best WRs drop balls at a high rate. Dez, DT, Cruz, Welker, Crabtree and even our very own SSS, so saying Perriman can't catch is foolish to me. He's basically a rookie who hasn't had any Training Camp developmental time in 2 years. 

1 hour ago, Prino61 said:

I don't think he's on the field enough, I  think he should play more snaps 

I was saying this a lot about 3 weeks ago, but I realized that he's not ready to get more snaps. I wanted him to get reps over Aiken but Perriman isn't capable of handling the slot role at this time and there is no way we'll take SR or Wallace off the field much. So he has to get in where he fits in. Those 20-25 snaps per game he gets is about as much as you can expect from him. What he has to do is take full advantage of those reps now because the Ravens are in crunch time, they can't afford to miss opportunities because Perriman isn't on the same page. I think back to the missed sight adjustment between he and Flacco in the NE game. Flacco read blitz but Perriman didn't so when Joe quickly threw the ball to him Perriman wasn't even ready. That took a easy 1st down off the board and would have placed the offense in scoring position. Instead they punted. Didn't seem like much but it was a huge play in the game imo. Aiken is the better slot WR and if Camp is giving more opportunities as has been stated than Perriman might see even less opportunity going forward. 

[ravensnj]

I was hoping Julio Jones, but right now, he looks like Darrius Heyward-Bey. He's not playing much, drops some passes and then makes a couple fantastic catches. He's shown top end speed on a terrific crossing pass a couple games ago, but he's not consistent. As JoeyFlex5 led, let's wait to see how he performs coming out of camp next year. Hopefully, Flacco will be back on track and Breshad has more time with the jugs machine.

Edited December 24, 2016 by ravensnj

[Ravensfan23]

10 minutes ago, ravensnj said:

I was hoping Julio Jones, but right now, he looks like Darrius Heyward-Bey. He's not playing much, drops some passes and then makes a couple fantastic catches. He's shown top end speed on a terrific crossing pass a couple games ago, but he's not consistent. As JoeyFlex5 leads, let's wait to see how he performs coming out of camp next year. Hopefully, Flacco will be back on track and Breshad has more time with the jugs machine.

Darrius Heyward-Bey? Really???? Perriman basically has more production as a 4th WR for the Ravens this year than DHB had in his first 2 seasons as a starter for the Raiders. 

DHB started 25 of 26 games played in his first 2 seasons. 35recs 490yds 2TDs. He never once showed signs, flashes, moments or anything of being a #2 WR let alone a #1WR. He was targeted 40 times with 9 catches and 6 drops in this rookie year. His 2nd season he improved by being targeted 65 times with 26 catches and 3 drops. 

If you don't like Perriman just say so but don't insult the man by comparing him to Heyward-Bey I've seen many compare him to Demaryius Thomas and I think that's a fair one. I think the biggest issue Perriman has right now is confidence. I don't think there is an issue with self confidence I just think its a matter of not having those training camps to cut his teeth against guys like Jimmy everyday and not really getting that experience where he's taken over a game this year. Once he and Flacco get a chance to get on the same page for a full training camp like you metioned I think this guy is gonna make every Ravens fan happy with his play. AB and Green will have to make room for this kid because he's gonna rival the better WRs in the AFC North 

[Jonah DeVito]

Perrimans future really excites me. I think he'll be a stud. 

[jdynamite]

14 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

He seems to have a spectacular play every game. He shows traits of a #1 and looked a hell of a lot better than expected. A full training camp is going to do him wonders. He is by far the most talented WR we have ever drafted. It's a real shame that we have a guy that doesn't use him a lot. 

 

13 hours ago, robbie29 said:

I'm sorry but NO- he is not the most talented WR the Ravens have ever drafted. He's the fastest, OK. But speed means zippo when you can't catch. I think the issue has less to do with Flacco and more to do with Perriman's route running and hands.

@ Robbie if you're going to disagree with the above commenter then why not give your opinion of who is the most talented WR the team has drafted ever.  Rather than just say "no he not".   

 

[ravensnj]

2 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Darrius Heyward-Bey? Really???? Perriman basically has more production as a 4th WR for the Ravens this year than DHB had in his first 2 seasons as a starter for the Raiders. 

DHB started 25 of 26 games played in his first 2 seasons. 35recs 490yds 2TDs. He never once showed signs, flashes, moments or anything of being a #2 WR let alone a #1WR. He was targeted 40 times with 9 catches and 6 drops in this rookie year. His 2nd season he improved by being targeted 65 times with 26 catches and 3 drops. 

If you don't like Perriman just say so but don't insult the man by comparing him to Heyward-Bey I've seen many compare him to Demaryius Thomas and I think that's a fair one. I think the biggest issue Perriman has right now is confidence. I don't think there is an issue with self confidence I just think its a matter of not having those training camps to cut his teeth against guys like Jimmy everyday and not really getting that experience where he's taken over a game this year. Once he and Flacco get a chance to get on the same page for a full training camp like you metioned I think this guy is gonna make every Ravens fan happy with his play. AB and Green will have to make room for this kid because he's gonna rival the better WRs in the AFC North 

I don't hate the guy, but, I am not happy with his performance, yet. He had the dropsies in college and a few drops so far in the NFL. A few games ago, I saw where he could 've fought for the ball, but allowed the defender to get the upperhand. So my jury is out, as I expect a first round pick to come in and be effective, right away. Especially, with all the hoopla about his physical stature and blazing speed.

Edited December 24, 2016 by ravensnj

[Ravensfan23]

1 minute ago, ravensnj said:

I don't hate the guy. But, I am not happy with his performance, yet. He had the dropsies in college and a few drops so far in the NFL. A few games ago, I saw where he could 've fought for the ball, but allowed the defender to get the upperhand. So my jury is out, as I expect a first round pick to come in and be effective, right away. Especially, with all the hoopla about his physical stature and blazing speed.

I was joking saying you hated him. Perriman is a unique situation. He hasn't had developmental time and he's not 100% recovered from the knee issues. Remember he had to recover from injuries on both knees. As fast as Perriman is, i truly don't think he's at full speed right now. When the combination of the game slowing down for him and the fact that he'll be fully over the knee issues. If you actually watch him now opposed to before the injury his rookie season, he runs with a bit of a hitch. So i don't think he even reaches full stride right now. 

I think we'll see an huge jump from playing year 1 to year 2. 

[Cville-Raven]

14 hours ago, robbie29 said:

I'm sorry but NO- he is not the most talented WR the Ravens have ever drafted. He's the fastest, OK. But speed means zippo when you can't catch. I think the issue has less to do with Flacco and more to do with Perriman's route running and hands.

lol I'd really like to know who we've drafted that is a better talent at the position?

[JimmyBlack]

We still need to grab another receiver and resign Wallace before the draft.

[ravensnj]

2 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I was joking saying you hated him. Perriman is a unique situation. He hasn't had developmental time and he's not 100% recovered from the knee issues. Remember he had to recover from injuries on both knees. As fast as Perriman is, i truly don't think he's at full speed right now. When the combination of the game slowing down for him and the fact that he'll be fully over the knee issues, that's when we'll see the real Perriman. If you actually watch him now opposed to before the injury his rookie season, he runs with a bit of a hitch. So i don't think he even reaches full stride right now. 

I think we'll see an huge jump from playing year 1 to year 2. 

I really hope your right. Our Offense has been dismal since Marchibroda. 

[ravensnj]

38 minutes ago, JimmyBlack said:

We still need to grab another receiver and resign Wallace before the draft.

I've been saying Christian McCaffrey in the draft. He's going to be a great slot, in fact, anywhere on the field.  

[JoeyFlex5]

46 minutes ago, ravensnj said:

I've been saying Christian McCaffrey in the draft. He's going to be a great slot, in fact, anywhere on the field.  

hes a rb. what makes you think he just translates to slot receiver and does well in the nf?

[OUravensfan]

He hasn't offered a response but if Perriman isn't the best we've drafted I'm assuming Torrey Smith is who he thinks is better? Perriman still needs to prove he'll be better but he has showed flashes of athleticism and pure #1 acrobatic catch ability in traffic high pointing the ball tbat Smith struggled with, I think he can prove us right. If he doesn't mean Smith then I assume Mark Clayton? SURELY not Travis Taylor? 

[Cville-Raven]

6 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

 If he doesn't mean Smith then I assume Mark Clayton? SURELY not Travis Taylor? 

I think it has to be Smith. Which I just don't agree with even though Torrey was actually a very good athlete. Perriman is far more talented than the other guys we've spent firsts on.

[Ravensfan23]

2 hours ago, JimmyBlack said:

We still need to grab another receiver and resign Wallace before the draft.

Honestly I don't think they need to. With the group of TEs coming back, Pitta, Williams, Gilmore, Waller and Bolye, I think the Ravens should have a good shot at finding the best 3 maybe 4 of those guys to provide really strong 2TE sets. They can more than cover the possession chain moving aspect of the offense. 

As far as WR, I think Wallace has done more than enough to grant him an extension. Sign him to a 3yr deal and lower that 8Mil against the cap. I am more than comfortable with the combination of Perriman and Aiken handling the other outside spot opposite Wallace. Perriman should be ready to take over that starting position imo, even if he's not a true #1 yet and if not you have Aiken to help out. Not saying Aiken is #1 caliber but he's definitely good enough to keep the offense moving while guys like Wallace and Perriman make the big plays. I also think this offseason is the prefect time to develop guys like Moore, Camp and even Kenny Bell or Keenan Reynolds on the PS. 

You just can't consistently get your 4th and 5th WRs involved in the game plan and that really hurts their development. So if you bring in a veteran i'm assuming you're bringing someone in who can start opposite Wallace because otherwise Aiken is a veteran reserve. So that vet along with Wallace would take the majority of reps at WR and push Perriman, Aiken, Moore and Camp further down the depth chart. There is always veteran guys hanging out around camp time waiting to get signed by a team late. I say go into camp with Wallace and Aiken as your veteran and use the entire offseason and camp to develop Perriman, Moore, Camp, Reynolds and Bell. 

The only way I want another veteran added is if SSS decides to come back and even than I don't want him seeing as many snaps over Perriman. 

[RaineV1]

Comparing Perriman to other first round receivers from that year, he's been the 2nd best behind Cooper.

So far this season for the first round guys aside from Cooper going into this week:
Parker: 47 catches, 614 yards, 3 TDs
White: 19 catches, 187 yards, 0 TDs
Agholor: 36 catches, 365 yards, 2 TDs
Perriman: 26 catches, 405 yards, 3 TDs
Dorsett: 28 catches, 464, 2 TDs.

Perriman is out performing his peers in the first round of that year, aside from Cooper. Considering what he's been through: not having a pre-season camp, missing his rookie year, and being buried on the depth chart of an oftentimes dysfunctional offense, that's not half bad.

[ravensnj]

5 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

hes a rb. what makes you think he just translates to slot receiver and does well in the nf?

He plays all over the field, he even goes wide. He is a better athlete, faster, stronger and runs shiftier than the combination of Wes Welker and Julian Edelman.Let's compare him to Barry Sanders Heisman trophy season---- mind you these stats are only one season.

Player	All-purpose yards	Rushing yards	Receiving yards	Kickoff Return yards	Punt return yards
Christian McCaffrey	3,496 (8.5 per play)	1,847 (5.8 per rush)	540 (13.2 per reception)	1,042 (28.9 per return)	67 (4.8 per return)
Barry Sanders	3,249 (8.2 per play)	2,628 (7.6 per rush)	106 (5.6 per reception)	421 (20 per return)	94 (9.4 per return)

 

Okay, he mainly played Rb in college but, in the NFL, I along with many analyst, believe he will be better used in the slot. This guy is extremely dangerous!  No doubt a terrific player and probably the 2017 offensive rookie of the year.

Edited December 25, 2016 by ravensnj

[ravensnj]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

hes a rb. what makes you think he just translates to slot receiver and does well in the nf?

Further google him and check out Wikipedia for some family history.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, ravensnj said:

He plays all over the field, he even goes wide. He is a better athlete, faster, stronger and runs shiftier than the combination of Wes Welker and Julian Edelman.Let's compare him to Barry Sanders Heisman trophy season---- mind you these stats are only one season.

Player	All-purpose yards	Rushing yards	Receiving yards	Kickoff Return yards	Punt return yards
Christian McCaffrey	3,496 (8.5 per play)	1,847 (5.8 per rush)	540 (13.2 per reception)	1,042 (28.9 per return)	67 (4.8 per return)
Barry Sanders	3,249 (8.2 per play)	2,628 (7.6 per rush)	106 (5.6 per reception)	421 (20 per return)	94 (9.4 per return)

 

Okay, he mainly played Rb in college but, in the NFL, I along with many analyst, believe he will be better used in the slot. This guy is extremely dangerous!  No doubt a terrific player and probably the 2017 offensive rookie of the year.

 

3 hours ago, ravensnj said:

Further google him and check out Wikipedia for some family history.

not sure how yards from scrimmage in college is indicative in any way. especially for your argument, considering your calling him a slot receiver at the next level, and then use a RBs stats to back up your claims. barry sanders was a full time RB, not a slot receiver, not even close. not sure how family history would have anything to do with him becoming a RB. perrimans dad was a long time nfl receiver who was extremely refined in his playing days, yet perriman was the most raw wr taken in the first round in 2014, its irrelevant aside from athleticism just being in someones genes. 

people said the same about keenan reynolds but he was a disaster evertime he was targeted in the preseason, because he had the shifty skill set but was never used as a wr and thus was unproven and unskilled. mccaffrey is obviously a whole other monster, but he is still primarily a rb who gets flexed on occasion, and this was in college, where press coverage and complexity in zone schemes are rare. physical traits are fine and dandy and all but you gotta see a player playing wr at a high level before you can call them one, especially after they have to make the leap to the NFL. 

mccaffrey is likely a moving running back, like a darren sproles/ray rice/shane vereen type, i dont see anything that would suggest he is a full time receiver nor do i see anything to suggest that he would bring more value there than as a RB and getting the ball in his hands as much as possible. you dont take a home run hitter like mccaffrey and force him to split touches with 3 other guys because of the nature of the position, you put the ball in his hands and watch him go.

[PurpleCity5]

What some people still don't understand is that the guy is essentially a 4th option on most plays. 

Most QBs in the NFL don't look to the 3rd WR or even the 4th WR when the first play doesn't work simply because they don't have time. Perriman is on the field as the 3rd WR with Mike Wallace and Steve Smith Sr. on the field. When you add in Dennis Pitta is pretty much the 1st option on most plays. The first read on most of the plays will either be Wallace/Smith Sr. or Pitta. When the 1st read fails, most QBs go to the check down, RB/TE, which we saw a lot of vs. New England. Either that or they look towards the #2, if he has plenty of time he'll go to the #3. 

Besides, if you give Perriman more snaps you're taking someone off. Who will that be, Mike Wallace or Steve Smith Sr.? I say neither. No reason to do that unless one of them begins to break down significantly. 

I know people get annoyed when we pull out the "Well he's technically a rookie" card but that's what it is. Guy still has plenty of development left, best thing you hope for is that he capitalizes on his chances when they arrive. Also, teams respect his speed, they're not stupid and have been game-planning for him. Jets put Darrelle Revis on him for most of the game, a veteran all time great CB. Not an easy one to win.