Next Up: Ravens at Steelers, Sunday December 25 at 1630

[Tank 92]

7 hours ago, baroquenspirit said:

And if anyone thinks he was actually trying to trip a guy on national tv, in front of 50,000 live fans and refs......never mind, this one has been argued ad nauseam and no one is changing their mind. 

Like you said, no one is changing their mind at this point and whether or not he was actually trying to trip him is debatable.  But whether it was his intent to trip him or not, it's not debatable that he at the very least feigned standing in front of him to slow his progress, it's right there on video.  Maybe a one time brain fart? Who knows.  But there's really no one here thinking he's a "stand up guy", especially with the limited info they have. 

[hn68wb4]

8 hours ago, baroquenspirit said:

And if anyone thinks he was actually trying to trip a guy on national tv, in front of 50,000 live fans and refs......never mind, this one has been argued ad nauseam and no one is changing their mind. 

I suppose the alternative is to believe that a long time head coach didn't know where the field was, and did something not even rookie head coaches do. So what's more likely? I'd put my money on the more likely scenario, he saw the momentum shifting heavily in our direction and thought he could get a pass by playing dumb, so he stepped on the field allowing one of his guys to get to JJ after he slowed down and changed direction to avoid him. As already noted, if Harbaugh had done the same thing, I'd bet anything that you'd be around here whining about dirty Harbaugh and that time he cheated to stop a return TD.

Edited December 21, 2016 by hn68wb4

[ellicottraven]

12 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Bengals aren't really playing well. Not the entire game.

Both these games will come down to how the Ravens play, not Steelers and Bengals. If we play like we can, they can't beat us - we are better team.

Hmm. We just need to play like it. When was it that we performed well on the road for all 4 quarters? It's been a while now and hence the concern. The Steelers have won 5 straight and the Bengals put up a really good fight against the Steelers too and have been playing better than how they started. And we don't have a great track record of winning recently in Cincy either.

[TMC]

14 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

Not really, since Colbert took over in 2010 they've only drafted one legit running back in Bell, the only other one still in the league is Dri Archer, who has a big asterisk considering he refuses to report to the Bills, so he's technically on a roster but is not playing. "Much better" is an overstatement, we haven't drafted any RBs high in recent years like the Steelers did with Bell and we've ended up with is a lot of serviceable backs but no superstars yet, but if history is any indication then when we take RBs in the top two rounds they've always turned out well. So sure "to some extent" in recent years they've found a superstar and we haven't, so an argument can be made there, but they've also found literally nothing else whereas we've found multiple contributors in the mid rounds. Quality v. Quantity - ergo "to some extent." I'll accept giving them the slight edge based on that, but it's close, neither team has hit it out of the park overall.

Kevin Colbert took over in 2000.  He was hired as the "Director of Football Operations", which was the same as a General Manager.  The Steelers did not have a GM then.  They changed the title to GM in 2010.  Same job, same position, still ran the team.  Kevin Colbert is responsible for:

Plaxico Burress, Marvel Smith, Clark Haggans, Casey Hampton, Kendrell Bell, Kendall Simmons, Antwaan Randle El, Chris Hope, Larry Foote, Brett Keisel, Troy Polamalu, Ike Taylor, Ben Roethlisberger, Max Starks, Heath Miller, Bryant McFadden, Trai Essex, Chris Kemoeatu, Santonio Holmes, Willie Colon, Lawrence Timmons, LaMarr Woodley, Matt Spaeth, Daniel Sepulveda, William Gay, Rashard Mendenhall, Ryan Mundy, Ziggy Hood, Kraig Urbik, Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis, Maurkice Pouncey, Jason Worilds, Emmanuel Sanders, Antonio Brown, Cameron Heyward, Marcus Gilbert, Cortez Allen, David DeCastro, Sean Spence, Kelvin Beachum, Jarvis Jones, Le'veon Bell, Markus Wheaton, Vince Williams, Ryan Shazier, Stephon Tuitt, Martavis Bryant, Dan McCullers, Bud Dupree, Sammie Coates, Jesse James, Leterrius Walton, Anthony Chickillo, Artie Burns, Sean Davis, Javon Hargrave..and quite frankly, a host of stinkers too.

He also added undrafted guys like James Harrison, Ramon Foster, Alejandro Villanueva, Willie Parker, and some others.  Not really looking to get in a Colbert VS Ozzie debate, because both of them are two of the better drafting GMs in the league, but Colbert has been with the Steelers since they fired Tom Donahue after the 1999 season.

[darklight1216]

Antonio Brown should be taken seriously, but Jimmy isnt the only one capable of limiting him. Baltimore beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs on the road in the 2014-15 season and who were the cornerbacks that night? Raashan Melvin and some guy, if I recall correctly.

 

 

 

[Drew P]

3 minutes ago, darklight1216 said:

Antonio Brown should be taken seriously, but Jimmy isnt the only one capable of limiting him. Baltimore beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs on the road in the 2014-15 season and who were the cornerbacks that night? Raashan Melvin and some guy, if I recall correctly.

 

 

 

No doubt about it but that was Kubes Offense and the blocking rules now are a far cry from then.

[jboy19]

19 minutes ago, darklight1216 said:

Antonio Brown should be taken seriously, but Jimmy isnt the only one capable of limiting him. Baltimore beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs on the road in the 2014-15 season and who were the cornerbacks that night? Raashan Melvin and some guy, if I recall correctly.

 

 

 

Top 3 Corners in that game were Webb (pretty much his last year as a true CB), Melvin and Antoine Cason, I'd definitely consider Young, Wright and Powers an improvement over that trio. AB still had 9 catches (on 14 targets) for 117 yards, 0 TDs. I think an issue that people are overlooking is that historically it really takes more than AB having a good game for the Steelers to beat the Ravens. 

[rossihunter2]

4 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

Top 3 Corners in that game were Webb (pretty much his last year as a true CB), Melvin and Antoine Cason, I'd definitely consider Young, Wright and Powers an improvement over that trio. AB still had 9 catches (on 14 targets) for 117 yards, 0 TDs. I think an issue that people are overlooking is that historically it really takes more than AB having a good game for the Steelers to beat the Ravens. 

and also AB is not the kind of receiver who bothers tavon so much - he wont go up and over him and i think webby is gonna be moving towards ABs route more often than not

eli rogers is the spare guy who scares me because of how effective he's been the last few weeks out of the slot - his routes look really polished for a rookie and powers hasnt been phenomenal

if we can shut down bell we'll be fine i think - the steelers dont run the zone stretch 1 cut kind of system - bell has to be patient so all it takes is coralling him with equal patience to stop him - you almost have to play contain like with a dual threat qb against bell

[January J]

11 hours ago, baroquenspirit said:

And if anyone thinks he was actually trying to trip a guy on national tv, in front of 50,000 live fans and refs......never mind, this one has been argued ad nauseam and no one is changing their mind. 

Wasn't trying to trip him, was just trying to get Jacoby off course and to distract him just enough to get him tackled... Which is exactly what happened. Tomlin is a witty dude- he knew exactly what he was doing and knew the play was coming right his way. Anybody that buys his excuse is in denial. Had JJ stayed straight up the sideline  he wasn't getting caught, but he had to shift a step to the right giving the tackler just enough time to grab him. Not like it mattered anyway- we still took the W and got to watch JJ and tuck chow down on some chicken.

This game will come down to who makes the fewest mistakes. ( like most games do) whoever wins the turnover battle will get the W. Ben hasn't been at his best as of late and bell has been bailing him out. He will also likely be without Green. We just cannot allow them to get multiple splash plays to AB or its game over. If jimmy can play it will be a Christmas imiracle, but we can win without him. IMO if Miami wins on saturday- jimmy will do everything in his power to play- BC we will know going in that its truly do or die. If Miami loses- we know that we got a good chance at the wildcard and a tough matchup with AJ green likely back in the lineup follows- so we will play it safe and save him for that. 

We have to spread the ball around and not try to force it to Steve or Wallace. Get Aiken, perriman and waller involved. Then we can start to hit some big plays with Wallace hopefully on some slant routes ( although im sure they will be waiting for that) and flacco can move the chains with his safety blanket pitta. One play we need to try in the redzone is a fake end around to Wallace or camp- and a toss to Dixon the other way with crock or Boyle as the lead blocker. I can see them biting on the reverse easily...esp since we hit them with it last year and scored a TD with campanaro-he pulled it off last week - and they will have to respect  Wallace's speed if to him. Just a thought. Our dB's need to GO AFTER THE BALL. Drives me crazy when corners don't turn around and look for the ball- so many times I've seen easy would be interceptions turn into completions simply BC they don't turn their head. If we can score on defense even once i think we win this game. I smell a pick 6 to either weddle or tavon. Weddles got a chip on his shoulder for being snubbed.  We also need to hit Ben HARD. I wanna see suggs or jernigan rock his world and see blood and guts on the feild. Expect flacco to hit that 4k mark and tucker will break the all time record for most 50 yarders in a season with a 52 yarder right before half. I dont have a good feelin but i cant bet on my team losing. Sorry cant do it. 31-29 Ravens. Let's go fellas.

[rmcjacket23]

40 minutes ago, darklight1216 said:

Antonio Brown should be taken seriously, but Jimmy isnt the only one capable of limiting him. Baltimore beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs on the road in the 2014-15 season and who were the cornerbacks that night? Raashan Melvin and some guy, if I recall correctly.

 

 

 

True, we did win the game. He had 9 for 117 in that game though, so we certainly didn't shut him down.

As I pointed out in other areas, the key difference in that game was there was no LeVeon Bell... he hurt his knee the week before. For all intents and purposes, the Steelers were forced to be one dimensional in that game, as it would have been hard enough to run on the Ravens with Bell, let alone with whatever journeyman they sent out there (can't remember the name).

Balance is key to the Steelers offense, and they will certainly have that on Sunday. We can win even if Brown has a big game, but I don't think we can win if Bell has a big game and certainly not if they both do.

Edited December 21, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[January J]

7 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

True, we did win the game. He had 9 for 117 in that game though, so we certainly didn't shut him down.

As I pointed out in other areas, the key difference in that game was there was no LeVeon Bell... he hurt his knee the week before. For all intents and purposes, the Steelers were forced to be one dimensional in that game, as it would have been hard enough to run on the Ravens with Bell, let alone with whatever journeyman they sent out there (can't remember the name).

Balance is key to the Steelers offense, and they will certainly have that on Sunday. We can win even if Brown has a big game, but I don't think we can win if Bell has a big game and certainly not if they both do.

I agree- we've got to eliminate atleast ONE of them. Preferably Bell. AB will get his regardless and make a big play or two- but if we allow Bell to run all over us and control the clock we're done. And If bell goes off then likely AB does too- which would give us virtually no chance. So yeah- shut down Bell and we've got a decent chance. Not to mention they will have DWilliams back as well who is no slouch - so we will have our hands full. 4 quarters of disciplined football- and if we fall behind by more than 10 points its possible but I'm afraid we won't be able to get back up and rebound from that. Getting the early jump on them is key- as we did last time we faced them.

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, TMC said:

Kevin Colbert took over in 2000.  He was hired as the "Director of Football Operations", which was the same as a General Manager.  The Steelers did not have a GM then.  They changed the title to GM in 2010.  Same job, same position, still ran the team.  Kevin Colbert is responsible for:

Plaxico Burress, Marvel Smith, Clark Haggans, Casey Hampton, Kendrell Bell, Kendall Simmons, Antwaan Randle El, Chris Hope, Larry Foote, Brett Keisel, Troy Polamalu, Ike Taylor, Ben Roethlisberger, Max Starks, Heath Miller, Bryant McFadden, Trai Essex, Chris Kemoeatu, Santonio Holmes, Willie Colon, Lawrence Timmons, LaMarr Woodley, Matt Spaeth, Daniel Sepulveda, William Gay, Rashard Mendenhall, Ryan Mundy, Ziggy Hood, Kraig Urbik, Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis, Maurkice Pouncey, Jason Worilds, Emmanuel Sanders, Antonio Brown, Cameron Heyward, Marcus Gilbert, Cortez Allen, David DeCastro, Sean Spence, Kelvin Beachum, Jarvis Jones, Le'veon Bell, Markus Wheaton, Vince Williams, Ryan Shazier, Stephon Tuitt, Martavis Bryant, Dan McCullers, Bud Dupree, Sammie Coates, Jesse James, Leterrius Walton, Anthony Chickillo, Artie Burns, Sean Davis, Javon Hargrave..and quite frankly, a host of stinkers too.

He also added undrafted guys like James Harrison, Ramon Foster, Alejandro Villanueva, Willie Parker, and some others.  Not really looking to get in a Colbert VS Ozzie debate, because both of them are two of the better drafting GMs in the league, but Colbert has been with the Steelers since they fired Tom Donahue after the 1999 season.

Many of the players you named are some real stinkers...

[Drew P]

On 12/18/2016 at 3:53 PM, usmccharles said:

Cant wait for this game, just worried about which Ravens team shows up

 

Hopefully not the one that played on National TV against the Pats.

[baroquenspirit]

18 hours ago, redrum52 said:

You gotta admit that looked suspect... had Harbaugh done that during a Antonio Brown return I'd love to see what Steelers fans would be saying.

Yes, on the face of it, I understand the response. Of course fans on both sides are going to see this through a homer lens. Steeler fans would have said exactly what Raven's fans have said. But time has gone by now. We can take a deep breath and be objective. Tomlin's explanation was entirely reasonable...he was watching the big screen, saw the play was coming up on him and planted his foot to jump out of the way. It would have been entirely ridiculous for him to try and trip Jones. Had it actually happened, the ramifications would have been serious, financially painful and harmful for Tomlin's role as an NFL head coach. He just wouldn't have intentionally done that. He just wouldn't. So to throw this out (as the poster did) as an example of Tomlin's ethical standards is ridiculous. Look, Harbaugh struggles with sportsmanship. He isn't the best responder when his team loses. In the aftermath of a game he sometimes blames the refs. But guess what, that doesn't make him an evil or unethical person. It bugs me when he does it (mostly because it empowers the conspiracy theories of fans), but I don't judge his whole coaching career by that character struggle. I battle with it myself. I would never accuse Harbaugh of intentionally risking his players health. It's just a bogus charge from someone who, quite frankly, just doesn't get. Tomlin does not intentionally risk his players health. He is a players coach. 

[baroquenspirit]

7 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Many of the players you named are some real stinkers...

Many? Really? 

[baroquenspirit]

8 hours ago, January J said:

Wasn't trying to trip him, was just trying to get Jacoby off course and to distract him just enough to get him tackled... Which is exactly what happened. Tomlin is a witty dude- he knew exactly what he was doing and knew the play was coming right his way. Anybody that buys his excuse is in denial. Had JJ stayed straight up the sideline  he wasn't getting caught, but he had to shift a step to the right giving the tackler just enough time to grab him. Not like it mattered anyway- we still took the W and got to watch JJ and tuck chow down on some chicken.

This game will come down to who makes the fewest mistakes. ( like most games do) whoever wins the turnover battle will get the W. Ben hasn't been at his best as of late and bell has been bailing him out. He will also likely be without Green. We just cannot allow them to get multiple splash plays to AB or its game over. If jimmy can play it will be a Christmas imiracle, but we can win without him. IMO if Miami wins on saturday- jimmy will do everything in his power to play- BC we will know going in that its truly do or die. If Miami loses- we know that we got a good chance at the wildcard and a tough matchup with AJ green likely back in the lineup follows- so we will play it safe and save him for that. 

We have to spread the ball around and not try to force it to Steve or Wallace. Get Aiken, perriman and waller involved. Then we can start to hit some big plays with Wallace hopefully on some slant routes ( although im sure they will be waiting for that) and flacco can move the chains with his safety blanket pitta. One play we need to try in the redzone is a fake end around to Wallace or camp- and a toss to Dixon the other way with crock or Boyle as the lead blocker. I can see them biting on the reverse easily...esp since we hit them with it last year and scored a TD with campanaro-he pulled it off last week - and they will have to respect  Wallace's speed if to him. Just a thought. Our dB's need to GO AFTER THE BALL. Drives me crazy when corners don't turn around and look for the ball- so many times I've seen easy would be interceptions turn into completions simply BC they don't turn their head. If we can score on defense even once i think we win this game. I smell a pick 6 to either weddle or tavon. Weddles got a chip on his shoulder for being snubbed.  We also need to hit Ben HARD. I wanna see suggs or jernigan rock his world and see blood and guts on the feild. Expect flacco to hit that 4k mark and tucker will break the all time record for most 50 yarders in a season with a 52 yarder right before half. I dont have a good feelin but i cant bet on my team losing. Sorry cant do it. 31-29 Ravens. Let's go fellas.

I've made my case on the Tomlin incident in other posts. Your statements about the Steelers are pretty close to the take I gave in my post about the game. The Steelers Defense has genuinely improved as the season has progressed. I think they have to keep the Raven run game in check. If they do that, it might be Joe, rather than Ben, throwing the ints. Also, since both QB's have big arms and try to get the ball down field, I imagine a DPI call or missed call will have a big impact on at least one or two drives. Not because there is a conspiracy, but because it is the current nature of the NFL.

[baroquenspirit]

12 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

Like you said, no one is changing their mind at this point and whether or not he was actually trying to trip him is debatable.  But whether it was his intent to trip him or not, it's not debatable that he at the very least feigned standing in front of him to slow his progress, it's right there on video.  Maybe a one time brain fart? Who knows.  But there's really no one here thinking he's a "stand up guy", especially with the limited info they have. 

To bad. I have "football hate" for the Raven's and their staff. But I don't fall into the silly trap of thinking someone is a bad person in his life because he is a Raven. Mike Tomlin has a long history of demonstrating that he is a "stand up guy." 

[baroquenspirit]

12 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

Naw B!  Can't let that go brah!  If anyone thinks that he "wasn't trying" to trip a guy on national tv, in front of 50,000 live fans and refs....never mind!  

Seriously though...in reference to that stunt he pulled against Jacoby....Tomlin said that he watches the games on the big screen cause it's better for him to see. What?  So, you're the H.C. and you're on the sideline but you can see the game better on the screen?  C'mon now!

The interesting thing to me is that since that game...that night...Tomlin has not even come close to watching the games on the screen as he mentioned.  He always seem to be looking on the field itself.  Dude got caught...tried to excuse it away with a serious looking face at the presser but it doesn't fly!

 

Not games. Kick returns. And he still does it. 

[Tank 92]

9 minutes ago, baroquenspirit said:

Yes, on the face of it, I understand the response. Of course fans on both sides are going to see this through a homer lens. Steeler fans would have said exactly what Raven's fans have said. But time has gone by now. We can take a deep breath and be objective. Tomlin's explanation was entirely reasonable...he was watching the big screen, saw the play was coming up on him and planted his foot to jump out of the way. It would have been entirely ridiculous for him to try and trip Jones. Had it actually happened, the ramifications would have been serious, financially painful and harmful for Tomlin's role as an NFL head coach. He just wouldn't have intentionally done that. He just wouldn't. So to throw this out (as the poster did) as an example of Tomlin's ethical standards is ridiculous. Look, Harbaugh struggles with sportsmanship. He isn't the best responder when his team loses. In the aftermath of a game he sometimes blames the refs. But guess what, that doesn't make him an evil or unethical person. It bugs me when he does it (mostly because it empowers the conspiracy theories of fans), but I don't judge his whole coaching career by that character struggle. I battle with it myself. I would never accuse Harbaugh of intentionally risking his players health. It's just a bogus charge from someone who, quite frankly, just doesn't get. Tomlin does not intentionally risk his players health. He is a players coach. 

Oh my..... so you compare a guy deliberately affecting a play on the field to another who questions an officials calls? In what universe are those two things comparable? A "character struggle"?  "Sportsmanship"?  Gimme a break.

The clear evidence is on video for the world to see, so no matter the explaination any reasonable person can see exactly what happened. "Planted his foot to jump out of the way."  And then laughed about it. Be real. 

Don't think you could say it defines the guy's life, but does something that he would do anything like that, even once. 

[K-Dog]

Is there anyone on our roster now who have never played in the Ravens / steelers battle ?

[K-Dog]

43 minutes ago, baroquenspirit said:

Yes, on the face of it, I understand the response. Of course fans on both sides are going to see this through a homer lens. Steeler fans would have said exactly what Raven's fans have said. But time has gone by now. 

Actually it lives on.....
At the stadium, there is a little animation on the big screens that talks about fans going out on the field.  The animation shows a little guy with a steelers logo standing on the sideline, and another little guy running past with a Ravens logo, and the little steeler guy jumps out of the way.  It is comical really.

I wonder if I can find it for you...

 

[ThatsMyJoeTerback]

9 minutes ago, K-Dog said:

Actually it lives on.....
At the stadium, there is a little animation on the big screens that talks about fans going out on the field.  The animation shows a little guy with a steelers logo standing on the sideline, and another little guy running past with a Ravens logo, and the little steeler guy jumps out of the way.  It is comical really.

I wonder if I can find it for you...

 

Found it.

http://prod.www.ravens.clubs.nfl.com/news/article-1/The-Caw-Mike-Tomlin-Playfully-Jabbed-In-New-Ravens-Fan-Credo/5f4cbe45-6305-41f9-9402-6b21b55ea8d8

It's supposed to be Mike Tomlin, according to the article.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

12 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

Hmm. We just need to play like it. When was it that we performed well on the road for all 4 quarters? It's been a while now and hence the concern. The Steelers have won 5 straight and the Bengals put up a really good fight against the Steelers too and have been playing better than how they started. And we don't have a great track record of winning recently in Cincy either.

You call the way Cincy played in the 2nd half of that game a really good fight? I call it laying down with or without "Perfect" Burfict. That was disgraceful. I think they led at halftime 20-6 and failed to score in the 2nd half. They lost 27-20, right? It was downright pitiful! 

[K-Dog]

42 minutes ago, ThatsMyJoeTerback said:

Found it.

http://prod.www.ravens.clubs.nfl.com/news/article-1/The-Caw-Mike-Tomlin-Playfully-Jabbed-In-New-Ravens-Fan-Credo/5f4cbe45-6305-41f9-9402-6b21b55ea8d8

It's supposed to be Mike Tomlin, according to the article.

Yup. That is the one.

Thank you for finding it for me.  I tried but was unsuccessful. 

[omar586]

is it me or flacco is horrible in moving in pocket? i mean he pulls  a bledsoe and stays back where the passrush finds him, like freaking statue , he doesn't move up the pocket like regular QBs, lol

[sibelius]

1 hour ago, omar586 said:

is it me or flacco is horrible in moving in pocket? i mean he pulls  a bledsoe and stays back where the passrush finds him, like freaking statue , he doesn't move up the pocket like regular QBs, lol

 

Probably more indicative of the fact that the weak links on the line are C and RG. 

[codizzle]

3 hours ago, K-Dog said:

Is there anyone on our roster now who have never played in the Ravens / steelers battle ?

Well we just played them a few weeks ago so I'd say the chances are pretty slim 

[omar586]

3 minutes ago, codizzle said:

Well we just played them a few weeks ago so I'd say the chances are pretty slim 

lol

[baroquenspirit]

3 hours ago, ThatsMyJoeTerback said:

Found it.

http://prod.www.ravens.clubs.nfl.com/news/article-1/The-Caw-Mike-Tomlin-Playfully-Jabbed-In-New-Ravens-Fan-Credo/5f4cbe45-6305-41f9-9402-6b21b55ea8d8

It's supposed to be Mike Tomlin, according to the article.

Funny. I have seen a ton of great memes using pictures of the event. I can laugh at them. I get why people would have fun with it. 

[allblackraven]

12 minutes ago, codizzle said:

Well we just played them a few weeks ago so I'd say the chances are pretty slim 

Correa might have been inactive for that game, I can't remember.