Next Up: Ravens at Steelers, Sunday December 25 at 1630

[VermontRaven]

Jeremy Fowler ESPN Staff Writer 

 

Ladarius Green's concussion history in San Diego won't be a factor in his evaluation this week, coach Mike Tomlin said. "We'll follow the protocol," Tomlin said. "Whatever they say, we do."

 

Translation:  I don't care about my players health.  I only care about winning.  I will do my best to influence the medical people to clear him to play, despite all the scientific evidence that says it's probably not a good idea.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, Ravens4Real said:

Everywhere else outside of WR?! Man, there's a bunch of people up in Pittsburgh that would argue that to the death. Even as a Ravens fan, I could argue more positions for them.

Inside linebacker and maybe RB. 

I would say we are significantly better at drafting both lines and pass rushers. Neither of us is very good at drafting the secondary.

[hn68wb4]

2 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

Everywhere else outside of WR?! Man, there's a bunch of people up in Pittsburgh that would argue that to the death. Even as a Ravens fan, I could argue more positions for them.

Anyone that'd argue that their GM is better than Ozzie is simply not thinking straight. Ok, make the argument, what other positions outside WR and Oline do they draft better than/equal to Ozzie?

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, VermontRaven said:

Jeremy Fowler ESPN Staff Writer 

 

Ladarius Green's concussion history in San Diego won't be a factor in his evaluation this week, coach Mike Tomlin said. "We'll follow the protocol," Tomlin said. "Whatever they say, we do."

 

Translation:  I don't care about my players health.  I only care about winning.  I will do my best to influence the medical people to clear him to play, despite all the scientific evidence that says it's probably not a good idea.

Well, in fairness, that's not even remotely what he's saying. 

Plus, if he actually did think that way, I wouldn't blame him one bit. There's trained medical personnel that know a lot more about this stuff than HC's do, and they're as qualified as it gets right now to make these determinations. That's not a HC's responsibility.

Plus, Tomlin can influence his own medical staff all he wants, but Green still has to clear an independent neurologists assessment before he would be green lighted for game action. 

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

Anyone that'd argue that their GM is better than Ozzie is simply not thinking straight. Ok, make the argument, what other positions outside WR and Oline do they draft better than/equal to Ozzie?

I wouldn't agree that they draft better Olineman either. 

Inside linebacker I think they're a bit better than us at, and RB to a certain extent.

[Ravens4Real]

8 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

Anyone that'd argue that their GM is better than Ozzie is simply not thinking straight. Ok, make the argument, what other positions outside WR and Oline do they draft better than/equal to Ozzie?

Well you initially didn't include Oline. I'd take theirs right now over ours. I believe most/if not all of theirs were drafted.

May get flack for this but they are better at drafting RB's than us. They have had some very solid ones and Bell is already better than anyone we ever had (sorry Ryan Rice). I'm too young to know if Ozzie was around to draft Jamal Lewis. How about at QB? It's laughable if anyone says the Ravens are better at drafting QB's than them. Mostly because they have had many more years to hit on great ones.

Can't really argue anything on the D side. Defensive line, we have both drafted very well in that area. Williams, Ngata and co. Are comparable to a lot of theirs in Heyward and Tuitt ( who's going to be a stud if not already).

Im just arguing objectively for some of these. There's no way a team makes the super bowl 3 times in the past 11 years and don't have a good draft room.

(This is more in terms of recent years) 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Ravens4Real

[Purple_City39]

6 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

Anyone that'd argue that their GM is better than Ozzie is simply not thinking straight. Ok, make the argument, what other positions outside WR and Oline do they draft better than/equal to Ozzie?

Even o-line is very close imo.  I'd give them OLB actually over ILB, at least over the last decade.  That may be it.

[Purple_City39]

3 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

Well you initially didn't include Oline. I'd take theirs right now over ours. I believe most/if not all of theirs were drafted.

May get flack for this but they are better at drafting RB's than us. They have had some very solid ones and Bell is already better than anyone we ever had (sorry Ryan Rice). I'm too young to know if Ozzie was around to draft Jamal Lewis. How about at QB? It's laughable if anyone says the Ravens are better at drafting QB's than them. Mostly because they have had many more years to hit on great ones.

Can't really argue anything on the D side. Defensive line, we have both drafted very well in that area. Williams, Ngata and co. Are comparable to a lot of theirs in Heyward and Tuitt ( who's going to be a stud if not already). And 

Im just arguing objectively for some of these. There's no way a team makes the super bowl 3 times in the past 11 years and don't have a good draft room.

(This is more in terms of recent years) 

Yes, Ozzie drafted Jamal Lewis.  Ozzie has been around since the Ravens came to town, so he also picked up Priest Holmes from the undrafted pool as well (since we're going that far back.  Outside of Bell, what Steelers RB has been truly that dynamic since, let's say, 2000?  Parker and Mendenhall has good 2 or 3 year stints each, but neither was better than Rice (Ray Rice btw).  Jamal's legacy can be argued also as one of the few RBs in NFL history to rush for 2k AND was once the single game rushing leader prior to Peterson taking that from him.

[hn68wb4]

21 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

Well you initially didn't include Oline. I'd take theirs right now over ours. I believe most/if not all of theirs were drafted.

May get flack for this but they are better at drafting RB's than us. They have had some very solid ones and Bell is already better than anyone we ever had (sorry Ryan Rice). I'm too young to know if Ozzie was around to draft Jamal Lewis. How about at QB? It's laughable if anyone says the Ravens are better at drafting QB's than them. Mostly because they have had many more years to hit on great ones.

Can't really argue anything on the D side. Defensive line, we have both drafted very well in that area. Williams, Ngata and co. Are comparable to a lot of theirs in Heyward and Tuitt ( who's going to be a stud if not already).

Im just arguing objectively for some of these. There's no way a team makes the super bowl 3 times in the past 11 years and don't have a good draft room.

(This is more in terms of recent years) 

I did initially include oline, reread what I said...

I don't particularly think either team is great at drafting RBs, we've both missed in that department many times, but we've never whiffed on one as high as Mendenhall. I'd be willing to give this one another pass.

I don't think QB should be in their favor at all, we're only talking current FO, it wouldn't be fair to award them the spoils of the previous FOs, namely Roethlisberger. They haven't hit on any QBs they've taken whereas Ozzie's got Flacco and Taylor both starting QBs right now. Sure with Roethlisberger they haven't had to take any very high but Landry has been abysmal.

Edited December 20, 2016 by hn68wb4

[hn68wb4]

15 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I wouldn't agree that they draft better Olineman either. 

Inside linebacker I think they're a bit better than us at, and RB to a certain extent.

I'm not so sure about ILB, we don't draft that position much, but when we do we generally don't completely miss, obviously we missed on Brown but I don't think anyone would argue with Ozzie's record on ILBs and how many gems he's found at the position, Orr just being the latest in an impressively long line. The Steelers on the other hand are starting two former first rounders, and outside of that don't have much there under the current regime - and really the current GM doesn't deserve credit for taking Timmons since he was drafted way back in '07. And personally, I'd take Mosley over Shazier any day of the week, Shazier's injury issues aside Mosley is much more consistent.

RB is an iffy one for me, both have had our fair share of misses, but I guess Bell could be considered better than anyone we've had for years.

[Ravens4Real]

3 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

I didn't initially include oline, reread what I said...

I don't particularly think either team is great at drafting RBs, we've both missed in that department many times, but we've never whiffed on one as high as Mendenhall. I'd be willing to give this one another pass.

I don't think QB should be in their favor at all, we're only talking current FO, it wouldn't be fair to award them the spoils of the previous FOs. They haven't hit on any QBs they've taken whereas Ozzie's got Flacco and Taylor both starting QBs right now. Sure with Roethlisberger they haven't had to take any very high but Landry has been abysmal.

Technically, Colbert wasn't the GM yet for the Steelers when they drafted Big Ben. 

But either way, I'd take what Big Ben has done over Flacco and Smith any day of the week.

[hn68wb4]

3 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

Technically, Colbert wasn't the GM yet for the Steelers when they drafted Big Ben. 

But either way, I'd take what Big Ben has done over Flacco and Smith any day of the week.

I think anyone would, but that's not really the argument here. We're talking about the success of drafting of the current regime as compared to ours, and they don't get to claim any QB hits in the draft right now since Roethlisberger was well before Colbert's time as GM.

Edited December 20, 2016 by hn68wb4

[Ravens4Real]

Just now, hn68wb4 said:

I think anyone would, but that's not really the argument here. We're talking about the success of drafting of the current regime as compared to our, and they don't get to claim any QB hits in the draft right now since Roethlisberger was well before Colbert's time as GM.

Well if we can only take the current regime, it's not truly a fair argument to the Steelers since Colbert has only been around since 2010. Obviously Ozzie has had many years prior to that to hit on good players. If we took the argument since 2010, I'd argue some in their favor.

But it's pointless, it goes back to you saying that WR is the only position they draft better than us. I don't believe that to be true. But that's a matter of opinion. We can move on.

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, The Mom Gene said:

I don't, you guys took that upon yourselves.  Nobody said 27th overall throughout the entire year

Well, you kinda do need us to explain it because I think you're missing the point, or you're arguing an indefensible idea.

With Jimmy, the Ravens are probably the NFL's top ranked defense this year. I don't really feel like totaling up yardage, but in terms of points with him (averaging for time missed during games), the Ravens are allowing 15.2 points per game, which is easily tops in the NFL. Without him, I believe it's 27 and that's 29th in the NFL.

If we look at the yardage without him, the Ravens are likely dead last in the NFL.

No one said anything about season rankings. We were talking about literally isolating the games that he did not play in or the portions of games he did not play in. 

[Underdogsontop!]

I hope we beat the steelers! It's going to be a tough game. If we did.....What if by some chance steelers lose to the Browns? Lol

[Moderator 3]

	Baltimore Ravens (@Ravens)
12/20/16, 3:27 PM From our family to yours. pic.twitter.com/NOMoE5Tn8x

 

[The Mom Gene]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Well, you kinda do need us to explain it because I think you're missing the point, or you're arguing an indefensible idea.

With Jimmy, the Ravens are probably the NFL's top ranked defense this year. I don't really feel like totaling up yardage, but in terms of points with him (averaging for time missed during games), the Ravens are allowing 15.2 points per game, which is easily tops in the NFL. Without him, I believe it's 27 and that's 29th in the NFL.

If we look at the yardage without him, the Ravens are likely dead last in the NFL.

No one said anything about season rankings. We were talking about literally isolating the games that he did not play in or the portions of games he did not play in. 

That was kind of my point...  if we go back a gazillion pages, nowhere was an overall season total ranking mentioned.... but OK,  I get your point.

[The Mom Gene]

10 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

	Baltimore Ravens (@Ravens)
12/20/16, 3:27 PM From our family to yours. pic.twitter.com/NOMoE5Tn8x

 

THAT IS AWESOME

[jimmypowder]

We will beat the Steelers. It's the Bengals I'm worried about. That game will be their Super Bowl. 

[robbie29]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I wouldn't agree that they draft better Olineman either. 

Inside linebacker I think they're a bit better than us at, and RB to a certain extent.

At running back to a certain extent? Sorry but in recent years the Steelers have drafted much better than the Ravens at RB. We haven't drafted a legitimately good back since Rice. Dixon has promise but he's nowhere near Le'Veon Bell's level yet. 

[Deflated Football]

2 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

	Baltimore Ravens (@Ravens)
12/20/16, 3:27 PM From our family to yours. pic.twitter.com/NOMoE5Tn8x

 

That's even better than the Monday night commercial against the Pats. 

[DomMcRaven]

1 hour ago, jimmypowder said:

We will beat the Steelers. It's the Bengals I'm worried about. That game will be their Super Bowl. 

If only I had that confidence.

[hn68wb4]

33 minutes ago, robbie29 said:

At running back to a certain extent? Sorry but in recent years the Steelers have drafted much better than the Ravens at RB. We haven't drafted a legitimately good back since Rice. Dixon has promise but he's nowhere near Le'Veon Bell's level yet. 

Not really, since Colbert took over in 2010 they've only drafted one legit running back in Bell, the only other one still in the league is Dri Archer, who has a big asterisk considering he refuses to report to the Bills, so he's technically on a roster but is not playing. "Much better" is an overstatement, we haven't drafted any RBs high in recent years like the Steelers did with Bell and we've ended up with is a lot of serviceable backs but no superstars yet, but if history is any indication then when we take RBs in the top two rounds they've always turned out well. So sure "to some extent" in recent years they've found a superstar and we haven't, so an argument can be made there, but they've also found literally nothing else whereas we've found multiple contributors in the mid rounds. Quality v. Quantity - ergo "to some extent." I'll accept giving them the slight edge based on that, but it's close, neither team has hit it out of the park overall.

Edited December 20, 2016 by hn68wb4

[DomMcRaven]

Not so fun fact: we're winless on the road when we wear our white jerseys. Smh...

[Tank 92]

4 minutes ago, DomMcRaven said:

Not so fun fact: we're winless on the road when we wear our white jerseys. Smh...

This year, you mean.

Won the SB wearing white.  

[DomMcRaven]

Just now, Tank 92 said:

This year, you mean.

Won the SB wearing white.  

Darn it, yes! I'll hold this L for omitting the most important part of the fact. 

[ellicottraven]

I just can't see us winning twice in 2 weeks both times on the road against division opponents that are playing well right now.

[gooftroop]

6 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, in fairness, that's not even remotely what he's saying. 

Plus, if he actually did think that way, I wouldn't blame him one bit. There's trained medical personnel that know a lot more about this stuff than HC's do, and they're as qualified as it gets right now to make these determinations. That's not a HC's responsibility.

Plus, Tomlin can influence his own medical staff all he wants, but Green still has to clear an independent neurologists assessment before he would be green lighted for game action. 

Oh, I think we'll see Green this weekend. Just like I was certain Andrew Luck would be ruled out when the Colts played them. Seems to work that way, when it comes to those Steelers.

[allblackraven]

21 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I just can't see us winning twice in 2 weeks both times on the road against division opponents that are playing well right now.

Bengals aren't really playing well. Not the entire game.

Both these games will come down to how the Ravens play, not Steelers and Bengals. If we play like we can, they can't beat us - we are better team.

[BmoreBird22]

4 hours ago, The Mom Gene said:

That was kind of my point...  if we go back a gazillion pages, nowhere was an overall season total ranking mentioned.... but OK,  I get your point.

I think people more just want to point out the impact he has on the defense.