Week 15: The Good, The Bad and the Ugly Comment/Vent/Rant Eagles Version!

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

So you picked 50 because you realized that if you picked 40 (which could easily be considered a long drive as well) that your narrative wouldn't work?

Got it. That's all I needed to know.

Next time, just shoot for the moon. Say that it must be 80 yards to be a long drive or something even more absurd to make your argument look more viable. I mean if you're going to begin, continue, and end with shear subjectivity, max out on it. 

40 was not option since they had 0 scoring drives of around 40 yards.

they had 1 from around 49 and another was 16.

that is why i said close to 50 because you know 49 is close to 50.....

[RavensDieHard21]

1 hour ago, trevorsteadman said:

This defense looks like a high school defense without Jimmy Smith even in the run game... This reminds me of the tweet I saw on this site before the game... The team drops from the #1 defense to the #27 defense without Jimmy Smith. It held true yesterday when the defense looked mediocre against an Eagles team that in my opinion has way under average talent at offensive skill positions. I respect Ryan Matthews but still that game shouldn't of been that close at all.  

 

I don't think jimmy had a bit to do with it. It literally was a lack of execution and coaching. The Eagles I can promise did nothing different from the tape of their games all year. They run the ball a lot and throw screens to stop the pass rushers. Then they mix in Ertz with middle of the field throws. The defense has to adjust to the screens and all of a sudden they started getting gauged and playing 3 wide up front with huge holes opening up as they tried to contain the screens. This was the one game we wouldn't have needed jimmy because they have 0 vertical game 

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

But you gave me permission to manipulate didn't you? So I manipulated that down to 59 yards, as you requested.

And then I manipulated down your baseless "50 yards is a long drive" argument because you never even started to think it through or come up with what an actual "long drive" in the NFL should even look like. 

If you at least had a better argument, manipulating yours wouldn't be this simple. But it is, as I've shown several times now.

59 yards is a fact.
you did not manipulate it down to that.

stop talking none sense.

you tried to manipulate other with your 60-70 yard crap but the fact remains that 59 does not fall in the 60-70 range.
you did not manipulate a damm thing , you where just talking out of your butt saying that.

also you where talking about scoring drives and not drives in general.
unless you can proof the eagles had a scoring drive of 40 yards then stop talking none sense.

i used close to 50 yards because the the eagles had a 49 yard scoring drive.
in case you dont know 50 is very close to 49.

fact remains that you where talking about 60-70 yards scoring drives.
i am simply addressing what you said.

if you forgot i can quote it for you.



 

 

 

[trevorsteadman]

8 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I don't think jimmy had a bit to do with it. It literally was a lack of execution and coaching. The Eagles I can promise did nothing different from the tape of their games all year. They run the ball a lot and throw screens to stop the pass rushers. Then they mix in Ertz with middle of the field throws. The defense has to adjust to the screens and all of a sudden they started getting gauged and playing 3 wide up front with huge holes opening up as they tried to contain the screens. This was the one game we wouldn't have needed jimmy because they have 0 vertical game 

I would think so as well. But every game after Jimmy Smith goes down opposing receivers are magically open every play and the run defense completely dies. It makes no sense to me either just looking at stats. The team goes from the #1 defense and #6 against the pass to the #27 defense and #32 against the pass. That big of a gap is not a coincidence.

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

40 was not option since they had 0 scoring drives of around 40 yards.

they had 1 from around 49 and another was 16.

that is why i said close to 50 because you know 49 is close to 50.....

LOL it doesn't matter to me if its a scoring drive or less. What, if a team drives 70 yards down to the 10 yard line and misses a FG then that's a good defensive performance? Of course not.

I care about long drives period. I care about letting a team go 40-50 yards down the field. Whether that team decides to pass up a 50 yard FG on a windy day and try to convert 2 yards instead is up to them... that's not a reflection of the defense, its a reflection of the weather or the lack of confidence in their kicker. 

One of the main reasons why our defense doesn't look like a bunch of fools after yesterday is because they came up with a couple of critical very shortage stops. One was at the 34 yard line in the 4th quarter, when the Eagles passed up a 51 yard FG to make it a 7 point game and went for it on 4th and 2. We stopped them. 

The second was obviously the last play of the game, where we stopped a 2 point conversion after giving up a long drive for a TD that involved basically no running plays.

Can whine and complain about turnovers all day long. They scored a lot more points off of bad defense than they did off of Joe turning the ball over. 

[rmw10]

21 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

There's no question its both. But the far more disappointing aspect of that play isn't the fact that Joe locked onto a receiver and threw a pick. Its that between John, Marty and Joe, not one of them had the wherewith all or brains to stop that play from happening and do the smart thing, which was to run the football.

If we get to 2nd and long or 3rd down and Joe does that same thing, sure, its all on Joe at that point, because that's a spot you probably should throw the ball. That field position and that time and circumstance of the game isn't one of them, and one of those three guys has to know that.

 

It was a failure all around.  To further your point, we actually used a timeout before that disastrous play.  I can see in the flow of the game where maybe you take the play call and let it ride so you don't have to burn a timeout and cause confusion.  However, they had plenty of time to figure out what they were going to do.

[The Mom Gene]

This....  Just this.....  Fire Cam, Fire Caldwell, Fire Kubiak, Fire Trestman, and now Fire Morninhweg.  Did I miss anyone???

 

I just hope we go after more Offensive linemen this next draft.....  It's just where we are right now....  If you watched the Dallas game last night, you'll see what a GREAT O-LINE looks like.  That kid had a pocket that he could stand in, step up in, and wait in for about 8 seconds.

[The Mom Gene]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

It was a failure all around.  To further your point, we actually used a timeout before that disastrous play.  I can see in the flow of the game where maybe you take the play call and let it ride so you don't have to burn a timeout and cause confusion.  However, they had plenty of time to figure out what they were going to do.

And all of them admitted it.  That's what we want right???  Truth is, THEY GOT GREEDY AND WANTED INSTANT GRATIFICATION.  A TOUCHDOWN NOW.

[rmw10]

Just now, The Mom Gene said:

And all of them admitted it.  That's what we want right???  Truth is, THEY GOT GREEDY AND WANTED INSTANT GRATIFICATION.  A TOUCHDOWN NOW.

I think it was an awful decision to pass even before the interception, but it certainly looks a lot worse in hindsight since we actually saw the ending result.  But yes, I agree.  All the way around, on all 3 guys, they got greedy.  It was just the wrong time to be greedy.  I don't mind aggressiveness, but in no way shape or form was that a good time for it.

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL it doesn't matter to me if its a scoring drive or less. What, if a team drives 70 yards down to the 10 yard line and misses a FG then that's a good defensive performance? Of course not.

I care about long drives period. I care about letting a team go 40-50 yards down the field. Whether that team decides to pass up a 50 yard FG on a windy day and try to convert 2 yards instead is up to them... that's not a reflection of the defense, its a reflection of the weather or the lack of confidence in their kicker. 

One of the main reasons why our defense doesn't look like a bunch of fools after yesterday is because they came up with a couple of critical very shortage stops. One was at the 34 yard line in the 4th quarter, when the Eagles passed up a 51 yard FG to make it a 7 point game and went for it on 4th and 2. We stopped them. 

The second was obviously the last play of the game, where we stopped a 2 point conversion after giving up a long drive for a TD that involved basically no running plays.

Can whine and complain about turnovers all day long. They scored a lot more points off of bad defense than they did off of Joe turning the ball over. 

 

4 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Was just saving the defense the embarrassment of another 60-70 yard scoring drive that the defense would have given up as they get manhandled up and down the field.

your words not mine

its however noted that it does not matter to you what you say yourself.

it you dont care about what you say yourself then why should anyone else care about what you say.

 

[The Mom Gene]

Just now, rmw10 said:

I think it was an awful decision to pass even before the interception, but it certainly looks a lot worse in hindsight since we actually saw the ending result.  But yes, I agree.  All the way around, on all 3 guys, they got greedy.  It was just the wrong time to be greedy.  I don't mind aggressiveness, but in no way shape or form was that a good time for it.

Oh YEAH, I agree also....  The play should have been changed at the line.  Joe should have audibled a run call.

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, The Mom Gene said:

Oh YEAH, I agree also....  The play should have been changed at the line.  Joe should have audibled a run call.

or just throw it away if the play is not there?

no harm in throwing it out of the back of the endzone if nobody is open.

TO was the worst possible outcome.
Only thing worse would be Flacco landing on IR making the tackle or getting sacked by holding on to the pass.

[ellicottraven]

3 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

Oh YEAH, I agree also....  The play should have been changed at the line.  Joe should have audibled a run call.

For a 9 yr veteran who prides himself on winning and not on personal stats, it was hugely disappointing. Two situations almost killed our season yesterday both perpetuated by Joe. One a fumble close to our goal line that resulted in 8 points for the Eagles and an INT at the 11 yd line that should have resulted in either 7 or at least a guaranteed 3 making our lead insurmountable. One clearly was Joe not getting rid of the ball on time and the O-line's abysmal blocking but the other was totally a boneheaded play by Joe and an absurd call by Marty and approved by John. I'm glad we eked out a W but disappointed that playing like this won't get us to the playoffs by beating 2 Division rivals at their home fields no less.

[The Mom Gene]

Just now, ellicottraven said:

For a 9 yr veteran who prides himself on winning and not on personal stats, it was hugely disappointing. Two situations almost killed our season yesterday both perpetuated by Joe. One a fumble close to our goal line that resulted in 8 points for the Eagles and an INT at the 11 yd line that should have resulted in either 7 or at least a guaranteed 3 making our lead insurmountable. One clearly was Joe not getting rid of the ball on time and the O-line's abysmal blocking but the other was totally a boneheaded play by Joe and an absurd call by Marty and approved by John. I'm glad we eked out a W but disappointed that playing like this won't get us to the playoffs by beating 2 Division rivals at their home fields no less.

Yup...  He said it during his presser....  He didn't think.  He said he thought "a third TD pass for the day".  So he was thinking stats.  And I agree with Tru.  He should have looked at the play as it unfolded and thrown it out the back of the endzone. He had two  more chances at it after that...  I watched the Dallas/Washington game last night.  A GREAT O-Line looks like what they have in Dallas.  They gave Prescott all day long...  That pocket was so clean you could eat off of it.  The sad part is that Zuttah is constantly owned by the opposing team.  And when I hear people say that Joe should just throw it away, you'd be surprised how often he'd have to.  He very rarely has a good pocket.  So, yeah, the O-line has been less than abysmal

[rmcjacket23]

8 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

 

your words not mine

its however noted that it does not matter to you what you say yourself.

it you dont care about what you say yourself then why should anyone else care about what you say.

 

And your words were that I'm allowed manipulate all I want, so am I allowed to or are you taking that back now too? I'll let you think about it and you let me know.

Its up to you and you alone whether YOU care about what I say. You'll have to attempt to formulate some kind of decision on your own on that one. I mean its not like anybody is sitting there saying "hey you know who probably has wisdom about the Ravens... that Tru11 guy". 

I'm just here to point out lapses in intelligent/common sense and blatant hypocrisy. Care about it, don't care about, doesn't matter. That's on you.

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

or just throw it away if the play is not there?

no harm in throwing it out of the back of the endzone if nobody is open.

TO was the worst possible outcome.
Only thing worse would be Flacco landing on IR making the tackle or getting sacked by holding on to the pass.

Well there is harm... it stops the clock, which is one of the last things we want happening there. That's why people are advocating to run the ball, because it doesn't matter if you really score a TD or not. You run the ball 2-3 times and kick a FG, and you're up by 13 with like 4 minutes left.

Keep the clock running and protect the ball. That's the only thing you need to do there.

[The Mom Gene]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

Well there is harm... it stops the clock, which is one of the last things we want happening there. That's why people are advocating to run the ball, because it doesn't matter if you really score a TD or not. You run the ball 2-3 times and kick a FG, and you're up by 13 with like 4 minutes left.

Keep the clock running and protect the ball. That's the only thing you need to do there.

The interception stopped the clock too....   for us.

You had two more shots at running it in there..... or at the very least a FG... 

Not saying, just sayin.....  a run play should have been audibled.

 

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, The Mom Gene said:

The interception stopped the clock too....   for us.

You had two more shots at running it in there..... or at the very least a FG... 

Not saying, just sayin.....  a run play should have been audibled.

 

Right, and you can argue that's on Joe as much as it is John or Marty. Which means you can make a case that the entire play is on Joe. He didn't audible to a proper play for that scenario in the game, he locked onto his primary, threw into an impossible window, and clearly didn't see the linebacker baiting him.

[Tru11]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well there is harm... it stops the clock, which is one of the last things we want happening there. That's why people are advocating to run the ball, because it doesn't matter if you really score a TD or not. You run the ball 2-3 times and kick a FG, and you're up by 13 with like 4 minutes left.

Keep the clock running and protect the ball. That's the only thing you need to do there.

stopping the clock is not worse then a TO, stop making a fool out of yourself

[RavensDieHard21]

32 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

This....  Just this.....  Fire Cam, Fire Caldwell, Fire Kubiak, Fire Trestman, and now Fire Morninhweg.  Did I miss anyone???

 

I just hope we go after more Offensive linemen this next draft.....  It's just where we are right now....  If you watched the Dallas game last night, you'll see what a GREAT O-LINE looks like.  That kid had a pocket that he could stand in, step up in, and wait in for about 8 seconds.

Let's put it into perspective though. Cameron did not ideally fit Flacco's strength. Caldwell was decent. Kubiak was a gift from God. Trestman and Marty are the same coordinator.  

Our offensive line while intact is not even remotely bad. They're not bulldozers in the run game, but both our Tackles are great pass protectors and Yanda is elite. Zuttah and Ducasse are decent, but not great, which makes me hopeful we will draft a bully at center or RG early this year. 

[Tru11]

16 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And your words were that I'm allowed manipulate all I want, so am I allowed to or are you taking that back now too? I'll let you think about it and you let me know.

Its up to you and you alone whether YOU care about what I say. You'll have to attempt to formulate some kind of decision on your own on that one. I mean its not like anybody is sitting there saying "hey you know who probably has wisdom about the Ravens... that Tru11 guy". 

I'm just here to point out lapses in intelligent/common sense and blatant hypocrisy. Care about it, don't care about, doesn't matter. That's on you.

You can do whatever you want.

fact remains you where talking about 60-70 yard scoring drives.

fact remains my replies use that as the basis.

nothing more and nothing less.

if all of a sudden you want to talk about all drives and make it 59-70 rather then 60-70 then you are free to do as you please.

just proofs to me you where talking out of your butt from the start.

so either stick to what you said or change its up.

[ravensdfan]

44 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

And all of them admitted it.  That's what we want right???  Truth is, THEY GOT GREEDY AND WANTED INSTANT GRATIFICATION.  A TOUCHDOWN NOW.

Yes it is. But before this week we wanted them to stop settling for FGs. Now we want them to settle for FGs. Just sayin'.

It was an aggressive playcall. That's what everyone wanted. Be aggressive. I don't know that you call it greedy. Everyone screamed about the offense not playing conservative and put the game away. A FG would have made it a 2 score game but a TD? That put it pretty much out of reach.

I disagree with the playcall - just to clarify - but there is no pleasing people. If we run and kick the FG and lose by 2 pts - they'd just be here complaining how we settled for the FG instead of being aggressive.

[rmcjacket23]

30 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

stopping the clock is not worse then a TO, stop making a fool out of yourself

Which was said by absolutely nobody. Couldn't even vaguely be construed as anybody saying anything even close to that. Reading comprehension really is a lost art isn't it? Are you even trying at this point or are you just all aboard the troll train this morning?

And the most ironic post of the day comment goes to...

18 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

just proofs to me you where talking out of your butt from the start.

so either stick to what you said or change its up.

"no harm in throwing it out of the back of the endzone if nobody is open."

And yet, there very clearly is significant in harm to just throwing it out of the back of the endzone, as common sense has already shown. You're actually in one of the rare circumstances where taking a sack is better than throwing it away in that spot.

Is it the biggest harm? No, but we weren't discussing what was worse. We were discussing harm. It harms the football team to throw an incomplete pass there, and in more ways than just your standard incompletion.

Try harder.

Edited December 19, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[Edgar]

45 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

The interception stopped the clock too....   for us.

You had two more shots at running it in there..... or at the very least a FG... 

Not saying, just sayin.....  a run play should have been audibled.

 

Audible? Didn't we just come out of a time out?

Besides, why would Joe audible? He clearly thought it was the right call at the line. Never mind he somehow inexplicably missed a linebacker from the snap.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, Edgar said:

Audible? Didn't we just come out of a time out?

Besides, why would Joe audible? He clearly thought it was the right call at the line. Never mind he somehow inexplicably missed a linebacker from the snap.

Good point. I mean I guess IF Joe had gotten to the line and noticed like an 8 man box that he would then audible to a pass, but its baffling that, out of a timeout, he and Marty agreed that a pass was the right call AND when they got to the line Joe didn't change to a run.

[The Mom Gene]

54 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Right, and you can argue that's on Joe as much as it is John or Marty. Which means you can make a case that the entire play is on Joe. He didn't audible to a proper play for that scenario in the game, he locked onto his primary, threw into an impossible window, and clearly didn't see the linebacker baiting him.

Why are you arguing with me about it...  That was my entire point...  for those blaming only Joe.  THEY GOT GREEDY and wanted the TD right there and then.

 

[The Mom Gene]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Good point. I mean I guess IF Joe had gotten to the line and noticed like an 8 man box that he would then audible to a pass, but its baffling that, out of a timeout, he and Marty agreed that a pass was the right call AND when they got to the line Joe didn't change to a run.

Any idiot would have known it should have been a run call....  Just that is enough to change the play.

[January J]

19 hours ago, cobrajet said:

You may have a point. I do wish we were tied with the Steelers so that if we beat them we could rest against Cincy and not have to worry about that game. We certainly could beat the Steelers and lose to Cincy. Unfortunately, we can't get our hopes up too high if we win next week.

Can't believe cinci self destructed like that. They had that game in the bag and in the second half the steelers just kept chipping away at that lead. I knew they were gonna blow it- and had the Steelers won and we lost ( which is what it was  to look like) we all know that meant season over. If those idiots would've held on we could've went into next week without even having to THINK about week 17. Would've been win and we're in, a much more comfortable feeling. But when is anything ever easy for us?

19 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

For weeks we criticized the offense for going conservative with a lead.  Now we want someone's head because they didn't.  Yes, it was boneheaded, but it sure wasn't conservative.

Exactly. Fans are so wishy washy and they only react to the outcome with the benefit of hindsight. Had that been a TD you wouldn't have heard 1 peep about not running the ball there. That could've been the nail in the coffin, which we've all been looking for. Defense was probably expecting a run- so I understand the thinking behind it. Still was obviously the wrong decision ( esp in hindsight) based on the amount of time remaining- and how well we were running the ball. Joe just HAS to protect the ball there- and that is completely on him. If its not a wide open throw- chuck it out the endzone and live to play another down- or better yet just sit down lol! Had that been returned for a pick 6 we really could've been screwed. But yeah I don't understand blaming harbaugh there- and yet he still took responsibility iike a good coach should.

18 hours ago, ravensfan2430 said:

So he admitted he is an awful coach. Great

Riiiiight. 

He took responsibility even when it wasn't on him. You should be able to trust your qb to take care of the ball in that situation. 

17 hours ago, drillem said:

I haven't listened to the Harbaugh presser, but I bet he says we just got to play better, etc etc etc.  Nothing ever changes.  Ironically, we got outplayed and still won this one.  Luck of the Irish, I guess.   Penalties, game management errors, terrible play calling, execution issues R US.  

And he's supposed to say what? We've got to play worse? 

5 hours ago, OUravensfan said:

It's unfortunate Flacco made that one mistake at the end of the game, had he not, we're all singing a different tune as we're looking at a nice 30 point performance with minimal TOP, let's just all be happy we're still alive, while not preferable everyone agrees ugly wins > pretty losses.

Thats the way I see it. Really sucks too BC we could've had some momentum and positive energy going into Pittsburgh. By the way the board looks if I didn't know the score I'd be sure we lost! In the end we got the job done, the offense did well, Tucker did what Tucker does best ( and became the all time leader in feild goal %- along with tying record for most 50+ yard FGs) and the defense made the play when it counted the most. Doesn't matter who you put the interception on ...marty- harbs- Joe...you put the victory on the team.

 

The game wasn't shown in my area- and im almost glad- BC just watching the ticker  at the bottom of the screen alone almost gave me a heart attack. One second I see it and it has us at 27-17 with the ball inside the 15 with about 6:00 left...so I'm like cool we got this...just run it a couple times , milk the clock and punch it in with dix or west or at worst let tucker put the game out of reach . next thing I know I look up and the scores the same except philly has the ball and I'm like what the heckff. I then become glued to the ticker and am watching the clock run down and I'm thinking no way we could let this happen again. All of a sudden there's a minute and some change left and Philly has the ball and I just knew they were going to score. Whatdoyaknow with 4 secs left they punch it in. I also knew right away they were going to go for two. So I'm sitting here in agony not knowing what's going on while simultaneously watching the Bengals self destruct. The tickers not updating and I'm sitting there thinking about what I'm going to do during the  off season thinking its over and all of a sudden I see the word kickoff but the score was still the same- so without knowing what happened I'm  thinking either A) the score hasnt updated yet and we lost. B.. we somehow miraculously blocked or they missed the PAT, or most likely C) they went for it and failed. Obviously i was thinking the worst and that it was "A"...but I then finally saw the word " final" and let out the biggest exhale you could possibly imagine. Unfortunately  I still couldn't feel good about it due to the Bengals screwing us, and us winning in that fashion- but it definitely beat the alternative. And Denver losing made me feel a bit  better too. If only cinci didn't self destruct just like they did in the playoffs last year then next week  would be do or die and would have taken a lot of pressure off of our players- BC you know regardless they will still know in the back of their minds we have to beat cinci even if we pull out Pittsburgh. They can say they're only taking it one game at a time but inevitably it will effect them subconsciously. 

 Anyway a wildcard berth is still not out of the picture- we all just have to become the biggest bills fans this Saturday. Not worried about denver- they are dead in the water. But if Miami makes it in before us the way we manhandled them I will be literally SICK.

* question- I wasn't able to watch the game so how did campanaro do aside from the big run on offense? Was he back there for punts and kickoffs?

Edited December 19, 2016 by January J

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, The Mom Gene said:

Why are you arguing with me about it...  That was my entire point...  for those blaming only Joe.  THEY GOT GREEDY and wanted the TD right there and then.

 

I mean cool I guess? I mean what's exactly your point... that Joe shouldn't be SOLELY blamed? OK, I guess your point is proven then?

Its not like he comes out of this looking better because other coaches on the team were as big of idiots as he was at that moment. There's no solace in being an equal idiot.

[The Mom Gene]

32 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

Yes it is. But before this week we wanted them to stop settling for FGs. Now we want them to settle for FGs. Just sayin'.

It was an aggressive playcall. That's what everyone wanted. Be aggressive. I don't know that you call it greedy. Everyone screamed about the offense not playing conservative and put the game away. A FG would have made it a 2 score game but a TD? That put it pretty much out of reach.

I disagree with the playcall - just to clarify - but there is no pleasing people. If we run and kick the FG and lose by 2 pts - they'd just be here complaining how we settled for the FG instead of being aggressive.

Yup... and I agree with that as well.....  and when I said "that's what we want"...  I meant that they took the blame.  All 3 of them did... and people have been screaming for that for years....