[News] Late For Work 12/15: Buy Or Sell? Ravens Will Win Out And Make Playoffs

[Ugly Ball]

7 hours ago, RowdyMan52 said:

I think we are in a bind if Joe don't step up and take charge.. As we have seen time and time again a lack of urgency has been a problem all  year long. When will we make a change that will take this offensive unit to the next level I'm burnt out on excuses to many times we let games get away the main problem I feel is we play down to other teams and not to our full potential.. Raven for Life!! I expect the best for the remaining games..

This is probably why SSS is having a moment at practice !
This guy comes back from a blown up Achilles. One of the hardest injuries for a receiver to come back from, and that after having played for 16 seasons already ! Then to see, no sense of offensive urgency in the final minutes of the Pats game. He's watching his last chance of getting a ring slowly slip away meanwhile, no sense of urgency Joe, is blowing long passes...
He has every right to be angry !
Get your act together Joe...
You're making the big buck$, it's time to show us why they paid you !

[gammaman]

Out Coached, period!

[metalraven]

Flacco: "That's not enough." Wow. Thanks for the insight there, Captain Hindsight. If you need to run more, how about changing the play at the line? You'd think after 9 years this guy can read a defense consistently.

For example, on that safety, you could clearing see the Pats d line shift to the strong side. What does Flacco do? Runs the play that was called from the huddle, right into the Pats D.

Honestly, though. I don't think he cares all that much. Whatever. Go Ravens

[metalraven]

  8 hours ago, Flacco4President said:

Joe is saying we need to run the ball based on what he is seeing. Why are we not doing it then? He is on the field and controlling the offense. Does he not have the ability to audible after 9 years? Do we really only go onto the field with only passing options available? We have an outstanding left tackle, a pro bowl full back and arguably the best guard in the game playing on the left side. Run left.

I don't believe we can chalk all of this up to penalties and being out of position. We ran 4 times in the first half - there weren't so many penalties that we couldn't try more than 4 times.

True, but we're also not very effective running the ball this year either.

3.7 YPC on the year. That's near the bottom in the NFL.

It's no different than 3.7 yard check downs. Heck, 3.7 YPC is good enough to keep a defense honest. 3.7 x 3 is 11.1 yards gained.

[bioLarzen]

The importance of running the ball more has been mentioned all along - nothiong's happened. The importance of cutting down on penalties was made clear - nothing's happened. The need to speed up the O's game has been made clear time and again - nothing's happened.

At this point it seems painfully obvious that the Dolphins game was an aberration, and much more the product pf the Dolphion's impotent game than our success - every other game we saw a dishearteningly inefficient O apparently unable to make any improvements as the season's been developing.

The question is kinda automatic: what are we hoping for? What hasn't worked for 12 out of 13 games will suddenly and miraculously start working in game #14? That all the obvious mistakes the offense's coaching has been doing all along, will suddenly disappear? That Joe Flacco will, after well more than a year, suddenly have a sensible game against a good opponent - like he used to in ye olden days, when he apparently still cared about winning? That the O which seems to be unable to mut up more than 16-18 points on any, slightly decent D will somehow figure out how to score more, 3 months into the season?

I say winning 1 out of the remaining game should be regarded as the normal expectation. anything more is a plus, losing out would be less surprising than winning out.
But hey, it's the NFL, every week is a new story. So, we'll see...

[metalraven]

I see a lot of people on here saying Flacco doesn't know how to read defenses, but he finished with 71% completion 325yds 2TD's and 92.1 QBR. I mean John Gruden was (obnoxiously) flabbergasted by the defensive scheme so it couldn't have been a cake walk for Flacco and he still put up those numbers. Not to mention the countless drops or flubs by his receivers (Wallace). So my question is: was that just luck on his part, or maybe he was reading the defense well and we just have mediocre weapons who only win occasionally in man-to-man and subpar coaching/game-planning?

On the topic of calling audibles and "taking command of the offense", how does everybody so confidently know that it is Flacco's deficiency and not due to helicopter coaching by Harbaugh/Marty with a "stick to the gameplan we gave you Joe" type deal? In other words, is it because Flacco doesn't know how to/isn't good at it or is it because he is being restricted? I don't know, I don't think anyone but Flacco and the FO know, but this is something I have been asking myself for a while -- maybe there's a way to tell. I'd argue, however, given Harbaugh's coaching style, and how Marty reacted when Flacco called him out (he should do it more often), that Flacco has been and is being stifled/micromanaged when it comes to plays. Also there is evidence to support that on the field: when do we see Flacco picking apart defenses and getting into a rhythm? When he goes NO HUDDLE, it's what he did in college and in the first few years of his career. In the hurry up, he's in the driver's seat or at the very least has the final decision making ability and logistically cannot be vetoed by Marty and Harbs.

Anyway just food for thought, Go Ravens!

It damn well should have been 71%, because the majority of them were short, check downs. Unless I'm mistake, one pass play to Juice went for BIG yards, and then there was the bomb to Perriman. The 2 TDs came off of those ST turnovers. Flacco did JACK SQUAT all game up until that point. So please stop with the misleading numbers already.

[metalraven]

The importance of running the ball more has been mentioned all along - nothiong's happened. The importance of cutting down on penalties was made clear - nothing's happened. The need to speed up the O's game has been made clear time and again - nothing's happened.

At this point it seems painfully obvious that the Dolphins game was an aberration, and much more the product pf the Dolphion's impotent game than our success - every other game we saw a dishearteningly inefficient O apparently unable to make any improvements as the season's been developing.

The question is kinda automatic: what are we hoping for? What hasn't worked for 12 out of 13 games will suddenly and miraculously start working in game #14? That all the obvious mistakes the offense's coaching has been doing all along, will suddenly disappear? That Joe Flacco will, after well more than a year, suddenly have a sensible game against a good opponent - like he used to in ye olden days, when he apparently still cared about winning? That the O which seems to be unable to mut up more than 16-18 points on any, slightly decent D will somehow figure out how to score more, 3 months into the season?

I say winning 1 out of the remaining game should be regarded as the normal expectation. anything more is a plus, losing out would be less surprising than winning out.
But hey, it's the NFL, every week is a new story. So, we'll see...

Spot on, man. They are who they are.

[KidNme]

I have little confidence we can win our remaining 3 games. 2 of them are on the road and we've proven that it doesn't matter if a team is 3-10 or 10-3, we can lose to the worst of them. By how many points, is a moot point, it still goes down as a loss. If we can win these 3 on added heart or urgency, I don't want to hear it because they get paid to play with heart and urgency, every game.

[metalraven]

I have little confidence we can win our remaining 3 games. 2 of them are on the road and we've proven that it doesn't matter if a team is 3-10 or 10-3, we can lose to the worst of them. By how many points, is a moot point, it still goes down as a loss. If we can win these 3 on added heart or urgency, I don't want to hear it because they get paid to play with heart and urgency, every game.

I'm less concerned about Pitt than I am the other teams remaining. It's a weird team, and they have been for a long time now.

[RavensBaltimore]

The importance of running the ball more has been mentioned all along - nothiong's happened. The importance of cutting down on penalties was made clear - nothing's happened. The need to speed up the O's game has been made clear time and again - nothing's happened.

At this point it seems painfully obvious that the Dolphins game was an aberration, and much more the product pf the Dolphion's impotent game than our success - every other game we saw a dishearteningly inefficient O apparently unable to make any improvements as the season's been developing.

The question is kinda automatic: what are we hoping for? What hasn't worked for 12 out of 13 games will suddenly and miraculously start working in game #14? That all the obvious mistakes the offense's coaching has been doing all along, will suddenly disappear? That Joe Flacco will, after well more than a year, suddenly have a sensible game against a good opponent - like he used to in ye olden days, when he apparently still cared about winning? That the O which seems to be unable to mut up more than 16-18 points on any, slightly decent D will somehow figure out how to score more, 3 months into the season?

I say winning 1 out of the remaining game should be regarded as the normal expectation. anything more is a plus, losing out would be less surprising than winning out.
But hey, it's the NFL, every week is a new story. So, we'll see...

I don't think the Dolphins game was an aberration. You're overlooking a lot of factors. Since the bye, our line has been better and healthier, SSS is healthier, Perriman is starting to develop into a weapon, and Dixon is making plays. On Monday, we just got outschemed and failed to make adjustments. The offense hasn't scored consistently, but they have been moving the ball much more consistently. We have had very few 3-and-outs recently, which is a major improvement from the beginning of the season. With a healthier, more aggressive offense, I think the offense is capable of playing well against anyone. The biggest question is if our coaches can make adjustments faster than they did in NE. Remember, the Dolphins game was the first one where it looked like our offense had an identity, so the coaching staff is still getting used to the adjustments other teams are going to make against us, and the pats are the best in the league at scheming for teams.

[Militant X 1]

6 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And I'm sure Joe wants more from his receivers, also.

Its a two way street, not a one way street.

If this was in reference to Aiken, Perriman or Wallace, it'd be cool but we're talking about SSS here not some scrub.  

[Ravens_Flock]

We need a better OC, we need to run more, we need a fully healthy O-line, etc. etc. etc.

All those things are true. Yet one constant over the last near-decade, has been the QB. Let's not sugar coat things, even though I know there are still some after all these years who insist it's everything and everyone ELSE'S fault, not Flacco's. But let's be honest, and real here. Joe Flacco has shown SOME improvement from his rookie year over time, but not nearly enough. Yes, he had an amazing post-season run in 2012, with a lot of help from Lady Luck (he should have been intercepted at least 2-3 times, and in fact was INT once in DEN but the player landed out of bounds).

But Joe Flacco has not looked or played worth his big money contract since signing it. Period. He had a blip on the radar under Kubiak, but even then, many of the same issues that have plagued him since his rookie year, resurfaced to haunt us then. Such as his unstoppable penchant to chuck up-for-grabs passes into multiple coverage, such as he did, with no real need to, in that 2014 NE playoff game. Flacco has never been consistent, and never will be. That is the reality. Joe is Joe. He's not "elite", and he's not "garbage", he's just Joe.

So with all the other issues and problems that we need to perpetually need to fix on offense every year, let us not forget, that as long as Flacco is our starting QB, SOME of those issues are going to remain, because some of them will always be because of him. Period.

[TheConquerorWorm]

We need a better OC, we need to run more, we need a fully healthy O-line, etc. etc. etc.

All those things are true. Yet one constant over the last near-decade, has been the QB. Let's not sugar coat things, even though I know there are still some after all these years who insist it's everything and everyone ELSE'S fault, not Flacco's. But let's be honest, and real here. Joe Flacco has shown SOME improvement from his rookie year over time, but not nearly enough. Yes, he had an amazing post-season run in 2012, with a lot of help from Lady Luck (he should have been intercepted at least 2-3 times, and in fact was INT once in DEN but the player landed out of bounds).

But Joe Flacco has not looked or played worth his big money contract since signing it. Period. He had a blip on the radar under Kubiak, but even then, many of the same issues that have plagued him since his rookie year, resurfaced to haunt us then. Such as his unstoppable penchant to chuck up-for-grabs passes into multiple coverage, such as he did, with no real need to, in that 2014 NE playoff game. Flacco has never been consistent, and never will be. That is the reality. Joe is Joe. He's not "elite", and he's not "garbage", he's just Joe.

So with all the other issues and problems that we need to perpetually need to fix on offense every year, let us not forget, that as long as Flacco is our starting QB, SOME of those issues are going to remain, because some of them will always be because of him. Period.

With the exception of HOF QBs like Brady & Ben, that's every team. Cam Newton has done zero in 6 years beyond last year (mainly do to a top defense). Stafford & Ryan put up fantasy numbers but haven't done anything to win in January. Aaron Rodgers has been horrible in the play-offs since his run in 2010. Drew Brees - nothing since 2011 except for great fantasy stats. Eli, Luck & Rivers...nothing since their one year run. Joe is what he is. But he can win. This year, he led the game winning score against Oakland (twice). He led the game winning score against the Giants. He led the game winning score against the Skins, etc, etc. No, he's not perfect and yes, he makes mistakes but when the game is on the line, he can win. Just like every other QB in the league.

[TheConquerorWorm]

  6 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well I mean its definitely not ALL on Joe. I mean you've got film of receivers not gaining any separation whatsoever and not making any effort to make a play on the ball on numerous occasions. Those issues aren't a QB issue.

He's probably the primary reason at this point, but he's certainly not alone.

In the NFL there's no such thing as separation, only separation you get is from a busted coverage. How many times Thursday night did you see Brady throw the ball with the corner or safety all over them? The touchdown pass when he zipped between 2 defenders come to mind, with about 20 more passes along with that. You throw your WR open, it's the NFL not college. 

You've obviously never seen any game with Antonio Brown, Odell Beckham, Jarvis Landry, Cole Beasley or Jordy Nelson.....Top WR get open, period - they are not great because their QBs "throw them open" - if that's the case then Ryan Tannehill should be in the Hall of Fame.

[law215]

Considering how inconsistent the Ravens have played, they are fortunate to even be in the playoff discussion. The Ravens have 3 major issues.

First, they have no identity on offense. They play like a team in preseason mode just trying plays without a game plan or the ability to adjust. They do not focus on the run which you should only do if you have a very good QB. Joe is an average that lacks accuracy and ability to read coverages. He will have a great game then a terrible game. That’s been him for 9 years. Another Offensive coordinator will not change that.

The second issue is they don’t play smart football. They have a top 5 defense and a bottom tier offense. Yet they pass ball 70 percent of the time even when the RB are averaging 4-5 yards per carry. Harbs in-game decisions cost them a games against the Skins and Raiders. If they won one of those games, they would be in good shape for the playoff run.

Last, OZ and Harbs has had some bad drafts and contract decisions. For example, Steve emphasizes the need for pass rushers and OZ pass on Noah Spence, to get Correa (an ILB) who can’t outplay Orr to get on the field. Why keep Campanero at all if you going to waste money on Hester? Maybe o-line or CB depth would have been better. Why not start Perriman to develop him instead of feeding Smith who playing his last year. They overpay Webb and J Smith who are inconsistent either due to play or injury. Yet, never have enough for young studs like McPhee, KO, and most likely Brandon Williams. Cut Brooks, who looked like he was improving during preseason, then bring in bum a safety to play special team.

Steve needs to shake things up.. I sell. Too many other teams win 10 wins and Steelers easier schedule means Ravens come up short.

[Halshayeji]

14 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

True, but we're also not very effective running the ball this year either.

3.7 YPC on the year. That's near the bottom in the NFL.

Yeah coz were so effective passing it lol

[Halshayeji]

5 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

The importance of running the ball more has been mentioned all along - nothiong's happened. The importance of cutting down on penalties was made clear - nothing's happened. The need to speed up the O's game has been made clear time and again - nothing's happened.

At this point it seems painfully obvious that the Dolphins game was an aberration, and much more the product pf the Dolphion's impotent game than our success - every other game we saw a dishearteningly inefficient O apparently unable to make any improvements as the season's been developing.

The question is kinda automatic: what are we hoping for? What hasn't worked for 12 out of 13 games will suddenly and miraculously start working in game #14? That all the obvious mistakes the offense's coaching has been doing all along, will suddenly disappear? That Joe Flacco will, after well more than a year, suddenly have a sensible game against a good opponent - like he used to in ye olden days, when he apparently still cared about winning? That the O which seems to be unable to mut up more than 16-18 points on any, slightly decent D will somehow figure out how to score more, 3 months into the season?

I say winning 1 out of the remaining game should be regarded as the normal expectation. anything more is a plus, losing out would be less surprising than winning out.
But hey, it's the NFL, every week is a new story. So, we'll see...

Brutal, harsh, disgusting to hear but objective and accurate! 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Halshayeji

[Rav'n Maniac]

We are a team on playoff life support right now with the crash cart standing close by. We are all just standing around the waiting room dreading the doctor to come out and say those inevitable words that he did all he could.

Nothing like being too dramatic, huh. lol

[RaRaRavens]

12 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

The importance of running the ball more has been mentioned all along - nothiong's happened. The importance of cutting down on penalties was made clear - nothing's happened. The need to speed up the O's game has been made clear time and again - nothing's happened.

At this point it seems painfully obvious that the Dolphins game was an aberration, and much more the product pf the Dolphion's impotent game than our success - every other game we saw a dishearteningly inefficient O apparently unable to make any improvements as the season's been developing.

The question is kinda automatic: what are we hoping for? What hasn't worked for 12 out of 13 games will suddenly and miraculously start working in game #14? That all the obvious mistakes the offense's coaching has been doing all along, will suddenly disappear? That Joe Flacco will, after well more than a year, suddenly have a sensible game against a good opponent - like he used to in ye olden days, when he apparently still cared about winning? That the O which seems to be unable to mut up more than 16-18 points on any, slightly decent D will somehow figure out how to score more, 3 months into the season?

I say winning 1 out of the remaining game should be regarded as the normal expectation. anything more is a plus, losing out would be less surprising than winning out.
But hey, it's the NFL, every week is a new story. So, we'll see...

Amen, brother! Good to see some fellow fans being realistic for a change. Surprised you have not been downvoted to oblivion, though. Usually people on these boards prefer to live in a pink fantasy world.

 

I completely agree with the Dolphins game being a fluke for the offense. We manage to squeeze out one truly dominant performance every year. That's usually it. And it's funny to see people being like "I don't think Dolphins game was an aberration...". WHAT? Like, are these guys for real?! For 11 games before that, and the next game immediately after that, our offense showed absolute zero signs of productivity and explosiveness. What on earth gives these people any reason to believe that we will be scoring more than 2 TDs a game, let alone winning anyone by a blowout anytime soon is beyond me.

Edited December 16, 2016 by RaRaRavens
Grammar

[J.O.14]

The importance of running the ball more has been mentioned all along - nothiong's happened. The importance of cutting down on penalties was made clear - nothing's happened. The need to speed up the O's game has been made clear time and again - nothing's happened.

At this point it seems painfully obvious that the Dolphins game was an aberration, and much more the product pf the Dolphion's impotent game than our success - every other game we saw a dishearteningly inefficient O apparently unable to make any improvements as the season's been developing.

The question is kinda automatic: what are we hoping for? What hasn't worked for 12 out of 13 games will suddenly and miraculously start working in game #14? That all the obvious mistakes the offense's coaching has been doing all along, will suddenly disappear? That Joe Flacco will, after well more than a year, suddenly have a sensible game against a good opponent - like he used to in ye olden days, when he apparently still cared about winning? That the O which seems to be unable to mut up more than 16-18 points on any, slightly decent D will somehow figure out how to score more, 3 months into the season?

I say winning 1 out of the remaining game should be regarded as the normal expectation. anything more is a plus, losing out would be less surprising than winning out.
But hey, it's the NFL, every week is a new story. So, we'll see...

Sometimes the truth hurts, but this is 100% truth. Honestly, we have never really had an offense that goes along with our defense. Recently (exception of 2014) we have seemed like we think we can just spread it out and chuck it everywhere. 2013, 2015, and 2016 have all been that way. All 3 could end in us not making the playoffs. Flacco isn't that type of QB. We all know he needs a run game to be effective. I'm tired of hearing the coaches blow smoke and say that we have all these weapons and could be a dominate offense.

We need an identity on offense, and to be honest it's not throwing the football. We need to get back to running the ball, so we can mix it up. After this season, we need to bring in a new offensive staff, with a run oriented background. Start from scratch, couldn't be any worse than we are now.

[rmcjacket23]

13 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

If this was in reference to Aiken, Perriman or Wallace, it'd be cool but we're talking about SSS here not some scrub.  

Steve Smith isn't above reproach or criticism. He too could play better.

[Militant X 1]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Steve Smith isn't above reproach or criticism. He too could play better.

No he's not!  However, out of all the receivers on the roster....who is always going hard and giving it 100% on every single play?

[EdTheMythicalOne]

I hate to say this about my home team and the only NFL team I've supported, but I am selling this for a number of reasons.

1) Jimmy Smith's health. He's been up and down all season and when he's out, the Ravens pass defense becomes inept.

2) The play calling. I can literally call the offensive plays of the Ravens before they snap the ball. If I can guess this correctly without studying film like mad, I am sure other teams DC's can.

3) The Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde offense and defense. The team just goes into comas on offense and defense for halves at a time.

4) Stupid mistakes, poor clock management. How many dumb penalties, how many blown timeouts, how many issues with taking too much time to get to the line and call a play with time running out at the end of a game?

This team could easily have double digit wins if not for some of the stupidity shown by the players and coaching staff this season and that is what is so frustrating. The team has enough talent to win.

[Utah_Raven]

Sell. There's no way we beat pittsburgh and Cinci on the road. Not gonna happen.

[mearzunkies]

I hate to say this about my home team and the only NFL team I've supported, but I am selling this for a number of reasons.

1) Jimmy Smith's health. He's been up and down all season and when he's out, the Ravens pass defense becomes inept.

2) The play calling. I can literally call the offensive plays of the Ravens before they snap the ball. If I can guess this correctly without studying film like mad, I am sure other teams DC's can.

3) The Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde offense and defense. The team just goes into comas on offense and defense for halves at a time.

4) Stupid mistakes, poor clock management. How many dumb penalties, how many blown timeouts, how many issues with taking too much time to get to the line and call a play with time running out at the end of a game?

This team could easily have double digit wins if not for some of the stupidity shown by the players and coaching staff this season and that is what is so frustrating. The team has enough talent to win.

Well said. Seems to me not enough discipline on the coaching staff and that flows down to the players. I think they need a wake up call.

[stampedehero]

Our season future looks questionable because we do not have Ray Lewis out there. Four years seems like a decade ago.

[eze17]

Our season future looks questionable because we do not have Ray Lewis out there. Four years seems like a decade ago.

??? Really? The only reason we've ever won anything is because of one man? Did you, like, drink fifty-two shots before posting this?

[Swift 1]

On 12/15/2016 at 10:44 AM, whobilly said:

This team is more than just a few players short. If it's not the Browns, Jags, or other mediocre teams we show what we are. That's mediocre.

How badly did the Steelers and Bengals beat us?

 

[rmcjacket23]

On 12/16/2016 at 10:41 AM, Militant X 1 said:

No he's not!  However, out of all the receivers on the roster....who is always going hard and giving it 100% on every single play?

None of them would be the answer to that question.

That's a cliche, not a real thing.

[ellicottraven]

The head must say to all of us that the Ravens will not make the playoffs because they could lose 2 of the next 3 games but at least 1 for certain. But, our heart wants us to believe that they can win all 3 remaining games. More often than not, the head always wins, but this time I'm rooting for my heart to win. Going by everything that's happened this season and Flacco playing 1 great game out of several, I don't seriously see us beating both the Bengals (with Green at their home) and the Steelers at theirs in consecutive games because one such win can leave them emotionally drained. But, strange things happen in football and us making the playoffs is going to feel strange as heck.