[News] Late For Work 12/14: 5 Things To Know About Devin Hester Release; Ray Lewis Visits Trump Tower

[ibleedpurpleandblack]

  1 hour ago, Minionhunter said:

  2 hours ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

  2 hours ago, MadStorkSociety said:

Thought the same thing. Four guys all at the first down marker. We have speedsters, one of them should be heading for the endzone corner.

Yet so many want to blame Joe. Team sport!

Yes, everyone even supposedly unbiased national reporters still blame Joe for poor offensive coordinator game plans. I swear the game plan was MM making a statement that he was in charge and not Joe. All the coordinator changes has got to be killing Joe, no consistency and stability. Harbs is still paying for not Firing Trestman at the end of last year. Harbs MUST be Savage this year and gut the entire offensive coaching system and get in someone who can fix both Joe and the line (Bobby might be the only safe guy, but still when you have everyone stopping short of the sticks, you would think that he should be coaching the guys up to get beyone that and not on the same parallel line); and then they need to stay for multiple years.

So when its poor mechanics and erratic accuracy (which it mostly was on Monday night), you can't blame coaches. There's just no logic behind it.

And for the millionth time, the reason why receivers can't just "run to the sticks" and catch a pass is because there's a thing called an opposing defense.

Said opposing defense just so happens to also know precisely where the 1st down marker is. And you know what smart defenses do? Flood that line. Go back and watch film of the Patriots schemes on 3rd down. Guess what you'll see an absolute ton of? A bunch of Patriots guys surrounding the line of gain.

And the fan strategy is to throw directly into those guys. Speaking of bad game plans... that one takes the cake.

You also could look at the other offense. They have a QB who is going to the HOF, based frequently on throwing to receivers who are well short of the first down marker on 3rd down and still manage to get a 1st down.

You also could look at the other offense. They have a QB who is going to the HOF, based frequently on throwing to receivers who are well short of the first down marker on 3rd down and still manage to get a 1st down.

Ummm, I'm pretty sure Joe has thrown balls to receivers short of the first down and the difference being our receivers don't get the first down. So is that Joe's fault or the receivers fault.

What do you take from the pic of Niko's sack?

[rmcjacket23]

  1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  1 hour ago, Minionhunter said:

  2 hours ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

  2 hours ago, MadStorkSociety said:

Thought the same thing. Four guys all at the first down marker. We have speedsters, one of them should be heading for the endzone corner.

Yet so many want to blame Joe. Team sport!

Yes, everyone even supposedly unbiased national reporters still blame Joe for poor offensive coordinator game plans. I swear the game plan was MM making a statement that he was in charge and not Joe. All the coordinator changes has got to be killing Joe, no consistency and stability. Harbs is still paying for not Firing Trestman at the end of last year. Harbs MUST be Savage this year and gut the entire offensive coaching system and get in someone who can fix both Joe and the line (Bobby might be the only safe guy, but still when you have everyone stopping short of the sticks, you would think that he should be coaching the guys up to get beyone that and not on the same parallel line); and then they need to stay for multiple years.

So when its poor mechanics and erratic accuracy (which it mostly was on Monday night), you can't blame coaches. There's just no logic behind it.

And for the millionth time, the reason why receivers can't just "run to the sticks" and catch a pass is because there's a thing called an opposing defense.

Said opposing defense just so happens to also know precisely where the 1st down marker is. And you know what smart defenses do? Flood that line. Go back and watch film of the Patriots schemes on 3rd down. Guess what you'll see an absolute ton of? A bunch of Patriots guys surrounding the line of gain.

And the fan strategy is to throw directly into those guys. Speaking of bad game plans... that one takes the cake.

You also could look at the other offense. They have a QB who is going to the HOF, based frequently on throwing to receivers who are well short of the first down marker on 3rd down and still manage to get a 1st down.

You also could look at the other offense. They have a QB who is going to the HOF, based frequently on throwing to receivers who are well short of the first down marker on 3rd down and still manage to get a 1st down.

Ummm, I'm pretty sure Joe has thrown balls to receivers short of the first down and the difference being our receivers don't get the first down. So is that Joe's fault or the receivers fault.

What do you take from the pic of Niko's sack?

Depends on the situation. In some cases its Joe's fault... not putting the ball in a place where a receiver can get YAC. In other cases its the receivers who don't take good enough routes to the sticks or don't fight hard enough for it.

I also know multiple times where Joe has completed a pass short of the sticks to a receiver and they HAVE gotten the first down. Its not an all or nothing proposition.

The Ninkovich sack is a good indication of my point... every single one of our receivers is at or beyond the line of gain, and yet none of them are open. Why is that? Why do you think there are four defenders within like a yard or two of where the 1st down marker is?

[Minionhunter]

  1 hour ago, Minionhunter said:

  2 hours ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

  2 hours ago, MadStorkSociety said:

Thought the same thing. Four guys all at the first down marker. We have speedsters, one of them should be heading for the endzone corner.

Yet so many want to blame Joe. Team sport!

Yes, everyone even supposedly unbiased national reporters still blame Joe for poor offensive coordinator game plans. I swear the game plan was MM making a statement that he was in charge and not Joe. All the coordinator changes has got to be killing Joe, no consistency and stability. Harbs is still paying for not Firing Trestman at the end of last year. Harbs MUST be Savage this year and gut the entire offensive coaching system and get in someone who can fix both Joe and the line (Bobby might be the only safe guy, but still when you have everyone stopping short of the sticks, you would think that he should be coaching the guys up to get beyone that and not on the same parallel line); and then they need to stay for multiple years.

So when its poor mechanics and erratic accuracy (which it mostly was on Monday night), you can't blame coaches. There's just no logic behind it.

And for the millionth time, the reason why receivers can't just "run to the sticks" and catch a pass is because there's a thing called an opposing defense.

Said opposing defense just so happens to also know precisely where the 1st down marker is. And you know what smart defenses do? Flood that line. Go back and watch film of the Patriots schemes on 3rd down. Guess what you'll see an absolute ton of? A bunch of Patriots guys surrounding the line of gain.

And the fan strategy is to throw directly into those guys. Speaking of bad game plans... that one takes the cake.

You also could look at the other offense. They have a QB who is going to the HOF, based frequently on throwing to receivers who are well short of the first down marker on 3rd down and still manage to get a 1st down.

No what was not done was repeatedly send 2 WR on deep routes or one deep and one crossing. Steve Smith was frustrated at Earwig. They had no game plan for if the Pats decided, hey, that Miami thing they did in the middle, we best stop that. The Ravens didn't attack that weak secondary and throw deep. And they didn't realize their one corner couldn't cover until mid way through the 4th.

[rmcjacket23]

  1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  1 hour ago, Minionhunter said:

  2 hours ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

  2 hours ago, MadStorkSociety said:

Thought the same thing. Four guys all at the first down marker. We have speedsters, one of them should be heading for the endzone corner.

Yet so many want to blame Joe. Team sport!

Yes, everyone even supposedly unbiased national reporters still blame Joe for poor offensive coordinator game plans. I swear the game plan was MM making a statement that he was in charge and not Joe. All the coordinator changes has got to be killing Joe, no consistency and stability. Harbs is still paying for not Firing Trestman at the end of last year. Harbs MUST be Savage this year and gut the entire offensive coaching system and get in someone who can fix both Joe and the line (Bobby might be the only safe guy, but still when you have everyone stopping short of the sticks, you would think that he should be coaching the guys up to get beyone that and not on the same parallel line); and then they need to stay for multiple years.

So when its poor mechanics and erratic accuracy (which it mostly was on Monday night), you can't blame coaches. There's just no logic behind it.

And for the millionth time, the reason why receivers can't just "run to the sticks" and catch a pass is because there's a thing called an opposing defense.

Said opposing defense just so happens to also know precisely where the 1st down marker is. And you know what smart defenses do? Flood that line. Go back and watch film of the Patriots schemes on 3rd down. Guess what you'll see an absolute ton of? A bunch of Patriots guys surrounding the line of gain.

And the fan strategy is to throw directly into those guys. Speaking of bad game plans... that one takes the cake.

You also could look at the other offense. They have a QB who is going to the HOF, based frequently on throwing to receivers who are well short of the first down marker on 3rd down and still manage to get a 1st down.

No what was not done was repeatedly send 2 WR on deep routes or one deep and one crossing. Steve Smith was frustrated at Earwig. They had no game plan for if the Pats decided, hey, that Miami thing they did in the middle, we best stop that. The Ravens didn't attack that weak secondary and throw deep. And they didn't realize their one corner couldn't cover until mid way through the 4th.

No actually this isn't what happened. What happened was that the Patriots typically play man coverage and they spent almost the entire game in zone coverage, which the Ravens greatly unexpected and didn't adapt to.

I mean I guess we could just throw deep into zone coverage, but not sure exactly how you expect that to work very often. The notable time we did Joe threw into double coverage to Wallace, who then let the ball go right through his hands into the arms of the safety, who was right there to make a play.

Became borderline impossible to do once you get to the 2nd half, when you're down 20 points already.

[Minionhunter]

That picture of the coverage on Niko's sack is absolutely embarrassing!!! All 4 receivers run straight to their defender and doesn't even appear they were trying to get open (can tell by the result of the play). Then you have 3 guys against 1 defender; 1 OLmen against 3 defenders and 2 OLmen taking 1 guy to the ground - NO WONDER JOE GOT SACKED!!! But i guess people will only blame Joe for the sack and not even blink an eye at crappy play by the receivers and the OL... This picture is the epitome of what the receivers and OL have been doing all season!!!

Yep. And notice neither you or I or anyone else is saying Joe wasn't part of the problem. He has his own share in this. He missed several throws badly, he failed to recognize open guys on at least two plays (that should have been easy reads, nothing crazy), and he took at least one of those sacks when he should have thrown it away and had time to realize that. But that loss was not on him, and I believe that slow lethargic play is MM making the calls too slowly and getting them in slow and dragging Joe down with that. MM is certainly NOT encouraging Joe to move that 2 minute quickly, you can see Joe having to think and that is causing the slow play. When he runs it himself, then he is really quick, makes the reads smoothly and it all seems to work, but when the OC is making him kowtow to his play, then it bogs Joe down, he thinks too much and it fails. That is what we saw to end the game Monday night.

[rmcjacket23]

  35 minutes ago, ibleedpurpleandblack said:

That picture of the coverage on Niko's sack is absolutely embarrassing!!! All 4 receivers run straight to their defender and doesn't even appear they were trying to get open (can tell by the result of the play). Then you have 3 guys against 1 defender; 1 OLmen against 3 defenders and 2 OLmen taking 1 guy to the ground - NO WONDER JOE GOT SACKED!!! But i guess people will only blame Joe for the sack and not even blink an eye at crappy play by the receivers and the OL... This picture is the epitome of what the receivers and OL have been doing all season!!!

Yep. And notice neither you or I or anyone else is saying Joe wasn't part of the problem. He has his own share in this. He missed several throws badly, he failed to recognize open guys on at least two plays (that should have been easy reads, nothing crazy), and he took at least one of those sacks when he should have thrown it away and had time to realize that. But that loss was not on him, and I believe that slow lethargic play is MM making the calls too slowly and getting them in slow and dragging Joe down with that. MM is certainly NOT encouraging Joe to move that 2 minute quickly, you can see Joe having to think and that is causing the slow play. When he runs it himself, then he is really quick, makes the reads smoothly and it all seems to work, but when the OC is making him kowtow to his play, then it bogs Joe down, he thinks too much and it fails. That is what we saw to end the game Monday night.

Which was probably be design. I don't think John had any intention of putting his defense back out there for longer than a handful of plays. Given the way they were playing, I certainly don't blame him for it.

We can score as quickly as possible, and the most likely outcome is still that we don't see the football again. I liked our teams chances of recovering an onside kick a lot more than I liked them stopping the Pats from converting less than like 1-2 first downs.

[Minionhunter]

  9 minutes ago, Minionhunter said:

  1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  1 hour ago, Minionhunter said:

  2 hours ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

  2 hours ago, MadStorkSociety said:

Thought the same thing. Four guys all at the first down marker. We have speedsters, one of them should be heading for the endzone corner.

Yet so many want to blame Joe. Team sport!

Yes, everyone even supposedly unbiased national reporters still blame Joe for poor offensive coordinator game plans. I swear the game plan was MM making a statement that he was in charge and not Joe. All the coordinator changes has got to be killing Joe, no consistency and stability. Harbs is still paying for not Firing Trestman at the end of last year. Harbs MUST be Savage this year and gut the entire offensive coaching system and get in someone who can fix both Joe and the line (Bobby might be the only safe guy, but still when you have everyone stopping short of the sticks, you would think that he should be coaching the guys up to get beyone that and not on the same parallel line); and then they need to stay for multiple years.

So when its poor mechanics and erratic accuracy (which it mostly was on Monday night), you can't blame coaches. There's just no logic behind it.

And for the millionth time, the reason why receivers can't just "run to the sticks" and catch a pass is because there's a thing called an opposing defense.

Said opposing defense just so happens to also know precisely where the 1st down marker is. And you know what smart defenses do? Flood that line. Go back and watch film of the Patriots schemes on 3rd down. Guess what you'll see an absolute ton of? A bunch of Patriots guys surrounding the line of gain.

And the fan strategy is to throw directly into those guys. Speaking of bad game plans... that one takes the cake.

You also could look at the other offense. They have a QB who is going to the HOF, based frequently on throwing to receivers who are well short of the first down marker on 3rd down and still manage to get a 1st down.

No what was not done was repeatedly send 2 WR on deep routes or one deep and one crossing. Steve Smith was frustrated at Earwig. They had no game plan for if the Pats decided, hey, that Miami thing they did in the middle, we best stop that. The Ravens didn't attack that weak secondary and throw deep. And they didn't realize their one corner couldn't cover until mid way through the 4th.

No actually this isn't what happened. What happened was that the Patriots typically play man coverage and they spent almost the entire game in zone coverage, which the Ravens greatly unexpected and didn't adapt to.

I mean I guess we could just throw deep into zone coverage, but not sure exactly how you expect that to work very often. The notable time we did Joe threw into double coverage to Wallace, who then let the ball go right through his hands into the arms of the safety, who was right there to make a play.

Became borderline impossible to do once you get to the 2nd half, when you're down 20 points already.

I see what you are saying and I agree. What I mean is planning for it and sending two speed threats deep on the outside so they have to pick their poison. Just like us the Pats weakness is the secondary. They will break when repeatedly tested and probed for that weakness.

Yes also you point out the Wallace thing, which may have made Joe hesitant to trust the deep ball. That would be odd though since he is usually confident in throwing it even if it is a gamble. Here he would have needed to gamble or read which way the zone was going and throw out of it, or have well designed plays to get his matchup. This is why I say it is the OC and game plan, plus zero adaption at the half.

[rmcjacket23]

  18 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  23 minutes ago, Minionhunter said:

  1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  2 hours ago, Minionhunter said:

  2 hours ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

  3 hours ago, MadStorkSociety said:

Thought the same thing. Four guys all at the first down marker. We have speedsters, one of them should be heading for the endzone corner.

Yet so many want to blame Joe. Team sport!

Yes, everyone even supposedly unbiased national reporters still blame Joe for poor offensive coordinator game plans. I swear the game plan was MM making a statement that he was in charge and not Joe. All the coordinator changes has got to be killing Joe, no consistency and stability. Harbs is still paying for not Firing Trestman at the end of last year. Harbs MUST be Savage this year and gut the entire offensive coaching system and get in someone who can fix both Joe and the line (Bobby might be the only safe guy, but still when you have everyone stopping short of the sticks, you would think that he should be coaching the guys up to get beyone that and not on the same parallel line); and then they need to stay for multiple years.

So when its poor mechanics and erratic accuracy (which it mostly was on Monday night), you can't blame coaches. There's just no logic behind it.

And for the millionth time, the reason why receivers can't just "run to the sticks" and catch a pass is because there's a thing called an opposing defense.

Said opposing defense just so happens to also know precisely where the 1st down marker is. And you know what smart defenses do? Flood that line. Go back and watch film of the Patriots schemes on 3rd down. Guess what you'll see an absolute ton of? A bunch of Patriots guys surrounding the line of gain.

And the fan strategy is to throw directly into those guys. Speaking of bad game plans... that one takes the cake.

You also could look at the other offense. They have a QB who is going to the HOF, based frequently on throwing to receivers who are well short of the first down marker on 3rd down and still manage to get a 1st down.

No what was not done was repeatedly send 2 WR on deep routes or one deep and one crossing. Steve Smith was frustrated at Earwig. They had no game plan for if the Pats decided, hey, that Miami thing they did in the middle, we best stop that. The Ravens didn't attack that weak secondary and throw deep. And they didn't realize their one corner couldn't cover until mid way through the 4th.

No actually this isn't what happened. What happened was that the Patriots typically play man coverage and they spent almost the entire game in zone coverage, which the Ravens greatly unexpected and didn't adapt to.

I mean I guess we could just throw deep into zone coverage, but not sure exactly how you expect that to work very often. The notable time we did Joe threw into double coverage to Wallace, who then let the ball go right through his hands into the arms of the safety, who was right there to make a play.

Became borderline impossible to do once you get to the 2nd half, when you're down 20 points already.

I see what you are saying and I agree. What I mean is planning for it and sending two speed threats deep on the outside so they have to pick their poison. Just like us the Pats weakness is the secondary. They will break when repeatedly tested and probed for that weakness.

Yes also you point out the Wallace thing, which may have made Joe hesitant to trust the deep ball. That would be odd though since he is usually confident in throwing it even if it is a gamble. Here he would have needed to gamble or read which way the zone was going and throw out of it, or have well designed plays to get his matchup. This is why I say it is the OC and game plan, plus zero adaption at the half.

OK but its the biggest fan fallacy around... when the offense is humming its a great game plan and scheme, and when its struggling, its a bad game plan and scheme.

I'm not even saying that those things don't happen from time to time... I wasn't a fan of the lack of adaption to the Patriots D on Monday. But despite what fans think, it is possible to have a great game plan that fails because of execution. And its also possible to have a bad game plan that succeeds because of execution. The difference is that most fans can never recognize either of these instances, because the only thing they care about is the result, and that's how they judge these things. In a lot of cases, its not even close to the right way to look at things.

Frankly, I could probably argue that there's really no such thing as a "bad gameplan". There's a gameplan that isn't working and a coach who doesn't have the ability or desire to modify it to find what does work, but I can't really think of any instances where a coach studied film and came up with a bad gameplan for how to attack a team. 90% of it falls on execution of the gameplan by the players.

[TheConquerorWorm]

  1 hour ago, ibleedpurpleandblack said:

  2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  2 hours ago, Minionhunter said:

  3 hours ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

  3 hours ago, MadStorkSociety said:

Thought the same thing. Four guys all at the first down marker. We have speedsters, one of them should be heading for the endzone corner.

Yet so many want to blame Joe. Team sport!

Yes, everyone even supposedly unbiased national reporters still blame Joe for poor offensive coordinator game plans. I swear the game plan was MM making a statement that he was in charge and not Joe. All the coordinator changes has got to be killing Joe, no consistency and stability. Harbs is still paying for not Firing Trestman at the end of last year. Harbs MUST be Savage this year and gut the entire offensive coaching system and get in someone who can fix both Joe and the line (Bobby might be the only safe guy, but still when you have everyone stopping short of the sticks, you would think that he should be coaching the guys up to get beyone that and not on the same parallel line); and then they need to stay for multiple years.

So when its poor mechanics and erratic accuracy (which it mostly was on Monday night), you can't blame coaches. There's just no logic behind it.

And for the millionth time, the reason why receivers can't just "run to the sticks" and catch a pass is because there's a thing called an opposing defense.

Said opposing defense just so happens to also know precisely where the 1st down marker is. And you know what smart defenses do? Flood that line. Go back and watch film of the Patriots schemes on 3rd down. Guess what you'll see an absolute ton of? A bunch of Patriots guys surrounding the line of gain.

And the fan strategy is to throw directly into those guys. Speaking of bad game plans... that one takes the cake.

You also could look at the other offense. They have a QB who is going to the HOF, based frequently on throwing to receivers who are well short of the first down marker on 3rd down and still manage to get a 1st down.

You also could look at the other offense. They have a QB who is going to the HOF, based frequently on throwing to receivers who are well short of the first down marker on 3rd down and still manage to get a 1st down.

Ummm, I'm pretty sure Joe has thrown balls to receivers short of the first down and the difference being our receivers don't get the first down. So is that Joe's fault or the receivers fault.

What do you take from the pic of Niko's sack?

Depends on the situation. In some cases its Joe's fault... not putting the ball in a place where a receiver can get YAC. In other cases its the receivers who don't take good enough routes to the sticks or don't fight hard enough for it.

I also know multiple times where Joe has completed a pass short of the sticks to a receiver and they HAVE gotten the first down. Its not an all or nothing proposition.

The Ninkovich sack is a good indication of my point... every single one of our receivers is at or beyond the line of gain, and yet none of them are open. Why is that? Why do you think there are four defenders within like a yard or two of where the 1st down marker is?

Exactly. Those 3 yard "checkdown" throws are not "designed" plays. They are the result of no one being open and Joe having to get rid of the ball. If we had a true #1 like a Julio Jones or Dez Bryant, Joe could just throw deep and let the WR make a play. But with WRs that are small & fast - that's not an option. Wallace is a one-trick pony (there is a reason he's been let go from 3 other teams). He's had a few good catches but plays soft. For instance, his big TD play against the Squealers in the 1st quarter - he had to sit out the rest of the half to "get his head right" (not because of injury). SSS is a beast but he's lost his speed. Like most rookies, Perriman is too inconsistent. We need to focus on bringing in WR that can get open instead of focusing on size or speed. OBJ & Antonio Brown are the best because they get open, period.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

The winds of change are in the air. Good to see Trump reaching out to those working and involved with bettering the community scene for future generations to come. (Ray, Brown, PB, etc) A strong society starts with a solid foundation.

Just a gut feeling but I see Reynolds making the jump as a returner before Campanaro. He has had time to work on his skills and adjust and has stayed healthy. Campanaro is still a bit rusty and the injuries make me somewhat hold my breath every time he takes to the field. If he can stay healthy he is a difference maker. The argument that a younger returner could add value at another position is true, but with so many WR's already it is hard to see who would be losing snaps to give way. Reynolds also adds the ability for trick plays, being a QB in collage. Flea flickers and options anyone? lol

[Swift 1]

9 hours ago, Minionhunter said:

Also I should say that That show is tremendously better than the Baltimore shows on a certain station, who leading up to the Miami game when I tuned in to get some local color the broadcasters were just pathetic cutting down Harbs without saying his name and saying how great Adam Gase was wand his players all said they loved him and playing for him and you didn't hear that about "some coaches" yuk yuk yuk, "I think I know who you are talking about" yuk yuk yuk. Despicable. They should be FIRED for that during pregame for the home team. I'll never listen to that station again. Only WNST now. Horrible of that station. I just want to say to those guys, Who won the BAL-MIA game? Huh? You two broadcasters should be fired before the next day sun rises.

That is the same way I think about the Sun paper reporters.

 

[bigcatfrank1]

Is Michael Floyd available? The Ravens can really use help at corner. Why not try to make a 1yr deal for the rest of the season, playoffs and see what happens.

[bigcatfrank1]

  7 hours ago, ibleedpurpleandblack said:

  8 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  8 hours ago, Minionhunter said:

  9 hours ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

  9 hours ago, MadStorkSociety said:

Thought the same thing. Four guys all at the first down marker. We have speedsters, one of them should be heading for the endzone corner.

Yet so many want to blame Joe. Team sport!

Yes, everyone even supposedly unbiased national reporters still blame Joe for poor offensive coordinator game plans. I swear the game plan was MM making a statement that he was in charge and not Joe. All the coordinator changes has got to be killing Joe, no consistency and stability. Harbs is still paying for not Firing Trestman at the end of last year. Harbs MUST be Savage this year and gut the entire offensive coaching system and get in someone who can fix both Joe and the line (Bobby might be the only safe guy, but still when you have everyone stopping short of the sticks, you would think that he should be coaching the guys up to get beyone that and not on the same parallel line); and then they need to stay for multiple years.

So when its poor mechanics and erratic accuracy (which it mostly was on Monday night), you can't blame coaches. There's just no logic behind it.

And for the millionth time, the reason why receivers can't just "run to the sticks" and catch a pass is because there's a thing called an opposing defense.

Said opposing defense just so happens to also know precisely where the 1st down marker is. And you know what smart defenses do? Flood that line. Go back and watch film of the Patriots schemes on 3rd down. Guess what you'll see an absolute ton of? A bunch of Patriots guys surrounding the line of gain.

And the fan strategy is to throw directly into those guys. Speaking of bad game plans... that one takes the cake.

You also could look at the other offense. They have a QB who is going to the HOF, based frequently on throwing to receivers who are well short of the first down marker on 3rd down and still manage to get a 1st down.

You also could look at the other offense. They have a QB who is going to the HOF, based frequently on throwing to receivers who are well short of the first down marker on 3rd down and still manage to get a 1st down.

Ummm, I'm pretty sure Joe has thrown balls to receivers short of the first down and the difference being our receivers don't get the first down. So is that Joe's fault or the receivers fault.

What do you take from the pic of Niko's sack?

Depends on the situation. In some cases its Joe's fault... not putting the ball in a place where a receiver can get YAC. In other cases its the receivers who don't take good enough routes to the sticks or don't fight hard enough for it.

I also know multiple times where Joe has completed a pass short of the sticks to a receiver and they HAVE gotten the first down. Its not an all or nothing proposition.

The Ninkovich sack is a good indication of my point... every single one of our receivers is at or beyond the line of gain, and yet none of them are open. Why is that? Why do you think there are four defenders within like a yard or two of where the 1st down marker is?

Situation? you need to add the 3rd element which is inexcusable.. plain and simple drops by the receivers. Monday night there were 5 pure drops/misses by receivers. All 5 drops were for more than 15 yds, 4 of the drops cost the Ravens a total of 80 yds of offense. 2 - to Wallace- drops in his hands, through his hands,1 - to Aiken he falls to his knees and drops the ball, 1- to Perriman he dosen't look back Joe hits him right in his side with the ball, The 5th drop was repeated in the end zone and Joe Flacco buried the 2nd one in Waller's gut for a TD. Some one needs to light a fire under these receivers and get them to catch the ball. Now I am not talking about any other passes, the simple fact is percentages are percentages. But drops are drops and they cost the Ravens big time! We need playmakers- not pass droppers.

[OUravensfan]

4 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

Situation? you need to add the 3rd element which is inexcusable.. plain and simple drops by the receivers. Monday night there were 5 pure drops/misses by receivers. All 5 drops were for more than 15 yds, 4 of the drops cost the Ravens a total of 80 yds of offense. 2 - to Wallace- drops in his hands, through his hands,1 - to Aiken he falls to his knees and drops the ball, 1- to Perriman he dosen't look back Joe hits him right in his side with the ball, The 5th drop was repeated in the end zone and Joe Flacco buried the 2nd one in Waller's gut for a TD. Some one needs to light a fire under these receivers and get them to catch the ball. Now I am not talking about any other passes, the simple fact is percentages are percentages. But drops are drops and they cost the Ravens big time! We need playmakers- not pass droppers.

Story of Joe's career 

[Rav'n Maniac]

Although we still have a chance, the light at the end of the tunnel is beginning to dim. The only way this team will see any further success is for everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, to perform at the top of their game. Players and Coaches included.

[Drinkmore Beer]

Remember when the Ravens were practicing without pads and everyone was raving about Correa as being the player to watch? Then comes real football and the guy hasn't a clue. Another Arthur Brown. Why don't the Ravens donate their next second round pick to charity and save us all the disappointment?

[Drew P]

15 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Exactly. Those 3 yard "checkdown" throws are not "designed" plays. They are the result of no one being open and Joe having to get rid of the ball. If we had a true #1 like a Julio Jones or Dez Bryant, Joe could just throw deep and let the WR make a play. But with WRs that are small & fast - that's not an option. Wallace is a one-trick pony (there is a reason he's been let go from 3 other teams). He's had a few good catches but plays soft. For instance, his big TD play against the Squealers in the 1st quarter - he had to sit out the rest of the half to "get his head right" (not because of injury). SSS is a beast but he's lost his speed. Like most rookies, Perriman is too inconsistent. We need to focus on bringing in WR that can get open instead of focusing on size or speed. OBJ & Antonio Brown are the best because they get open, period.

Slow down grasshopper. The home run ball doesn't exist because the run game doesn't.

Why in hell they do not attempt to establish the run is completely beyond me but if they did with the slightest commitment it would at least keep the opposing D some what honest.

[rmcjacket23]

  15 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Exactly. Those 3 yard "checkdown" throws are not "designed" plays. They are the result of no one being open and Joe having to get rid of the ball. If we had a true #1 like a Julio Jones or Dez Bryant, Joe could just throw deep and let the WR make a play. But with WRs that are small & fast - that's not an option. Wallace is a one-trick pony (there is a reason he's been let go from 3 other teams). He's had a few good catches but plays soft. For instance, his big TD play against the Squealers in the 1st quarter - he had to sit out the rest of the half to "get his head right" (not because of injury). SSS is a beast but he's lost his speed. Like most rookies, Perriman is too inconsistent. We need to focus on bringing in WR that can get open instead of focusing on size or speed. OBJ & Antonio Brown are the best because they get open, period.

Slow down grasshopper. The home run ball doesn't exist because the run game doesn't.

Why in hell they do not attempt to establish the run is completely beyond me but if they did with the slightest commitment it would at least keep the opposing D some what honest.

Not really. The problem is that if you spend too much time trying to establish the run, and you never establish it, its checkmate. You're done as an offense.

Quantity of runs isn't going to keep the opposing D honest... QUALITY of runs will. If you try establishing the run and the defense quickly figures out that they can stop your run game with a 6 man box, they've got you. At that point, there's nothing to be gained by running the ball... you're just doing it so after you lose you can say "well at least we were balanced".

There's some games where we abandoned the run too quickly... Redskins game comes to mind. Others, not so much. The Jets and Cowboys games were perfect examples of when fans think we abandon the run but we actually didn't. Because all they do is go to the box score and say "we only ran it 20 times... that's not enough". No context to that argument.

[rmcjacket23]

Is Michael Floyd available? The Ravens can really use help at corner. Why not try to make a 1yr deal for the rest of the season, playoffs and see what happens.

1. Floyd doesn't play corner.
2. He's going to be too busy getting suspended.

[ibleedpurpleandblack]

17 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Depends on the situation. In some cases its Joe's fault... not putting the ball in a place where a receiver can get YAC. In other cases its the receivers who don't take good enough routes to the sticks or don't fight hard enough for it.

I also know multiple times where Joe has completed a pass short of the sticks to a receiver and they HAVE gotten the first down. Its not an all or nothing proposition.

The Ninkovich sack is a good indication of my point... every single one of our receivers is at or beyond the line of gain, and yet none of them are open. Why is that? Why do you think there are four defenders within like a yard or two of where the 1st down marker is?

I believe your original point was putting the onus completely on Flacco for the inability of our receivers to (a) catch the ball (b) get YAC (c) find soft spots in coverage (d) get open - it's just like everyone else, blame Flacco for everything.  People want Joe to stand in the pocket, he stood in the "pocket" as it collapsed while four receivers stood next to their defender; now everyone is saying he should have rolled out - which is it, do you want him to stand in the pocket or get happy feet and roll out and try to make a play...

[ibleedpurpleandblack]

16 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

OK but its the biggest fan fallacy around... when the offense is humming its a great game plan and scheme, and when its struggling, its a bad game plan and scheme.
 

Not really, it's more like when the offense is humming its a great game plan and scheme and when its struggling - its Flacco's fault, he sucks, we need to get rid of him, he's no good blah blah blah.  (not my opinion, just what I read on here by damn near everyone else)

Joe is not the problem, it's the entire cast of characters on the offensive side of the ball that play too inconsistent.

Take away #89 and #88 and the offense struggles because nobody else steps up.

That said, I will say that NE had a much better game plan than we did; they had an answer for everything we did on both sides of the ball.  As for us, we yet again failed to make any in game adjustments and that's 100% on the coaching for a crappy game plan!!!

Edited December 15, 2016 by ibleedpurpleandblack

[rmcjacket23]

  17 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Depends on the situation. In some cases its Joe's fault... not putting the ball in a place where a receiver can get YAC. In other cases its the receivers who don't take good enough routes to the sticks or don't fight hard enough for it.

I also know multiple times where Joe has completed a pass short of the sticks to a receiver and they HAVE gotten the first down. Its not an all or nothing proposition.

The Ninkovich sack is a good indication of my point... every single one of our receivers is at or beyond the line of gain, and yet none of them are open. Why is that? Why do you think there are four defenders within like a yard or two of where the 1st down marker is?

I believe your original point was putting the onus completely on Flacco for the inability of our receivers to (a) catch the ball (b) get YAC (c) find soft spots in coverage (d) get open - it's just like everyone else, blame Flacco for everything.  People want Joe to stand in the pocket, he stood in the "pocket" as it collapsed while four receivers stood next to their defender; now everyone is saying he should have rolled out - which is it, do you want him to stand in the pocket or get happy feet and roll out and try to make a play...

No, my original point was never putting it on Flacco. Not sure how anybody could have thought that.

ONE of my posts puts a lot of the offenses problems in that particular game on Joe being erratic with his accuracy and doing a terrible job of working through his progressions.

I agree that our receivers are not good at creating separation consistently, but lets also not pretend that one image from one play summarizes the offense for the entire day.

Specifically, I've been told a lot on these boards that literally all Joe needs is time and space to throw. There is no argument that he didn't get that in the Patriots game. And when he did, highly unimpressive.

[ibleedpurpleandblack]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No, my original point was never putting it on Flacco. Not sure how anybody could have thought that.

ONE of my posts puts a lot of the offenses problems in that particular game on Joe being erratic with his accuracy and doing a terrible job of working through his progressions.

I agree that our receivers are not good at creating separation consistently, but lets also not pretend that one image from one play summarizes the offense for the entire day.

Specifically, I've been told a lot on these boards that literally all Joe needs is time and space to throw. There is no argument that he didn't get that in the Patriots game. And when he did, highly unimpressive.

Not sure what game you were watching; ok maybe Joe did have another second to throw but to who?  Our receivers weren't able to beat the zone coverage and get open, that's why he checked it down.  Could you not see him start from the left and progress to the right and then check down.  Joe can't make these receivers get open, that's something they either now how to do or they don't and right now #89 is the only one (IMO) smart enough to do that.

[rmcjacket23]

  16 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

OK but its the biggest fan fallacy around... when the offense is humming its a great game plan and scheme, and when its struggling, its a bad game plan and scheme.
 

Not really, it's more like when the offense is humming its a great game plan and scheme and when its struggling - its Flacco's fault, he sucks, we need to get rid of him, he's no good blah blah blah. 

Joe is not the problem, it's the entire cast of characters on the offensive side of the ball that play too inconsistent.

Take away #89 and #88 and the offense struggles because nobody else steps up.

So you're saying that nobody is complaining about Marty or the offensive play calling? There's literally nobody on these boards asking on a weekly basis why we aren't running the ball more?

Best thing I can tell you to eliminate this perception is to go back and reread the entire threads in these instances.

Joe gets a ton of criticism, and so does literally any OC that we've had since he's been here when the offense plays poorly.

Same exact concept on defense. When the defense has a bad day... you see a lot of the name Pees in these discussions.

[rmcjacket23]

  5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No, my original point was never putting it on Flacco. Not sure how anybody could have thought that.

ONE of my posts puts a lot of the offenses problems in that particular game on Joe being erratic with his accuracy and doing a terrible job of working through his progressions.

I agree that our receivers are not good at creating separation consistently, but lets also not pretend that one image from one play summarizes the offense for the entire day.

Specifically, I've been told a lot on these boards that literally all Joe needs is time and space to throw. There is no argument that he didn't get that in the Patriots game. And when he did, highly unimpressive.

Not sure what game you were watching; ok maybe Joe did have another second to throw but to who?  Our receivers weren't able to beat the zone coverage and get open, that's why he checked it down.  Could you not see him start from the left and progress to the right and then check down.  Joe can't make these receivers get open, that's something they either now how to do or they don't and right now #89 is the only one (IMO) smart enough to do that.

Sort of.

The narrative on Joe for 9 years now has been if you take away his primary on any given play, you've got him. You will win that play as a defense most of the time. That's the difference between the Patriots game and the Dolphins game. You rarely saw Joe going through progressions in the Dolphins game... because the primary read on the overwhelming majority of passing plays was open every time.

This notion that a QB can't make his receivers get open is completely wrong. Aaron Rodgers specifically completes an absolute ton of passes on a weekly basis to receivers who very clearly aren't open. Every single good QB in the history of the league has done that. 100% of them. Some QBs are able to throw their guys open, and others are able to complete passes in the tightest of windows. That's a combination of skill from the QB and from the receiver.

What your statement sounds like to me is that in any given week, if his receivers aren't getting open, we should just shut it down. Throw our hands up and say "well my guys ain't getting open so I guess we're losing this one". If that's the mentality, its pathetic. Its all you need to know about why an offense is inconsistent and downright bad at times.

I'm not even disagreeing that our receivers struggled to get open... I've been saying that for weeks. But the reality is that there were also plenty of opportunities to complete passes to "open" receivers that weren't executed on, through the fault of numerous people (Flacco definitely included).

[rmcjacket23]

3 hours ago, ibleedpurpleandblack said:

Not sure what game you were watching; ok maybe Joe did have another second to throw but to who?  Our receivers weren't able to beat the zone coverage and get open, that's why he checked it down.  Could you not see him start from the left and progress to the right and then check down.  Joe can't make these receivers get open, that's something they either now how to do or they don't and right now #89 is the only one (IMO) smart enough to do that.

For your viewing pleasure...

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/12/15/tale-of-the-tape/the-joe-flacco-check-down/

[Bat-mite]

54 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

For your viewing pleasure...

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/12/15/tale-of-the-tape/the-joe-flacco-check-down/

Excellent assessment.  Pictures don't lie.