Week 14: The Good, the Bad, the Ugly discussion/rant Patriots edition

[Cville-Raven]

1 hour ago, -Truth- said:

Mosley did struggle in this one, but this is a puzzling post on all accounts. This has been Mosley's best season in coverage. The only TD he's given up all year was a 3 yard score when manned up against Tyler Eifert with Andy Dalton having 7 seconds to throw in the pocket. Against that, he's had 3 INTs, one of them game-ending, and 7 PDs, at least one of which was almost an INT itself, i.e. against Pittsburgh and arguably Cincinnati. This is contrary to his rookie campaign wherein he was quietly among the league leaders in most categories about LBs in terms of yards, receptions and scores given up. He's also statistically among the league leaders in run stop percentages, or plays constituting an offensive failures, among all LBs. He's spent just over 200 snaps in run defense. We've missed the least tackles of any defense in the NFL coming into last week with 57, so it's unlikely that he can't tackle as those misses would reflect in this figure. Hue Jackson stated that Mosley, "might be one of the best players in football," just a few weeks ago in November, PFF currently has him as the 11th best LB in football, and in the 2 games without him this season, we've allowed 8.5 PPG more per game along with 121 more yards of offense. I get the desire to make note of his play considering his struggles last night, but I strongly doubt that he can be classified as non-existent. I feel that an assessment of that nature leans too hard on tackle numbers, which can be a wildly misleading statistic at times, this being one of them.

Yeah that was probably the most baffling post of this thread. Dude has about as good coverage numbers as you're going to get from a ILB and to say he can't tackle is utter nonsense. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Cville-Raven

[-Truth-]

5 minutes ago, Cville-Raven said:

Yeah that was probably the most baffling post of this thread. Dude has about as good coverage numbers as you're going to get from a ILB and to say he can't tackle is utter nonsense. 

I'm with you there. Apart from just a few games, he's been very good in coverage.

Edited December 13, 2016 by -Truth-

[RayRayRaven]

5 hours ago, Cville-Raven said:

Actually Cary Williams locked up that game but the forced fumble was a great play. Pretty much his only play of any significance as a raven. 

actually the turnin point was the pollard hit tell us the key to this game should be entertainin

[Cville-Raven]

3 minutes ago, RayRayRaven said:

actually the turnin point was the pollard hit tell us the key to this game should be entertainin

The offense taking over in the second half was the key to that game and that's not even debatable. 

[RayRayRaven]

hopeful smiths ankle can mend for a hopeful playoff game.  Gonna be tough @ 7-6, but still a chance.

Weddle's bite @ play action sealed the deal don't think I ever saw Ed Reed take that bait.

Brady threw for huge yardage, pass rush was poor at best. Jimmy was ballin, Tavon Young was a target, Powers a liability. Mosely looked like a possum trying to race greyhounds.

Blocked field goal, tuckers kicks were trending left after that. I hope they didn't get in his head.

Devin Hester can't play when our coaches can't see that its troublin

Their oline won vs our dline. 

Flacco was good joe bad joe. He throws some ugly balls. 

[RayRayRaven]

5 minutes ago, Cville-Raven said:

The offense taking over in the second half was the key to that game and that's not even debatable. 

not with you

[Cville-Raven]

Just now, RayRayRaven said:

not with you

I assumed you were talking about the AFC title game from years back when you brought up pollard. As for last nights game the defensive line get pushed around in the run game too much and the offense never attacked them with any urgency. 

[mc_red23]

3 minutes ago, Cville-Raven said:

I assumed you were talking about the AFC title game from years back when you brought up pollard. As for last nights game the defensive line get pushed around in the run game too much and the offense never attacked them with any urgency. 

The urgency from the offense last night was laughable. It was as though we were up by a score and wanted to protect it by running time off the clock. Think it took something like just over 2 minutes to go 40 yards and end up kicking a field goal.

[RayRayRaven]

8 minutes ago, mc_red23 said:

The urgency from the offense last night was laughable. It was as though we were up by a score and wanted to protect it by running time off the clock. Think it took something like just over 2 minutes to go 40 yards and end up kicking a field goal.

Flacco is never going to understand clock management as well as Brady ain't happenin.  He's also never gonna progress through reads like him either, but at least on one sack the receivers were 15 yards downfield and all were being held the refs sure noticed Flacco's false start though didn't they.  We just are not as disciplined a team as them and that makes beating them a huge chore. we don't have a good record vs them now. better than the bills or fins but not good.

lastly and it is lastly morningwig is out trestmannin trestman. if we were going to go unbalanced there was no need to fire trestman. though it was pretty clear they weren't gonna allow many ground yards

Edited December 13, 2016 by RayRayRaven

[Tank 92]

6 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

If you just stop reading as you say...there is no need to quote me and comment.

lol.... Sorry Mili, nothing personal. I was beat and should have gone to bed. We good. 

[BmoreBird22]

7 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

Except that - whose job is it really to coach the defense? Just saying.

Except that- whose job is it to go out there and execute a play? Just saying.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

The good, we did hold our own 

The bad, none of our team stood out. Hester looked scared and timid. Not sure what West was afraid of (early in the game he caught a short out and immediately dropped when the defender had his back to him and he could have moved the chains). 

Unknown, why the offensive play calls did not adapt to exploit the middle to deep threats more. A couple of hits down field would have stopped that pressure on Joe. 

Sad, Tavon getting hurt. He is our silver lining and when Elam came in it totally changed the Pats offense. I hate to say but but Elam has no reason to be a NFL team in any capacity. If we need to win out to make the play offs we have a very hard road as the Steelers are firing on all cylinders and the Bengals are never a easy win so i think our christmas gift was the win against Miami.

[BmoreBird22]

7 hours ago, football knowledge said:

If Jimmy Smith's ankle doesnt roll up the Patriots dont score 30 ?? He is no Pat Peterson, Richard Sherman, Chris Harris, Talib, Butler, Peters or any other CB of that caliber.  Heck, Earl Thomas IS of that caliber db for SEA and GB STILL would have blown out GB just based off of the way they played.. with that being said Tom Brady still would have scored 30 points and one player thats not even elite doesn't prevent 3 TDs and 400 yards.  Additionally, 14 pts were gifted wrapped to you guys that is the only reason this was barely even a game. 

I mean, what did Edelman have? Like three catches on 9 targets for 34 yards before Jimmy went out? Tom Brady was losing his mind because Edelman just couldn't beat Jimmy's coverage. 

But yeah, no difference whatsoever.

Also, Butler really isn't a shutdown corner and Sherman has been way off his game in recent years.

Edited December 13, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[jimmypowder]

The Patriots deep zone completely confused our coaching staff and it's pretty critical to be able to run the ball but we got too far behind and needed to pass . 

The only thing available was the dink and dunk . 

 

Rule no 1- you can't get too far behind against the Patriots and expect to come back . They play the deep zone very very well .

 

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by jimmypowder

[Cillmatic]

We got out coached and outplayed in every conceivable way. The only reason we were actually competitive I'd because the Patriots' return man is terrible. This offense needs to be blown up and Flacco needs to learn how to play football. You DONT walk to the side line when you have less than a few minutes left on the clock. He's been non chalant his whole career and its infecting the rest of the team, wasted a lot of time. He can't really read defenses and he gets scared and forces balls to the closest option(Wallace on a quick slant) no matter how much pressure he's ACTUALLY getting. The biggest mistake we ever made was not re-signing him before the super bowl season. Harbaugh needs to call Hester into his office today, send him packing.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Cillmatic

[edthehead]

flacco, harb

enough said,

yes we can talk about, Mr why is he here elam

or, Mr I am here to just collect a check hester

but it will come down to 2 people

always,

flacco and harb  

[Hardbaugh]

Typical Flacco game. As much as I dislike Brady, I wish Flacco had a slim amount of his competitiveness and work ethic.  Mr backfoot does not sell out for his teammates, consistently throwing off his back foot instead of driving off it like he is playing scared. He's thrown off it so much it's now a habit and he does it when no rush is there and he's been doing it since the opening game.

[Dr. Kelley]

20 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I mean, what did Edelman have? Like three catches on 9 targets for 34 yards before Jimmy went out? Tom Brady was losing his mind because Edelman just couldn't beat Jimmy's coverage. 

But yeah, no difference whatsoever.

Lol Brady went 5 for 5 and scored a touchdown the very drive before when jimmy was in the game

Hardly sounds like Brady was losing his mind

[FerrariFan87]

Now we need to win out to have a chance at the playoffs... but I don't see us beating Pitt without Jimmy, so... yeah. Losing to the Jets, Raiders, and Redskins like we did is going to come back and haunt us. Thanks, Harbs!

Oh, well, at least we improved after last season's debacle.

[AsianRice]

our playoff picture looks very very slim......

[TheRavenouseD2008]

Gonna say this  , the ravens said they knew of the situation of Konrad Reuland  .  I wonder how much of that was weighing on them as they played not an excuse buy a human response to tragedy . Remember we say the ravens are family, this was a little or big brother to some . If that had some negative effect I can understand that and I can forgive that . Somethings are bigger of football, family and friends are two.

[BmoreBird22]

I felt like Joe Flacco had an abysmal night, but I also don't feel that was entirely his fault. 

The Ravens ran the ball a grand total of four times in the first half and didn't run it a single time on their opening drive. I said all last week that a repeat of the Dolphins game was unlikely and the Ravens needed to stay committed to the run to be able to effectively beat their opponents with offense, not just defense. I think the abysmal showing was largely due to the fact that the Ravens showed no desire to run the ball. I think Marty would have rather just thrown the ball on every single play if Harbaugh wouldn't have eaten him alive for it. No balance there whatsoever. 

As far as Flacco goes though- check-down city and it was not working out for the offense. It was really frustrating to see Flacco look for like one second and quickly move through his reads, then just decide to check it down. The Patriots came in rushing three on 22% of drop backs and only blitzed 14 times, or about 25% of the time. Flacco was pressured on just 8 of his drop backs, good for 14%, the lowest in the league this week. If you work through your progressions that quickly and then just dump it off after a second, you're never going to give your receivers time to get open. The offensive line had a rough first couple drives, but they really came back in a strong way and gave Flacco time, but Flacco was just in total check-down mode. It was really frustrating to see him take shots down the field in the second half and get the offense going, but as soon as they hit the red zone, just little two yard passes that got blown up immediately.

And what was with that "hurry up" offense. The Ravens took the play clock down to five every single time and then Flacco would throw a two yard pass that would get immediately stuffed and then take the clock down to five seconds, again. Zero sense of urgency and zero sense to the play calling and decision making. And speaking of decision making, yes, I do put a lot of that safety on Flacco. The defense loaded up the box and shifted and Flacco didn't make a single attempt to slide the protection or adjust the direction of the play. They shifted to the side that the Ravens were running, too. And no, I'm not saying that they should have checked into a run, but at least make an adjustment.

On a positive note from the offense, Kenneth Dixon runs so hard and with so much violence. I don't think I saw the first man take him down a single time last night. He just had a drive and desire that the rest of the offense lacked. He was going to fight for every single yard and make sure to punish whoever dared to touch him. He's going to be a good one for a very long time here soon.

Defensively, nothing hurts more than the loss of Jimmy Smith. I think he's up there with Weddle and Suggs as the top players that you cannot lose if you want to remain competitive. Just what he allows you to do with your coverages and with the safety help over the top is invaluable. 

The Ravens pass rush was actually pretty decent today and did a generally good job of flustering Brady. I think they pressured him on over 35% of his drop backs, according to PFF. However, PFF also said all three of Brady's touchdowns were under pressure, so that leaves me a bit confused on what exactly getting pressure is because on all three of his touchdowns, the pocket got pushed back, but Brady's mechanics were never compromised and he didn't have to move off his spot. When the Ravens actually moved Brady off of his spot, good things generally happened, like the Weddle interception and intentional grounding calls. Not sure I'd classify any of the three touchdowns as being under pressure, but that's just me.

The issue with the coverage was two fold. The first part was that the Patriots used a lot of stacked and unbalanced formations, so pressing or getting your DB's close to the line of scrimmage wasn't going to happen. Brady took advantage of a lot of clearing routes and hit his men underneath for big YAC opportunities. Second was some of the mismatches that they took advantage of, like having Powers or Webb on Bennett or having Mosley out one on one with James White. Mosley has been excellent in coverage this year, but I don't even care if you're Luke Kuechly- you don't leave him one on one with a running back with the receiving skills of White. Still very impressive that he ran him down. 

For as much praise as Zach Orr got, he was getting worked. He allowed all six throws in his coverage to be completed to six different receivers and a touchdown in which he never located the ball. Orr had great position, but without getting his head around, he had no chance of stopping that touchdown to Bennett. 

Also, for as much as people want to roast Elam, that touchdown wasn't on him. I know he's the number one scapegoat, but if you take time to set aside your bias, you can see he was caught off guard 100% by Hogan running free. That was on Weddle.

Also, I know this is going to be really hard for some to wrap their heads around, but give the defense a lot of props for keeping the Ravens in this game at all. They forced three four and outs, four punts, and an interception in the first half. Despite the offense surrendering a safety, they came right back out and got a three and out. 

The Ravens held the ball for a grand total of 5 minutes in the first quarter and had one drive (3:09, a punt) go for longer than 2:10, 2:20 in the first half. The defense was out there for seven drives against a top five offense, and despite no help from the offense, they really performed valiantly. 

The ugliest has to remain the hypocrites on this form.

I really loved reading about how the Patriots three man rush was so genius because it put eight back in coverage to smother the passing lanes, but if Dean Pees does it, it's idiotic because the Ravens don't get pressure and the quarterback just has so much time to work through his reads. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[ravensnj]

Reviewing the game: Our Offensive line appeared to hold up enough to make plays. Problem is, we weren't ready to make any. Other than against the Dolphins , we haven't shown any consistency. Although ,West appears to run with heart , we really need to keep Dixon on the field. When we fed him the ball in the the second half, he establishes himself by continually churning for extra yards. I say we ride him out and serve the ball up to Boyle too. They bring another sense of toughness, along with Steve Smith, something we have been lacking. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by ravensnj

[rmw10]

I know this is going to be long, but I'm going for it anyways.

The score doesn't reflect just how badly we were beat last night.  Our offense could not move the ball to save their lives.  Flacco was once again back to throwing off of his back foot.  We're going to have to strip him back down to the basics this offseason as his mechanics are just awful right now.  When they're on (like Miami), we're a good team.  When he's lost his mechanics though, we're in trouble.

Furthermore on the offense, Marty needs to step it up as well.  I think Trestman absolutely had to go, but Marty is turning in similar reports cards as Marc right now.  He keeps abandoning the run game when it's clear that it's actually working.  Flacco is throwing the ball 50 times a game but most are short little designed dumpoffs.  I understand that as a safety valve but it seems to be the first read on most plays in our playbook.  I cannot wait until the checkdown becomes the last read of this offense.  It boggles my mind how many times we're 3rd and 4 (after 2 short passes) and still throw the ball 1 or 2 yards short of the sticks.

The penalties have got to stop as well.  So many pre-snap flags.  Harbaugh insists that they're correctable but we've seen so little improvement in that area so far.

On the positive on the offensive side of the ball, Dixon looked good tonight and was clearly the featured back.  The yards may not necessarily show it, but the guy made something out of nothing all night.  He rarely goes down on first contact.  I'm glad he's gotten healthy.  I like the 1-2 punch of him and West.  Both are playing very well despite what their stat lines might show at the end of a game.

The defense is going to take a lot of crap, but the offense did them no favors.  The defense was gassed in the 1st quarter because they hardly got a break.  They need to be better, but expecting a defense to continually hold Brady down drive after drive in quick succession clearly wasn't going to happen.

The LBs were exposed last night, but that's what happens when you have Brady making adjustments at the line.  He schemed the RBs and Bennett 1-on-1 with our LBs and we just couldn't keep up.

Jimmy going down killed us, and while not strictly game related, I hope Ozzie realizes that.  The fans have known for multiple years now that when Jimmy goes down, disaster is on the way.  For his mantra of "you can never have enough CBs" we never actually have enough CBs.  He really needs to invest something in the position.  It's sad that one player can mean so much to a defense and everyone can see that, but nothing is done to cover him when he's out.

Webb and Weddle have been the best 2 players on the defense for several weeks now.  I saw an angle this morning that showed Weddle was mostly responsible for the long Hogan TD (and he admitted it this morning) but there was so much good from him as well.  Elam may not have been solely responsible, but it was still a very poor play for him.

After the blocked FG, the wolfpack seemed shaky.  Tucker didn't look like himself all night.  Cox had some iffy snaps in there as well.  Koch didn't seem to be kicking as well either.  Not sure what was up with them, but it wasn't normal.

That brings me to Hester.  I defended him early, but it's become clear in the past 4 or 5 games that he's got to.  Last night should be the final straw.  It's on the coaches as well for continually putting him out there.  He's killed us in the field position game, and it's inexcusable.  The first punt Hester let go that led to the safety was just absolutely ridiculous.  He was on a line to catch the ball, literally right where it came down, and sidestepped at the last second and let it bounce.  He has 0 confidence out there.  That's a play that pretty much every punt returner (except maybe Cyrus Jones) stands confident and makes the catch.  For him to literally move out from underneath the ball was crazy, and I'll be pretty angry if a move isn't made at this point.  I get that he's a veteran, but he's shown absolutely nothing to make me believe he should hold the job any longer.

And lastly, where is the sense or urgency?  Every single week, we're in a situation where we need points at the end of the game, either to keep the lead or get it back.  Every single week, we move up to the LOS nonchalantly, wasting 20 seconds or more, only to throw the ball for a 3 yard out.  It's ridiculous.  I'm not saying they need to panic and rush to the line, but show some more fire.

[OUravensfan]

7 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

We have 1 home game vs the Eagles and 2 road games left.

We're 2-4 so far in "road" games heading into both Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.  Winning out is an uphill climb for sure!

I agree Mili!

6 hours ago, I AM LEGEND said:

Just got home from the game and the only word to describe my feelings right now.... Disgusted.

Penalties, poor clock management, throwing 3 yd passes 70% of the game, horrid offense, overrated defense, players on the field that shouldn't be practice squad players.

 

Tonight was deflating. As bad as I can remember in recent years.  National TV and we got embarrassed. Nvm the score. We know that game should've been 45-0.

 

Also. Not sure if y'all could see or hear it at home but the patriots kept having the refs report  lineman as eligible receivers. Every time they did it...the whole stadium would erupt in laughter... pats beat the ever living crap out of us and embarrassed the Ravens on TV.

I can't explain how much I hate them and their fans, and all of Boston sports teams. Thank god this wasn't a playoff game, we were not ready and were outmatched, they ran on us!

[edthehead]

[BmoreBird22]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Kelley said:

Lol Brady went 5 for 5 and scored a touchdown the very drive before when jimmy was in the game

Hardly sounds like Brady was losing his mind

So you're telling me you missed the little sideline tirade when Brady was losing it after he missed Edelman in the end zone? Oh, got it.

[OUravensfan]

7 hours ago, football knowledge said:

Gifted wrapped those 14 pts.. thanks to Cyrus Jones and Matthew Slater.

Sure but we could argue Hester gift wrapped a safety for you and Weddle gift wrapped the game sealing TD

[ravensnj]

Why are we always the good guys? Why do we wait to be smacked (scored on) prior to doing anything. If you know you are going to be in a fight, you better get the first shots in. We consistently get smacked first in big games. Especially, against the Steelers, Bengals and Patriots. 

[BmoreBird22]

Also, I really don't understand how Joe can go from the play he had in Miami to the play he just had in New England.

And it's not just about not passing downfield (he took one pass over 10 yards in Miami). It's about the ball placement and his mechanics. In Miami, he stood in there and delivered dimes that were in front of the receivers and put at chest level to allow for YAC. In this game, passes were low, high, and behind, but rarely ever were they in a good position for YAC. He had a few good throws in the second half, but he was overwhelmingly bad in this game.