Week 14: The Good, the Bad, the Ugly discussion/rant Patriots edition

[hen826957]

Maybe if we get into the playoffs, we will beat them the next time go around. They take the win in the regular season while we take the win in the postseason LOL. 

[terrynjulia03]

The Good: Dixon. He came to play. Can't say the same for anyone else. 

The Bad: Pees defense. 

The Ugly: Clock management and the dumbest onside kick call in the history of onside kicks. 

[JEast82]

This seasons problems have to fall on the regression of the all mighty Flacco. The cause of those problems are anyone's guess. if I had to guess it is a combination of injury blowback and contract complacency. It's not another OC's fault. It's one of the two reasons I just mentioned. He is either too scared to hold onto the ball to allow his receivers to work or he is being lazy with his reads. Now that I think about it maybe the injury has led him to say "Hey, I got mine. I think I'll give my receiver one look and check down. That way I don't get hit and I look like I'm doing something by completing passes." Hmmmmm

[ratedr]

2 minutes ago, terrynjulia03 said:

Yeah this is prob gonna get negged but Mosley has been non existent all year. After a fantastic rookie season, he's been barely average. Don't know what happened. But dude can't cover, can't tackle and can't react to plays very quickly. 

Pees coached the talent out of him. Tends to happen.

[Cville-Raven]

2 minutes ago, terrynjulia03 said:

Funny thing is people bashing Pollard forget, it was him who laid out Ridley and made him go night night and locked up that game for us to go to the SB. 

Actually Cary Williams locked up that game but the forced fumble was a great play. Pretty much his only play of any significance as a raven. 

[terps85]

7 minutes ago, terrynjulia03 said:

The Good: Dixon. He came to play. Can't say the same for anyone else. 

The Bad: Pees defense. 

The Ugly: Clock management and the dumbest onside kick call in the history of onside kicks. 

Why was the onsides kick call dumb? I'd rather take a chance to not give the ball to the best QB ever.  Game was pretty much over with a 1st down anyways.

Edited December 13, 2016 by terps85

[Militant X 1]

9 minutes ago, ratedr said:

We still do. Win out and we're in.

We have 1 home game vs the Eagles and 2 road games left.

We're 2-4 so far in "road" games heading into both Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.  Winning out is an uphill climb for sure!

Edited December 13, 2016 by Militant X 1

[terrynjulia03]

7 minutes ago, terps85 said:

Why was the insides kick call dumb? I'd rather take a chance to not give the ball to the best QB ever.  Game was pretty much over with a 1st down anyways.

Because kick it out of the end zone and no time comes off. We still had 2 time outs and and the 2min warning. So essentially 3 TOs. You're D forces a 3 and out and you're receiving a punt at theoretically you're 35 yard line with a tad under a minute and a half to drive 65 yards for a TD. What are the odds of recovering a onside kick? 1 in 10? Maybe even worse. If you don't recover it, which they didn't, and you force a 3 and out they punt and pin you inside your 10, MAYBE you get lucky with a touchback, but even still now you have to drive 80 yards or worse for a TD. Harbaugh basically gave up and said he didn't trust the defense and the game was over at that point already. 

[terrynjulia03]

10 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

We have 1 home game vs the Eagles and 2 road games left.

We're 2-4 so far in "road" games heading into both Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.  Winning out is an uphill climb for sure!

Pretty sure the Eagles are the only game we're winning. 

[ratedr]

14 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

We have 1 home game vs the Eagles and 2 road games left.

We're 2-4 so far in "road" games heading into both Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.  Winning out is an uphill climb for sure!

I never said we were doing it lol. I just said we still control our own destiny.

[ratedr]

3 minutes ago, terrynjulia03 said:

Pretty sure the Eagles are the only game we're winning. 

Eagles are no gimme either honestly.

[ratedr]

I only have hope about PIT because we always seem to beat them these days, regardless of how bad we are. @CIN is a definite loss though.

[jboy19]

Ive seen this team have their fire lit by less embarrassing losses than that. Jimmy or no jimmy im not counting them out yet. 

The team fought and they lost, but they didn't give up. Frankly, Im just proud to be a fan of a team that fights. I dont think any other team could have stood their ground against the Patriots with 2/3 starting CBs injured, like the Ravens did. 

But above all, my heart's broken for the family of Konrad Reuland. I'll be praying all night for them. Between Coach Brooks, Tray Walker and now Reuland this season has really put things in perspective- reminded us what really matters. My heart is so heavy hearing of his passing, and thinking about the others as well, that I'm  not even sure i care about the loss tonight. 

But Win or lose, I just want to see some fight in this team. They aren't done yet and I hope they dont forget that. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by jboy19

[terrynjulia03]

12 minutes ago, ratedr said:

Eagles are no gimme either honestly.

Oh I seriously doubt we make it easy. I just feel they'll scratch out a win somehow. 

[Tornado700]

Three games left. Want a playoff spot? Then win all three games. Lose just one and turn in your gear for the season. Let's see what happens. Pittsburg is going to fight like hell to win that Christmas game, in Pittsburg.with Big Ben. Better bring at least a pint of your favorite hard stuff.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Tornado700

[terrynjulia03]

Interesting stat. The ONLY year Jimmy played all 16 games. 2013. Every other year since he came in in 2011 he's missed games and every year at least 4. 

[redrum52]

48 minutes ago, RavensRegime said:

It's amazing, before this game we controlled our own destiny to get in the playoffs, and we play like crap. IMO, this game wasn't even close! If we suppose to be a playoff team, we better start playing like it! The Steelers are rolling, so we have to win out! We had a really good chance to make a statement tonight, and blew it! Win or go home from here on out!

Still control it.  just have to win every game. 

[I AM LEGEND]

Just got home from the game and the only word to describe my feelings right now.... Disgusted.

Penalties, poor clock management, throwing 3 yd passes 70% of the game, horrid offense, overrated defense, players on the field that shouldn't be practice squad players.

 

Tonight was deflating. As bad as I can remember in recent years.  National TV and we got embarrassed. Nvm the score. We know that game should've been 45-0.

 

Also. Not sure if y'all could see or hear it at home but the patriots kept having the refs report  lineman as eligible receivers. Every time they did it...the whole stadium would erupt in laughter... pats beat the ever living crap out of us and embarrassed the Ravens on TV.

[Passepartout]

Really think that the penalties and poor clock manager will cost you and national TV to shine. Really did not think about that!

[redrum52]

1 hour ago, hen826957 said:

Maybe if we get into the playoffs, we will beat them the next time go around. They take the win in the regular season while we take the win in the postseason LOL. 

Playoffs?

[Static]

Exposed. This team just can't compete

[terps85]

1 hour ago, terrynjulia03 said:

Because kick it out of the end zone and no time comes off. We still had 2 time outs and and the 2min warning. So essentially 3 TOs. You're D forces a 3 and out and you're receiving a punt at theoretically you're 35 yard line with a tad under a minute and a half to drive 65 yards for a TD. What are the odds of recovering a onside kick? 1 in 10? Maybe even worse. If you don't recover it, which they didn't, and you force a 3 and out they punt and pin you inside your 10, MAYBE you get lucky with a touchback, but even still now you have to drive 80 yards or worse for a TD. Harbaugh basically gave up and said he didn't trust the defense and the game was over at that point already. 

I mean Brady did throw for 400 and is probably the best QB of all time. Getting a 3 and out there is much easier said than done. Kickoff was at 2:03 I think, so any return would have lost the 2 minute warning. I'd much rather lose trying for the onside kick than hoping to stop Brady. 

 

Edit: I would also say your guess of getting the ball at the 35 or so is accurate. Wouldn't the extra 15-20 yards be worth the chance to get the ball at the ~50 with the timeouts left?

Edited December 13, 2016 by terps85

[Militant X 1]

35 minutes ago, I AM LEGEND said:

Just got home from the game and the only word to describe my feelings right now.... Disgusted.

Penalties, poor clock management, throwing 3 yd passes 70% of the game, horrid offense, overrated defense, players on the field that shouldn't be practice squad players.

 

Tonight was deflating. As bad as I can remember in recent years.  National TV and we got embarrassed. Nvm the score. We know that game should've been 45-0.

 

Also. Not sure if y'all could see or hear it at home but the patriots kept having the refs report  lineman as eligible receivers. Every time they did it...the whole stadium would erupt in laughter... pats beat the ever living crap out of us and embarrassed the Ravens on TV.

Sorry you actually paid money to witness that mess that the Ravens put on the field tonight live and in living color.

[Moderator 2]

2 hours ago, JEast82 said:

This seasons problems have to fall on the regression of  Flacco. The cause of those problems are anyone's guess. if I had to guess it is a combination of injury blowback and contract complacency. It's not another OC's fault. It's one of the two reasons I just mentioned. He is either too scared to hold onto the ball to allow his receivers to work or he is being lazy with his reads. Now that I think about it maybe the injury has led him to say "Hey, I got mine. I think I'll give my receiver one look and check down. That way I don't get hit and I look like I'm doing something by completing passes." Hmmmmm

I think he is still recovering from the knee. Gruden said it during the broadcast it's just been a year. By gutting it out and working your rear off rehabbing you can come back in nine months but the mental stuff is still there.  He's never played with a brace and tries to slide and the brace gets messed up. It  Rivers, Manning, Palmer and even Brady were not as great the next year.  Brady tore his ACL week 1, Flacco week 12.  I think what Joe needs the same OC not named Cameron for more then one season, he has had 5 OC's since the Super Bowl.  The line is a Sieve when the starters are out and Flacco did not make the ST errors

I can't believe Brady is playing at the level he is at age 39, amazing.

[kjbmore]

2 hours ago, terps85 said:

The Ravens had the 5th best pass defense in DVOA.  While secondary depth is an issue, the starters are very good.  Young is a budding shutdown corner and Jimmy is good in his own right.  Add a pass rusher to this team and the defense is scary good.

 i honestly think we need to spend our top pick on a CB and look to add another top flight corner and move away from Jimmy as our #1 corner - if hes healthy and hes out there happy days we have too quality corners but, and its nothing against him - hes too frequently injured - we got smoked in 2014 when he was out and we're getting smoked this year when he goes down

vs the giants, doesnt play vs cowboys, today vs the patriots - to beat the best teams we need our best players on the field 

jimmy unfortunately has not shown to be able to stay on the field 

[kjbmore]

3 hours ago, terps85 said:

2 hours ago, terrynjulia03 said:

Interesting stat. The ONLY year Jimmy played all 16 games. 2013. Every other year since he came in in 2011 he's missed games and every year at least 4. 

my point exactly, our problem with our secondary is we're depending on a guy who is injury prone - only reason elam was on the field tonight

need to move on, not totally but we need to build our secondary thinking jimmy will not play - we need to add a #1 corner and i would look to add another corner who can play slot but ok if called to go outside in a pinch

we look like - new #1 corner, #2 Jimmy, Tavon slot, - backups - wright, canady, another slot corner not powers 

when Jimmy smith gets injured because he will, its just a matter of when

#1 corner stays where he is, tavon either bounces out or stays in the slot, wright, canady, draft pick comes in

2014 injured, 2015 injured, 2016 looks like were going down the same road

stop crossing your fingers and hoping injury prone guys will stop being injured, go out and get help 

[-Truth-]

2 hours ago, terrynjulia03 said:

Yeah this is prob gonna get negged but Mosley has been non existent all year. After a fantastic rookie season, he's been barely average. Don't know what happened. But dude can't cover, can't tackle and can't react to plays very quickly. 

Mosley did struggle in this one, but this is a puzzling post on all accounts. This has been Mosley's best season in coverage. The only TD he's given up all year was a 3 yard score when manned up against Tyler Eifert with Andy Dalton having 7 seconds to throw in the pocket. Against that, he's had 3 INTs, one of them game-ending, and 7 PDs, at least one of which was almost an INT itself, i.e. against Pittsburgh and arguably Cincinnati. This is contrary to his rookie campaign wherein he was quietly among the league leaders in most categories about LBs in terms of yards, receptions and scores given up. He's also statistically among the league leaders in run stop percentages, or plays constituting an offensive failures, among all LBs. He's spent just over 200 snaps in run defense. We've missed the least tackles of any defense in the NFL coming into last week with 57, so it's unlikely that he can't tackle as those misses would reflect in this figure. Hue Jackson stated that Mosley, "might be one of the best players in football," just a few weeks ago in November, PFF currently has him as the 11th best LB in football, and in the 2 games without him this season, we've allowed 8.5 PPG more per game along with 121 more yards of offense. I get the desire to make note of his play considering his struggles last night, but I strongly doubt that he can be classified as non-existent. I feel that an assessment of that nature leans too hard on tackle numbers, which can be a wildly misleading statistic at times, this being one of them.

[RaineV1]

29 minutes ago, -Truth- said:

Mosley did struggle in this one, but this is a puzzling post on all accounts. This has been Mosley's best season in coverage. The only TD he's given up all year was a 3 yard score when manned up against Tyler Eifert with Andy Dalton having 7 seconds to throw in the pocket. Against that, he's had 3 INTs, one of them game-ending, and 7 PDs, at least one of which was almost an INT itself, i.e. against Pittsburgh and arguably Cincinnati. This is contrary to his rookie campaign wherein he was quietly among the league leaders in most categories about LBs in terms of yards, receptions and scores given up. He's also statistically among the league leaders in run stop percentages, or plays constituting an offensive failures, among all LBs. He's spent just over 200 snaps in run defense. We've missed the least tackles of any defense in the NFL coming into last week with 57, so it's unlikely that he can't tackle as those misses would reflect in this figure. Hue Jackson stated that Mosley, "might be one of the best players in football," just a few weeks ago in November, PFF currently has him as the 11th best LB in football, and in the 2 games without him this season, we've allowed 8.5 PPG more per game along with 121 more yards of offense. I get the desire to make note of his play considering his struggles last night, but I strongly doubt that he can be classified as non-existent. I feel that an assessment of that nature leans too hard on tackle numbers, which can be a wildly misleading statistic at times, this being one of them.

I think there's a perception that he's not making as much of an impact because his name isn't mentioned as much. But, similar to o-linemen, when you don't hear the name of a guy in coverage that can just mean that he's doing his job.

[Inqui]

18 minutes ago, -Truth- said:

Mosley did struggle in this one, but this is a puzzling post on all accounts. This has been Mosley's best season in coverage. The only TD he's given up all year was a 3 yard score when manned up against Tyler Eifert with Andy Dalton having 7 seconds to throw in the pocket. Against that, he's had 3 INTs, one of them game-ending, and 7 PDs, at least one of which was almost an INT itself, i.e. against Pittsburgh and arguably Cincinnati. This is contrary to his rookie campaign wherein he was quietly among the league leaders in most categories about LBs in terms of yards, receptions and scores given up. He's also statistically among the league leaders in run stop percentages, or plays constituting an offensive failures, among all LBs. He's spent just over 200 snaps in run defense. We've missed the least tackles of any defense in the NFL coming into last week with 57, so it's unlikely that he can't tackle as those misses would reflect in this figure. Hue Jackson stated that Mosley, "might be one of the best players in football," just a few weeks ago in November, PFF currently has him as the 11th best LB in football, and in the 2 games without him this season, we've allowed 8.5 PPG more per game along with 121 more yards of offense. I get the desire to make note of his play considering his struggles last night, but I strongly doubt that he can be classified as non-existent. I feel that an assessment of that nature leans too hard on tackle numbers, which can be a wildly misleading statistic at times, this being one of them.

Rekt.

And the bolded bit has to be one of the biggest understatements in this thread (though 90% of the statements in these threads every week are overstatements so there's that). Personally I think tackle stats mean next to nothing - if a guy darts into a hole and blows up a RB three yards behind the LoS that gets the same weight as said guy making contact after the RB's been running for 10 yards and getting dragged for another 10 yards, or if a runner's gone to ground you can slap their arm for a "down by contact" despite having done nothing of note, or you can have three guys in a pile-up who may or may not get a tackle count depending on the bean counter's mood that day, and so on. Tackle counts give a vague idea of how often someone was "there" but don't make an attempt to say what "there" actually means.

To add to your points about CJ, that pick against Washington probably would have been a game winner had they not been bailed out by a pretty stupid rule, and it was clear how much we missed him both against Washington and in the subsequent games when he was out with injury (though you've essentially brought up that last point yourself).

[-Truth-]

1 hour ago, RaineV1 said:

I think there's a perception that he's not making as much of an impact because his name isn't mentioned as much. But, similar to o-linemen, when you don't hear the name of a guy in coverage that can just mean that he's doing his job.

On the money there. Right on.

 

1 hour ago, Inqui said:

Rekt.

And the bolded bit has to be one of the biggest understatements in this thread (though 90% of the statements in these threads every week are overstatements so there's that). Personally I think tackle stats mean next to nothing - if a guy darts into a hole and blows up a RB three yards behind the LoS that gets the same weight as said guy making contact after the RB's been running for 10 yards and getting dragged for another 10 yards, or if a runner's gone to ground you can slap their arm for a "down by contact" despite having done nothing of note, or you can have three guys in a pile-up who may or may not get a tackle count depending on the bean counter's mood that day, and so on. Tackle counts give a vague idea of how often someone was "there" but don't make an attempt to say what "there" actually means.

To add to your points about CJ, that pick against Washington probably would have been a game winner had they not been bailed out by a pretty stupid rule, and it was clear how much we missed him both against Washington and in the subsequent games when he was out with injury (though you've essentially brought up that last point yourself).

Much appreciated. Agreed wholeheartedly about the overstatements. That entire segment about tackles is entirely on point, and I echo those sentiments to the fullest. Look at Alec Ogletree's performance against the Saints two weeks ago, for example. 12 tackles. Looks like an active week on paper. Then you factor in the fact that only 2 of those 12 were for gains of less than 4 yards and that most of the tackles were made on 9 rushing plays that totaled 48 yards. In reality, it seems like a win for the offense. I lost complete faith in the tackling numbers as a benchmark once Pat Angerer flirted with league-leading numbers, before settling for a whopping 148 tackles on the season, despite putting forth a well-below average showing in the running game. He was the epitome of the clean up crew, noting the example you've stated above in consistently bringing down ball carriers 5 yards after the LOS. Most quality MLBs/ILBs are likely to have triple digits tackle numbers, sure. But there are enough paper-performers each year in the Top 10 to make tackles a dicey metric to use for judging yearly performances.

True and true. Good points all around. Also agree with the rule. It has seemed incessantly harsh from the get-go.

Edited December 13, 2016 by -Truth-