Week 14: The Good, the Bad, the Ugly discussion/rant Patriots edition

[callahan09]

1 hour ago, Militant X 1 said:

 

That somebody was me and I stand by it.  

I see plenty of space in general. Perhaps my perspective is based upon my love for mobile QB's who wouldn't have waited for the pocket to collapse like that before taking off?  Any way you see it..it's bad!

There's three unblocked Patriots on his right and one on his left (who is the one who sacked him).  Which way was he supposed to go where at least one of these players doesn't tackle him before he gets back to the line of scrimmage?  The sack took less than 2.5 seconds, the pocket should have been clean because there were 6 blockers for 6 pass rushers, so Joe sits in the pocket, but the blockers messed up their assignments and exposed him.  Not sure how you can truly expect a different result on that play.

Edited December 14, 2016 by callahan09

[Static]

3 hours ago, omar586 said:

wow, this is ugly , u have 2 on one, 3 on 1, and 1 on 3. and 3 free pass rushers coming to wack flacco, lol

 

Don't forget that none of our receivers ever get separation 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

7 hours ago, codizzle said:

Here's a game to play.. can you spot how many glaring problems there are in this one screenshot 

(ninkovich sack play)

We simply got out schemed on this down. 6 rushers - 4 patterns at the 1st down marker - no outlet receivers - dead play.

[flynismo]

5 hours ago, Sir Spooky said:

It's 6 on 6 or should be at least. I think Juice looks like he was blocking cuz it doesn't like he was sneaking out to run a route. 

If there was more time, Flacco could have maybe attempted a throw to Pitta in the back corner of the endzone. 

My bad, you are correct, 6 vs 6.

Regardless, hooollyyy crap! How does that even happen?? sigh...

[FlocksGottaFeed]

5 hours ago, Sir Spooky said:

It's 6 on 6 or should be at least. I think Juice looks like he was blocking cuz it doesn't like he was sneaking out to run a route. 

If there was more time, Flacco could have maybe attempted a throw to Pitta in the back corner of the endzone. 

No time to step-up. You just throw it at Juice's foot and live to see another down.

[flynismo]

2 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

 

That somebody was me and I stand by it.  

I see plenty of space in general. Perhaps my perspective is based upon my love for mobile QB's who wouldn't have waited for the pocket to collapse like that before taking off?  Any way you see it..it's bad!

The announcers were laughing at us because there were four Patriots fighting over the sack. That play was a three step drop, there is no way in hell that four defenders should be in the backfield that fast. Forget a scrambling QB, we needed a teleporting QB on that play

[flynismo]

3 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

lmbo

I love it when girls say this

[codizzle]

3 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

 

That somebody was me and I stand by it.  

I see plenty of space in general. Perhaps my perspective is based upon my love for mobile QB's who wouldn't have waited for the pocket to collapse like that before taking off?  Any way you see it..it's bad!

Man mili I think even the average mobile QB ain't getting out of that 

 

the defender in the pocket furthest to the right is either a S/CB who could easily cover ground if tyrod I mean flacco had tried to roll right

[kjbmore]

10 hours ago, rmw10 said:

 

One. Step. Behind.

The Offense has to get booed off the field and we lose to the Redskins before we fire Trestman. Then Hester has to let punt after punt after punt go until it can't be ignored anymore.

Can we start being proactive and smart instead reactionary and short sighted.

The fact we even had to call upon Hester in the first place is an indication of how ill prepared our Front Office and Head Coach have been.

Hey Harbs weren't you a special teams coach - surely you can round up a half decent returner??

[arnie_uk]

4 hours ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

No time to step-up. You just throw it at Juice's foot and live to see another down.

It was 3rd down. we kicked a fg next play 

[Tru11]

8 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

lmbo Don't know why coordinators ever get fired then right? Since nothing is their fault or responsibility.

Coordinators get fired when their scheme does not work and the gameplan they install for every game fails to produce.

They oversee the entire unit.

The coaching for the players individually however fall on the position coaches.

The reason why Kubiak scheme worked was because he was allowed to bring in his own staff and they did instructed the players to the letter Kubiak wanted.

Not every coordinator has that luxury though.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by Tru11

[Italian Raven]

Congrats to them.. they simply out-coached us.

GOOD
Dixon and Juice´s elusiveness.
The use of Waller in the red-zone. 

BAD 
Jimmy´s injury.
Zuttah. I was watching the game in German, as I moved to the würstels´ land, and didn´t get to understand why was Urshel replacing him at one point (maybe I was too tired to even see an eventual injury)

UGLY:
Joe checkdowns as 1st-2nd option.
At this point it´s hard to tell whether our offensive inconsistencies are caused by the playcall, Joe being scared/conservative or a mix of both.

[757RavensFan]

1 hour ago, Italian Raven said:

Congrats to them.. they simply out-coached us.

GOOD
Dixon and Juice´s elusiveness.
The use of Waller in the red-zone. 

BAD 
Jimmy´s injury.
Zuttah. I was watching the game in German, as I moved to the würstels´ land, and didn´t get to understand why was Urshel replacing him at one point (maybe I was too tired to even see an eventual injury)

UGLY:
Joe checkdowns as 1st-2nd option.
At this point it´s hard to tell whether our offensive inconsistencies are caused by the playcall, Joe being scared/conservative or a mix of both.

Zutta was out bc they thought he was concussed.  He passed the concussion protocol and came back in to play.  

[Italian Raven]

31 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Zutta was out bc they thought he was concussed.  He passed the concussion protocol and came back in to play.  

ah ok.. thank you!

I realized I posted in the wrong thread btw .. I had too many of them open and messed up.
My bad mods 

[TuckerTime9]

The bad: Tom Brady racked up 400 passing yards

The INCREDIBLE: Tavon Young was responsible for 16 of those yards. What.

[Militant X 1]

10 hours ago, callahan09 said:

There's three unblocked Patriots on his right and one on his left (who is the one who sacked him).  Which way was he supposed to go where at least one of these players doesn't tackle him before he gets back to the line of scrimmage?  The sack took less than 2.5 seconds, the pocket should have been clean because there were 6 blockers for 6 pass rushers, so Joe sits in the pocket, but the blockers messed up their assignments and exposed him.  Not sure how you can truly expect a different result on that play.

Callahan...I thought that I said...."Perhaps my perspective is based upon my love for mobile QB's who wouldn't have waited for the pocket to collapse like that before taking off?"  key word being "perhaps".  

9 hours ago, flynismo said:

The announcers were laughing at us because there were four Patriots fighting over the sack. That play was a three step drop, there is no way in hell that four defenders should be in the backfield that fast. Forget a scrambling QB, we needed a teleporting QB on that play

But we both know that my boy Tyrod would have been gone before that collapse.  Joe is cement-footed! 

8 hours ago, codizzle said:

Man mili I think even the average mobile QB ain't getting out of that 

 

the defender in the pocket furthest to the right is either a S/CB who could easily cover ground if tyrod I mean flacco had tried to roll right

I hear you Dizz.  I did say that "any way you look at it that it was bad".  Poor blocking scheme by the Ravens O-line.

[Moderator 3]

18 hours ago, codizzle said:

Here's a game to play.. can you spot how many glaring problems there are in this one screenshot 

(ninkovich sack play)

Absolutely love this and the discussion it generated.  We should make this a regular feature.   

[Moderator 3]

2 hours ago, Italian Raven said:

ah ok.. thank you!

I realized I posted in the wrong thread btw .. I had too many of them open and messed up.
My bad mods 

We've got you covered. 

[Rav'n Maniac]

12 hours ago, flynismo said:

The announcers were laughing at us because there were four Patriots fighting over the sack. That play was a three step drop, there is no way in hell that four defenders should be in the backfield that fast. Forget a scrambling QB, we needed a teleporting QB on that play

I think it was a little more than a three step drop brother. Looking at the picture, if the imposed black line is the los then that's a 8 yd drop, just saying. Unless Flacco takes 3 yd steps backing up. 

Edited December 14, 2016 by Rav'n Maniac

[rmcjacket23]

30 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

I think it was a little more than a three step drop brother. Looking at the picture, if the imposed black line is the los then that's a 8 yd drop, just saying. Unless Flacco takes 3 yd steps backing up. 

Correct, LOS was the 12 yard line. I'd have to go back and watch the film to see how big the drop was, but I agree that conventional wisdom says it wasn't a simple 3 step drop.

[callahan09]

50 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

I think it was a little more than a three step drop brother. Looking at the picture, if the imposed black line is the los then that's a 8 yd drop, just saying. Unless Flacco takes 3 yd steps backing up. 

 

18 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Correct, LOS was the 12 yard line. I'd have to go back and watch the film to see how big the drop was, but I agree that conventional wisdom says it wasn't a simple 3 step drop.

It was a three-step drop.  He wasn't under center at the snap.  Flacco was standing at the 17-yard line when the ball was snapped, then he took a 3-step drop.

[Rav'n Maniac]

18 minutes ago, callahan09 said:

 

It was a three-step drop.  He wasn't under center at the snap.  Flacco was standing at the 17-yard line when the ball was snapped, then he took a 3-step drop.

Gotcha, thanks. Guess I was wrong 

[Tank 92]

22 hours ago, codizzle said:

Here's a game to play.. can you spot how many glaring problems there are in this one screenshot 

(ninkovich sack play)

Perfect illustration why passes are often thrown to receivers short of the sticks.

[Drew P]

1 hour ago, callahan09 said:

 

He wasn't under center at the snap. 

Correct, they abandoned under center snaps when Morningwood took over calling the check downs.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

10 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

It was 3rd down. we kicked a fg next play 

Good observation Arnie. Yes I'm (painfully) aware that it was 3rd and 4, but that's why you just ground it - less risk. It is always much better to ground the ball at an eligible receivers foot when you're in a 'dead play' situation than to take a sack. You just don't lose yards on sacks alone. You tend to lose game momentum, create more uncertainty on the line, risk QB injury and give your opponent more fire.

We simply had the wrong play at the wrong time and were fortunate we didn't get our QB injured and have an elite kicker that could at the very least still get points out of the drive. Just saying - we got completely out-schemed on that play. Have to give credit were credit when it's do. The 'Empire' won this episode.

[redrum52]

50 minutes ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

Good observation Arnie. Yes I'm (painfully) aware that it was 3rd and 4, but that's why you just ground it - less risk. It is always much better to ground the ball at an eligible receivers foot when you're in a 'dead play' situation than to take a sack. You just don't lose yards on sacks alone. You tend to lose game momentum, create more uncertainty on the line, risk QB injury and give your opponent more fire.

We simply had the wrong play at the wrong time and were fortunate we didn't get our QB injured and have an elite kicker that could at the very least still get points out of the drive. Just saying - we got completely out-schemed on that play. Have to give credit were credit when it's do. The 'Empire' won this episode.

The still shows there was already plenty of uncertainty on the line anyway...  Doubt there was much more to be had.

[-Truth-]

I've seen the Bernard Pollard tweet floated around about Baltimore paying for breaking up something special too early after the SuperBowl run. This was at times passed along with agreement in Pollard's mind-numbing theory. With that in mind, I'm genuinely curious as to what specifically was disassembled. Let's take a look at the difference between the 2012 and 2014 playoff teams.

Offensively, Joe Flacco started on both playoff teams. He enjoyed arguably his best year in 2014 under Gary Kubiak. Ray Rice was retained until the controversy and hasn't played a snap since. He was replaced by Justin Forsett, who rushed for over 1,200 yards that year with the league's highest YPC at RB. Torrey Smith started on both teams. We retained Vonta Leach until his retirement after the 2013 season. He was replaced with Kyle Juszczyk. Entirely different styles, but both were certainly capable FBs. We traded away Anquan Boldin for peanuts in an attempt to sign another FA, a regrettable move in my eyes. With that in mind, we likely wouldn't have courted Steve Smith Sr. into a back up role in the following offseason, so it at least worked out in that sense. Smith Sr. was coming off of a quality 1,000 yard campaign in the regular season of '14. Dennis Pitta was retained but was unavailable due to the injury. Owen Daniels played admirably in his absence. On the OL, Kelechi Osemele and Marshal Yanda started on both teams. We replaced the retired Matt Birk with Jeremy Zuttah. We replaced the perpetually-struggling Michael Oher with Ricky Wagner, one of the better RTs in the league in '14 before the Lisfranc. We traded Bryant McKinnie after an awful start to '13, and he was replaced with Eugene Monroe.

Defensively, we replaced the retired Ma'ake Kemoeatu with Brandon Williams. Haloti Ngata started on both teams. We replaced Arthur Jones, who's struggled mightily in Indianapolis after landing a significant contract, with Timmy Jernigan. Terrell Suggs started on both teams. We replaced Paul Kruger with Elvis Dumervil and Pernell McPhee. The duo of Ray Lewis, retired, and Dannell Ellerbe, struggling mightily in Miami after signing a massive contract, were swapped out with C.J. Mosley and Daryl Smith. Williams was an elite NT at the time, Mosley was a Pro-Bowler and DRoY runner-up. Jernigan and Smith put forth above-average seasons and we had the league's best pass rushing corps at the time between Suggs, Dumervil and McPhee. Courtney Upshaw was used on running downs in both years. The duo of Ed Reed and Bernard Pollard were swapped out with Will Hill and Darian Stewart. I would've personally loved to retain Reed considering that he's my all-time favorite player, though his level of play had trailed off. Pollard was released after being routinely exposed in coverage during the SuperBowl. Hill was an upgrade over Pollard, and a case could be made for Stewart as well. Corey Graham went on to play well for Buffalo so his loss was felt. Jimmy Smith was on both teams, though his injury in '14 was a costly one.

Our entire ST unit carried over, including Jacoby Jones. Onto the assessment.

Of every offensive starter from the SuperBowl roster of '12, we retained all of the possible ones coming into '13 but one, Boldin. His loss was felt, but would his presence alone have helped the offense overcome a dreadful performance from the OL that returned 4 starters, masked a running game that was averaging a historically abysmal 3.1 YPC, or turned around an offense averaging a league-worst 4.5 yards per play? Not likely. Of every defensive starter from the final roster of '12, we retained all of the possible ones aside from four. Although Upshaw technically started in the SuperBowl, Kruger deserves a mention. He had two solid seasons in Cleveland under a massive contract before recently being released. He was replaced by Elvis Dumervil, who immediately resupplied the loss in pass rushing production and was arguably an upgrade over Kruger. Ellerbe was released by Miami two seasons after his lucrative contract. He was replaced by Smith, who played at a near Pro-Bowl level for two seasons and was a clear upgrade over Ellerbe. Both Ellerbe and Kruger are currently starting for New Orleans and contributing to their below-average defense. Ed Reed had a less-than-stellar stint in Houston before signing with New York after his mid-season release. He's currently coaching for Buffalo. Bernard Pollard went on to have one solid season in Tennessee before being released. He's currently out of the league. He was replaced by James Ihedigbo, who had a rock solid campaign in '13 and was at worst a push of a replacement. Cary Williams went on to struggle in Philadelphia and Seattle. He's currently out of the league. If you're still sour about the loss of Boldin, it's partly understandable. But God help you if you feel that parting with Ellerbe, Kruger, Williams, Pollard and Reed was the loss of something special, especially considering that we replaced almost all of them with either on-par replacements or upgrades. What were the key differences between the '12 and '14 rosters? We obviously had the leadership and motivation of Reed and Lewis. That being said, as far as talent and level of play are concerned, our QB play was as good as ever in '14. Our running game was more productive and effective in comparison. Our WR play was roughly a push between the loss of Boldin and the addition of Smith Sr. Our TE and FB play were basically just that as well. Our OL was arguably more talented. Our front seven was significantly better in '14. Our safeties were at worst on par with the unit of '12. Our CBs were a downgrade due to the loss of Graham. Statistically, we had the 12th highest ranked offense as compared to the 16th ranked in '12, and we also had the 8th highest ranked defense as compares to the 17th ranked in '12.

 The significant issue between the two units was injuries. We sent 19 (!) players to I.R. in '14. Two of them were Wagner and Smith. We were somehow able to overcome the insertion of James Hurst in the playoffs, and you can say what you wish about loading up on CBs, but we lost five CBs to the I.R. that season. That's incredibly difficult to plan for, and it was arguably the difference in the game with New England. Rashaan Melvin was starting in the place of Smith, and he allowed an unfathomable 14 receptions on 18 targets for 210 yards and 2 TDs. That almost wasn't surprisingly considering how far we were forced to go down the totem pole. The truth is, at worst, we had a roster in '14 that was equally as capable of going on a run as the one in '12. You could easily make a cast that our team was better in '14 as far as talent and coaching goes. Most of the starters from '12 that weren't on the '14 roster were either retired or would've played their last snap before our final postseason appearance that season. We slipped up in part due to the element of chance, that being injuries, which can happen to any team. Personally, I find the notion that we lost something special to be largely unfounded and almost comical.

[rmcjacket23]

27 minutes ago, -Truth- said:

 

 The significant issue between the two units was injuries. We sent 19 (!) players to I.R. in '14. Two of them were Wagner and Smith. We were somehow able to overcome the insertion of James Hurst in the playoffs, and you can say what you wish about loading up on CBs, but we lost five CBs to the I.R. that season. That's incredibly difficult to plan for, and it was arguably the difference in the game with New England. Rashaan Melvin was starting in the place of Smith, and he allowed an unfathomable 14 receptions on 18 targets for 210 yards and 2 TDs. That almost wasn't surprisingly considering how far we were forced to go down the totem pole. The truth is, at worst, we had a roster in '14 that was equally as capable of going on a run as the one in '12. You could easily make a cast that our team was better in '14 as far as talent and coaching goes. Most of the starters from '12 that weren't on the '14 roster were either retired or would've played their last snap before our final postseason appearance that season. We slipped up in part due to the element of chance, that being injuries, which can happen to any team. Personally, I find the notion that we lost something special to be largely unfounded and almost comical.

I personally think the injury thing is a bit overblown. For starters, in reference to the 2014 team, the IR list was a lot more "quantity" than it was "quality".

Jimmy still played the 1st half of the season (8 games), and Wagner played the first 11 games. So you're getting a half a season or more out of both of those guys. 

Sure, we lost five corners to IR. And among them were guys like Danny Gorrer, Asa Jackson, Tramain Jacobs, and Aaron Ross... not exactly world beaters. Maybe they were a little better than somebody like Rashaan Melvin, but its not that far off. 

The reality of injuries is simple... good teams can overcome most injuries. An injury to somebody like Flacco is a death blow, but the 2014 team is proof enough that you can win playoff games without your best corner and your two starting tackles. 

Heck, the 2012 Ravens that won a SB got only 6 games from Lardarius Webb (our best corner), we were missing Suggs for 8 games (coming off a major injury after being the DPOY), and we played 10 games without Ray Lewis. At one stretch, we played three straight games without Ray or Ellerbe (who was playing great at the time). And we still managed to win a SB. 

 

[kjbmore]

1 hour ago, -Truth- said:

I've seen the Bernard Pollard tweet floated around about Baltimore paying for breaking up something special too early after the SuperBowl run. This was at times passed along with agreement in Pollard's mind-numbing theory. With that in mind, I'm genuinely curious as to what specifically was disassembled. Let's take a look at the difference between the 2012 and 2014 playoff teams.

Offensively, Joe Flacco started on both playoff teams. He enjoyed arguably his best year in 2014 under Gary Kubiak. Ray Rice was retained until the controversy and hasn't played a snap since. He was replaced by Justin Forsett, who rushed for over 1,200 yards that year with the league's highest YPC at RB. Torrey Smith started on both teams. We retained Vonta Leach until his retirement after the 2013 season. He was replaced with Kyle Juszczyk. Entirely different styles, but both were certainly capable FBs. We traded away Anquan Boldin for peanuts in an attempt to sign another FA, a regrettable move in my eyes. With that in mind, we likely wouldn't have courted Steve Smith Sr. into a back up role in the following offseason, so it at least worked out in that sense. Smith Sr. was coming off of a quality 1,000 yard campaign in the regular season of '14. Dennis Pitta was retained but was unavailable due to the injury. Owen Daniels played admirably in his absence. On the OL, Kelechi Osemele and Marshal Yanda started on both teams. We replaced the retired Matt Birk with Jeremy Zuttah. We replaced the perpetually-struggling Michael Oher with Ricky Wagner, one of the better RTs in the league in '14 before the Lisfranc. We traded Bryant McKinnie after an awful start to '13, and he was replaced with Eugene Monroe.

Defensively, we replaced the retired Ma'ake Kemoeatu with Brandon Williams. Haloti Ngata started on both teams. We replaced Arthur Jones, who's struggled mightily in Indianapolis after landing a significant contract, with Timmy Jernigan. Terrell Suggs started on both teams. We replaced Paul Kruger with Elvis Dumervil and Pernell McPhee. The duo of Ray Lewis, retired, and Dannell Ellerbe, struggling mightily in Miami after signing a massive contract, were swapped out with C.J. Mosley and Daryl Smith. Williams was an elite NT at the time, Mosley was a Pro-Bowler and DRoY runner-up. Jernigan and Smith put forth above-average seasons and we had the league's best pass rushing corps at the time between Suggs, Dumervil and McPhee. Courtney Upshaw was used on running downs in both years. The duo of Ed Reed and Bernard Pollard were swapped out with Will Hill and Darian Stewart. I would've personally loved to retain Reed considering that he's my all-time favorite player, though his level of play had trailed off. Pollard was released after being routinely exposed in coverage during the SuperBowl. Hill was an upgrade over Pollard, and a case could be made for Stewart as well. Corey Graham went on to play well for Buffalo so his loss was felt. Jimmy Smith was on both teams, though his injury in '14 was a costly one.

Our entire ST unit carried over, including Jacoby Jones. Onto the assessment.

Of every offensive starter from the SuperBowl roster of '12, we retained all of the possible ones coming into '13 but one, Boldin. His loss was felt, but would his presence alone have helped the offense overcome a dreadful performance from the OL that returned 4 starters, masked a running game that was averaging a historically abysmal 3.1 YPC, or turned around an offense averaging a league-worst 4.5 yards per play? Not likely. Of every defensive starter from the final roster of '12, we retained all of the possible ones aside from four. Although Upshaw technically started in the SuperBowl, Kruger deserves a mention. He had two solid seasons in Cleveland under a massive contract before recently being released. He was replaced by Elvis Dumervil, who immediately resupplied the loss in pass rushing production and was arguably an upgrade over Kruger. Ellerbe was released by Miami two seasons after his lucrative contract. He was replaced by Smith, who played at a near Pro-Bowl level for two seasons and was a clear upgrade over Ellerbe. Both Ellerbe and Kruger are currently starting for New Orleans and contributing to their below-average defense. Ed Reed had a less-than-stellar stint in Houston before signing with New York after his mid-season release. He's currently coaching for Buffalo. Bernard Pollard went on to have one solid season in Tennessee before being released. He's currently out of the league. He was replaced by James Ihedigbo, who had a rock solid campaign in '13 and was at worst a push of a replacement. Cary Williams went on to struggle in Philadelphia and Seattle. He's currently out of the league. If you're still sour about the loss of Boldin, it's partly understandable. But God help you if you feel that parting with Ellerbe, Kruger, Williams, Pollard and Reed was the loss of something special, especially considering that we replaced almost all of them with either on-par replacements or upgrades. What were the key differences between the '12 and '14 rosters? We obviously had the leadership and motivation of Reed and Lewis. That being said, as far as talent and level of play are concerned, our QB play was as good as ever in '14. Our running game was more productive and effective in comparison. Our WR play was roughly a push between the loss of Boldin and the addition of Smith Sr. Our TE and FB play were basically just that as well. Our OL was arguably more talented. Our front seven was significantly better in '14. Our safeties were at worst on par with the unit of '12. Our CBs were a downgrade due to the loss of Graham. Statistically, we had the 12th highest ranked offense as compared to the 16th ranked in '12, and we also had the 8th highest ranked defense as compares to the 17th ranked in '12.

 The significant issue between the two units was injuries. We sent 19 (!) players to I.R. in '14. Two of them were Wagner and Smith. We were somehow able to overcome the insertion of James Hurst in the playoffs, and you can say what you wish about loading up on CBs, but we lost five CBs to the I.R. that season. That's incredibly difficult to plan for, and it was arguably the difference in the game with New England. Rashaan Melvin was starting in the place of Smith, and he allowed an unfathomable 14 receptions on 18 targets for 210 yards and 2 TDs. That almost wasn't surprisingly considering how far we were forced to go down the totem pole. The truth is, at worst, we had a roster in '14 that was equally as capable of going on a run as the one in '12. You could easily make a cast that our team was better in '14 as far as talent and coaching goes. Most of the starters from '12 that weren't on the '14 roster were either retired or would've played their last snap before our final postseason appearance that season. We slipped up in part due to the element of chance, that being injuries, which can happen to any team. Personally, I find the notion that we lost something special to be largely unfounded and almost comical.

How about the other half of the comment - now HE has to coach and he can't or something along those lines.

Jury's out, see how we finish up this season but other than 2014 - we're not doing much since all those guys retired and we're burning through high draft picks, surely the coach has some input into who we draft.

Yes half our team was injured last year but we were still losing - before we lost everybody and the fact we are so exposed by key injuries is also an indictment on the front office and the coaching staff, no forward planning, so heavily dependent on key players - Freakin patriots shipped out their 2 best players on defence lost 2 studs on Offense and still whooped us.

We could of grabbed Dwight Freeney last year after Suggs went down, we grabbed Jason Babin, who's the genius making these decisions - maybe they wanted better draft positioning.

Edited December 14, 2016 by kjbmore

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

How about the other half of the comment - now HE has to coach and he can't or something along those lines.

Jury's out, see how we finish up this season but other than 2014 - we're not doing much since all those guys retired and we're burning through high draft picks, surely the coach has some input into who we draft.

Yes half our team was injured last year but we were still losing - before we lost everybody and the fact we are so exposed by key injuries is also an indictment on the front office and the coaching staff, no forward planning, so heavily dependent on key players - Freakin patriots shipped out their 2 best players on defence lost 2 studs on Offense and still whooped us.

We could of grabbed Dwight Freeney last year after Suggs went down, we grabbed Jason Babin, who's the genius making these decisions - maybe they wanted better draft positioning.

LOL, he's been the coach here for 9 years and he's going to be back for a 10th. The jury isn't out on anything.

The only jury that is out is the jury of fan opinion, which doesn't have the power over anything. Its like being on the jury of a kangaroo court of five year olds.