Week 14: The Good, the Bad, the Ugly discussion/rant Patriots edition

[terps85]

15 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't want to hear it's all over the place. I want to hear about who the players are.

Logan Mankins is the most recent one that comes to mind.  Trading away players unlikely to re-sign like Jones and Collins is also something he consistently does.

[Militant X 1]

13 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

Guys, we're playing the Eagles, the Steelers and the Bengals. Let's not count the Ravens out yet. The Eagles aren't playing for anything and the Ravens have already beat the Steelers and Bengals once- so it's by definition not "impossible". It's going to be extremely difficult- especially if Jimmy is out for the rest of the season. But the Patriots are easily a lot better than any of the other teams that the Ravens will play and considering how many teams have looked stupid against the Patriots this year, I don't think it's worth dwelling on too much. There's a lot that we'll learn this week as far as injuries and potential cuts, so let's just see what happens. 

To me it's not about counting them "out," per se but can we count "on" them to get the job done?  That's very suspect to me at the moment!

Their beating the Steelers and Bengals once already were both home games.  Now, they have to travel and get those "W's" on the road...far more difficult....as we saw last night.  The reality is that these Ravens are presently 2-4 in road games.  Just saying!

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, terps85 said:

Logan Mankins is the most recent one that comes to mind.  Trading away players unlikely to re-sign like Jones and Collins is also something he consistently does.

 

9 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, not sure about the whole "produce just as much" aspect, but he's pretty well known for moving on from players earlier than most teams would have. In particular, he's also pretty good at trading away players who he knows he won't retain when they hit FA. Namely, Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins, who within recent years, were considered to be arguably the two best defensive players on the team.

I mean you have to admit it takes quite the sack of marbles to trade away a player like Collins, who's a key part of  your defense, in a year where you're clearly a heavy favorite to win a SB. 

I mean to me, it would be the equivalent of the Ravens trading away Paul Kruger during the 2012 season while they're trying to make a big time playoff run. Sure, you get draft pick or picks for him, but you're losing a player who could play a big difference in whether you win a Lombardi or not.

Some of his examples are valid though. Guys like Seymour were perceived as to have been let go a good year or two earliest than they should have or most teams would have. Welker is also a similar type example.

I know the example of Collins and Jones is one that fits trading away players or cutting them before anyone wants to (several years too early in this case), but they haven't found a way to replace the production of either. The Patriots have a highly unathletic linebacker core now and they have one of the worst pass rushes of any major contender. 

Welker wasn't really "let go". The Patriots offered him a bigger deal than he got in Denver, BUT he declined it because the incentives were perceived as way too difficult to reach, so he didn't feel he'd earn the full amount. 

I'm not even sure they "effectively replaced" Logan Mankins. They had some pretty porous interior line play that season.

So, I mean, I guess they let guys go early, but they certainly aren't routinely matching their production.

[Edug27]

26 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't want to hear it's all over the place. I want to hear about who the players are.

If you were listening, you would have heard the 4 names I gave you.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Edug27

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, Edug27 said:

If you were listening, you would have hear the 4 names I gave you.

I listened, but didn't hear how they effectively replaced their production.

And some of those (Moss) were let go because they wanted it, not because the Patriots did.

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

 

I know the example of Collins and Jones is one that fits trading away players or cutting them before anyone wants to (several years too early in this case), but they haven't found a way to replace the production of either. The Patriots have a highly unathletic linebacker core now and they have one of the worst pass rushes of any major contender. 

Welker wasn't really "let go". The Patriots offered him a bigger deal than he got in Denver, BUT he declined it because the incentives were perceived as way too difficult to reach, so he didn't feel he'd earn the full amount. 

I'm not even sure they "effectively replaced" Logan Mankins. They had some pretty porous interior line play that season.

So, I mean, I guess they let guys go early, but they certainly aren't routinely matching their production.

Yeah I mean I suppose you can't really definitively prove or disprove whether they were able to replace a certain player. Though in a macro sense, they have the ability to move on from a seemingly key part of their team and still appear to be just as good on the football field, even if its not specifically at that position.

[Cawtious]

13 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

Matt "5'9 SS who can't tackle" Elam

Weddle took that on.  He came screaming up for run support, but could not get back to help over the top on the PA fake. 

[Edug27]

27 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yeah I mean I suppose you can't really definitively prove or disprove whether they were able to replace a certain player. Though in a macro sense, they have the ability to move on from a seemingly key part of their team and still appear to be just as good on the football field, even if its not specifically at that position.

Right. I edited my post to include " And maybe their replacements don't produce just as much, but the team doesn't take a hit because of it.... That's probably a better way of stating it "

 

[jboy19]

46 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

To me it's not about counting them "out," per se but can we count "on" them to get the job done?  That's very suspect to me at the moment!

Their beating the Steelers and Bengals once already were both home games.  Now, they have to travel and get those "W's" on the road...far more difficult....as we saw last night.  The reality is that these Ravens are presently 2-4 in road games.  Just saying!

You aren't wrong haha, it'll be extremely difficult. They'll need to step up... a lot. 

[rmw10]

 

[Tank 92]

Just now, rmw10 said:

 

bye bye Devin.

[redrum52]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

 

About DAMN time.  Hester has served absolutely no purpose on this team and though I hate wishing for someone to be fired... It needs to be done.  No idea why it's taken this long.

[codizzle]

Hey it only took him completely killing momentum multiple times in a single game on MNF to get replaced 

[redlobster]

6 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

 

work blocks this but I assume it says Hester was cut?

[redrum52]

1 minute ago, codizzle said:

Hey it only took him completely killing momentum multiple times in a single game on MNF to get replaced 

I can't understand why certain players bad performances are tolerated and others aren't?  Hester has been abysmal for weeks yet we've seen other guys benched for much less.  Do any of you think Bill would have let this go on this long?

[rmw10]

Just now, redlobster said:

work blocks this but I assume it says Hester was cut?

Camp is back on the 53.  No corresponding move, but widely assumed to be Hester.

[redrum52]

Just now, redlobster said:

work blocks this but I assume it says Hester was cut?

Camp was promoted to the active roster.

[Drew P]

7 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

 

Hip Hip hooray

[PurpleCity5]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

Camp is back on the 53.  No corresponding move, but widely assumed to be Hester.

I don't want to sound harsh but its about damn time. Hester is becoming a liability honestly. Some guys at least push up to get the fair catch but this guy just seems to worried. 

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I don't want to sound harsh but its about damn time. Hester is becoming a liability honestly. Some guys at least push up to get the fair catch but this guy just seems to worried. 

It's weird because it's clearly all a mental thing with him.  When the ball is in his hands, he's actually fairly good on returns.  Obviously not what he once was, but he gets a decent amount of yards every time.  It's the process of him actually getting the ball in his hands that's the problem.  For whatever reason, he has 0 confidence when fielding the ball.

[BmoreBird22]

19 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

I can't understand why certain players bad performances are tolerated and others aren't?  Hester has been abysmal for weeks yet we've seen other guys benched for much less.  Do any of you think Bill would have let this go on this long?

Well, he kinda has with Cyrus Jones 

[codizzle]

Here's a game to play.. can you spot how many glaring problems there are in this one screenshot 

(ninkovich sack play)

[redlobster]

25 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Camp is back on the 53.  No corresponding move, but widely assumed to be Hester.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the ravens cut Hester (who I thought never should have been signed)  and he goes to NE to replace their failing returner Cyrus Jones ? :-)

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, codizzle said:

Here's a game to play.. can you spot how many glaring problems there are in this one screenshot 

(ninkovich sack play)

This is hilarious all the way around.

[rmw10]

 

[Moderator 3]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

 

Too bad this didn't happen weeks ago.  I guess we were waiting to see if Camp could survive a few practices.

[Deflated Football]

6 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

 

Hallelujah. It's been real Devin

[rmw10]

4 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

Too bad this didn't happen weeks ago.  I guess we were waiting to see if Camp could survive a few practices.

Got a ton of leeway because of his name.  I really do hate to see guys lose their jobs, but this one absolutely had to happen.

[terps85]

16 minutes ago, codizzle said:

Here's a game to play.. can you spot how many glaring problems there are in this one screenshot 

(ninkovich sack play)

Wow.  The protection speaks for itself, but there is exactly 0 cumulative yards of separation there too.

[mg90]

I could live with the result comfortably if Jimmy wasn't lost.  Especially given that we finally cut ties with Hester.  I've never been so afraid of the other teams punting in my life!