Week 14: The Good, the Bad, the Ugly discussion/rant Patriots edition

[HoldingCall]

Good: The team got within 3 before losing it permanently
Bad: The game wasn't as close as the score
Ugly: The one play touchdown

[Drew P]

I really can't fathom that Hester offers more than Camp or even Keenan.

Please stop that silly shotgun crap every single down its been played.

Get back to the i formation punch them in the mouth and set up the deep ball.

Deactivate Elam the rest of the season he continuously stumbles over his own two feet.

[OUravensfan]

Just now, Drew P said:

I really can't fathom that Hester offers more than Camp or even Keenan.

Please stop that silly shotgun crap every single down its been played.

Get back to the i formation punch them in the mouth and set up the deep ball.

Deactivate Elam the rest of the season he continuously stumbles over his own two feet.

Time for another OC change most likely next year, Trestman's system is broken 

[BmoreBird22]

3 minutes ago, Drew P said:

I really can't fathom that Hester offers more than Camp or even Keenan.

Please stop that silly shotgun crap every single down its been played.

Get back to the i formation punch them in the mouth and set up the deep ball.

Deactivate Elam the rest of the season he continuously stumbles over his own two feet.

That'll happen when you're surprised to see the player who is supposed to be there isn't.

[rmw10]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Also, I really don't understand how Joe can go from the play he had in Miami to the play he just had in New England.

And it's not just about not passing downfield (he took one pass over 10 yards in Miami). It's about the ball placement and his mechanics. In Miami, he stood in there and delivered dimes that were in front of the receivers and put at chest level to allow for YAC. In this game, passes were low, high, and behind, but rarely ever were they in a good position for YAC. He had a few good throws in the second half, but he was overwhelmingly bad in this game.

Flacco was bad last night.  The statline doesn't look terrible at first glance, but his mechanics were downright bad.

Edited December 13, 2016 by rmw10

[Tru11]

22 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I felt like Joe Flacco had an abysmal night, but I also don't feel that was entirely his fault. 

The Ravens ran the ball a grand total of four times in the first half and didn't run it a single time on their opening drive. I said all last week that a repeat of the Dolphins game was unlikely and the Ravens needed to stay committed to the run to be able to effectively beat their opponents with offense, not just defense. I think the abysmal showing was largely due to the fact that the Ravens showed no desire to run the ball. I think Marty would have rather just thrown the ball on every single play if Harbaugh wouldn't have eaten him alive for it. No balance there whatsoever. 

As far as Flacco goes though- check-down city and it was not working out for the offense. It was really frustrating to see Flacco look for like one second and quickly move through his reads, then just decide to check it down. The Patriots came in rushing three on 22% of drop backs and only blitzed 14 times, or about 25% of the time. Flacco was pressured on just 8 of his drop backs, good for 14%, the lowest in the league this week. If you work through your progressions that quickly and then just dump it off after a second, you're never going to give your receivers time to get open. The offensive line had a rough first couple drives, but they really came back in a strong way and gave Flacco time, but Flacco was just in total check-down mode. It was really frustrating to see him take shots down the field in the second half and get the offense going, but as soon as they hit the red zone, just little two yard passes that got blown up immediately.

And what was with that "hurry up" offense. The Ravens took the play clock down to five every single time and then Flacco would throw a two yard pass that would get immediately stuffed and then take the clock down to five seconds, again. Zero sense of urgency and zero sense to the play calling and decision making. And speaking of decision making, yes, I do put a lot of that safety on Flacco. The defense loaded up the box and shifted and Flacco didn't make a single attempt to slide the protection or adjust the direction of the play. They shifted to the side that the Ravens were running, too. And no, I'm not saying that they should have checked into a run, but at least make an adjustment.

On a positive note from the offense, Kenneth Dixon runs so hard and with so much violence. I don't think I saw the first man take him down a single time last night. He just had a drive and desire that the rest of the offense lacked. He was going to fight for every single yard and make sure to punish whoever dared to touch him. He's going to be a good one for a very long time here soon.

Defensively, nothing hurts more than the loss of Jimmy Smith. I think he's up there with Weddle and Suggs as the top players that you cannot lose if you want to remain competitive. Just what he allows you to do with your coverages and with the safety help over the top is invaluable. 

The Ravens pass rush was actually pretty decent today and did a generally good job of flustering Brady. I think they pressured him on over 35% of his drop backs, according to PFF. However, PFF also said all three of Brady's touchdowns were under pressure, so that leaves me a bit confused on what exactly getting pressure is because on all three of his touchdowns, the pocket got pushed back, but Brady's mechanics were never compromised and he didn't have to move off his spot. When the Ravens actually moved Brady off of his spot, good things generally happened, like the Weddle interception and intentional grounding calls. Not sure I'd classify any of the three touchdowns as being under pressure, but that's just me.

The issue with the coverage was two fold. The first part was that the Patriots used a lot of stacked and unbalanced formations, so pressing or getting your DB's close to the line of scrimmage wasn't going to happen. Brady took advantage of a lot of clearing routes and hit his men underneath for big YAC opportunities. Second was some of the mismatches that they took advantage of, like having Powers or Webb on Bennett or having Mosley out one on one with James White. Mosley has been excellent in coverage this year, but I don't even care if you're Luke Kuechly- you don't leave him one on one with a running back with the receiving skills of White. Still very impressive that he ran him down. 

For as much praise as Zach Orr got, he was getting worked. He allowed all six throws in his coverage to be completed to six different receivers and a touchdown in which he never located the ball. Orr had great position, but without getting his head around, he had no chance of stopping that touchdown to Bennett. 

Also, for as much as people want to roast Elam, that touchdown wasn't on him. I know he's the number one scapegoat, but if you take time to set aside your bias, you can see he was caught off guard 100% by Hogan running free. That was on Weddle.

Also, I know this is going to be really hard for some to wrap their heads around, but give the defense a lot of props for keeping the Ravens in this game at all. They forced three four and outs, four punts, and an interception in the first half. Despite the offense surrendering a safety, they came right back out and got a three and out. 

The Ravens held the ball for a grand total of 5 minutes in the first quarter and had one drive (3:09, a punt) go for longer than 2:10, 2:20 in the first half. The defense was out there for seven drives against a top five offense, and despite no help from the offense, they really performed valiantly. 

The ugliest has to remain the hypocrites on this form.

I really loved reading about how the Patriots three man rush was so genius because it put eight back in coverage to smother the passing lanes, but if Dean Pees does it, it's idiotic because the Ravens don't get pressure and the quarterback just has so much time to work through his reads. 

all that needs to be said.

[jimmypowder]

26 minutes ago, AsianRice said:

our playoff picture looks very very slim......

We still control our destiny. Three straight wins and we are division champs as we have the tiebreakers. 

Certainly this will be hard. The Pitt game will likely decide it. 

 

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Flacco was bad last night.  The statline doesn't look terrible at first glance, but his mechanics were downright bad.

It's really funny that he said they wouldn't be intimidated by New England, but then you go out and play like that. Sure looked intimidated.

[jimmypowder]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It's really funny that he said they wouldn't be intimidated by New England, but then you go out and play like that. Sure looked intimidated.

True enough. 

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It's really funny that he said they wouldn't be intimidated by New England, but then you go out and play like that. Sure looked intimidated.

Yep.  He was scared from the first snap.  The pressure wasn't even that great but he was still panicking in the pocket and looking for the checkdown almost immediately.  I still like Flacco obviously, but he's going to need some serious work this offseason in efforts to get him back to his normal self.

[OUravensfan]

3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It's really funny that he said they wouldn't be intimidated by New England, but then you go out and play like that. Sure looked intimidated.

Your analysis was good, the weakness to the 3 man rush is that you have more time to find the soft spots, Flacco resorted to the check down too quickly as you said. We would of forced them out of it if we hit a few plays because of it. 

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, rmw10 said:

Yep.  He was scared from the first snap.  The pressure wasn't even that great but he was still panicking in the pocket and looking for the checkdown almost immediately.  I still like Flacco obviously, but he's going to need some serious work this offseason in efforts to get him back to his normal self.

I'm still of the mindset that you have to seriously consider a quarterback in like the first three picks, especially having a third round comp, if the board falls right. I don't advocate for reaching, but if someone like Luke Falk starts to fall, I jump.

[Cillmatic]

Maybe we can luck into a Dak Prescott or something.

[OUravensfan]

2 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

Maybe we can luck into a Dak Prescott or something.

I'd rather have Dallas's O line than a Dak Prescott

[BmoreBird22]

3 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

Your analysis was good, the weakness to the 3 man rush is that you have more time to find the soft spots, Flacco resorted to the check down too quickly as you said. We would of forced them out of it if we hit a few plays because of it. 

It was really frustrating because PFF said he was under pressure on 14 of his passes, but after seeing their definition of pressure, it makes me think that percentage was lower and he was moved off his spot far less. Flacco just was in too much of a rush.

[balfan23]

The Good: Capitalizing on the gifts that NE gave us in order to make it a game. People can say they gave us 2 TDs, but we still had to get it in the end zone, which has been far from a guarantee with this offense over the course of the year. 

The Bad: The ONLY TDs we could score were the ones that we started our possession in the red zone. Squandered 2 massive plays (the romp by Juice and the bomb to Perriman) and got 3 points combined out of what needed to be 14. 

The Ugly: The #1 defense in the league got shredded. True, the offense didn't inspire anything, but the D ... while they held up on a few possessions had other possessions where they simply had no answer for what was coming at them. You tell me before the game that Brady is going throw for 400+ yards and I'll tell you we're looking at a loss, no matter what the offense would do. 

[rmw10]

7 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

Your analysis was good, the weakness to the 3 man rush is that you have more time to find the soft spots, Flacco resorted to the check down too quickly as you said. We would of forced them out of it if we hit a few plays because of it. 

That safety valve for Flacco is a blessing and a curse.  Sometimes he uses those checkdowns so well, but other times, he's way too quick to move to that option.  He's not letting anything develop down field.

[rmw10]

Two moves I think have to be made in the next couple of days:

 

1.  Hester cut, Campanaro promoted

I think the time has come.  It should have come weeks ago, but the support has been too strong for Hester.  I just don't see how you can move forward with him after the atrocity that was last night

 

2.  Taliaferro to IR, Will Davis signed

This could be another CB, but on a short week, I think Will Davis makes sense.  We're going to need another CB with Jimmy's injury, and Davis knows the defense and can slot right in for the time being.  Maybe you can look elsewhere next week, but for now, I don't see a better option than Davis unless they like Robertson Daniel on the PS.

Edited December 13, 2016 by rmw10

[rmcjacket23]

28 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Also, I really don't understand how Joe can go from the play he had in Miami to the play he just had in New England.

And it's not just about not passing downfield (he took one pass over 10 yards in Miami). It's about the ball placement and his mechanics. In Miami, he stood in there and delivered dimes that were in front of the receivers and put at chest level to allow for YAC. In this game, passes were low, high, and behind, but rarely ever were they in a good position for YAC. He had a few good throws in the second half, but he was overwhelmingly bad in this game.

Patriots took away his first read almost the entire night.

Has been the fatal flaw in Joe I've seen for his entire career. If you take away his primary option on a play, he becomes far more erratic and panics more than a lot of other QBs of his caliber do.

If you give him time and space, and his first read is available for most of the day, he will torch every team in this league. If you flood his passing lanes and take away his primary, he's a duck on a pond. 

[Edgar]

Ronnie Stanley was a great pick. O line generally played well as quarterback had plenty of time. I'm puzzled as to why it is we aren't running the ball...at east attempting to run the ball. 

Lawrence Guy had a nice game. Dixon is a difficult tackle and I thought West made good use of limited touches as well.

It seems that for the better part of the last four seasons, the philosophy offensively has been to throw first. I'll leave that there.

Joe made three or four tremendous throws. One that comes to mind is a sideline back shoulder throw to Smith in the fourth quarter. Unfortunately, his play outside of a few moments was erratic and not close to good.

He was shaken and skiddish in the pocket from the very first drive. He feels nonexistent pressure. As a result he isn't allowing time for middle routes and deep routes to come open and checks down to backs whether they are clear or not.

You can't get three points in the first half against the Patriots. You can't watch a defense force three punts and  mount one field goal attempt.That's on the staff, that's on the offense and squarely on Joe. (It's also on Hester and the front office that brought him in).

Brady identifies blitzes as well anyone. Especially in the red zone you can tell he sees them a mile away. Think we could just about scrap that.

 

[January J]

I know this may be an overreaction but I truly believe DEVIN HESTER was half the reason we lost this game. I just don't get it anymore. How many times does this guy have to screw us before we bench him or cut him? Our defense gets a three and out..he fields a punt and falls down and nearly muffs it. Our defense stops them again and forces another punt- giving us the opportunity to jump on them early ( which you HAVE to do against a team like new England) and he gets scared and jumps out the way and gets us pinned inside the one resulting in a safety and giving them complete momentum. I know a lot of other things transpired that caused us to lose this game- but letting new england get a jump on us like that is  just asking for it. He's done it all year long - looks fine on kickoffs ( although he uneccesarily brings it out often there too) but looks completely timid returning punts. I just don't see how a vet of his caliber could make such poor decisions. Injuries are no excuse. He's a HAS BEEN and he's got to go. Im sick and tired of worrying during every single punt that he's either going to muff it or get us pinned inside the 3 yard line ( which he did a few other times last night as well, and has done all year) how much slack does this guy have? How many times does he have to screw up? Are we waiting for him to cost us a trip to the playoffs? While you got a perfectly good option on the sideline in street clothes who could also offer us something in the slot.. For those who say camps injured too much Hell send Webb out there everytime and just let him catch the damn thing. Sorry for the rant I'm just fed up. I know there are several other things to complain about as well ( the dump offs, the lack of pressure,  the numerous false starts etc etc.)- this has just been bothering me since about week 3 or 4 when it was obvious Hester was not the same player anymore. Don't know what these guys are seeing but its plain as day. Make a move before its too late for the love of god.

Edited December 13, 2016 by January J

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Patriots took away his first read almost the entire night.

Has been the fatal flaw in Joe I've seen for his entire career. If you take away his primary option on a play, he becomes far more erratic and panics more than a lot of other QBs of his caliber do.

If you give him time and space, and his first read is available for most of the day, he will torch every team in this league. If you flood his passing lanes and take away his primary, he's a duck on a pond. 

The Patriots are absolutely the best team in the league in taking away your favorite option or play. 

Flacco was unprepared.

[jimmypowder]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

The Patriots are absolutely the best team in the league in taking away your favorite option or play. 

Flacco was unprepared.

The whole team was unprepared. 

One of Harbaugh's worst coaching games as a Ravens head coach. 

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by jimmypowder

[rmcjacket23]

38 minutes ago, edthehead said:

Why would anybody care what Bernard Pollard says again? 

[OUravensfan]

Just now, January J said:

I know this may be an overreaction but I truly believe DEVIN HESTER was half the reason we lost this game. I just don't get it anymore. How many times does this guy have to screw us before we bench him or cut him? Our defense gets a three and out..he fields a punt and falls down and nearly muffs it. Our defense stops them again and forces another punt- giving us the opportunity to jump on them early ( which you HAVE to do against a team like new England) and he gets scared and jumps out the way and gets us pinned inside the one resulting in a safety and giving them complete momentum. I know a lot of other things transpired that caused us to lose this game- but letting new england get a jump on us like that  just asking for it. He's done it all year long - looks fine on kickoffs ( although he uneccesarily brings it out often there too) but looks completely timid returning punts. I just don't see how a vet of his caliber could make such poor decisions. Injuries are no excuse. He's a HAS BEEN and he's got to go. Im sick and tired of worrying during every single punt that he's either going to muff it or get us pinned inside the 3 yard line ( which he did a few other times last night as well, and has done all year) how much slack does this guy have? How many times does he have to screw up? Are we waiting for him to cost us a trip to the playoffs? While you got a perfectly good option on the sideline in street clothes who could also offer us something in the slot.. For those who say camps injured too much Hell send Webb out there everytime and just let him catch the damn thing. Sorry for the rant I'm just fed up. I know there are several other things to complain about as well ( the dump offs, the lack if pressure,  the numerous false starts etc etc.)- this has just been bothering me since about week 3 or 4 when it was obvious Hester was not the same player anymore. Don't know what these guys ate seeing but its plain as day. Make a move before its too late for the love of god.

Hester is awful, just waiting for the cut notification.

[TuckerTime9]

Everyone's so quick to blame Flacco it's laughable, where do you want him to throw when his receivers can't get seperation? His pass to Breshad was gorgeous and that back shoulder throw to SSS down the sideline was great too. When his guys aren't getting open he has to check down. The real issue is lack of any creativity whatsoever in the playbook. We probably have the most vanilla playbook in the NFL. 

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

The Patriots are absolutely the best team in the league in taking away your favorite option or play. 

Flacco was unprepared.

So were the receivers. Horrendous game from our receivers last night. Dropped passes, no field awareness, no anticipation or desire to attack the football. They were equally as bad as Joe was in my eyes, and he was pretty bad.

There were times where I briefly considered that Mike Wallace may have bet a lot of money on the Pats covering the spread and he was throwing the game. That's how bad I thought he played. It was like Doug Baldwin vs the Packers bad.

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, TuckerTime9 said:

Everyone's so quick to blame Flacco it's laughable, where do you want him to throw when his receivers can't get seperation? His pass to Breshad was gorgeous and that back shoulder throw to SSS down the sideline was great too. When his guys aren't getting open he has to check down. The real issue is lack of any creativity whatsoever in the playbook. We probably have the most vanilla playbook in the NFL. 

When you're throwing in like 1.5 seconds and going to the checkdown as soon as you see your first read is covered, you aren't giving your receivers time to get separation. Flacco wasn't getting pressured often at all. He could afford to sit in there and wait for players to come open.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, TuckerTime9 said:

Everyone's so quick to blame Flacco it's laughable, where do you want him to throw when his receivers can't get seperation? His pass to Breshad was gorgeous and that back shoulder throw to SSS down the sideline was great too. When his guys aren't getting open he has to check down. The real issue is lack of any creativity whatsoever in the playbook. We probably have the most vanilla playbook in the NFL. 

Mostly because our personnel are vanilla. Joe is vanilla and so are our receivers and running game.

Joe wasn't the only problem last night, but his mechanics were garbage despite having time to throw consistently, and he was highly inaccurate on what I perceived to be easy NFL throws for his skill set.

 

[January J]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Why would anybody care what Bernard Pollard says again? 

My thoughts exactly. He's obviously salty, who cares. Take a seat dude.