Harrison V Ray

[SuggsNotDrugs]

Take a look at the numbers. You can't hate on Ray, you can't deny his greatness, and you definitely can't even try to argue that Harrison is a better LB!!


2008 stats

James Harrison (age 30)
101 Tackles (67 solo, 34 assists), 16 sacks, 1 safety, 3 Passes Defended, 1 INT, 7 Forced Fumbles

Ray Lewis (age 33)
117 Tackles (85 solo, 32 assists), 3.5 sacks, 9 passes defended, 3 INT, 2 Forced Fumbles

Harrison had a better season, but Ray was still in top form and putting up awesome numbers. Unlike Steelers fans I can show some respect to rival teams and players. Harrison had a darn good season, but Ray isn't washed up, he isn't slowing down, and history shows he's a much better LB, look and see.

2007 stats

James Harrison (29)
98 tackles (72, 22), 8.5 sacks, 3 Passes Defended, 1 INT, 7 Forced Fumbles

Ray Lewis (32)
120 tackles (82 solo, 38 assists), 10 Passes Defended, 2 INT, 1 TD 2 Forced Fumbles

Ray Lewis is a MLB meaning he isn't sent on blitzes nearly as much. Harrison is a blind side blitzer for most QBs, so he may get sacks and FF, but he doesn't score, he can't cover like Ray can, and he sure as shoot can't put a hurting on fools like Ray can. Lets compare Harrison's MVP season with just one of Ray's amazing seasons. (by the way I could only use two seasons for Harrison because he's been a non-factor most of his career)


James Harrison (age 30) 2008
101 Tackles (67 solo, 34 assists), 16 sacks, 1 safety, 3 Passes Defended, 1 INT, 7 Forced Fumbles
Defensive MVP (stolen from Ware or Reed)

Ray Lewis 2003 (age 28)
161 tackles (120 solo, 41 assists), 1.5 sacks, 7 Passes Defended, 6 INT, 1 TD, 2 Forced Fumbles

(by the way this isn't even his MVP season!!!)





all stats provided by NFL.com

[BloodRaven]

Ray got more first team All-pro votes in their respective positions as well.

[YABOY]

isn't james harrison a little old to just be getting discovered

[SuggsNotDrugs]

that took forever to type up, but i get sick of the "he's old and washed up" excuses.

[BloodRaven]

Hes a pure pass-rusher overacheiving in a good system. Hes 30 now, so it took him long enough.

[McBoller]

[quote name='YABOY' post='135653' date='Jan 17 2009, 09:35 PM']isn't james harrison a little old to just be getting discovered[/quote]
yeah, and wasnt he on our team a few years back...

[Sizzle]

I am not saying Harrison is not good because he is great but they play totally different kinds of positions. James Harrison plays OLB and Ray plays MLB so you cant compare them like that plus these stats are misleading because Harrison has not been consistent every single year ray has and is a leader. To say harrison is better is just utter disrespect to ray lewis who is the face of this franchise which leads me to believe you are a troll or a bandwagon. sorry.

[SuggsNotDrugs]

yeah he was on our practice squad, because he's never been good enough to play on our team as a starter or even a back-up. He's got a great coordinator there, but he's there for pass rush, that's all he's good at, and he's only recently become good at it. He's been in Pitt for a while, and barely started until the last two seasons. He isn't a great tackler in the open field, he can't cover guys, he's specialized.

[ben4life]

Well, to say James Harrison has been a non-factor most of his career isn't really fair.
He didn't even get a shot as a starter until 2007, which for the last two years he has
been quite amazing! He was an undrafted free agent from a very small school.
His hard work and dedication is the only reason he is even playing. He has single-handedly
changed games for us this season.

I also believe he can "put a hurting on fools", as it is noted he has benched 475 lbs!

I don't think Ray Lewis is "washed up", all those fools who say that would take him
on their team in a minute.

However, that doesn't mean James Harrison isn't a beast too!!!

[SuggsNotDrugs]

see you're not the kind of fan i'm talking about. you're realistic you understand that both are talented players. this was meant more for those fans who think harrison is now the greatest lb ever and ray lewis is a bum.

also benching weight doesn't count as jacking a fool, it's just jacking a weight, but that is a ton of weight lol

[WACKO4FLACC0]

Harrison is not better overall but this year is the only time that counts and Harrison is playing better because of his youth.... but Ray has much better leadership qualities and frankly is better overall package.

[ben4life]

also benching weight doesn't count as jacking a fool, it's just jacking a weight, but that is a ton of weight lol
[/quote]

That's true, just trying to make a point of how strong he is!!! LOL

[H8R]

[quote name='ben4life' post='135691' date='Jan 17 2009, 10:06 PM']also benching weight doesn't count as jacking a fool, it's just jacking a weight, but that is a ton of weight lol


That's true, just trying to make a point of how strong he is!!! LOL[/quote]


ok.... I bench 335 ( I weigh 235) and i'm nowhere near a pro. athlete. Kelly Gregg did well over 500 and Derrick Deese from the 9ers did almost 600... 475 isn't that great for a darn linebacker.

[beetus]

I hesitate to call a OLB like James Harrison and DeMarcus Ware linebackers, more like DEs. They both play in a 3-4 sceme, so most of the time, they have their fists in the dirt. Suggs is sort of the same way, but he's started to show more well-roundedness as a LB, making those INTs at Cleveland and Miami. Ray is a much better LB as it pertains to the traditional definition of LB.

[ben4life]

[quote name='H8R' post='135722' date='Jan 17 2009, 10:23 PM']ok.... I bench 335 ( I weigh 235) and i'm nowhere near a pro. athlete. Kelly Gregg did well over 500 and Derrick Deese from the 9ers did almost 600... 475 isn't that great for a darn linebacker.[/quote]

Yes, really it is. I would bet there isn't 5 linebackers in the NFL that bench that much!!

[PuRock]

I give respect, when respect is due. Harrison is no Ray Lewis, but he's a hell of a player. If I had to pick one guy on the Steelers that I don't mind, it's probably Harrison. As someone pointed out, Harrison isn't a MLB, so the stats are skewed. Harrison creates turnovers by getting pressure on the QB, that's his dig, and he's damn good at. He's made so many game changing plays this season, and one in particular against us, that probably cost us the game.

As far as it taking him long enough, the guy did it eventually, and that's all that matters.

[i82much]

Ray's numbers back in the day tended to be bigger b/c we used to have 4 down lineman, and it was his job to cover the entire middle of the field. Certainly age has something to do with the numbers going down but I think a lot more of it has to do with a change in his job description than a loss of ability. In fact his recent weight gain is really just another way of fitting his job description - with fewer down lineman he needs to be better at shedding blockers and can afford to give up some acceleration.

[Fred Sanford]

I saw Jeremiah Trotter, a linebacker, bench something like 575 at the Pro Bowl competition. He even beat out 6'7 330 lb. John Henderson.

Chad Hennings, that A-10 pilot DT on the Cowboys in the 90's, could bench something insane like 650 I think.

[Whacko4Flacco]

<no trolling please>

[flynismo]

[quote name='WACKO4FLACC0' post='135688' date='Jan 17 2009, 10:04 PM']Harrison is not better overall but this year is the only time that counts and Harrison is playing better because of his youth.... but Ray has much better leadership qualities and frankly is better overall package.[/quote]


[quote name='Whacko4Flacco' post='135832' date='Jan 18 2009, 01:48 AM']Harrison is by far the better LB. It's not even close. Ray Lewis wins the "Who's the loudest" contest. That's about it.[/quote]


Your alter ego?

[blackngolddigger]

They play different positions and have different responsibilities, so you can't really just compare stats.

Harrison is a great story, being cut so many times by the Ravens and Steelers.

Although I can still laugh at things like the [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XZDzOGFXts"]SNL Ray of Light skit[/url] from a couple years ago, seeing what other players have to say about him being such a great character and counselor to them has given me new respect for him. I still love to hate him, though.

Unless Harrison can play at this level until he's 40, there's just no comparing the two.

Ray has had a HOF career and James has worked hard and overcome some heavy odds to become a great special teams player and now has become a great OLB for two years. But it's just two years.

As someone mentioned earlier, a comparison between Suggs and Harrison would probably make more sense.

Hell, as fans, we're fortunate to have all of these guys to watch.

[ben4life]

[quote name='Fred Sanford' post='135825' date='Jan 18 2009, 01:31 AM']I saw Jeremiah Trotter, a linebacker, bench something like 575 at the Pro Bowl competition. He even beat out 6'7 330 lb. John Henderson.

Chad Hennings, that A-10 pilot DT on the Cowboys in the 90's, could bench something insane like 650 I think.[/quote]

Thanks for reminding me, maybe we'll see at the Pro Bowl since Harrison will be there. Oh and it was 475 at his rookie year, he
has since gotten stronger.

He can squat 590, but I'm sure that's not much either!

[ben4life]

Also, I believe in my original reply I was responding that James Harrison
is a "beast" as well as Ray Lewis and was able to "put a hurting on fools", as well.

I don't think I claimed him to be the strongest linebacker ever to play football,
point is, he IS very strong!

[MKdave]

I can't even believe this is being asked. Harrison has had one genuinely good year. Ray has consistently been among the top defenders, year in year out. If you ask me, Harrison is overrated.

I do respect his work ethic though. Good motor, and that bench press that people were talking about earlier, he did that in his rookie season, and no rookie LB has ever lifted more. He is insanely strong for his size. And that all comes from his work ethic.

[H8R]

What if I told you Sam Koch can almost bench 400 lbs...lol.. You're comparing a nice stint put together by Harrison, to a HOF TYPE CAREER FROM RAY LEWIS.

[MKdave]

[quote name='H8R' post='136049' date='Jan 18 2009, 03:39 PM']What if I told you Sam Koch can almost bench 400 lbs...lol.. You're comparing a nice stint put together by Harrison, to a HOF TYPE CAREER FROM RAY LEWIS.[/quote]

That would in no way surprise me. Sam Koch is a beast.

[Marc2k6]

[quote name='blackngolddigger' post='135960' date='Jan 18 2009, 07:28 AM']They play different positions and have different responsibilities, so you can't really just compare stats.

Harrison is a great story, being cut so many times by the Ravens and Steelers.

Although I can still laugh at things like the [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XZDzOGFXts"]SNL Ray of Light skit[/url] from a couple years ago, seeing what other players have to say about him being such a great character and counselor to them has given me new respect for him. I still love to hate him, though.

Unless Harrison can play at this level until he's 40, there's just no comparing the two.

Ray has had a HOF career and James has worked hard and overcome some heavy odds to become a great special teams player and now has become a great OLB for two years. But it's just two years.

As someone mentioned earlier, a comparison between Suggs and Harrison would probably make more sense.

Hell, as fans, we're fortunate to have all of these guys to watch.[/quote]


I have to agree with you, both are LB's but they have different roles in the defense. Lewis plays the middle and harrison plays the outside and plays a lot on pass rush.

[SuggsNotDrugs]

If you read my initial post that started this thread, I stated they play different positions, that Harrison is specialzied, etc.

The point was to put down on paper that Lewis is undeniably a monster. Harrison is good, especially at what he does, but he's no Ray Lewis

This was intended for those Steeler fans who like to talk crap and say bogus things such as Harrison is better than Ray, Ray is old and washed up, etc.

This was not meant for those of us who are true fans of the game (not just fanboys) because we respect both players for their accomplishments, and understand their roles, etc. It was simply meant as a "hey obnoxious steeler fans, you don't know what you're talking about, here are stats, shut up!"

[NWNewell-Yinzer]

[quote name='SuggsNotDrugs' post='135646' date='Jan 17 2009, 09:30 PM']Take a look at the numbers. You can't hate on Ray, you can't deny his greatness, and you definitely can't even try to argue that Harrison is a better LB!!


2008 stats

James Harrison (age 30)
101 Tackles (67 solo, 34 assists), 16 sacks, 1 safety, 3 Passes Defended, 1 INT, 7 Forced Fumbles

Ray Lewis (age 33)
117 Tackles (85 solo, 32 assists), 3.5 sacks, 9 passes defended, 3 INT, 2 Forced Fumbles

Harrison had a better season, but Ray was still in top form and putting up awesome numbers. Unlike Steelers fans I can show some respect to rival teams and players. Harrison had a darn good season, but Ray isn't washed up, he isn't slowing down, and history shows he's a much better LB, look and see.

2007 stats

James Harrison (29)
98 tackles (72, 22), 8.5 sacks, 3 Passes Defended, 1 INT, 7 Forced Fumbles

Ray Lewis (32)
120 tackles (82 solo, 38 assists), 10 Passes Defended, 2 INT, 1 TD 2 Forced Fumbles

Ray Lewis is a MLB meaning he isn't sent on blitzes nearly as much. Harrison is a blind side blitzer for most QBs, so he may get sacks and FF, but he doesn't score, he can't cover like Ray can, and he sure as shoot can't put a hurting on fools like Ray can. Lets compare Harrison's MVP season with just one of Ray's amazing seasons. (by the way I could only use two seasons for Harrison because he's been a non-factor most of his career)


James Harrison (age 30) 2008
101 Tackles (67 solo, 34 assists), 16 sacks, 1 safety, 3 Passes Defended, 1 INT, 7 Forced Fumbles
Defensive MVP (stolen from Ware or Reed)

Ray Lewis 2003 (age 28)
161 tackles (120 solo, 41 assists), 1.5 sacks, 7 Passes Defended, 6 INT, 1 TD, 2 Forced Fumbles

(by the way this isn't even his MVP season!!!)





all stats provided by NFL.com[/quote]


You can't make an apples to apples comparison between the two. Harrison plays OLB on a 3-4 defense and Lewis is playing MLB in a 4-3 defense. Both players are highly productive and their numbers lean towards where you would expect them to be for the positions they play. Lewis is expected to cover the short middle passing game, stuff the run in the middle, and pursue the run from sideline to sideline. Harrison is not. Harrison is expected to primarily pressure the QB, and contain runs to his side, and sometimes cover the flats (but he doesn't even do that all that often being on the weak side). Harrison is more of a pass rush specialist and he does it very well. This is not Lewis's role at MLB. They both play their respective roles very well. But their roles are different so their stats will be different. I agree that Harrison is not as well rounded as Lewis is and Harrison would not excel at MLB like Lewis does. But at the same time, I don't think Lewis would play Harrison's position as well as he plays MLB (he hated being a MLB in a 3-4 defense... and his stats showed a little... he had to take on lineman a lot more than he does now).

You MIGHT be able to make a better comparison by looking at how much better Lewis is playing than his peers at MLB in a 4-3 defense and how much better Harrison is playing that his peers at OLB in a 3-4 defense.

I'm not trying to argue whether Harrison does or doesn't deserve to be DPOY. Typically the top 3-4 are close enough that anyone has a shot at it and it's tough to evaluate because their positions are always different. I'm simply saying that whether Harrison or Lewis played better at their respective positions in their respective roles is not as cut an dry as you are trying to make.

While Harrison has had a great year... it was only one great year (maybe two because he did pretty well last year as well). But he has not played consistently at a high level like Lewis has. Maybe someday we can say Harrison can be compared to Lewis. But not today. He has a lot of work left to do.

With that said, I'm optimistic about Harrison continuing to put up good numbers over the next few years. Although, at his age, It wil be tought for Harrison to come close to Lewis's accomplishments.