Next Up: Ravens AT Patriots, Gillette Stadium, Monday December 12.

[AsianRice]

When our team are healthy, watch out! 31 teams....

[omar586]

21 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Mostly, yes, out of line. You can't cheat your way to the success they've had. Only so much you can do on a football field, because it all comes down to execution at the end of the day.

If all they did was cheat, I'd certainly expect them to have more Lombardi's than they do.

Whole thing is a lot overblown to me. 

yeah u can cheat ur way to success like the pats, if u can cut down ur fumbling by deflating balls that will sure make players job a lot easier, dont u think? if u know what the other team's play selection by recording their practices and walk through , that will sure make ur gameplan and play selection lot easier. 

[January J]

Brady Also tries to thread the needle a lot right in between the safeties and overtop of the LBs in the  middle of feild. Mosley and our guys have been doing a great job this year dropping back and shutting that stuff down. I can see CJ coming up with a big interception. Also wouldn't be opposed to switch out  Levine at lb  to help out with that. it's hard to say how they will attack and they switch up their approach multiple times a game- so pees can't be set with just One game plan- in game adjustments must be made, and we cannot be playing catch up. Jump on them fast and then just keep switching it up without taking the foot off the gas. Don't let them get comfortable. Easier said than done I know- but they are a team that thrives off of rythym and they are well disciplined. Gotta get them off their game by any means.

[omar586]

i agree we need more of Levine, Urban to swat passes, Judon for more sacks

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, omar586 said:

yeah u can cheat ur way to success like the pats, if u can cut down ur fumbling by deflating balls that will sure make players job a lot easier, dont u think? if u know what the other team's play selection by recording their practices and walk through , that will sure make ur gameplan and play selection lot easier. 

Yup, makes it easier.

That's it. It makes it easier.

Deflated footballs don't throw and catch themselves though. So who's doing that?

Everybodies got a game plan... until they get punched in the mouth.

[omar586]

15 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yup, makes it easier.

That's it. It makes it easier.

Deflated footballs don't throw and catch themselves though. So who's doing that?

Everybodies got a game plan... until they get punched in the mouth.

yeah, but a deflated ball is hard to punch it out of players hands, that's why they were last in fumbles until they got caught, 

[sibelius]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

no but weddle will be playing safer ball than reed used to - weddle doesnt gamble really he makes his reads and keeps everything in front of him as much as possible so it's a different skillset - he's beaten less but obviously also makes less game-changing plays

Well that's why Weddle is leaning on Webb so much. You saw in his presser that he's trying to convey the concepts to Webb and get him up to speed as quickly as possible because he does have the range to make those gambles (see: Tannehill interception). There aren't many safeties in the history of the league that can make that play.

To diagnose the pass, disguise the coverage on the opposite hash, and then have the athleticism to beat a receiver like Devante Parker (4.4 speed) to the spot is an All-World safety play. That's the type of play that makes QBs start to question throwing at all. Then they start writing your name on their wrist ;). 

[rmcjacket23]

12 minutes ago, omar586 said:

yeah, but a deflated ball is hard to punch it out of players hands, that's why they were last in fumbles until they got caught, 

OK, and?

Does that mean that if you don't fumble the ball you are guaranteed to win the game?

You're identifying very small pieces of a very big pie that you have to fill in order to win a game...

[sibelius]

33 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

OK, and?

Does that mean that if you don't fumble the ball you are guaranteed to win the game?

You're identifying very small pieces of a very big pie that you have to fill in order to win a game...

 

That's similar to the baseball hitter's argument (i.e. McGwire, Bonds, etc.) that PEDs can't give you better hand-eye coordination. No, but they can turn pop-ups/foul balls into homers, they can give you more opportunities at the plate that you wouldn't have had otherwise, and over time those advantages will be reflected in your stats. The Patriots have a baseline of practices that they use to create a competitive advantage and then compound that with superior organizational talent that puts them over the top.

Thought Experiment: Take every game the Pats won by a score or less in the Brady/Belichick era prior to 2016 and make half of them Ls.

You're looking at a very different narrative around that franchise. No one is saying they are not generational talent. We are saying that they clearly are willing to flat out cheat to gain an edge and it has contributed to their W/L record. If not, they wouldn't be doing it.

Edited December 8, 2016 by sibelius

[Rav'n Maniac]

Sounds like Bennett isn't doing so well at present as he was a DNP yesterday with ankle and shoulder issues. Had 2 catches for 4 yards last week and only 6 catches for 40 yards over last 3 games.

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4798300/pats-need-martellus-bennett-more-than-ever-but-ankle-injury-bears-watching

[trevorsteadman]

3 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

Sounds like Bennett isn't doing so well at present as he was a DNP yesterday with ankle and shoulder issues. Had 2 catches for 4 yards last week and only 6 catches for 40 yards over last 3 games.

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4798300/pats-need-martellus-bennett-more-than-ever-but-ankle-injury-bears-watching

If Bennett does not play that is one safety we can shift to help the corners. The Ravens cannot be complaining they are playing the Patriots at the right time with all these injuries. 

[rmcjacket23]

18 minutes ago, sibelius said:

 

That's similar to the baseball hitter's argument (i.e. McGwire, Bonds, etc.) that PEDs can't give you better hand-eye coordination. No, but they can turn pop-ups/foul balls into homers, they can give you more opportunities at the plate that you wouldn't have had otherwise, and over time those advantages will be reflected in your stats. The Patriots have a baseline of practices that they use to create a competitive advantage and then compound that with superior organizational talent that puts them over the top.

Thought Experiment: Take every game the Pats won by a score or less in the Brady/Belichick era prior to 2016 and make half of them Ls.

You're looking at a very different narrative around that franchise. No one is saying they are not generational talent. We are saying that they clearly are willing to flat out cheat to gain an edge. If not, they wouldn't be doing it.

1. The obvious issue with this comparison is that you are referencing INDIVIDUAL statistical performances. I'm referencing TEAM performances, i.e. winning and losing games. Those advantages are reflected in your stats, but they are not, however, reflected in the W/L record of a team necessarily. Its one of the main reasons why fans couldn't care less about PED usage in a sport like football. Its a team based sport, where individual accomplishments don't matter nearly as much.

As an aside, PED usage doesn't turn pop ups and foul balls into HRs. Direction of impact is what changes a foul ball into a HR, and PED usage doesn't add 200 feet of power to a hitter. Those are largely myth's that have been long since debunked. 

2. Pretty unreasonable experiment, because it implies that "not cheating" would result in a 50% reduction in Wins of those kinds of games. There's really no basis for that type of reduction... its just a wild guess to fit whatever narrative you are selling.

So similarly, I could say that "not cheating" might mean that they lose only 10% of those games, because I too can just conjure a round number out of thin air to fit my narrative. So at 10% more losses in close games, does the narrative change much? Probably not.

3. I'm not suggesting they don't cheat... its pretty clear at this point that they do. I'm suggesting that its the epitome of ignorance to think they cheat all the time because of a handful of completely different incidents that may or may not have even involved the people fans accuse of cheating over the course of what is now like 15 years.

Here's a hypothetical example of how flawed this logic is:

I own a watch collection of over 100 watches. I see a watch that a street vendor is selling that I want to add to my collection, but I don't have the money to pay for it. So I steal it. I get caught doing so.

An ignorant person would say that every watch in my collection was stolen. In reality, I stole one. 

This is the logic (or lack thereof) that some fans use when they discuss the Patriots. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[sibelius]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. The obvious issue with this comparison is that you are referencing INDIVIDUAL statistical performances. I'm referencing TEAM performances, i.e. winning and losing games. Those advantages are reflected in your stats, but they are not, however, reflected in the W/L record of a team necessarily. Its one of the main reasons why fans couldn't care less about PED usage in a sport like football. Its a team based sport, where individual accomplishments don't matter nearly as much.

As an aside, PED usage doesn't turn pop ups and foul balls into HRs. Direction of impact is what changes a foul ball into a HR, and PED usage doesn't add 200 feet of power to a hitter. Those are largely myth's that have been long since debunked. 

2. Pretty unreasonable experiment, because it implies that "not cheating" would result in a 50% reduction in Wins of those kinds of games. There's really no basis for that type of reduction... its just a wild guess to fit whatever narrative you are selling.

So similarly, I could say that "not cheating" might mean that they lose only 10% of those games, because I too can just conjure a round number out of thin air to fit my narrative. So at 10% more losses in close games, does the narrative change much? Probably not.

3. I'm not suggesting they don't cheat... its pretty clear at this point that they do. I'm suggesting that its the epitome of ignorance to think they cheat all the time because of a handful of completely different incidents that may or may not have even involved the people fans accuse of cheating over the course of what is now like 15 years.

Here's a hypothetical example of how flawed this logic is:

I own a watch collection of over 100 watches. I see a watch that a street vendor is selling that I want to add to my collection, but I don't have the money to pay for it. So I steal it. I get caught doing so.

An ignorant person would say that every watch in my collection was stolen. In reality, I stole one. 

This is the logic (or lack thereof) that some fans use when they discuss the Patriots. 

We can agree to disagree. In my view you're just flat out wrong here -- condescension notwithstanding.

Edited December 8, 2016 by sibelius

[Cillmatic]

According to the weatherman we can expect snow on Monday. Hopefully that doesn't hurt us. I really think we have a better team.

[Gtown Purple]

17 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

we have a secondary this time around. 

brady dunno nuthin bout dat.

Depends on the matchups. I would expect Jimmy to cover Bennett if they split him out wide. Powers\Wright are going to get somebody unless they bring webb into slot and Elam at FS. I almost like the latter more. I don't think powers\wright could keep up. 

[Rav'n Maniac]

6 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

According to the weatherman we can expect snow on Monday. Hopefully that doesn't hurt us. I really think we have a better team.

Coincidentally, the last time we played in the snow was in 2013 vs the Vikings with that great endzone catch by Brown in the waning seconds. That game was in week 14 as well.

[Gtown Purple]

9 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

According to the weatherman we can expect snow on Monday. Hopefully that doesn't hurt us. I really think we have a better team.

That would actually help us since NE's offense is predicated mostly on short timing passes off cut type routes. Our running game is superior to theirs.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, Gtown Purple said:

That would actually help us since NE's offense is predicated mostly on short timing passes off cut type routes. Our running game is superior to theirs.

1. I certainly don't think our running game is superior. Frankly, I think there's is better by a pretty wide margin in terms of efficiency and productivity.

The only reason it will APPEAR that way is because our run defense is superior to their's. 

2. The snow debate could go either way. Generally it favors the offense because they know where they are going and the defense doesn't. Obviously much harder to take deep shots down the field in a snow storm.

Realistically, it looks more like rain than snow. Might see some snow, but the temperature will likely keep it warm enough that the accumulation won't be much. Temp is expected to stay at or above freezing for most of the game.

[omar586]

30 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

According to the weatherman we can expect snow on Monday. Hopefully that doesn't hurt us. I really think we have a better team.

this is why our running game needs to improve, because of the weather factor.

[sibelius]

47 minutes ago, Gtown Purple said:

That would actually help us since NE's offense is predicated mostly on short timing passes off cut type routes. Our running game is superior to theirs.

Their running game has been better, but the ceiling for ours is much much higher. I think we'll see a glimpse of that Monday. 

Dixon is going to put their LBs on skates. 

[Jonah DeVito]

18 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Well they say the sky's the limit, and to me that's really true, but my friend you have seen nothing nothing, just wait till he(Tavon) gets through, Because he's bad. He's bad. 

 

 

Tavon is a pretty good corner, I know some who would argue he's the best corner on the team. He plays a lot bigger than his size. I'm not worried about him. Far more worried about Powers. 

If anyone argues that Tavon is the best corner on the team then they have no clue what they are talking about. 

[ludy51]

Apparently even Martellus Bennett's status for this game is in question. His ankle is appearing to be getting worse, not better.

[Cillmatic]

42 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

Apparently even Martellus Bennett's status for this game is in question. His ankle is appearing to be getting worse, not better.

Big if true.

[Moderator 3]

25 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

Big if true.

Too bad we can't believe any injury news coming out of NE.

[K-Dog]

20 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

we have a secondary this time around. 

brady dunno nuthin bout dat.

*nuffun'

[Cillmatic]

58 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

Too bad we can't believe any injury news coming out of NE.

"Bill B. Is currently listed as questionable. We're hearing the injury is "day-to-day".

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

4 hours ago, Gtown Purple said:

That would actually help us since NE's offense is predicated mostly on short timing passes off cut type routes. Our running game is superior to theirs.

Thus far the Pats run game has been much better than ours. Their interior OL is pretty darn good and Blount is very good between the tackles. 

Lewis/White are shifty and good at getting to the edge and terrors in the screen game or from the slot. 

Plus our passing game has also been very much predicated on the short passing game. 

 

Idk that snow would really benefit one team more than the other from an offensive style perspective. Maybe in terms of mentality... I like to think our D has a very rugged, hard nosed, punch you in the mouth type attitude which can be compounded in a cold, miserable game. 

But don't get it twisted... they can get down and play rugged, power football too. You don't win that often in December/January in the North East without that ability. 

[sibelius]

I think weather plays into our favor because I don't care who's playing for the Patriots, there isn't a team in the league that can match the physicality or intensity of the Ravens. When it's bitter and cold out, that intensity chips away at the psyche.

Adam Gase on the game: "I called my friends around the league leading up to the game and they all complained about how their offense plays against them."

The Patriots hate playing us not because we can beat them, we beat them because they hate playing us. It hurts. 

Let's go. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by sibelius

[rossihunter2]

6 hours ago, sibelius said:

That's similar to the baseball hitter's argument (i.e. McGwire, Bonds, etc.) that PEDs can't give you better hand-eye coordination. No, but they can turn pop-ups/foul balls into homers, they can give you more opportunities at the plate that you wouldn't have had otherwise, and over time those advantages will be reflected in your stats. The Patriots have a baseline of practices that they use to create a competitive advantage and then compound that with superior organizational talent that puts them over the top.

Thought Experiment: Take every game the Pats won by a score or less in the Brady/Belichick era prior to 2016 and make half of them Ls.

You're looking at a very different narrative around that franchise. No one is saying they are not generational talent. We are saying that they clearly are willing to flat out cheat to gain an edge and it has contributed to their W/L record. If not, they wouldn't be doing it.

now i hate the pats as much as any ravens fan but we need to give it a rest on most of this cheating stuff - every team cheats, the pats just cheat and win a lot more than other teams - in fact what they do better (see more effectively) than any other team is testing the boundaries of what's legal and sometimes they get caught and it becomes a big deal - but every other nfl franchise does or has cheated

http://yourteamcheats.com/

[ravensnation5220]

Cant it just be Monday already??????