[News] Late For Work 11/30: Should League REALLY Consider Awarding Point For Kickoffs Through Uprights?

[BR News]

Ravens run defense 'shockingly' on pace to surpass 2000 squad in DVOA history. Judon in, Smith out ... expect more tough decisions at OLB. When will NFL announce London games? Did you notice Webb moving to nickel corner and Elam in at safety?

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[RaRaRavens]

Man, with Doom and Sizzle both playing our defense will be even more dominant! Can't wait for Sunday, Dolphins run game will be a nice challenge. Has the potential to be a great game for us. GO RAVENS!

[Molson Man]

I love Tucker but it is sad that our kicker is the ticket seller on the team.

[DBsRAVENS]

How much softer can Harbaugh make a once tough and feared franchise? "Wouldn't it be neat if we could get a point from splitting the uprights during the kickoff." SMH

[Minionhunter]

Yeah, I think most people noticed Elam out there, not looking too good. Notice Weddle is praising Webb and not Elam.

I've often thought that you should get a point for kicking off through the uprights, mostly since I've seen Tucker do it a few times over the years but I never thought anyone would suggest it and I was just wishing. PFF had an article on it yesterday, it would add more excitement and more gamesmanship than "just a point". Add in allowing goal-tending on the possible kick and it is now a competitive play and likely would lead to fewer injuries.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/29/ravens-propose-a-bonus-point-for-kickoffs-through-the-uprights/

This game is not the game played in 2000 anymore, I don't think anyone pretends it is, so I'm in favor of trying it out and seeing how it goes for a year. I really like it. Now if we could still see great defensive games with lots of big crushing hits in every game, I might think otherwise, but that won't ever happen again so I'm in favor of seeing what happens.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

How much softer can Harbaugh make a once tough and feared franchise? "Wouldn't it be neat if we could get a point from splitting the uprights during the kickoff." SMH

You do realize we have the #1 run D in the league, and #1 D overall, right? That doesnt exactly sound like "soft" to me.

[Minionhunter]

How much softer can Harbaugh make a once tough and feared franchise? "Wouldn't it be neat if we could get a point from splitting the uprights during the kickoff." SMH

I don't think it is soft at all, unless you are pretending the current NFL game is what it was 20 years ago. I don't even think the Ravens would benefit the most, that would likely be Denver, dome teams, and whoever plays in Mexico.

[VermontRaven]

As much as I love Tucker and think it is a neat idea to reward kickers for splitting the uprights, I don't like the idea of it being worth a point because there is no defense for it. However, I like the idea of having the other team start at the 10 or 15 if it happens. That adds some excitement and theoretically improves player safety because 1) It makes teams more likely to kick deep for touchbacks, 2) If a penalty was called and the kickoff was moved to the 40, 45, or 50 yard line, it would give the kicking team incentive to try to split the uprights, rather than doing a "pooch kick" to try to pin them deep.

[Bat-mite]

Hmm, we have a kicker that does what no one else can do, and we want to milk it for a point now and then. Nice idea, but it really isn't football.

Want more points? Tell the offense to play like a Raven!

[Minionhunter]

As much as I love Tucker and think it is a neat idea to reward kickers for splitting the uprights, I don't like the idea of it being worth a point because there is no defense for it. However, I like the idea of having the other team start at the 10 or 15 if it happens. That adds some excitement and theoretically improves player safety because 1) It makes teams more likely to kick deep for touchbacks, 2) If a penalty was called and the kickoff was moved to the 40, 45, or 50 yard line, it would give the kicking team incentive to try to split the uprights, rather than doing a "pooch kick" to try to pin them deep.

The defense is allowing goal tending (currently illegal on FG and PAT) on the kickoff point try, and you get the ball at the 25. You could even say you get the ball at the 35 if you successfully goal-tend the ball. The shots will likely be low due to the distance. Also you apply any penalties on the previous score (FG or TD) which would make them mean something instead of being virtually meaningless now. There is a lot to this than initially meets the eye if you think about it.

[Minionhunter]

Hmm, we have a kicker that does what no one else can do, and we want to milk it for a point now and then. Nice idea, but it really isn't football.

Want more points? Tell the offense to play like a Raven!

I've seen other kickers do it, not often, but I haven't seen Tucker do it but a few times either. Again, I think Denver and dome teams would benefit more than us (after that Mexico games due to extreme elevation, and warm weather teams after October would then have the advantage), I think Baltimore would be one of the worst places to try this due to the stadium being at or slightly below sea level.

[Minionhunter]

Hmm, we have a kicker that does what no one else can do, and we want to milk it for a point now and then. Nice idea, but it really isn't football.

Want more points? Tell the offense to play like a Raven!

Umm, I'm all for getting more points from TD, but please enlighten me as to when the Ravens have been known for having a high scoring offensive identity.

[whobilly]

Why am I getting the feeling that KC will be our next Arthur Brown? Can't continue to whiff more then hit on #1, #2, and #3 picks.

[steelraven]

How could anyone not notice Elam out there? Stevie wonder could've seen he was out there.

[fusuymada]

Instead of criticizing the fun kicking rule, or beating up on players and calling them busts, I think I will talk about something relevant like our run defense, who by the chart is tremendous so I would like to mention 2 things.

1. Sign Brandon Williams. Just do it, no excuses, I don't care, he is like Ngata in his prime, or better, we need him bad. Other players improve when he is playing beside them. That is a person we need to keep as we have few of them on this team

2. Lets shut down the Miami run game and make Jay Ajayi useless and then lets go to town getting Tannehill to throw balls to our secondary. Granted, our secondaries not so great on the catching side, but I think we are due for a couple interceptions in this game once we shut down Ajayi. Tannehill is known for poor decision making.

Let's go Joe... Go Ravens!!!!

SLIDE!!!!

[Bat-mite]

34 minutes ago, Minionhunter said:

Umm, I'm all for getting more points from TD, but please enlighten me as to when the Ravens have been known for having a high scoring offensive identity.

I just meant that we ought to focus on improving the offense as opposed to trying to squeeze a few extra points out of long kickoffs.

[Cawtious]

No.  Creates an possible 9 point swing in a game after a touchdown and 2-point conversion.  Too gimmicky.

[metalraven]

Hmm, we have a kicker that does what no one else can do, and we want to milk it for a point now and then. Nice idea, but it really isn't football.

Want more points? Tell the offense to play like a Raven!

Hahaha - ya. The offense is so bad, the organization is trying to come up with ways to get more points, because the offense certainly can't do it.

[eze17]

As for the DVOA system, I think Mark Twain put it best when describing lies: "there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

People will crunch numbers together to try and make their own points; add or subtract a few numbers, and you get a different result. Cybernetic geeks will change/replace their formulas every few years to make it look like they're doing something new and exciting, when really thy're simply changing different variables to achieve varying outcomes.

Comparing the 2000 Ravens run defense vs. the 2016 Ravens run defense may be interesting, but anyone can change a certain set of statistics to achieve the result they desire. I think i'll stick with the smell test in this circumstance...

[sami]

I saw Elam out there. I saw him miss about 3 tackles. Anthony Levine would be a better choice in my estimation.

[Ravensfansince03]

I saw Elam out there. I saw him miss about 3 tackles. Anthony Levine would be a better choice in my estimation.

Wow, that's sad he's still missing tackles. 1st round pick my butt.

[Ravensfansince03]

Instead of criticizing the fun kicking rule, or beating up on players and calling them busts, I think I will talk about something relevant like our run defense, who by the chart is tremendous so I would like to mention 2 things.

1. Sign Brandon Williams. Just do it, no excuses, I don't care, he is like Ngata in his prime, or better, we need him bad. Other players improve when he is playing beside them. That is a person we need to keep as we have few of them on this team

2. Lets shut down the Miami run game and make Jay Ajayi useless and then lets go to town getting Tannehill to throw balls to our secondary. Granted, our secondaries not so great on the catching side, but I think we are due for a couple interceptions in this game once we shut down Ajayi. Tannehill is known for poor decision making.

Let's go Joe... Go Ravens!!!!

SLIDE!!!!

To be honest, in my opinion Brandon Williams is not as good as "Ngata was in his prime".

[Minionhunter]

  1 hour ago, Minionhunter said:

Umm, I'm all for getting more points from TD, but please enlighten me as to when the Ravens have been known for having a high scoring offensive identity.

I just meant that we ought to focus on improving the offense as opposed to trying to squeeze a few extra points out of long kickoffs.

I'm totally with you there. I just like the potential new twist, gimmick or not. At one time the 2-point conversion was a gimmick.

[Raven1995]

  1 hour ago, fusuymada said:

Instead of criticizing the fun kicking rule, or beating up on players and calling them busts, I think I will talk about something relevant like our run defense, who by the chart is tremendous so I would like to mention 2 things.

1. Sign Brandon Williams. Just do it, no excuses, I don't care, he is like Ngata in his prime, or better, we need him bad. Other players improve when he is playing beside them. That is a person we need to keep as we have few of them on this team

2. Lets shut down the Miami run game and make Jay Ajayi useless and then lets go to town getting Tannehill to throw balls to our secondary. Granted, our secondaries not so great on the catching side, but I think we are due for a couple interceptions in this game once we shut down Ajayi. Tannehill is known for poor decision making.

Let's go Joe... Go Ravens!!!!

SLIDE!!!!

To be honest, in my opinion Brandon Williams is not as good as "Ngata was in his prime".

Ngata was a Beast and a 5 time Pro bowler. Also, helped Suggs get a Defensive MVP in 2011.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

Awarding a single point on the kick off is a great idea. It also plays in favor of the recent change to move the kickoff spot up the field.

At least instead of the ball just sailing out the end zone, which still occurs frequently, add the excitement of watching the kicker try to hit what is really a very long FG. It also provides teams with an alternative solution to closer small point gaps created through 2 pt conversions, etc.

I would even be in favor of the receiving team (offense) gaining extra 5 yards on the spot if you miss the attempt and the ball goes out the end zone, just to add a little risk/reward to the decision. Catching the ball in the end zone would only bring the ball out to the current spot.

The ability to score a single doesn't mean every kicker would go for it every play. Sometimes you would purposely want to kick a returnable ball to try and pin the opponent deep in their end. Also a single point does not mess with the flow of the game very much except in a very tight game, within 3 points (FG). Anything more than that and a single is just not going to matter much.

One small consideration that would need to be determined with trials, is if the current kick off spot is a fair spotting to give all kickers a reasonable chance to kick a single.

Many people see the current kickoffs, especially with rule changes as automatic commercial breaks to replenish food, drinks, bio, etc. Make the play interesting again with less

[mendii]

1 hour ago, Ravensfansince03 said:

To be honest, in my opinion Brandon Williams is not as good as "Ngata was in his prime".

No, Brandon Williams is not Ngata in his prime, but VERY few players are. Tell you what though, if we were gonna play a team who ran the ball every play, I would want Brandon on the field over anybody else we've had. That dude eats more double teams than candy bars, and he's a big man. 

[rmcjacket23]

  3 hours ago, fusuymada said:

Instead of criticizing the fun kicking rule, or beating up on players and calling them busts, I think I will talk about something relevant like our run defense, who by the chart is tremendous so I would like to mention 2 things.

1. Sign Brandon Williams. Just do it, no excuses, I don't care, he is like Ngata in his prime, or better, we need him bad. Other players improve when he is playing beside them. That is a person we need to keep as we have few of them on this team

2. Lets shut down the Miami run game and make Jay Ajayi useless and then lets go to town getting Tannehill to throw balls to our secondary. Granted, our secondaries not so great on the catching side, but I think we are due for a couple interceptions in this game once we shut down Ajayi. Tannehill is known for poor decision making.

Let's go Joe... Go Ravens!!!!

SLIDE!!!!

To be honest, in my opinion Brandon Williams is not as good as "Ngata was in his prime".

True, but Ngata isn't really a true NT either. His best days as a Raven were probably when Gregg lined up at NT.

[billiejean]

Instead of criticizing the fun kicking rule, or beating up on players and calling them busts, I think I will talk about something relevant like our run defense, who by the chart is tremendous so I would like to mention 2 things.

1. Sign Brandon Williams. Just do it, no excuses, I don't care, he is like Ngata in his prime, or better, we need him bad. Other players improve when he is playing beside them. That is a person we need to keep as we have few of them on this team

2. Lets shut down the Miami run game and make Jay Ajayi useless and then lets go to town getting Tannehill to throw balls to our secondary. Granted, our secondaries not so great on the catching side, but I think we are due for a couple interceptions in this game once we shut down Ajayi. Tannehill is known for poor decision making.

Let's go Joe... Go Ravens!!!!

SLIDE!!!!

"he is like Ngata in his prime, or better, we need him bad" I am not trying to take anything away from Brandon. He is a good player but not as good as Ngata. Ngata was a force to be reckoned with in both the run and the pass game. He was much more agile/athletic than BW in his prime. BW is going to get paid well, and most likely too well, which will take us out of the bidding for his services. He is going to be this years KO (I think we have a better chance of signing him than we did with KO). I am sure there are many people like you who have already checked the "indispensable" box, and i am sure there are some people who think resigning him is a given, but I don't think thats true. One of the biggest reasons why we will let him go (besides the price tag) is Michael Pierce. Pierce is playing at a remarkably high level considering he came from a lower level of competition (BW was only activated for 6 games in his rookie season). His potential is much greater than BWs because he is such a freak of an athlete. He matches or beats every one of Ngatas combine scores. Now, there are guys that tear up the combine and put up ridiculous numbers that turn out to be busts, but MPs rookie year has shown that he is the real deal. He is only going to get better from here. And when BW takes the money I am sure you will chastise him for being selfish and you will criticize the team that he goes to, just as you did with KO (K.O. is selfish, KO is going to a terrible team a "black hole") but hopeful Michael Pierce will be able to make that bitter pill a bit sweeter.

[bioLarzen]

Extra point for kickoffs between the uprigths would IMHO put dome teams in an unfair advantage. They'd be guaranteed at least half of their games in domes where long kicks are much easier in lack of wind... The Ravens have 1 dome game this season (in Dallas), while there are kickers who can kick in domes 10 out of 16 games... That would be unfair.

[bioLarzen]

I saw Elam out there. I saw him miss about 3 tackles. Anthony Levine would be a better choice in my estimation.

Now you only have to convince the coaches... who, unlike us fans, see them both every day in trainings...