Next up: Ràvens vs Dolphins December 4th M&T Bank stadium

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Dolphins in Baltimore? Let's see...they haven't won here in nearly 2 decades, Joe has pretty much owned them, as well and (last but most relevant) we need this game like...oxygen, water and food for our "playoff" survival. I don't want to see any dolphins performing (well) in Baltimore unless it's in the National Aquarium.

FlocksGottaFeed and everybody needs to eat this game. Offense and Defense. GO Ravens!!!

Edited November 29, 2016 by FlocksGottaFeed
I don't want to see any dolphins performing

[JoeyFlex5]

Man, this guy gets me amped..

[JoeyFlex5]

7 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

None that I saw.

I didn't think the call was that boneheaded. I think fans just assume that because we have a good kicker we should kick it all the time, but that changes with a single missed kick. 

If its a shorter kick, in the 40 yard range or so, sure, I probably kick, and I think he would there as well. But that's not what this was.

Its an aggressive call, and ultimately, that's what fans want. In a worst case scenario, we don't get it, we put our defense on the field who had been performing well, and we still have a 7 point lead in the 4th quarter.

In theory, the ACTUAL worst case scenario there is a blocked or missed FG, because that gives the Bengals even better field position than they have if we don't convert.

Best case scenario... you convert, extend the drive, score a TD, and largely put the game away or close to it. And as we saw, you can convert it, take more time off the clock, and still get the points you passed up, which is probably the most likely of outcomes.

When you weight the pros and cons, I have no issue with going for it there.

I said clear as day that I thought it was boneheaded. And the rule of thumb generally has always been don't go for it if you don't need to. If you have the lead and it's the 4th quarter and you can extend it, take the points. Just because they converted it doesn't make it any less of an unnecessary risk. 

And having a good kicker isn't a bad thing.. It allows us to take advantage of that exact situation and walk away with points.

[robbie29]

13 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Lol

You laugh at the suggestion that the NFL might be fixed, but think about the billions that are wrapped up in the business. With all that revenue and money on the line (Vegas, Fantasy football, etc) I find it hard to believe that every contest is left 100% to chance. 

[Mindtornado]

11 hours ago, jboy19 said:

I don't feel good about this game. Miami really needs to win this game and they're definitely going to bring everything they have. The Miami WRs are one of the more underrated groups in the NFL. I think that Jimmy Smith can match up well against Devante Parker and Tavon can matchup well against Landry- who has been pretty quiet recently. I doubt Ajayi goes off against the Ravens though- especially if the Miami OL is as unhealthy as it seems. 

The offense will struggle a lot. That Miami DL is no joke- there needs to be a plan to deal with Suh, Wake and Williams- quick passes, draws, etc.- I don't see how we'll be able to rely on the long ball with Ducasse and Half-Yanda up against that interior pressure. 

This game is going to be a fight, and (assuming Jimmy Smith plays), I think the game ends Baltimore 16, Miami 13. 

 

Parker left the Niners game in a back brace. No idea yet if he plays.  Ajayi has cooled off recently - oline injuries and Gase calling too many stretch runs.

Us Fin fans are hopeful Albert and Tunsil play. Not much hope for Pouncey.  Most fans on our board expect a loss regardless. Ravens  are a tough matchup.  Tannehill has been great during the streak but I expect a bunch of batted balls as he still struggles finding the lane.

Youre right about our DLine.  Don't sleep on Branch #50 though. He'll get after Flacco. Our two best DBs are out Jones and Howard.  Ex Eagle Maxwell #41 has been better lately but holds on every play. If he covers Smith Sr. (by the way it has to almost be time to change the back of his jersey to Smith the III) expect a scuffle or three.

If it comes down to kickers, we're cooked. Franks longest this season is 43 yards. Gase doesn't let him even try  from  50+.  

In in any case, best of luck. 

[Mindtornado]

10 minutes ago, robbie29 said:

To this point, Laremy Tunsil has proven to be the better LT than Stanley. No health issues thus far, and he's only got 3 penalties all season versus Stanley's 9.

I couldn't help but notice that Tunsil was born and raised in FLA. A part of me wonders if that gas mask photo was intentionally staged and/or leaked to cause him to fall into the Dolphins' lap. The timing of that photo leak just seemed a bit shady to me.

No one in our front office is that smart...

[Halshayeji]

On November 28, 2016 at 3:19 AM, JoeyFlex5 said:

worried about the DL, but i feel good about everything else. if jimmy is back then jarvis landry and parker will be shut down, jimmy can handle both of them easily and i believe tavon young is a great matchup with parker, ball skills vs ball skills, and young is the more explosive of the 2, as long as we can keep jimmy on landry we should be good. we did well against the cowboys run game til the very end so i have no doubts about handling ajayi. 

but once again... the offensive line is incredibly worrisome. it sucks weve had so many injuries and zuttah just fell off the face of earth since 2014, because the unit looked good on paper, but its a disaster. just hope like hell we can contain suh.

I absolutely agree. The dline scares me. If we keep running north and south well probably fail. We gotta go east and west more often and work a few screens early to keep them in check. If Suh gets loose just hold him, Flacco needs to stay upright at all costs.

iv been watching Parker lately. He's impressive to say the least. I'd put Jimmy on him as I think young matches up better vs Landry.

we need to contain ajayi with minimal LB help and we should be fine. We need this W

[hn68wb4]

I see Perriman having a good game this week - and before people jump on me about that: "people have been saying that for weeks," this is the first time I'm saying he'll have a breakout game, so I don't think what others have said for previous weeks applies. Early on last week it seemed like he was the only WR putting in effort with that TD catch and laying out for the other long ball (even though he couldn't bring that one in, at least he laid out and tried to bring it in, it was a tough catch), I think this is the game where he really puts it together, production matches effort and he finally crosses the 100 yard barrier and adding a TD to round out the performance.

Obviously the coaches are well aware that the Dolphins' dline can be scary, so I expect quick throws and more crossing routes to keep their defense honest and then handing it to Dixon to weave through traffic opening up a deep ball or two. To me it just feels like a game where Perriman's skill set would be particularly deadly, him and Wallace were built for quick crossing routes and their CBs aren't very good regardless, I think he'll be able to get separation deep against them.

[JO_75]

4 hours ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

Dolphins in Baltimore? Let's see...they haven't won here in nearly 2 decades, Joe has pretty much owned them, as well and (last but most relevant) we need this game like...oxygen, water and food for our "playoff" survival. I don't want to see any dolphins performing (well) in Baltimore unless it's in the National Aquarium.

FlocksGottaFeed and everybody needs to eat this game. Offense and Defense. GO Ravens!!!

Dallas never beat us for 2 decades and look what happened. Don't jink it.

[Moderator 2]

On 11/27/2016 at 6:03 PM, Tornado700 said:

 

 Only people that were fans of the old BALTIMORE Colts would remember that, I was hoping it was handed down, I was a little kid remembering my mom saying that while making chicken lol  The Colts were in our division so instead of various words we have for the Browns, Bengals and Steelers it was 'shake and bake and make dolphin steak'.  Now days you have to call it mahi mahi vs the mammal dolphin, which no one wishes to turn into steak. 

[reed20]

12 hours ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

Dolphins in Baltimore? Let's see...they haven't won here in nearly 2 decades, Joe has pretty much owned them, as well and (last but most relevant) we need this game like...oxygen, water and food for our "playoff" survival. I don't want to see any dolphins performing (well) in Baltimore unless it's in the National Aquarium.

FlocksGottaFeed and everybody needs to eat this game. Offense and Defense. GO Ravens!!!

The whole "they haven't beat us" crap is a dumb stat. Two different teams from years past. Dallas had never beaten us before and look what happened? They're different from Dallas teams we've faced in the past. They're better. The stat is just irrelevant when calling a victor to a brand new game.

[OUravensfan]

14 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

Ya'll and all of this "breakout" talk for the offense is hilarious OU!  

It's more of a sick joke by this point. But seriously, we're due for a breakout performance from the offense

[Cillmatic]

14 hours ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

Dolphins in Baltimore? Let's see...they haven't won here in nearly 2 decades, Joe has pretty much owned them, as well and (last but most relevant) we need this game like...oxygen, water and food for our "playoff" survival. I don't want to see any dolphins performing (well) in Baltimore unless it's in the National Aquarium.

FlocksGottaFeed and everybody needs to eat this game. Offense and Defense. GO Ravens!!!

The past means NOTHING. These odd stats only jinx the game.

[rmcjacket23]

11 hours ago, robbie29 said:

You laugh at the suggestion that the NFL might be fixed, but think about the billions that are wrapped up in the business. With all that revenue and money on the line (Vegas, Fantasy football, etc) I find it hard to believe that every contest is left 100% to chance. 

Do you think the reward of rigging any individual football game at a league-wide level is sufficient to justify the risk of literally destroying the entire sport?

Do fans really understand what happens to a sport when they find out that the people that oversee said sport have rigged the outcome of certain events? Its called the end of the sport. You risked billions to gain millions. 

We're not talking about some one-off official or individual person who is shaving points or something like that. 

In terms of the amount of money bet on sports (including online casinos), its a rounding error in comparison to the totality of revenue that the league generates on even an annual basis. The amounts bet on any individual football game not named the SB aren't anywhere close to large enough to risk the entire enterprise on to win.

Edited November 30, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[rmcjacket23]

13 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I said clear as day that I thought it was boneheaded. And the rule of thumb generally has always been don't go for it if you don't need to. If you have the lead and it's the 4th quarter and you can extend it, take the points. Just because they converted it doesn't make it any less of an unnecessary risk. 

And having a good kicker isn't a bad thing.. It allows us to take advantage of that exact situation and walk away with points.

But its not a rule of thumb... at all. A rule of thumb means that 100% of teams would do it unequivocally and without discussion. But you already know that's not the case. 

Here's what I can probably say definitively... Bill Belichick doesn't kick a FG there. Frankly, I'm not sure how many HCs I could name that actually would kick in that spot. 

We pretty much know by now that the statistical analysis says strongly that you should go for it in that spot, so that's not helping the argument either.

[JoeyFlex5]

56 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

But its not a rule of thumb... at all. A rule of thumb means that 100% of teams would do it unequivocally and without discussion. But you already know that's not the case. 

Here's what I can probably say definitively... Bill Belichick doesn't kick a FG there. Frankly, I'm not sure how many HCs I could name that actually would kick in that spot. 

We pretty much know by now that the statistical analysis says strongly that you should go for it in that spot, so that's not helping the argument either.

What was it a 52 yard field goal? Like I said, most coaches don't feel comfortable kicking that because of their kicker, it is a very distinct and big advantage that the ravens have to be able to confidently field your kicking team for a 52 yarder. Just because other teams in incomparable situations wouldn't do it, doesn't mean the same metrics apply to us. We struggle on offense, we have no reason to feel confident in any 4th down attempt, not to the point that we possibly leave 3 points on the board for, and we have a defense that puts the game further out of reach with each point scored. 

Also im not gonna argue semantics about what you think rule of thumb means and how it applies to all 32 teams in all possible situations. Obviously there's a lot of factors at play so it's a pointless discussion, BUT we have went for it on 4th down many times this season in situations where we should have taken the points and it came back to bite us, we have the best kicker in the league and he is 100% on the season with multiple kicks well over 50 yards, use that advantage, don't waste it and leave points on the field because you wanna be aggressive for the hell of it.

[January J]

12 hours ago, robbie29 said:

You laugh at the suggestion that the NFL might be fixed, but think about the billions that are wrapped up in the business. With all that revenue and money on the line (Vegas, Fantasy football, etc) I find it hard to believe that every contest is left 100% to chance. 

Not possible. You can't fix a game that is completely up to chance and sometimes ends just by the way the ball bounces ( hence KC vs Denver) -

Now what's a little more likely is officials trying to sway a game one way or the other to  get a certain matchup that the league might want in the superbowl or to get a team in the playoffs that has a larger market- but even that is farfetched and pretty silly.

12 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

I see Perriman having a good game this week - and before people jump on me about that: "people have been saying that for weeks," this is the first time I'm saying he'll have a breakout game, so I don't think what others have said for previous weeks applies. Early on last week it seemed like he was the only WR putting in effort with that TD catch and laying out for the other long ball (even though he couldn't bring that one in, at least he laid out and tried to bring it in, it was a tough catch), I think this is the game where he really puts it together, production matches effort and he finally crosses the 100 yard barrier and adding a TD to round out the performance.

Obviously the coaches are well aware that the Dolphins' dline can be scary, so I expect quick throws and more crossing routes to keep their defense honest and then handing it to Dixon to weave through traffic opening up a deep ball or two. To me it just feels like a game where Perriman's skill set would be particularly deadly, him and Wallace were built for quick crossing routes and their CBs aren't very good regardless, I think he'll be able to get separation deep against them.

I can also see that. I think we take several deep shots Sunday and really focus on getting the ball downfeild and getting large chunks. We know Joe likes to sling it- and I think we might let him loose, esp if the running game is humming and the play action is working well. Looking for Dixon and perriman to both have big games- along with Wallace. Still hoping we get waller involved more too in the redzone but we'll see. Maybe Boyle gets some targets this week as well. Let's see how anxious he is to pummel some people. Still Surprised camp hasn't been brought up yet- I really think we could use another small shifty guy in the slot to help move the chains on third down or short yardage situations.

[January J]

On 11/29/2016 at 11:03 AM, trevorsteadman said:

Yep I was so annoyed of that. That Oakland game was a definite win if we took field goals and so was the Redskins game (I believe it has been awhile and I'm half asleep). Ravens offense isn't consistent enough to go for it on 4th down... Especially when you have Tucker you take the points and especially when your defense has played really good football overall. 

We should've just let tucker boot the damn thing from 67 and just lived with the outcome. I would've felt better about our chances of him getting that then our chances of getting the 4th and 10. If only Moore had caught that ball or we had gotten 5 more yards I really think we would've attempted it. How epic would that have been to win the game with a 67 yard boot? I can see him celebrating now.

  13 hours ago, robbie29 said:

To this point, Laremy Tunsil has proven to be the better LT than Stanley. No health issues thus far, and he's only got 3 penalties all season versus Stanley's 9.

I couldn't help but notice that Tunsil was born and raised in FLA. A part of me wonders if that gas mask photo was intentionally staged and/or leaked to cause him to fall into the Dolphins' lap. The timing of that photo leak just seemed a bit shady to me

Isnt Tunsil injured right now? And to my knowledge he hasn't even been playing LT he's been playing guard.

[JoeyFlex5]

4 minutes ago, January J said:

We should've just let tucker boot the damn thing from 67 and just lived with the outcome. I would've felt better about our chances of him getting that then our chances of getting the 4th and 10. If only Moore had caught that ball or we had gotten 5 more yards I really think we would've attempted it. How epic would that have been to win the game with a 67 yard boot? I can see him celebrating now.

To this point, Laremy Tunsil has proven to be the better LT than Stanley. No health issues thus far, and he's only got 3 penalties all season versus Stanley's 9.

I couldn't help but notice that Tunsil was born and raised in FLA. A part of me wonders if that gas mask photo was intentionally staged and/or leaked to cause him to fall into the Dolphins' lap. The timing of that photo leak just seemed a bit shady to me

Isnt Tunsil injured right now? And to my knowledge he hasn't even been playing LT he's been playing guard.

The LG who has yet to take a real snap at LT is playing LT better than one of the highest performing rookie LTs in recent memory, because he has less penalties. 

Ok.

[BmoreBird22]

13 hours ago, Mindtornado said:

 

Parker left the Niners game in a back brace. No idea yet if he plays.  Ajayi has cooled off recently - oline injuries and Gase calling too many stretch runs.

Us Fin fans are hopeful Albert and Tunsil play. Not much hope for Pouncey.  Most fans on our board expect a loss regardless. Ravens  are a tough matchup.  Tannehill has been great during the streak but I expect a bunch of batted balls as he still struggles finding the lane.

Youre right about our DLine.  Don't sleep on Branch #50 though. He'll get after Flacco. Our two best DBs are out Jones and Howard.  Ex Eagle Maxwell #41 has been better lately but holds on every play. If he covers Smith Sr. (by the way it has to almost be time to change the back of his jersey to Smith the III) expect a scuffle or three.

If it comes down to kickers, we're cooked. Franks longest this season is 43 yards. Gase doesn't let him even try  from  50+.  

In in any case, best of luck. 

I was about to come in here and say not to sleep on the Dolphins because they're offense had been so hot lately, but you just made a compelling argument against all of that...

[BmoreBird22]

11 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

The LG who has yet to take a real snap at LT is playing LT better than one of the highest performing rookie LTs in recent memory, because he has less penalties. 

Ok.

I think people just have unrealistic expectations. Tyron Smith and Matt Kalil are the only rookie LTs in recent memory to actually play at an above average level. Past those two, I don't think we can point to a single rookie LT who just came in and day one was dominant. 

And he's actually made two starts out at LT, I believe, and I know one was the Bengals game where he looked about as good as James Hurst.

[VermontRaven]

Early update from Hensley:

Jamison Hensley ESPN Staff Writer 

Ravens CB Jimmy Smith (back) returned to practice after missing two games. He was limited in drills and didn't look at full strength she he ran.

 

Jamison Hensley ESPN Staff Writer 

Ravens WR Steve Smith limped off to the side after crashing to the ground in one-on-one drills with Shareece Wright. Smith was looked at by trainers and continued drills.

[VermontRaven]

One more update...from Zrebiec:

 

[JoeyFlex5]

24 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think people just have unrealistic expectations. Tyron Smith and Matt Kalil are the only rookie LTs in recent memory to actually play at an above average level. Past those two, I don't think we can point to a single rookie LT who just came in and day one was dominant. 

And he's actually made two starts out at LT, I believe, and I know one was the Bengals game where he looked about as good as James Hurst.

Wasn't tyronnasaurus a guard as a rookie? I could totally be wrong.

[BmoreBird22]

24 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Wasn't tyronnasaurus a guard as a rookie? I could totally be wrong.

He was not. He was a LT, if PFF is to be believed. They're actually the ones who said Stanley might have a Smith type rookie year and actually grade out positively.

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

What was it a 52 yard field goal? Like I said, most coaches don't feel comfortable kicking that because of their kicker, it is a very distinct and big advantage that the ravens have to be able to confidently field your kicking team for a 52 yarder. Just because other teams in incomparable situations wouldn't do it, doesn't mean the same metrics apply to us. We struggle on offense, we have no reason to feel confident in any 4th down attempt, not to the point that we possibly leave 3 points on the board for, and we have a defense that puts the game further out of reach with each point scored. 

Also im not gonna argue semantics about what you think rule of thumb means and how it applies to all 32 teams in all possible situations. Obviously there's a lot of factors at play so it's a pointless discussion, BUT we have went for it on 4th down many times this season in situations where we should have taken the points and it came back to bite us, we have the best kicker in the league and he is 100% on the season with multiple kicks well over 50 yards, use that advantage, don't waste it and leave points on the field because you wanna be aggressive for the hell of it.

But that's the thing... you can't possibly say "we should have taken the points and it bites us" until AFTER you see what the result is. That's the definition of hindsight analysis. Its utterly meaningless... its never accomplished anything ever. 

Its also very clearly not just doing it "for the hell of it"... there is a GIGANTIC strategic advantage to converting a 1st down there. That was on full display to be seen by the decision and the execution of the decision. We took the ball out of the Bengals hands for 3 minutes more... and we ended up in the exact same spot... 3 more points on the board. That certainly can't even vaguely be described as doing it "for the hell of it".

And for the record, there really hasn't been ONE instance this season where we passed up points via a 4th down decision and it really came back to bite us. Here are the four situations this season that are even questionable:

• Week 2 at Browns. 
  • 4th and 2 at Browns 28, 1st play of the 2nd quarter. We are down 20-2 at the time. We did not convert this. Went on to win 25-20.
    • I suppose you could argue we could have kicked here, but we're down 18 points and our defense is struggling. No issue going for it here, and in the long term, it didn't mean much not converting.
• Week 4 vs Raiders
  • 4th and goal at the 1, middle of 3rd quarter. We are down 14-6 at the time. We scored a TD, cutting the lead to 14-12. We lost 28-27.
    • We turned 3 points into 6 points here, so obviously this paid off.
• Week 6 at Giants
  • 4th and goal at the 1, 1st play of 4th quarter. We were down 17-13 at the time. We failed to convert. We lost 27-23.
    • Again, 4th and goal at the 1. We can kick, but we're still losing in the 4th quarter by doing so, and we ultimately lost by 4, so it didn't make a difference in the ending score.
• Sunday's game vs Bengals
  • 4th and 1 at the 35, early 4th quarter. We were up 16-9 at the time. We converted and ultimately kicked a FG to go up 19-9. We won 19-14. 
    • We converted and got the same number of points on the drive, so didn't cost us.

So which one of these instances specifically did the decision backfire on us in a big way? The only one I think is even debatable is the Giants game, and you're on the 1 yard line. I'm not sure kicking is really a consideration when you're down 4 points on the 1 yard line.

I'm guessing that the instances you think you are referencing are largely the ONE time where John did the fake FG (I believe against the Redskins). 

Edited November 30, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[jboy19]

47 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Wasn't tyronnasaurus a guard as a rookie? I could totally be wrong.

He played Right Tackle his rookie year. He actually only played Right Tackle in college because Kalil beat him out for the USC Left Tackle job. 

[hereweare]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

But that's the thing... you can't possibly say "we should have taken the points and it bites us" until AFTER you see what the result is. That's the definition of hindsight analysis. Its utterly meaningless... its never accomplished anything ever. 

Its also very clearly not just doing it "for the hell of it"... there is a GIGANTIC strategic advantage to converting a 1st down there. That was on full display to be seen by the decision and the execution of the decision. We took the ball out of the Bengals hands for 3 minutes more... and we ended up in the exact same spot... 3 more points on the board. That certainly can't even vaguely be described as doing it "for the hell of it".

And for the record, there really hasn't been ONE instance this season where we passed up points via a 4th down decision and it really came back to bite us. Here are the four situations this season that are even questionable:

• Week 2 at Browns. 
  • 4th and 2 at Browns 28, 1st play of the 2nd quarter. We are down 20-2 at the time. We did not convert this. Went on to win 25-20.
    • I suppose you could argue we could have kicked here, but we're down 18 points and our defense is struggling. No issue going for it here, and in the long term, it didn't mean much not converting.
• Week 4 vs Raiders
  • 4th and goal at the 1, middle of 3rd quarter. We are down 14-6 at the time. We scored a TD, cutting the lead to 14-12. We lost 28-27.
    • We turned 3 points into 6 points here, so obviously this paid off.
• Week 6 at Giants
  • 4th and goal at the 1, 1st play of 4th quarter. We were down 17-13 at the time. We failed to convert. We lost 27-23.
    • Again, 4th and goal at the 1. We can kick, but we're still losing in the 4th quarter by doing so, and we ultimately lost by 4, so it didn't make a difference in the ending score.
• Sunday's game vs Bengals
  • 4th and 1 at the 35, early 4th quarter. We were up 16-9 at the time. We converted and ultimately kicked a FG to go up 19-9. We won 19-14. 
    • We converted and got the same number of points on the drive, so didn't cost us.

So which one of these instances specifically did the decision backfire on us in a big way? The only one I think is even debatable is the Giants game, and you're on the 1 yard line. I'm not sure kicking is really a consideration when you're down 4 points on the 1 yard line.

I'm guessing that the instances you think you are referencing are largely the ONE time where John did the fake FG (I believe against the Redskins). 

Great post, but Week 6 did backfire because it would have been 27-26 and the last drive of the game we were in FG range (needed a TD in reality). That being said, if the game was 27-26, Giants may have done things differently with their last offensive position and/or played defense differently on the last drive knowing a FG would win. So who knows.

[hereweare]

1 hour ago, VermontRaven said:

One more update...from Zrebiec:

 

I want Gillmore back so bad it hurts...

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, hereweare said:

Great post, but Week 6 did backfire because it would have been 27-26 and the last drive of the game we were in FG range (needed a TD in reality). That being said, if the game was 27-26, Giants may have done things differently with their last offensive position and/or played defense differently on the last drive knowing a FG would win. So who knows.

Yeah obviously nothing stays the same after you alter a play like that.

Can't really see a viable reason to kick a FG on the 1 yard line when you're down by more than a FG though. That's not even a decent example of what we are talking about to be honest.