Week 12: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly post game discussion/rant Bengals edition!

[kjbmore]

Watching coaches film of the game - really wish we'd start spreading teams out.

seems like we get good yardage and positive plays when we run 3 receiver sets, running out of it generates good yardage and the little dump offs to the back are a lot more effective

i really don't understand lining Steve smith up on the outside either, he's not beating anybody for speed anymore, he gets jammed at the line and he's too small to just throw back shoulders and 50/50s 

homrstly think we need to not be so Steve smith focused - would like to see his snaps decreased

put perriman and Moore on the outside - if the corner plays up take a shot if they sag take the quick pass, run Wallace out of the slot - we have so much speed lets start using it, we hsve to start using and threatening our speed

we have Wallace, Perriman and Moore - sizeable burners and we're throwing little underneath passes and dump offs to smith, Aiken and our backs

Our misdirection plays are poo too, enough already, nobody respects our sweeps

just spread our guys out and give everybody space to make plays

Edited November 29, 2016 by kjbmore

[trevorsteadman]

7 hours ago, kjbmore said:

Watching coaches film of the game - really wish we'd start spreading teams out.

seems like we get good yardage and positive plays when we run 3 receiver sets, running out of it generates good yardage and the little dump offs to the back are a lot more effective

i really don't understand lining Steve smith up on the outside either, he's not beating anybody for speed anymore, he gets jammed at the line and he's too small to just throw back shoulders and 50/50s 

homrstly think we need to not be so Steve smith focused - would like to see his snaps decreased

put perriman and Moore on the outside - if the corner plays up take a shot if they sag take the quick pass, run Wallace out of the slot - we have so much speed lets start using it, we hsve to start using and threatening our speed

we have Wallace, Perriman and Moore - sizeable burners and we're throwing little underneath passes and dump offs to smith, Aiken and our backs

Our misdirection plays are poo too, enough already, nobody respects our sweeps

just spread our guys out and give everybody space to make plays

As much as I agree Steve Smith should be mostly a slot guy at this stage in his career you have to move your pieces around to try to get different match ups and keep defenses guessing. I do agree the Ravens need to run more of those crossing routes with Wallace and Perriman because Wallace's 5 yard dink catches turn into 40 yards in half a second. I still think Steve Smith is still the best playmaker on the team though and even though he is at the late stage of his career he can still play and put the team on his back at times. 

I think our tight ends didn't pan out with all the injuries and them all stinking when playing. I think we need to switch from multiple tight ends to more of those spread sets with the speed the receivers have. We may have one of the fastest offenses out there when we put the wide receivers out on the field. Wallace, Moore, Perriman at wide out and Dixon at running back really kills teams with speed. 

[Militant X 1]

7 hours ago, kjbmore said:

Watching coaches film of the game - really wish we'd start spreading teams out.

seems like we get good yardage and positive plays when we run 3 receiver sets, running out of it generates good yardage and the little dump offs to the back are a lot more effective

i really don't understand lining Steve smith up on the outside either, he's not beating anybody for speed anymore, he gets jammed at the line and he's too small to just throw back shoulders and 50/50s 

homrstly think we need to not be so Steve smith focused - would like to see his snaps decreased

put perriman and Moore on the outside - if the corner plays up take a shot if they sag take the quick pass, run Wallace out of the slot - we have so much speed lets start using it, we hsve to start using and threatening our speed

we have Wallace, Perriman and Moore - sizeable burners and we're throwing little underneath passes and dump offs to smith, Aiken and our backs

Our misdirection plays are poo too, enough already, nobody respects our sweeps

just spread our guys out and give everybody space to make plays

Sooo, once again the coaching staff isn't utilizing the personnel properly for maximum effect?  Smh!

I've said this time and again in here.  Perriman and Wallace are our burners.  Put them to the outside to take the top off of the defense.  Move'em around to the slot periodically just to show different looks with them.  However, SSS, Aiken and Pitta are the underneath guys.  Mix in Juice, Dixon and West in the rushing attack and a few passes out of the backfield and voila!

[Filmstudy]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned much is the early reassignment of Powers.  He was twice beaten by Boyd for 18 yard gains (1 negated) in Q1, so Pees reduced his role to some 1st/2nd downs the remainder of the game (19 snaps).  After that, Webb moved to SCB on obvious passing downs and Elam played 25 snaps of safety.

Significant detail about the adjustment and other elements of the defensive effort are here:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/11/29/filmstudy/timely-results-pass-rush-bengals/

Edited November 29, 2016 by Filmstudy

[kjbmore]

1 hour ago, trevorsteadman said:

As much as I agree Steve Smith should be mostly a slot guy at this stage in his career you have to move your pieces around to try to get different match ups and keep defenses guessing. I do agree the Ravens need to run more of those crossing routes with Wallace and Perriman because Wallace's 5 yard dink catches turn into 40 yards in half a second. I still think Steve Smith is still the best playmaker on the team though and even though he is at the late stage of his career he can still play and put the team on his back at times. 

I think our tight ends didn't pan out with all the injuries and them all stinking when playing. I think we need to switch from multiple tight ends to more of those spread sets with the speed the receivers have. We may have one of the fastest offenses out there when we put the wide receivers out on the field. Wallace, Moore, Perriman at wide out and Dixon at running back really kills teams with speed. 

Watching coaches film, seems like we just keep lining Steve up outside. had a quick look at the receiving numbers couple games he missed, Wallace had good numbers, Aiken too I think - need to rewatch, 

I like when we send guys deep, with a crossing runner, or coming back into the space, or flare the back out, the deep burner clears out the space for all those options- one of Aikens receptions, first qtr, Moore runs deep, few defenders go with him for a split second, Aiken comes back - first down - was a decent chunk too

agreed re tight ends - let's just get our receivers out there and give them space, let's throw it up to our guys 

[balfan23]

12 hours ago, stan said:

That was the result of a flop, by the linebacker Burfict, a technique perfected and used liberally by Wes Welker when he was a Patriot, of course. Not SSS's fault.

Fair enough ... I probably should not have cited that one in my response. However, you must admit - that one penalty that Lewis declined has been the type that has cost us 3 points on numerous occasions this season and they drive me nuts. And the penalties at the end of the game very nearly sunk us. It took an impressive final series by our defensive front swatting down balls and Doom strip sacking the QB to get the win, where a clean finish we would very likely have had a comfortable win rather than a nail-biter. 

[rmw10]

26 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

One thing I haven't seen mentioned much is the early reassignment of Powers.  He was twice beaten by Boyd for 18 yard gains (1 negated) in Q1, so Pees reduced his role to some 1st/2nd downs the remainder of the game (19 snaps).  After that, Webb moved to SCB on obvious passing downs and Elam played 25 snaps of safety.

Significant detail about the adjustment and other elements of the defensive effort are here:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/11/29/filmstudy/timely-results-pass-rush-bengals/

Powers has been exposed the last 2 games.  Thought he was playing reasonably well in the weeks leading up to Dallas, but really fell hard against Cole Beasley and had a short leash against Boyd.  I will say though... Boyd is good.  That route running is top notch for a rookie.

[rmcjacket23]

At the bottom is FilmStudy's review of the defense for the Bengals game. Some interesting points I noticed (emphasis on the pass rush):

1. Dalton had ATS on just 51% of dropbacks, so the Ravens were effective in their pressure about half the dropbacks. 

2. Effective with our 4 and 5 man pressures... provided pressure on 48% of dropbacks on when rushing 4 or 5.

3. Some big time key adjustments from Pees really helped things...

• 25 Bengals snaps in the 4th quarter
• 8 of the last 10 snaps provided quality pass rush pressure
• Judon was rested... played only 6 snaps in the 4th quarter
• Swapped out Jernigan for Urban
• Heavy pressure from Suggs and Dumervil

4. One other key adjustment that seemed to have paid off was taking Powers out of obvious passing down situations (he was getting burned early) and moving Webb down to corner and inserting Elam in at safety.

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/11/29/filmstudy/timely-results-pass-rush-bengals/

[January J]

3 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

As much as I agree Steve Smith should be mostly a slot guy at this stage in his career you have to move your pieces around to try to get different match ups and keep defenses guessing. I do agree the Ravens need to run more of those crossing routes with Wallace and Perriman because Wallace's 5 yard dink catches turn into 40 yards in half a second. I still think Steve Smith is still the best playmaker on the team though and even though he is at the late stage of his career he can still play and put the team on his back at times. 

I think our tight ends didn't pan out with all the injuries and them all stinking when playing. I think we need to switch from multiple tight ends to more of those spread sets with the speed the receivers have. We may have one of the fastest offenses out there when we put the wide receivers out on the field. Wallace, Moore, Perriman at wide out and Dixon at running back really kills teams with speed. 

I also think we have got to start utilizing waller more in the passing game. Particularly in the redzone. Its a no brainer- stop throwing to receivers under 6 feet tall and throw it up to the tall dude who can go up and get it. Havent really seen us do it once- aside from the browns game but even that wasnt a jumpball / back shoulder fade type throw. The pats do it with gronk and are successful 85% of the time. Pitta hasn't been doing much- hopefully crock gets back and can provide a little spark.. But I also would like to see us get the ball to Boyle- he surprised the heck out of me last year and always seemed to make things happen and fight for YAC.

1 hour ago, Filmstudy said:

One thing I haven't seen mentioned much is the early reassignment of Powers.  He was twice beaten by Boyd for 18 yard gains (1 negated) in Q1, so Pees reduced his role to some 1st/2nd downs the remainder of the game (19 snaps).  After that, Webb moved to SCB on obvious passing downs and Elam played 25 snaps of safety.

Significant detail about the adjustment and other elements of the defensive effort are here:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/11/29/filmstudy/timely-results-pass-rush-bengals/

Yeah I noticed Elam got some playing time but didn't really see how he did- heard he missed a few tackles? Curious why Levine hasn't been used on defense much.

[PurpleCity5]

27 minutes ago, January J said:

Yeah I noticed Elam got some playing time but didn't really see how he did- heard he missed a few tackles? Curious why Levine hasn't been used on defense much.

Levine is a guy you'll see on Dime packages. I don't think Levine will be seen at the slot often, I don't know if he's fully capable of playing there at the moment. He's a guy who plays the hybrid S/LB role and the dime when we put out 4 CBs. That's when I see him most. It's curious considering that we employ plenty of 4-3 so you would expect to see him more but it seems that Elam has cut into his playing time as well. 

[Filmstudy]

6 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

At the bottom is FilmStudy's review of the defense for the Bengals game. Some interesting points I noticed (emphasis on the pass rush):

1. Dalton had ATS on just 51% of dropbacks, so the Ravens were effective in their pressure about half the dropbacks. 

2. Effective with our 4 and 5 man pressures... provided pressure on 48% of dropbacks on when rushing 4 or 5.

3. Some big time key adjustments from Pees really helped things...

• 25 Bengals snaps in the 4th quarter
• 8 of the last 10 snaps provided quality pass rush pressure
• Judon was rested... played only 6 snaps in the 4th quarter
• Swapped out Jernigan for Urban
• Heavy pressure from Suggs and Dumervil

4. One other key adjustment that seemed to have paid off was taking Powers out of obvious passing down situations (he was getting burned early) and moving Webb down to corner and inserting Elam in at safety.

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/11/29/filmstudy/timely-results-pass-rush-bengals/

Thanks for this summary, @rmcjacket23 .  I like to use bullets to make subpoints, but I can't in my pieces, because it doesn't show up well when read on typical mobile phone browsers.  No, I'm not kidding.

Anyway, this is a much clearer summary of the items in 3, in particular.

It's unfortunate they probably won't be able to block passes against too many QBs.  Dalton is 6'2" and every other QB the rest of the way is 6'4" and up.  However, if you look, the Ravens weren't just blocking those passes with their fingertips. 

[Filmstudy]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Levine is a guy you'll see on Dime packages. I don't think Levine will be seen at the slot often, I don't know if he's fully capable of playing there at the moment. He's a guy who plays the hybrid S/LB role and the dime when we put out 4 CBs. That's when I see him most. It's curious considering that we employ plenty of 4-3 so you would expect to see him more but it seems that Elam has cut into his playing time as well. 

I sooo want this to actually be true, but the Ravens have not played a snap of dime since Mosley returned and they played just 1 dime snap prior to his injury against the Skins.  

I'm not shocked Elam got the back-end playing time he did against the Bengals, but Levine has slipped on the depth chart since the start of the season despite a number of injuries. 

On Sunday Elam missed a tackle on Burkhead (stiffarm) and fell down in coverage of Eifert (Q4, 1:27) on the 4th and 3 conversion when Eifert pushed off for separation and Matt tried to recover.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Filmstudy

[trevorsteadman]

1 hour ago, January J said:

I also think we have got to start utilizing waller more in the passing game. Particularly in the redzone. Its a no brainer- stop throwing to receivers under 6 feet tall and throw it up to the tall dude who can go up and get it. Havent really seen us do it once- aside from the browns game but even that wasnt a jumpball / back shoulder fade type throw. The pats do it with gronk and are successful 85% of the time. Pitta hasn't been doing much- hopefully crock gets back and can provide a little spark.. But I also would like to see us get the ball to Boyle- he surprised the heck out of me last year and always seemed to make things happen and fight for YAC.

Yeah I noticed Elam got some playing time but didn't really see how he did- heard he missed a few tackles? Curious why Levine hasn't been used on defense much.

I actually have wondered why we don't use Waller more... Sure he is raw and his routes are far from desired but he seems to make plays out there and anyone isa better blocker than Pitta. Pitta looked good coming out of the gate but our tight ends have been lackluster this season after they claimed to be the best group in the league. Injuries didn't help and thank goodness for the depth but still.

[PurpleCity5]

2 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

I sooo want this to actually be true, but the Ravens have not played a snap of dime since Mosley returned and they played just 1 dime snap prior to his injury against the Skins.  

I'm not shocked Elam got the back-end playing time he did against the Bengals, but Levine has slipped on the depth chart since the start of the season despite a number of injuries. 

I haven't seen any Dime either which is why I personally don't think we've seen Levine. I thought we did throw in a few dime packages but it does make sense if we've only thrown in 1. Dime package takes away a Linebacker or a DL and you're not taking Mosley/Orr off the field. Teams don't play 4 WR sets often either, you don't see them much, in fact we rarely do it ourselves, this is partly why you're not seeing the dime package often. Now, you can still play the dime against a 3 WR set, but why take CJ or Orr off the field? I saw Levine against the Jets and Giants, but after that he's nowhere to be found, it could have been in the 4-3 because I think I saw him make a run stop through the middle of the weak-side but I could be wrong. 

Elam returning I think had to do with the experience at that position. He also might look better than Levine from the coaches POV. 

[Rav'n Maniac]

Even though the Bengals lost to us, they should hold their heads high as they are still the best team in Ohio.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Rav'n Maniac

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Levine is a guy you'll see on Dime packages. I don't think Levine will be seen at the slot often, I don't know if he's fully capable of playing there at the moment. He's a guy who plays the hybrid S/LB role and the dime when we put out 4 CBs. That's when I see him most. It's curious considering that we employ plenty of 4-3 so you would expect to see him more but it seems that Elam has cut into his playing time as well. 

Elam must be really playing well at practice like reports always hyped him up. Because his play on the field hasn't warranted playing time lol.

[Filmstudy]

55 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I haven't seen any Dime either which is why I personally don't think we've seen Levine. I thought we did throw in a few dime packages but it does make sense if we've only thrown in 1. Dime package takes away a Linebacker or a DL and you're not taking Mosley/Orr off the field. Teams don't play 4 WR sets often either, you don't see them much, in fact we rarely do it ourselves, this is partly why you're not seeing the dime package often. Now, you can still play the dime against a 3 WR set, but why take CJ or Orr off the field? I saw Levine against the Jets and Giants, but after that he's nowhere to be found, it could have been in the 4-3 because I think I saw him make a run stop through the middle of the weak-side but I could be wrong. 

Elam returning I think had to do with the experience at that position. He also might look better than Levine from the coaches POV. 

You're exactly right about when you saw Levine.  He played dime after Mosley's injury versus the Skins, then against the Giants and Jets in that same dime role.  Mosley returned after the bye and we have not seen Levine on defense since except for the final series at cover-2 safety against the Browns.  He played some nickel in the first several games as well.

There are really 2 players keeping Levine off the field in passing situations, and Mosley isn't one of them, because he's the signal caller.  The 2 are:

Orr: Who has difficulty in coverage, despite being a decent pass rusher and some speed.

McClellan: Who is a regular moving piece in the 5-up, 1-down pass rush lineup Pees often fields (Jernigan, 2 OLBs, Mosely, Orr, McClellan).  McClellan is a fish out of water in coverage and despite a recent sack, has no more ability to get to the QB than Levine (both need to use quickness and would have great difficulty winning a 1-on-1 battle).  As an aside, McClellan lined up at DT from a 4-point stance on the 3rd and 22 play (Q4, 6:53) and was flagged for IH.

There are 2 ways to get Levine on: 1) Move Orr up to the LoS and remove McClellan 2) Remove Orr for Levine.  Either way should give the Ravens more coverage options with little reduction in pass rush.  The 2000 Ravens used method 2) to replace Jamie Sharper on 3rd down (with Corey Harris).  The following year, Sharper became an integral part of the pass defense, so they used method 1), but still played a dime DB next to Ray Lewis.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Filmstudy

[Cillmatic]

It looks like the great Z'Darius-Judon war is over. Z was inactive in favor of Judon and I heard that Harbaugh admitted that Judon out-produced him. I really think he can be a valuable player.

[Tornado700]

I just can't see them beating the Miami football squad. Hee heee. Can you? Esplain please.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Tornado700 said:

I just can't see them beating the Miami football squad. Hee heee. Can you? Esplain please.

Yes. They ride their run game on offense. Make tannehill one dimensional and have Landry totally shut down vs Jimmy Smith and then watch Parker have a really tough game vs tavon young who has the perfect skill set for this matchup. They won't move the ball effectively, and if we can continue to swat passes then tannehill will struggle as he's mostly a dink and dunk qb. 

The one worry is their interior DL vs our OL.

[Halshayeji]

On November 28, 2016 at 0:11 AM, Ravenseconbeast said:

Another garbage performance by Joe Flacco.   Had over 13 drives to do something.   Last drive he had to keep the drives going.  Instead he only lasted a full minute and 12 seconds.   By some miracle we batted +5 balls off of Dalton on that last drive and stripped him off his ball.   Miracle defense play.   

Worse than Kyle Boller in every shape and form possible by Joe Fluker.   I told you he wasn't going to do squat after 1st drive.   He nearly ended our season.  Glad we are still alive.  Thanks to the Defense!

Wooooow 18 thumbs down! Sometimes the truth hurts lol

maybe delete the second paragraph and post again. Let's see if anyone agrees

[Tornado700]

On 11/28/2016 at 9:42 PM, stan said:

That was the result of a flop, by the linebacker Burfict, a technique perfected and used liberally by Wes Welker when he was a Patriot, of course. Not SSS's fault.

Of course he flopped, but without Steve Smith getting in his grill, the criminal Burflict doesn't get away with that.