[News] Eisenberg: Penalties Are Threatening Ravens Season

[BR News]

Generally, a team beats itself in one of two ways: turnovers or penalties. After fixing last season's turnover problem, the Ravens are now trying to nip their game-changing penalties in the bud.

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[b93333]

No doubt the offense has been our weak link all season. Our center has often played poorly. Our offensive line is different each week due to injuries. Our QB is ranked 24th in the league (up at least from 29th) per PFF. I believe the penalties often arise from frustration and from trying to protect a QB who holds the ball too long and has trouble with his progressions. Our QB has the highest average salary of any QB in the NFL over the life of his contract (per the Cheat sheet) but seems disinterested in the game at times. Regardless of how this year ends the FO needs to take a hard look at how the offense is put together in terms of salary cap space vs productivity.

Edited November 26, 2016 by b93333
Spelling error

[hereweare]

Well those stats make the penalties fairly easy to explain. 28 of the 43 offensive penalties come from the Oline. An Oline that has dealt with injuries and different combinations every week while struggling to protect Joe and produce in the run game. They're competing and gambling at times in order to survive. Oline hasn't had it easy this year

[whobilly]

This is usually the case with mediocre teams isn't it?

[bluehen]

Poor coaching, poor talent of both!

[MadStorkSociety]

Well those stats make the penalties fairly easy to explain. 28 of the 43 offensive penalties come from the Oline. An Oline that has dealt with injuries and different combinations every week while struggling to protect Joe and produce in the run game. They're competing and gambling at times in order to survive. Oline hasn't had it easy this year

So do you think another OL first round pick is in order?

[hereweare]

  4 hours ago, hereweare said:

Well those stats make the penalties fairly easy to explain. 28 of the 43 offensive penalties come from the Oline. An Oline that has dealt with injuries and different combinations every week while struggling to protect Joe and produce in the run game. They're competing and gambling at times in order to survive. Oline hasn't had it easy this year

So do you think another OL first round pick is in order?

Lol maybe. Don't forget there's two rookies playing, a hurt Yanda and an under performing center.
Stanley has been hurt. Top 10 pick means he should contribute right away (and he has), but that doesn't mean he won't have rookie growing pains.

[Grapple Raven]

"The offense is the chief culprit, having committed 43 penalties compared to 24 on the defense, according to ESPN. The Ravens’ 19 offensive holding penalties leads the NFL, and the unit also has accumulated flags for false starts (nine), delays of game (five), illegal shifts (three) and illegal formations (two) – all according to ESPN."

In my mind, there are two kinds of penalties:  Procedural calls like delay of game, illegal shifts & formations, offsides, etc., those are on the coaches.   Judgmental calls like holding, roughing the passer, pass interference, etc., yes while those are on the players...if you play the exact same game, same scenario the following week with a different set of officials, those judgmental calls may or may not be called.  Most coaches tell their o-lines to hold every snap because the officials can't see them all and eventually they'll get tired and stop calling them for fear of delaying the game too much.  Clean up the technique for the procedural calls and learn to hide the holding calls better, lol.

[Halshayeji]

25 minutes ago, Grapple Raven said:

"The offense is the chief culprit, having committed 43 penalties compared to 24 on the defense, according to ESPN. The Ravens’ 19 offensive holding penalties leads the NFL, and the unit also has accumulated flags for false starts (nine), delays of game (five), illegal shifts (three) and illegal formations (two) – all according to ESPN."

In my mind, there are two kinds of penalties:  Procedural calls like delay of game, illegal shifts & formations, offsides, etc., those are on the coaches.   Judgmental calls like holding, roughing the passer, pass interference, etc., yes while those are on the players...if you play the exact same game, same scenario the following week with a different set of officials, those judgmental calls may or may not be called.  Most coaches tell their o-lines to hold every snap because the officials can't see them all and eventually they'll get tired and stop calling them for fear of delaying the game too much.  Clean up the technique for the procedural calls and learn to hide the holding calls better, lol.

The delay of games penalties I also put on the coach because he can call a timeout to avoid it. That's unacceptable, but Flacco has to also wake up a bit. 5 delay of games and at least 5 timeouts we've already burned to avoid some.

Holding penalties are killing us and we need to hold back in the passing game a bit because that's when players usually hold! Just last game, we had two holds on second and 5 or 6. Run the damn ball! You still have third to throw if the run fails and its still a makable third!

Prioritize the run and the passing game will eventually get its opportunities! Not the other way around when your Oline is struggling to protect. 

[balfan23]

35 minutes ago, Grapple Raven said:

"The offense is the chief culprit, having committed 43 penalties compared to 24 on the defense, according to ESPN. The Ravens’ 19 offensive holding penalties leads the NFL, and the unit also has accumulated flags for false starts (nine), delays of game (five), illegal shifts (three) and illegal formations (two) – all according to ESPN."

In my mind, there are two kinds of penalties:  Procedural calls like delay of game, illegal shifts & formations, offsides, etc., those are on the coaches.   Judgmental calls like holding, roughing the passer, pass interference, etc., yes while those are on the players...if you play the exact same game, same scenario the following week with a different set of officials, those judgmental calls may or may not be called.  Most coaches tell their o-lines to hold every snap because the officials can't see them all and eventually they'll get tired and stop calling them for fear of delaying the game too much.  Clean up the technique for the procedural calls and learn to hide the holding calls better, lol.

I agree about there being 2 different kind of penalties, but what I also see in the "judgement call" side - particularly with respect to holding - have not been an issue of technique. Particularly when the line was in flux, these penalties were due to getting beaten badly and holding in desperation. That's not a mental mistake or anything that can get cleaned up through discipline - that's just getting beat.

I'm hoping that the o line's shuffle is over (and that we will have Boyle to finish out the season and be a TE who at least has a prayer of helping in the blocking game). If that is the case, then I'm hoping a lot of these deadly holding penalties we commit on the opponent's 35 will start turning into at least 3 points instead of a punt from midfield. 

[Ravensfolyfe]

Hopefully the penalty habit might eventually dwindle he says. Smh!

[balfan23]

8 hours ago, hereweare said:

Well those stats make the penalties fairly easy to explain. 28 of the 43 offensive penalties come from the Oline. An Oline that has dealt with injuries and different combinations every week while struggling to protect Joe and produce in the run game. They're competing and gambling at times in order to survive. Oline hasn't had it easy this year

Exactly. I know a lot of people like to point the finger at the staff for a lack of discipline over a team when they have high penalty totals. That's when the penalties involve mental mistake or lack of control ... but many of the penalties we've had were more about holding on for "survival" as you say.

We need to get some consistency through the rest of the season regarding our personnel up front on offence to get this penalty total to come down. 

[Crusader]

  On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 11:28 AM, hereweare said:

Well those stats make the penalties fairly easy to explain. 28 of the 43 offensive penalties come from the Oline. An Oline that has dealt with injuries and different combinations every week while struggling to protect Joe and produce in the run game. They're competing and gambling at times in order to survive. Oline hasn't had it easy this year

Exactly. I know a lot of people like to point the finger at the staff for a lack of discipline over a team when they have high penalty totals. That's when the penalties involve mental mistake or lack of control ... but many of the penalties we've had were more about holding on for "survival" as you say.

We need to get some consistency through the rest of the season regarding our personnel up front on offence to get this penalty total to come down. 

Who put those players on the team?

[Crusader]

Penalties are also a sign the coaches are or have lost this team. Just ask Brian B especially after the Detroit game.

[Crusader]

  On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 11:28 AM, hereweare said:

Well those stats make the penalties fairly easy to explain. 28 of the 43 offensive penalties come from the Oline. An Oline that has dealt with injuries and different combinations every week while struggling to protect Joe and produce in the run game. They're competing and gambling at times in order to survive. Oline hasn't had it easy this year

So do you think another OL first round pick is in order?

I would say so because Ozzie is not to bad at picking them. It also easy when you pick in the top 5

[Zeus]

Ten games done and nothing has changed on the penalty situation. I had Big hopes that this season would be a big improvement from last and the best thing to happen this season was saying goodbye to Trestman!

[Ravenous_Ravens]

Penalties are definitely an issue but for arguments sake put things into perspective. The reality is in years past with an older roster on average, the penalties were fewer mostly due to experience having gotten past the bad habits, etc. With a much younger roster in general it should be expected to some degree that penalties will be an issue for a bit, which we are seeing now. Call it growing pains. It is very rare to experience real growth at anything without first struggling, after all mistakes are the greatest teachers, they are not biased.

[sizzlingdoom]

Harbaugh , Flacco and a 1rst and 2nd rounder for Wilson and Carrol

[Crusader]

Author need to choose his words better. "Now trying to nip game changing penalties in the bud" Really, ten games in the season? I hope that did not come from "castle ".

[Crusader]

Ten games done and nothing has changed on the penalty situation. I had Big hopes that this season would be a big improvement from last and the best thing to happen this season was saying goodbye to Trestman!

But we got Tresman now. Eagles called it Mary ball for a reason. So when this crew of Eagles worked together how did they do? That is who running the Ravens.

[Crusader]

  On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 10:45 PM, Zeus said:

Ten games done and nothing has changed on the penalty situation. I had Big hopes that this season would be a big improvement from last and the best thing to happen this season was saying goodbye to Trestman!

But we got Tresman now. Eagles called it Mary ball for a reason. So when this crew of Eagles worked together how did they do? That is who running the Ravens.

That was to be Treasonman-2

[BigUgly]

So if the Ravens have the ultimate coaching staff (both in terms of pedigree and numbers), hand-picked by Harbs and handsomely compensated by Bisciotti, and we have drafted intelligent, high-character players with high football IQs, how can we consistently have penalty issues? There has to be a root cause.

I think its a mix of poor schemes that put under-talented players in difficult positions to succeed. On the OL, only Yanda seems able to cope with a mish-mash of zone blocking and power blocking, Joe can't progress through a West Coast interpretation of Kubiak's offense, and the defensive secondary tries to cover big #1 receivers after allowing them 10 yard cushions.

[sizzlingdoom]

So if the Ravens have the ultimate coaching staff (both in terms of pedigree and numbers), hand-picked by Harbs and handsomely compensated by Bisciotti, and we have drafted intelligent, high-character players with high football IQs, how can we consistently have penalty issues? There has to be a root cause.

I think its a mix of poor schemes that put under-talented players in difficult positions to succeed. On the OL, only Yanda seems able to cope with a mish-mash of zone blocking and power blocking, Joe can't progress through a West Coast interpretation of Kubiak's offense, and the defensive secondary tries to cover big #1 receivers after allowing them 10 yard cushions.

Excellent post. Harbaugh seems clueless at times- penalties and clock management/
I still think we would've won last week if Jimmy plays. Part of the game. No excuses. If Joe turns it on at all good luck beating this team

[balfan23]

12 hours ago, Crusader said:

Penalties are also a sign the coaches are or have lost this team. Just ask Brian B especially after the Detroit game.

I had been trying to say in my post that stated I don't think we're suffering from discipline based penalties, but a lack of quality O line depth. Your response was "who put those players on the team?". OK - fair enough. Coaching doesn't get a free pass on this, but can you not see there is a difference between not having quality depth and the kind of discipline related problems you seem to also want to attribute to the situation by making a post saying that the coaches have lost the team? 

Sure, we can either blame the front office for not finding quality depth or blame the coaches for not getting those depth players better prepared. You simply can't have starter quality players backing up every starter, but I'll grant you that the drop off at some of these o line positions has been a little alarming and has been much greater than I thought it would be. Again - the majority of the penalties I'm seeing aren't of the ilk where the players are just loose cannons out there making stupid, undisciplined mistakes and that they don't care what the coaches think. So, if you see other evidence of the coaches having lost the team, please elaborate. 

[ravens4life86]

Penalties are 2 things... lack of discipline and lack of talent.

1, Penalties like Illegal shifts, holding calls( for pro bowl ceiling rookies like Lewis,Stanley), false starts all FIXABLE...lack of discipline calls.

However, continuous pi's on veteran cbs like Wright, or others or veteran Oline like Zuttah continuously getting called for holding,..because they are avg talent when you look at their positions.