[News] Late For Work 11/23: Early Ravens Contract Watching For 2017

[BR News]

Ray Lewis is welcome at Joe Flacco's house for Thanksgiving. Ravens were left with little choice but to abandon the run. Are penalties a result of coaching or overmatched players? Steve Smith gear headed to Hall of Fame. Ravens need to find a new No. 3 quarterback.

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[iluvpurple]

The biggest thing that jumps right out at me on the free-agent list is Brandon Williams...... Smith Sr will most likely retire, so I am hoping the organization is saving all spare change and then some to keep Brandon ?

[sami]

we are never going to have a great offensive line if we keep letting them walk. We do need a new center but we need to retain Stanley, Lewis, Yanda and Wagner.

[RavenzOz]

Have a feeling Brandon will be priced out of the Ravens by one of those dumpster fire teams that think signing a single player for $60m will fix all their problems.
I think if the "stick with us we get players rings around here" line was gonna work, a deal would have been struck already.  Everyone already knows how good the guy is.
Not saying anything bad, just feel like that's where it's at right now.

Edited November 23, 2016 by RavenzOz

[RavenzOz]

Also I would like to see SSS stick around for another year because:
1) he has the gas in the tank (and a super-charger under the hood)
2) the ring feels like it is within reach, and I want to see him get one
3) one more good season and he could quite easily hit no.3 on the all time receiving yards list ... very achievable

[Drew P]

14 minutes ago, RavenzOz said:

Have a feeling Brandon will be priced out of the Ravens by one of those dumpster fire teams that think signing a single player for $60m will fix all their problems.
I think if the "stick with us we get players rings around here" line was gonna work, a deal would have been struck already.  Everyone already knows how good the guy is.
Not saying anything bad, just feel like that's where it's at right now.

Potentially, but keep in mind his game is stuffing the run and not so much pressuring the QB

[hereweare]

we are never going to have a great offensive line if we keep letting them walk. We do need a new center but we need to retain Stanley, Lewis, Yanda and Wagner.

Traditional thinking would be " we can't pay them all" (and the FO drafts oline/dline very well). So with Yanda, Stanley, and Lewis around until 2020 that leaves Wagner out.

Though, Flacco's best times came under a top OL. 2012 playoffs when Mckinney got it together and played LT and then all of 2014 the OL played extremely well.

[TheConquerorWorm]

Have a feeling Brandon will be priced out of the Ravens by one of those dumpster fire teams that think signing a single player for $60m will fix all their problems.
I think if the "stick with us we get players rings around here" line was gonna work, a deal would have been struck already.  Everyone already knows how good the guy is.
Not saying anything bad, just feel like that's where it's at right now.

$60 million, I wish. BWill is going to want Malik Jackson - Fletcher Cox type money. Try $100 million+

[hen826957]

I wonder what's Seattle strategy because they sign Kam Chancellor, Russell, Wilson, Richard Sherman, Michael Bennett, Bobby Wagner, etc to big contracts and still have cap space. They get to keep thier good players while we can't. The Ravens are not good at signing players and managing the cap. They need to resign the good players they need to keep. They can't just keep letting develop players walk and hope of a draft pick to replace them. It's just not gonna work all the time. They should do everything they can to resign Brandon Williams. They should cut Shareece Wright and Jermey Zuttah next year. Resign Kamar Aiken, Anthony Levine Sr, Brandon Williams, Ryan Mallett, and even Steve Smith (if he decides to come back one more year). Sign sign a big physical corner in free agency along with a new veteran center and a decent RT. Then in the draft, draft mostly defense; Passrushers, corners, etc because Suggs is getting up there.

[hereweare]

9 minutes ago, hen826957 said:

I wonder what's Seattle strategy because they sign Kam Chancellor, Russell, Wilson, Richard Sherman, Michael Bennett, Bobby Wagner, etc to big contracts and still have cap space. They get to keep thier good players while we can't. The Ravens are not good at signing players and managing the cap. They need to resign the good players they need to keep. They can't just keep letting develop players walk and hope of a draft pick to replace them. It's just not gonna work all the time. They should do everything they can to resign Brandon Williams. They should cut Shareece Wright and Jermey Zuttah next year. Resign Kamar Aiken, Anthony Levine Sr, Brandon Williams, Ryan Mallett, and even Steve Smith (if he decides to come back one more year). Sign sign a big physical corner in free agency along with a new veteran center and a decent RT. Then in the draft, draft mostly defense; Passrushers, corners, etc because Suggs is getting up there.

Seahawks we're unable to re-sign Okung, Browner, maxwell and Irvin in recent years. But even so, they're philosophy is that they have a defense that can win super bowls. So retain the core and spend money on that side of the ball keeping it a top unit every year. They spend pennies on Offense outside of QB Wilson, WR Baldwin and TE Graham.

[whobilly]

B Williams the ONLY IMPACT player on the Unrestricted FA list that we need to keep.

[eze17]

I wonder what's Seattle strategy because they sign Kam Chancellor, Russell, Wilson, Richard Sherman, Michael Bennett, Bobby Wagner, etc to big contracts and still have cap space. They get to keep thier good players while we can't. The Ravens are not good at signing players and managing the cap. They need to resign the good players they need to keep. They can't just keep letting develop players walk and hope of a draft pick to replace them. It's just not gonna work all the time. They should do everything they can to resign Brandon Williams. They should cut Shareece Wright and Jermey Zuttah next year. Resign Kamar Aiken, Anthony Levine Sr, Brandon Williams, Ryan Mallett, and even Steve Smith (if he decides to come back one more year). Sign sign a big physical corner in free agency along with a new veteran center and a decent RT. Then in the draft, draft mostly defense; Passrushers, corners, etc because Suggs is getting up there.

Seahawks are not some kind of salary cap wizards. Sure, they've signed some of their star players, but at cap friendly numbers in the earlier parts of their contracts, with the bigger money coming on the tail end. Just like Flacco's contract didn't really start crunching the Ravens for the first couple of years. Also, you need to look at their offensive line, which is nearly as piece-meal as you can get, and the fact that they have virtually no consistent running game. If you pay big for some positions, you're going to have to make do with sub-par units (or at least cheaper paid players) on other parts of the team. No team in the league can keep all it's great players..no one. It's just a matter of deciding who you really want to build around.

I know everyone would love to see Williams back in purple and black next year, but will it be worth paying him 100 mil. contract? That's the big question we need to decide this off season. And with the dearth of reliable QB"s out there, Mallett is going to be paid decent coin next year, so he will not come cheaply either. Although Wright and Zuttah have definately not played up to their potential, cutting them would save us little in cap space due to the "dead" money still counting against the cap. So you either eat their contracts and lose money, or hope they can get it together and play more consistent.

As for other FA's on our team, i'd expect us to re-sign Juice, Levine and maybe Guy rather easily if we want to, with Aiken probably wanting to test the market to try and land with a team that would give him more playing time than the Raven's seem to be willing to give him. As far as SSS goes, that's entirely on him. I.m positive the Raven's would pay him well if he wants to go one more year.

[ravens4life86]

Ive been looking over the Cap situation and upcoming FAs etc.
Theres only 1 key guy Ravens gotta really try to keep. Big Brandon Williams, a franchise DT/NT. They let Ngata go, and we finally built up a brick wall ofProbowlers Williams,Jernigan etc you gotta try and keep em or else its an endless cycle of redrafting the same position letting cornerstone players walk. As far as players I think should be cut, in order to get younger and save money.. both Dumervil& Webb have Cap savings of 6mil and 5mil with dead money in 2 mil range. So cut both of those guys Ravens could gain 11mil in cap.

Then priority no.1 fix the Oline, the Pass rush( if Dum gets cut) and 2ndary
You have Stanley LT, Yanda, Lewis Starting Gs..Wagner will be gone, Zuttah is avg, and they have zero depth.

So either in FAs Ravns need to bring in JC Tretter GB Center Fa, etc
Or better yet Im always on the mock drafts
A guy like Dan Feeney best G in college football from Indiana top 2rnd pick,
or 1 of the many T/C, G/C in the 1st few rounds from OSUs Eefrin, to Michigans, to LSU Pocic. Gotta beef up the Protection,

Secondly get a 2nd shutdown CB opposite Jimmy Smith. Someone atleast 6ft 200lbs. So whether thats projected 1st rnd pick Desmond King, Adoree Jackson, or top 2 rnd picks like Corderea Tankersley, Tradavius White etc

Then of course arguably most importantly Pass rush. You never have enough.
If you cut Dum, and dont resign Williams.. That shifts full attention back to the defensive front 7. You gotta draft Franchise edge rusher rnd 1, big block eater NT/DT eventually top 3 rounds. Etc

[bioLarzen]

B Williams the ONLY IMPACT player on the Unrestricted FA list that we need to keep.

He is about the only one we don't "have to" keep - at least not at all costs. With Jernigan and an ascending Pierce at helm Williams is expendable if he gets too expensive on the market - and he is just about guaranteed to be.

The Ravens have never gone into bidding wars - even for player in positions where had no real depth. We now have at NT. Sad, but Brandon will in all likelihood, be the next star leaving us via free agency. Grubbs, Ellerbe, McPhee, Torrey Smith, KO - now him. He's gonna be way too expensive.

I think we should make retaining Wagner the top priority. That's much more realistic.

[rmcjacket23]

  2 hours ago, RavenzOz said:

Have a feeling Brandon will be priced out of the Ravens by one of those dumpster fire teams that think signing a single player for $60m will fix all their problems.
I think if the "stick with us we get players rings around here" line was gonna work, a deal would have been struck already.  Everyone already knows how good the guy is.
Not saying anything bad, just feel like that's where it's at right now.

$60 million, I wish. BWill is going to want Malik Jackson - Fletcher Cox type money. Try $100 million+

Well, he can want all he wants, but he won't get close to that.

He doesn't play the same position as those guys, nor does he pass rush, which both of those guys do.

Damon Harrison money is what he will be looking for and probably get.

[eze17]

  2 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

  2 hours ago, RavenzOz said:

Have a feeling Brandon will be priced out of the Ravens by one of those dumpster fire teams that think signing a single player for $60m will fix all their problems.
I think if the "stick with us we get players rings around here" line was gonna work, a deal would have been struck already.  Everyone already knows how good the guy is.
Not saying anything bad, just feel like that's where it's at right now.

$60 million, I wish. BWill is going to want Malik Jackson - Fletcher Cox type money. Try $100 million+

Well, he can want all he wants, but he won't get close to that.

He doesn't play the same position as those guys, nor does he pass rush, which both of those guys do.

Damon Harrison money is what he will be looking for and probably get.

Agree with you in principle, and he probably won't get 100 mil. contract (I used that as a lazy number in my earlier post just to express he's going to be paid mucho dollars), but with the NFL market these days it could evolve into something crazy. I expected KO to get a nice chunk of change last year, but Oakland basically threw LT money at him. There could be a team out there that's determined to "make a splash" and go hog wild on spending. He definately is one of the best run stoppers, so it's going to be interesting what he's actually going to command on the open market. Harrison is a good hallmark to set him against, but I wouldn't be surprised if he could end up topping that contract.

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, eze17 said:

Agree with you in principle, and he probably won't get 100 mil. contract (I used that as a lazy number in my earlier post just to express he's going to be paid mucho dollars), but with the NFL market these days it could evolve into something crazy. I expected KO to get a nice chunk of change last year, but Oakland basically threw LT money at him. There could be a team out there that's determined to "make a splash" and go hog wild on spending. He definately is one of the best run stoppers, so it's going to be interesting what he's actually going to command on the open market. Harrison is a good hallmark to set him against, but I wouldn't be surprised if he could end up topping that contract.

Sure, he could top it, because in the grand scheme of things, Harrison's contract isn't that "huge". Its $9.25M AAV, and its $24M guaranteed.

So I think Williams could probably get $10M in AAV with maybe in the neighborhood of $30M guaranteed. But neither of those numbers are even close to the range of deals like Malik Jackson or Fletcher Cox, because those guys are pass rushers and Williams isn't.

Even with those numbers, you're probably looking at a 5 year, $50-60M deal with roughly half guaranteed. That's probably the ceiling for the type of deal he would get.

I personally think he won't even get that. I the Giants were extremely desperate for a run stopper and had plenty of cap to spend, making it the perfect storm. Harrison's contract was significantly larger than anything we had seen from a 3-4 NT league-wide, and that's also due to the Giants thinking they could convert him into a 4-3 DT, which is what they've done.

He's an odd case. If you follow the logic of what most media people think teams do, teams typically only spend top dollar on defense on pass rushers and corners. Brandon Williams is neither of those things.

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[dirtybird66]

it would be real nice to drop that 24 million for a BACKUP QB in FLACCO,a huge ancor on backup with a strong arm but no leadership skills.

[dirtybird66]

penalties at this point cetainly are on the players,as it continues it tells me theyr'e not responding to a coach they don't like or respect anymore and want him gone,take the BACKUP/ELITE QB with him!

[Drew P]

Mallett jumps out at me because they still miss on every other QB they select through the draft.

[fluffy201]

Is Rick Wagner even playing well?

[eze17]

  40 minutes ago, whobilly said:

B Williams the ONLY IMPACT player on the Unrestricted FA list that we need to keep.

He is about the only one we don't "have to" keep - at least not at all costs. With Jernigan and an ascending Pierce at helm Williams is expendable if he gets too expensive on the market - and he is just about guaranteed to be.

The Ravens have never gone into bidding wars - even for player in positions where had no real depth. We now have at NT. Sad, but Brandon will in all likelihood, be the next star leaving us via free agency. Grubbs, Ellerbe, McPhee, Torrey Smith, KO - now him. He's gonna be way too expensive.

I think we should make retaining Wagner the top priority. That's much more realistic.

True. We have thrown the franchise tag on a few big name defensive players in the past ( Mcallister, Haloti and Suggs) to keep them around until we could sign them long term, but I agree that Williams is probably playing somewhere else next year. Jernnigan and Pierce have shown they can step into his spot if needed.

[rmcjacket23]

Is Rick Wagner even playing well?

Yes

[rmcjacket23]

  56 minutes ago, bioLarzen said:

  1 hour ago, whobilly said:

B Williams the ONLY IMPACT player on the Unrestricted FA list that we need to keep.

He is about the only one we don't "have to" keep - at least not at all costs. With Jernigan and an ascending Pierce at helm Williams is expendable if he gets too expensive on the market - and he is just about guaranteed to be.

The Ravens have never gone into bidding wars - even for player in positions where had no real depth. We now have at NT. Sad, but Brandon will in all likelihood, be the next star leaving us via free agency. Grubbs, Ellerbe, McPhee, Torrey Smith, KO - now him. He's gonna be way too expensive.

I think we should make retaining Wagner the top priority. That's much more realistic.

True. We have thrown the franchise tag on a few big name defensive players in the past ( Mcallister, Haloti and Suggs) to keep them around until we could sign them long term, but I agree that Williams is probably playing somewhere else next year. Jernnigan and Pierce have shown they can step into his spot if needed.

Neither Wagner or Williams is a franchise tag candidate. Tag for DT's and for OLineman will probably be around $14M for 2017. Neither one of those guys is worth anywhere close to that.

[fluffy201]

Yep, Wagner is actually having a crap year, don't know why he would expect a 32 million dollar contract. And the Ravens should have enough cap room to sign Williams, only if it doesn't consist into a bidding war, in that case who cares. The Ravens have been the best at drafting tackles. Corners, and wide receivers...........no

[fluffy201]

we are never going to have a great offensive line if we keep letting them walk. We do need a new center but we need to retain Stanley, Lewis, Yanda and Wagner.

Wagner is ranked 50 best out of 60 tackles. He is having a horrible year. Let him walk.

[jravens1313]

Flacco's cap hit SMH... And we did abandon the run. Being down two scores in the 3rd quarter is no excuse. Keep our defense off the field so they can regroup. Dixon NEEDS MORE CARRIES! West is a 1 cut back with mediocre vision. Dixon give our offense life, both as a runner and receiver with Flacco's check downs.

[eze17]

Yep, Wagner is actually having a crap year, don't know why he would expect a 32 million dollar contract. And the Ravens should have enough cap room to sign Williams, only if it doesn't consist into a bidding war, in that case who cares. The Ravens have been the best at drafting tackles. Corners, and wide receivers...........no

Spot on with WR, but we've drafted some good CB's over the years and some nice tackles including a hall of famer...

[RaRaRavens]

Every time I see Flacco's salary number I lol...and then I cry. The dude should be paid like a 5th round rookie the way he's been playing.

[Minionhunter]

Also I would like to see SSS stick around for another year because:
1) he has the gas in the tank (and a super-charger under the hood)
2) the ring feels like it is within reach, and I want to see him get one
3) one more good season and he could quite easily hit no.3 on the all time receiving yards list ... very achievable

I agree.