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kjbmore

Free Agency 2017 (Players from Other Teams We Should Consider)

2,450 posts in this topic

Big picture factor

Like it or not, the Road to Superbowl goes through New England,  

So there is a strong possibility Flacco and our WR's  will be going against Gilmore & Butler.

Brady's bunch against Ravens Jimmy Smith(if healthy) and maybe? Claiborne? (if healthy).

I don't like our odds, 

Imagine this scenario.

Somehow Ravens pry Butler away from NE and we could have

Flacco & Co. going against Gilmore & whoever/rookie?

Brady & Co. going against

Smith & Butler.

Much better odds, like it a lot.

That is the point I'm trying to get a cross. Not only Butler is better than Claiborne, but we also weaken our rival by this move.

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5 minutes ago, Adreme said:

Not having a single RT on the roster is sort of a big deal since as the Ravens have said numerous times they do not view Alex Lewis as a T they view him as a guard.

As a NFL team, you say one thing and sometimes go another route. The Ravens want 53 of the best players possible on their team. If that requires shifting Alex Lewis to RT I don't think that is an issue. Everybody wants continuity and for everyone to play the same position. But sometimes that is not in the cards.

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2 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

As a NFL team, you say one thing and sometimes go another route. The Ravens want 53 of the best players possible on their team. If that requires shifting Alex Lewis to RT I don't think that is an issue. Everybody wants continuity and for everyone to play the same position. But sometimes that is not in the cards.

They say he ISNT a good RT though and that he has the potential to be an elite guard.  Both there words and actions showed this last season and it doesnt seem like much would change between now and the next season so if you believe everything that has not only been said but done then they have no real RT on the roster.

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30 minutes ago, Martin Maryland said:

We have 2 starting corners, really? Smith and who, Young? Don't get me wrong, I like Young, but I like him much better as Nickelback covering slot receiver, than being on outside trying to cover OBJ or some 6'5 WR in the red zone. Sorry, but we dont't have solid CB2 on the roster,  f Smith gets hurt, then we have Arrington & Canady.

Folks, this season we play games against Packers, Lions, their QB's  would pick us apart without strong cornerbacks. 

You're delusional if you don't think Tavon was starter quality this past year. Everyone likes him better inside - which in today's NFL is a starting position regardless - but be real dude, if Tavon starts on the outside then we'd have an above average #2 CB.

But keep pushing Butler, you're welcome to not except that he's not even being considered but you're only setting yourself up for disappointment. Luckily the sub won't be around long enough for you to complain endlessly about it.

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22 minutes ago, RobertLRenfroJR@Gmail.com said:

Besides Boldin there's another big physical WR Vincent Jackson who played in San Diego before Tampa.   The FA Tenders are wasted on average players.  Pull them all get a Morris Cliaborne to pair with Jimmy Smith,   Brandon Carr, Brandon Flowers, all kinds of bridge corners are available.  Morris isn't a bridge.   He is a ling term solution.  Want another safety I would love to have Webb back because of his cover skills.   But a nice bridge option is Jairus Byrd.   Talk to Flacco about redoing his deal for salary cap relief this year.  I'm  sure he would if it meant bringing in these guys and maybe a Revis and a Victor Cruz,possibly an AP?   To win this year?    You can get a Boykin cheap as a slot or chase corner.    But with Morris and one more the team would be set.   Boldin and/ or Vincent Jackson as a big target.   Put the word out people.

Morris Claiborne

Vincent Jackson

Ryan Clady

Anquan Boldin

Revis, Carr, Flowers etc.

Jairus Byrd and or Webb

Victor Cruz

Cut loose all the tenders.  Aiken etc will never be better than average, cut them, loose.  Use the money on quality youth and bridge players like above.  please repeat them by name.

No way AP touches our rosters with his past. Keep in mind our salary cap too, we can't afford to take just anyone and everyone in FA that could fill a hole. Ozzie himself said our main method of filling holes this year will be through the draft, I strongly doubt we take a CB besides Morris in FA (even if we don't grab him, we could afford to only take from the draft) unless there's a good deal on a player. Some of the guys mentioned (specifically Revis) probably won't live up to their past ability, and we could use younger guys.

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17 minutes ago, Martin Maryland said:

Big picture factor

Like it or not, the Road to Superbowl goes through New England,  

So there is a strong possibility Flacco and our WR's  will be going against Gilmore & Butler.

Brady's bunch against Ravens Jimmy Smith(if healthy) and maybe? Claiborne? (if healthy).

I don't like our odds, 

Imagine this scenario.

Somehow Ravens pry Butler away from NE and we could have

Flacco & Co. going against Gilmore & whoever/rookie?

Brady & Co. going against

Smith & Butler.

Much better odds, like it a lot.

That is the point I'm trying to get a cross. Not only Butler is better than Claiborne, but we also weaken our rival by this move.

"Weaken our rival" in what way? By sending them a 16th overall pick that we could put to better use than taking Butler anyway? The Pats could take BPA in the first and become EVEN BETTER if they strike gold (less likely to happen with the 32nd pick in the second), while replacing Butler with the depth at CB in this draft being so rich. I'm still not sure that Butler's play isn't just because of the talent he's surrounded by.

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15 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

You're delusional if you don't think Tavon was starter quality this past year. Everyone likes him better inside - which in today's NFL is a starting position regardless - but be real dude, if Tavon starts on the outside then we'd have an above average #2 CB.

But keep pushing Butler, you're welcome to not except that he's not even being considered but you're only setting yourself up for disappointment. Luckily the sub won't be around long enough for you to complain endlessly about it.

After I've seen what Eli did when Tavon was covering Beckham Jr, Yes I push 4 Butler.

After I've seen what Aaron Rodgers did to Cowboys secondary, Yes I push Butler over Claiborne.

-3

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17 minutes ago, Martin Maryland said:

After I've seen what Eli did when Tavon was covering Beckham Jr, Yes I push 4 Butler.

After I've seen what Aaron Rodgers did to Cowboys secondary, Yes I push Butler over Claiborne.

Not for that price I don't. We need that first rounder.

 

Also

context: that was tavon's first time on the outside at the pro level. Later went on to hold his own vs Antonio Brown.

 

and I'm pretty sure Claiborne was injured during that game tbh.

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44 minutes ago, Martin Maryland said:

After I've seen what Eli did when Tavon was covering Beckham Jr, Yes I push 4 Butler.

After I've seen what Aaron Rodgers did to Cowboys secondary, Yes I push Butler over Claiborne.

Well, Claiborne didn't play that game...

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11 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Well, Claiborne didn't play that game...

Psh... sounds like he could have played better to me. I bet Ozzie's striking a deal with the Pats right now and shipping off everything we got for the GOAT Butler.

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Was Malcolm butler the corner that had ankle removal surgery performed on him late in the super bowl? I think it was him...

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6 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Homeboy wants to hop on claibornes case about a big game that he didn't even play in, but forgets about ...

https://youtu.be/vAUp086rf8U

I don't think one bad play is a good indicator of a player at all, but I still don't see Butler being as good as Claiborne. I think we could get more out of Humphrey.

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4 hours ago, The Mom Gene said:

I think we're discounting Tavon Young way too fast.  That guy played pretty damned well for a rookie this year.  Come on, give the kid a break.  And moving Webby to Safety was the right move.  Gave us two very talented guys in the "outfield".

 

Young seems good but his natural spot is nickel and he would be able to cover the sideline in a pinch but we really need to get a long, fast guy opposite Jimmy.

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12 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Young seems good but his natural spot is nickel and he would be able to cover the sideline in a pinch but we really need to get a long, fast guy opposite Jimmy.

I think we easily find that in Claiborne or in the draft. Sure Claiborne's re-injury chance is a threat but that's where the draft comes in.

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Since Jason La Canfora is the one stating Morris Claiborne is expecting to sign with the Ravens... I am 95% sure that Morris Claiborne will not sign with the Ravens. 

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2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Homeboy wants to hop on claibornes case about a big game that he didn't even play in, but forgets about ...

https://youtu.be/vAUp086rf8U

OK.  if you read my statement, I said what Aaron Rodgers did to Cowboys secondary. Claiborne wasn't there, because he was hurt. I was referring to Rodgers who we will be playing against this season. 

Facts

Butler, 27, played all 16 games plus playoffs in last 3 seasons.

2 Superbowl rings, Suoerbowl game wiining play against Seahawks, but twisted his ankle on one play against Atlanta, BTW, shut them down rest of the game, and won, again.

Claiborne, 27, never played full 16 games in 5 seasons. No playoff experience.

So, in this scenario, Ravens in a tight playoff game up by a point, in the 4 the quarter, with 2 min on the clock and opposing team NE has the ball, who do I want? I want Jimmy Smith as my CB1,, Tavon Young inside covering  Edelnan slot and on the other side CB2 Malcolm Butler, playmaker, covering lacrosse player name Hogan to prevent him from scoring TD on us. 

Call me what you want, but I'm old school, and I use 2000 Ravens Superbowl Greatest Defense of NFL as measuring stick.

So, with that mindset, Yes, I might be considered too critical. I also understand the price of Butler versus Claiborne, but I also understand what it takes to build Championship Caliber defense.

 

 

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Ya man everyone wants a great defense here but there is a smart way if going about it. I personally would prioritize secondary in the draft if Barnett is not there in the first. 

In regards to Butler. NE has a tender on him and it is not worth giving up the 16th pick to get a CB that NE wasn't willing to give CB1 money to. NE didn't give Gilmore $65 million because they think Butler is a premier corner. If that was the case they would have gotten him a new deal and that would have been that.

We are in a prime spot to land a young, talented, cheap corner. Humphrey, Conley, Wilson, and White would all be super physical corners that we want. Their rookie deals will keep us in a good cap situation where Butler even if we did fork up the first to acquire him will want CB1 money. Easily a +$50 million deal. It is extremely hard to have multiple corners getting paid that kind of coin. 

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Are there people that actually think we'd trade a 1st rounder for Butler? And that it's a good idea???

Now I understand why there's a segment of fans who think Ozzies a terrible GM. 

Its not just a 1st rounder you're giving up either bc he wants to get PAID. He's unhappy bc they ONLY offered him $9m/yr. A 1st round pick is supposed to give you a top talent for 4-5 years on a cheap deal. It's dumb to spend it on an above average talent and a massive contract. 

 

Claiborne for less than half the price probably is a much better idea. And if not... being patient and keeping our draft picks is also a much better idea. 

Claiborne or draft. Mangold and Barwin if possible. Maybe Dunlap/Clady if incredibly cheap. 

Thats it. 

 

AP? Cruz?? No thanks. 

 

And we do have RT's on the roster. Plenty of options depending on how the puzzle fits together. Wesley they like a lot. Nembot is a developmental prospect. Hurst is still here though hopefully not the answer. Yanda can be a pro bowl level RT if a better option at guard presents itself. And while they like Lewis better at guard, he held his own at LT and in a pinch or to suit a best starting 5 combo could prob slide out to tackle. 

No need to reach or overpay for underwhelming options. We can already trot out underwhelming options without throwing more money at the problem. 

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2 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Are there people that actually think we'd trade a 1st rounder for Butler? And that it's a good idea???

Now I understand why there's a segment of fans who think Ozzies a terrible GM. 

Its not just a 1st rounder you're giving up either bc he wants to get PAID. He's unhappy bc they ONLY offered him $9m/yr. A 1st round pick is supposed to give you a top talent for 4-5 years on a cheap deal. It's dumb to spend it on an above average talent and a massive contract. 

 

Claiborne for less than half the price probably is a much better idea. And if not... being patient and keeping our draft picks is also a much better idea. 

Claiborne or draft. Mangold and Barwin if possible. Maybe Dunlap/Clady if incredibly cheap. 

Thats it. 

 

AP? Cruz?? No thanks. 

 

And we do have RT's on the roster. Plenty of options depending on how the puzzle fits together. Wesley they like a lot. Nembot is a developmental prospect. Hurst is still here though hopefully not the answer. Yanda can be a pro bowl level RT if a better option at guard presents itself. And while they like Lewis better at guard, he held his own at LT and in a pinch or to suit a best starting 5 combo could prob slide out to tackle. 

No need to reach or overpay for underwhelming options. We can already trot out underwhelming options without throwing more money at the problem. 

And if we get Claiborne for cheap, we can still target a top corner in the draft. Then we could potentially have a really good secondary without having to overpay.  

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50 minutes ago, Martin Maryland said:

OK.  if you read my statement, I said what Aaron Rodgers did to Cowboys secondary. Claiborne wasn't there, because he was hurt. I was referring to Rodgers who we will be playing against this season. 

Facts

Butler, 27, played all 16 games plus playoffs in last 3 seasons.

2 Superbowl rings, Suoerbowl game wiining play against Seahawks, but twisted his ankle on one play against Atlanta, BTW, shut them down rest of the game, and won, again.

Claiborne, 27, never played full 16 games in 5 seasons. No playoff experience.

So, in this scenario, Ravens in a tight playoff game up by a point, in the 4 the quarter, with 2 min on the clock and opposing team NE has the ball, who do I want? I want Jimmy Smith as my CB1,, Tavon Young inside covering  Edelnan slot and on the other side CB2 Malcolm Butler, playmaker, covering lacrosse player name Hogan to prevent him from scoring TD on us. 

Call me what you want, but I'm old school, and I use 2000 Ravens Superbowl Greatest Defense of NFL as measuring stick.

So, with that mindset, Yes, I might be considered too critical. I also understand the price of Butler versus Claiborne, but I also understand what it takes to build Championship Caliber defense.

 

 

So then what does Claiborne have to do with Rodgers at all?

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1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

So then what does Claiborne have to do with Rodgers at all?

We might find out in 7 months

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Just now, allblackraven said:

We might find out in 7 months

He said "After seeing what Rodgers did to he cowboys secondary I put butler over Claiborne" 

he heavily implied that Claiborne was the reason for Rodgers torching them.

but he never torched Claiborne, and then tried to act like he never implied that he did... 

idk if you followed that but I'm very confused as to what he's thinking

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3 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He said "After seeing what Rodgers did to he cowboys secondary I put butler over Claiborne" 

he heavily implied that Claiborne was the reason for Rodgers torching them.

but he never torched Claiborne, and then tried to act like he never implied that he did... 

idk if you followed that but I'm very confused as to what he's thinking

Yep, I did follow and I still don't understand his argument(s)

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1 hour ago, jboy19 said:

Since Jason La Canfora is the one stating Morris Claiborne is expecting to sign with the Ravens... I am 95% sure that Morris Claiborne will not sign with the Ravens. 

JLC is the biggest fraud.  I could swear he creates his own sources and over 50% of the time he's wrong.

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54 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Are there people that actually think we'd trade a 1st rounder for Butler? And that it's a good idea???

Now I understand why there's a segment of fans who think Ozzies a terrible GM. 

Its not just a 1st rounder you're giving up either bc he wants to get PAID. He's unhappy bc they ONLY offered him $9m/yr. A 1st round pick is supposed to give you a top talent for 4-5 years on a cheap deal. It's dumb to spend it on an above average talent and a massive contract. 

 

Claiborne for less than half the price probably is a much better idea. And if not... being patient and keeping our draft picks is also a much better idea. 

 

 

That's the whole point, we would have to give up 3 players potentially for the price of 1. That is going backwards as a franchise when we're trying to get as many pro bowlers at each position as possible. Ridiculous, if we made that trade of a 1st for Butler than I would ask for Ozzie's resignation. 

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3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

So then what does Claiborne have to do with Rodgers at all?

I guess he saying while Claiborne always getting injured all the time, he can't even be able help the Cowboys secondary against the Packers or any other team so Aaron Rodgers torn the Cowboys secondary apart. So l believe he saying that Claiborne doesn't have playoff experience while Butler has playoff experience and 2 Super Bowls. I don't agree with him trading for Butler but l believe what he trying to point out maybe. 

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4 hours ago, Martin Maryland said:

OK.  if you read my statement, I said what Aaron Rodgers did to Cowboys secondary. Claiborne wasn't there, because he was hurt. I was referring to Rodgers who we will be playing against this season. 

Facts

Butler, 27, played all 16 games plus playoffs in last 3 seasons.

2 Superbowl rings, Suoerbowl game wiining play against Seahawks, but twisted his ankle on one play against Atlanta, BTW, shut them down rest of the game, and won, again.

Claiborne, 27, never played full 16 games in 5 seasons. No playoff experience.

So, in this scenario, Ravens in a tight playoff game up by a point, in the 4 the quarter, with 2 min on the clock and opposing team NE has the ball, who do I want? I want Jimmy Smith as my CB1,, Tavon Young inside covering  Edelnan slot and on the other side CB2 Malcolm Butler, playmaker, covering lacrosse player name Hogan to prevent him from scoring TD on us. 

Call me what you want, but I'm old school, and I use 2000 Ravens Superbowl Greatest Defense of NFL as measuring stick.

So, with that mindset, Yes, I might be considered too critical. I also understand the price of Butler versus Claiborne, but I also understand what it takes to build Championship Caliber defense.

 

 

Sorry bro, it just not a good idea. If it's a second round pick maybe but we also have to give him a big contract as well and we don't have much space for that. This will probably get Ozzie fired if he does this. If the Patriots gonna to release him, then it's possible then but he might have to accept less to come here. 

Edited by hen826957
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As far as Claiborne is concerned, a few sources reported the initial interest and JLC basically confirmed it and reported other teams expect Claiborne to be a Raven.

He is NOT the only source on this.

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3 hours ago, hen826957 said:

I guess he saying while Claiborne always getting injured all the time, he can't even be able help the Cowboys secondary against the Packers or any other team so Aaron Rodgers torn the Cowboys secondary apart. So l believe he saying that Claiborne doesn't have playoff experience while Butler has playoff experience and 2 Super Bowls. I don't agree with him trading for Butler but l believe what he trying to point out maybe. 

Nah, it's obvious to me that he tried to make Claiborne the scapegoat because Claiborne isn't his personal preference, and tried to backtrack when he found out that Claiborne wasn't responsible for the one example he used lol

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