Free Agency 2017 (Players from Other Teams We Should Consider)

[sibelius]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Some of these yes, some of them no.

The draft picks for the most part you are correct... we've whiffed more times than we should have or are used to. 

But guys like Monroe or Rice I had no issue with. There were essentially no red flags for Monroe when we gave him the extension he got (which was affordable compared to the market). And with Rice, nobody can know he's a domestic abuser. Those are two examples of "hindsight" knocks that fans complain about.

Draft picks there are valid complaints in real time, along with some other situations. Signing Pitta to that deal even after he dislocates his hip... a questionable decision at the time and even more so now. Decisions like that warrant second guessing from the fans.

When fans wait until years after a contract is handed out and then complain about it and say "it was a bad decision" based on information they don't get until after the contract is signed, it makes fans look unintelligent quite frankly. Implies that there's some sort of crystal ball somewhere where FO's should be able to predict things like injuries, domestic abuse, lack of desire to play, etc.

 

Agree. Some of the names are debatable but overall this is clearly an front office with a winning method. We just need to sit back and enjoy the blessing.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, sibelius said:

Agree. Some of the names are debatable but overall this is clearly an front office with a winning method. We just need to sit back and enjoy the blessing.

All circles back to the draft. It always does. If you draft well, you'll be a good team. If you don't, you won't. 

 

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, trevorsteadman said:

You can stay in Washington and say Garcon... Garcon would be a good fit here.

Yea i was predicting that garden was going to get cut and wanted us to get him earlier this year.  I would still welcome him here.  I think he would be an awesome compliment to BP and Wallace.  

[PurpleCity5]

22 hours ago, kjbmore said:

If we paid KO, I don't think we need to worry about Watson & Wallace. I think we could look like Dsllas just playing a power run game behind our monster Oline, controlling clock - we play Perriman & Moore on the outside and Smith, Aiken in the slot.

Run the ball down your throat all game long, put men in the box - start taking deep shots. 

Still grab Weddle.

 

 

Sorry but I don't think I will take K.O on that deal. K.O over Wallace, maybe Weddle. I don't know how the cap will effect everything but signing Weddle would be tougher if we kept K.O. Not to mention we went ahead and got Alex Lewis who has done well filling in at LG along. I like the choice of moving on from K.O honestly. 

[kjbmore]

9 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Too easy to do in hindsight.

But, no way to plan your offseason around a 4th round rookie CB taking starter snaps on the outside. Guys like Wright and Powers seemed like musts. And Powers is performing a key role for us now. Our pass D is no where near as good as it is right now if say Wright or Canady is having to play significant snaps.

Plus not making certain FA additions probably changes what  we do in the draft to a degree, and maybe we dont come out with Dixon, Tavon (we take a CB higher bc its a need, and wind up with a lesser talent using a higher pick), Judon, Lewis, etc... No way to say that if we dont make the same FA moves, that we definitely make the same draft picks. So, the assumptions made are flawed.

You're also undervaluing the role that Kubiak played in the run games success in 2014. Largely the same line early in 2015 wasnt doing so hot. We had the line you're talking about in 2015 and the offense wasnt ok with just the weapons you're suggesting we role with in 2016.

Wallace is KEY. Perriman wasnt ready to start the season, and i dont htink theres any way we get off to the 3-0 start if we're counting on Perriman, Moore and Aiken to play huge roles. Wallace carried our passing game through that stretch.

 

I just dont get how the same line from 2015 is magically in 2016 going to make an offensive juggernaut out of less experienced playmakers.

Hahaha it's all assumptions - so my assumptions are flawed but yours are airtight.

Love how everybody is so quick to say you're wrong, what are you thinking and then give a million reasons why said person is wrong.

Million ways to skin a cat, things can always play out differently - simply giving some scenarios in which we kept KO and how we could make it work and what we might look like.

Pretty sure Monroe barely played in 2015, plus Smith went down early, so there's that

yes Kubs is responsible for a lot, maybe we get rid of trestman in the offseason, maybe it plays out similar

maybe we trade up and get Ramsey and play him opposite jimmy, grab a receiver in the second, grab Lewis in the fourth, prob don't grab Moore, still get Dixon n young to play the slot

one thing is certain we needed Weddle, not arguing or saying we could have done that any differently

think we could have worked around not having Wallace. 

Anyway we got who we got and we let others walk and here we are 

[PurpleCity5]

5 hours ago, sibelius said:

Agree. Some of the names are debatable but overall this is clearly an front office with a winning method. We just need to sit back and enjoy the blessing.

One move that was seriously questionable on the part of the FO was letting go of Corey Graham. Guy played well ever since he was forced the step up and in a sport where CBs are in high demand and the idea that you could have had Graham at $4M a year was just a poor decision to make. It was a low risk-high reward type of situation. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

26 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Hahaha it's all assumptions - so my assumptions are flawed but yours are airtight.

Love how everybody is so quick to say you're wrong, what are you thinking and then give a million reasons why said person is wrong.

Million ways to skin a cat, things can always play out differently - simply giving some scenarios in which we kept KO and how we could make it work and what we might look like.

Pretty sure Monroe barely played in 2015, plus Smith went down early, so there's that

yes Kubs is responsible for a lot, maybe we get rid of trestman in the offseason, maybe it plays out similar

maybe we trade up and get Ramsey and play him opposite jimmy, grab a receiver in the second, grab Lewis in the fourth, prob don't grab Moore, still get Dixon n young to play the slot

one thing is certain we needed Weddle, not arguing or saying we could have done that any differently

think we could have worked around not having Wallace. 

Anyway we got who we got and we let others walk and here we are 

I wasn't making any assumptions really other than what seemed fairly obvious - we were planning to move KO to LT so therefore no Stanley in the first. 

With that goes the whole dominant OL idea, which I thought was the whole basis of your ideas. With the dominant OL there's less need for the weapons Wallace and Watson. 

But we would've rolled with a line very similar to the one we ended 2015 with. LG would've been the only question mark and possible difference. 

And with then the 1st rd pick changing, the whole draft strategy does as well... so we can't assume anything at that point in terms of who we come out with. 

 

My only point really was that retaining KO would've changed so much of our offseason plan that you can't use what actually ended up happening as the basis to just make minor changes on. 

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, kjbmore said:

Hahaha it's all assumptions - so my assumptions are flawed but yours are airtight.

Love how everybody is so quick to say you're wrong, what are you thinking and then give a million reasons why said person is wrong

To be clear,  I wasn't saying your wrong,  I was disagreeing.  You csnt be right or wrong in this scenario because we don't know how it turns out if we kept KO

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Sorry but I don't think I will take K.O on that deal. K.O over Wallace, maybe Weddle. I don't know how the cap will effect everything but signing Weddle would be tougher if we kept K.O. Not to mention we went ahead and got Alex Lewis who has done well filling in at LG along. I like the choice of moving on from K.O honestly. 

I agree. I'll take Wallace and Weddle over KO.

[RaineV1]

For this upcoming offseason, I hope the Ravens find a way to extend Wallace's contract.

[ravensnation5220]

Nick mangold?

[kjbmore]

8 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

To be clear,  I wasn't saying your wrong,  I was disagreeing.  You csnt be right or wrong in this scenario because we don't know how it turns out if we kept KO

Pretty much my point - people say you're wrong because you're making these assumptions, then use their assumptions to try to reinforce their point

Like only my assumptions can be right - your assumptions are wrong, so so wrong hahaha

anyhow - I still want a big target to stick with our burners

[usmccharles]

10 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Pretty much my point - people say you're wrong because you're making these assumptions, then use their assumptions to try to reinforce their point

Like only my assumptions can be right - your assumptions are wrong, so so wrong hahaha

anyhow - I still want a big target to stick with our burners

Well the probability of our team being the same is a lot less likely if we keep KO,  a lot. The chances that it works out the exact same are slim as hell.  But I get your point.  

I'm not as interested in big body guy as I am as a slot guy.   Hopefully we can develop one of Our 18 TEs into a beast.  I'm a huge fan of Gilmore,  but if he's not On the field,  he's not helping (see csmp) 

Edited December 9, 2016 by usmccharles

[kjbmore]

I just want Boldin 2.0

need Redzone targets, multiple

i want somebody we can just say yep at 5 or the 6 - u go out there on your own and we'll just throw u a jump ball and have that be successful 70% of the time

ie Bryant or Gronk

how many big catches did Boldin make on our Super Bowl run, big 3rd downs, TDs - need that guy

why I want Pryor, 6'4 plays big, quick

Edited December 9, 2016 by kjbmore

[usmccharles]

Just now, kjbmore said:

I just want Boldin 2.0

Yea,  but I don't see anyone who fits that bill.  I am a fan of bringing in Garcon.  I wanted Crabtree.  

[kjbmore]

14 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Yea,  but I don't see anyone who fits that bill.  I am a fan of bringing in Garcon.  I wanted Crabtree.  

Yeah Crabtree has performed well since going to the raiders - he had some questions when he went there - he does fit that mould.

Yeah nobody else's really fitting that mould - Jeffrey, not keen with age, cost

don't really follow college so not sure if there's anybody in that mould there

i don't really want to wait anymore time for people to develop either on the offensive side of the ball

read it here before but think garçon is to similar to what we already have

I'm very conscious of Flaccos window

with manning gone and Brady surely not far behind - the AFC is ripe for us to take over - Carr, Smith, Big Ben

we have the d 

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, kjbmore said:

Yeah Crabtree has performed well since going to the raiders - he had some questions when he went there - he does fit that mould.

Yeah nobody else's really fitting that mould - Jeffrey, not keen with age, cost

don't really follow college so not sure if there's anybody in that mould there

i don't really want to wait anymore time for people to develop either on the offensive side of the ball

read it here before but think garçon is to similar to what we already have

I'm very conscious of Flaccos window

with manning gone and Brady surely not far behind - the AFC is ripe for us to take over - Carr, Smith, Big Ben

we have the d 

With how hill has been laying for kc,  no way they can justify Maclins contract.  Could he be a cap casualty that Ozzie targets and what could he offer... Hmmm

[rossihunter2]

i dont really see many major names coming in as realistic options in free agency - maybe a cap casualty or two but i havent really thought about that yet this season given we are still in the midst of the playoff race

[kjbmore]

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

With how hill has been laying for kc,  no way they can justify Maclins contract.  Could he be a cap casualty that Ozzie targets and what could he offer... Hmmm

Maclin just more of the same.

We need to improve our Redzone efficiency (also 3rd down) we can get there just need to start getting 7 instead of settling for 3

Where Boldin was the man

[Prino61]

After watching last nights game we really need a player like Tyreek Hill 

[hereweare]

Last nights game reinforced the message that a QB is only as good as his Oline... Carr was very uncomfortable.. wasn't going through his progressions, wasn't stepping into throws, inaccurate, and wasn't even finishing his dropbacks before he was already throwing.

Makes you wonder if we could get by without signing a WR and try to pay Wagner at RT to solidify the line

 

[rmcjacket23]

12 hours ago, usmccharles said:

With how hill has been laying for kc,  no way they can justify Maclins contract.  Could he be a cap casualty that Ozzie targets and what could he offer... Hmmm

Maybe. He might be due for a paycut, but not sure they'd outright cut him. No way they'd head into the offseason with Hill as their #1 WR... he's not that kind of player.

Chiefs have a tight cap situation, but looking closer, its not as bad as some think. They can create over $20M in cap space by cutting Nick Foles, Jamaal Charles, Derrick Johnson (old LB coming off a rupture achilles... he probably retires anyway) and not much dead money to speak of.

Maclin would be a paycut candidate most likely.

[usmccharles]

18 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Maybe. He might be due for a paycut, but not sure they'd outright cut him. No way they'd head into the offseason with Hill as their #1 WR... he's not that kind of player.

Chiefs have a tight cap situation, but looking closer, its not as bad as some think. They can create over $20M in cap space by cutting Nick Foles, Jamaal Charles, Derrick Johnson (old LB coming off a rupture achilles... he probably retires anyway) and not much dead money to speak of.

Maclin would be a paycut candidate most likely.

Yea that's what I was thinking.  Charles is going to be interesting, I don't see how/why they would keep him, but I also don't know the benefits of cutting him. 

I cant really think of any other vets that fit our mold as cap casualties right now.  I don't know even know what kind of cap situation we will be in

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

Yea that's what I was thinking.  Charles is going to be interesting, I don't see how/why they would keep him, but I also don't know the benefits of cutting him. 

I cant really think of any other vets that fit our mold as cap casualties right now.  I don't know even know what kind of cap situation we will be in

We've got plenty of useless players that we can cut and create some flexibility. 

The key people to watch that don't fit in that mold are Dumervil (highly likely to be gone), Webb and Pitta. All three of their futures with this team are completely up in the air, and I wouldn't expect any of them to be back under their current cap figure/salary.

[Dubs]

55 minutes ago, hereweare said:

Last nights game reinforced the message that a QB is only as good as his Oline... Carr was very uncomfortable.. wasn't going through his progressions, wasn't stepping into throws, inaccurate, and wasn't even finishing his dropbacks before he was already throwing.

Makes you wonder if we could get by without signing a WR and try to pay Wagner at RT to solidify the line

 

I am much more in agreenace with this than trying to say a WR to something over $4M..I know people think Alex Lewis can take over for Wagner at RT but I think that is a pretty big risk. Outside of Yanda for the next four years we really don't have a lot of cap invested into our OL, if we sign Wagner to a 4 or 5 year deal by the time Ronnie Stanley is ready for his first big contract Wagners will be done/near done and we shift the focus to him. If both Lewis and Stanley end up performing there is no chance we sign both and we will likely be in a situation of what we have had in the past with Yanda and Grubbs, and then later on with Osemele--we will have to choose and obviously will choose Stanley. IMO no better time than our current situation to lock up Wagner for 4 or 5 years knowing that outside of Yanda we really have not invested much cap into our OL, and I don't want an OL consisting of almost all guys on rookie contracts...not a recipe for success imo

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, Dubs said:

I am much more in agreenace with this than trying to say a WR to something over $4M..I know people think Alex Lewis can take over for Wagner at RT but I think that is a pretty big risk. Outside of Yanda for the next four years we really don't have a lot of cap invested into our OL, if we sign Wagner to a 4 or 5 year deal by the time Ronnie Stanley is ready for his first big contract Wagners will be done/near done and we shift the focus to him. If both Lewis and Stanley end up performing there is no chance we sign both and we will likely be in a situation of what we have had in the past with Yanda and Grubbs, and then later on with Osemele--we will have to choose and obviously will choose Stanley. IMO no better time than our current situation to lock up Wagner for 4 or 5 years knowing that outside of Yanda we really have not invested much cap into our OL, and I don't want an OL consisting of almost all guys on rookie contracts...not a recipe for success imo

Not really true though.

By the time we would have to pay Stanley and Lewis, Yanda will have been retired and his contract will be gone. One of the main reasons why we don't sign guys like Grubbs or KO is because we already have a market-value contract to another Guard... Yanda. We're just not going to pay like $15M a year to two interior offensive lineman, especially when we have such a good track record of drafting and developing interior lineman.

I agree that saying Lewis will play RT is risky. Not saying it should guarantee that we retain Wagner, because we may decide to pay Williams instead and surely can't afford both.

There's also a third option... you let Wagner walk and you basically draft an offensive lineman, either a Guard or a Tackle. You could put a rookie at RT and leave Lewis at LG if you were so inclined. With OLineman, versatility is a big asset, and we don't necessarily draft players who are set at one position. KO was versatile, Yanda is versatile, and I think Lewis is as well.

[VermontRaven]

11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

With OLineman, versatility is a big asset, and we don't necessarily draft players who are set at one position. KO was versatile, Yanda is versatile, and I think Lewis is as well.

I agree with this.  This is another reason I think it would be really nice to be able to hold on to Wagner.  Then, Lewis could start at G, but could also be a quality backup option if either tackle went down...much easier to find a quality backup interior lineman (see Ducasse who was out of a job until we had injuries) than a quality backup tackle.

[hereweare]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Not really true though.

By the time we would have to pay Stanley and Lewis, Yanda will have been retired and his contract will be gone. One of the main reasons why we don't sign guys like Grubbs or KO is because we already have a market-value contract to another Guard... Yanda. We're just not going to pay like $15M a year to two interior offensive lineman, especially when we have such a good track record of drafting and developing interior lineman.

I agree that saying Lewis will play RT is risky. Not saying it should guarantee that we retain Wagner, because we may decide to pay Williams instead and surely can't afford both.

There's also a third option... you let Wagner walk and you basically draft an offensive lineman, either a Guard or a Tackle. You could put a rookie at RT and leave Lewis at LG if you were so inclined. With OLineman, versatility is a big asset, and we don't necessarily draft players who are set at one position. KO was versatile, Yanda is versatile, and I think Lewis is as well.

Agree with it all. I only see the FO paying two Olineman...an LT and then a player who is a top tier talent. KO was, but we already had Yanda. Since the LT is on rookie contract they could sign Wagner to 3 years and then after 2019 you'd have Stanley, Lewis and Wagner as UFA. If solidifying the Oline is top priority. Option 3 is a little scary for 2017 which is @Dubs point.

But then BWill comes into the picture.. Is he viewed as our next Ngata? If so, will they pay him like he is?

Personally, as much as I want to see BWill back and retain a #1 defense... Flacco is 31 getting paid 22-26mil a year against the cap. Solidify the Oline and lean on the offense. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by hereweare

[-Truth-]

21 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Yea i was predicting that garden was going to get cut and wanted us to get him earlier this year.  I would still welcome him here.  I think he would be an awesome compliment to BP and Wallace.  

Is this what you were looking for? Link

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, hereweare said:

 Agree with it all. While I like the idea of a stacked Oline I don't see the FO paying significant money for a RT. 
Option 3 is nerve wracking though. Which is @Dubs point. A solid Oline makes everyone on OFF better.

But is BWill our new Ngata and will he get paid like one...? 

Still don't know what Williams market will be. He's not the difference maker that Ngata was, nor are they really asked to do the same things. Ngata in his prime didn't play much NT, and was a far better player when he had a quality NT (Kelly Gregg) playing beside him. I thought he lost a lot of his freedom and effectiveness when he made the switch to NT from DT. 

I have no idea what will happen with the Oline to be honest. We pretty much know that 3 starters will be returning. Everybody assumes Zuttah will not be back, but the FA market for centers looks bare to me, and its just as big of a gamble to draft one there and start them right away.

If we whiff on signing Williams, I personally think its a tough pill to swallow to let both Williams and Wagner leave. They're the only two players out of the 2013 draft class that you give strong consideration to retaining long term (other than Juice, who will cost chump change). It would be pretty bad to have most of that draft class leave after their rookie deals for the second straight year (2012 draft class was similar). 2012 was the first draft since 05 (probably the worst draft in franchise history) I believe where we didn't sign at least one of our draft picks long term, and while we will probably retain Juice, 2013 would be back to back years where we failed to retain any of our draft picks basically.

Not good.