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Free Agency 2017 (Players from Other Teams We Should Consider)

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2 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Britts not good in the redzone. Hes big but doesnt play up to his size. Hes had a few seasons where he's caught a high % of 1st downs, but never had more than 50 because he's just not a volume catcher. THATS what we need imo. bc Wallace and Perriman arent guys that get separation every play. Garcon, Marshall both are better in the red zone, and on 3rd down.

If you want a go to guy in the Red Zone and on critical 3rd downs.... Britts not your guy.

And I wouldnt be surprised if Britt gets upwards of $10m. Guys like Tavon Austin and Jeremy Maclin did in recent years coming off similar seasons at a similar age.

I hate to seem like i'm picking but are you truly aware of what you're typing. None of it adds up. I'd rather you just say you don't like Britt period because the reasons you're giving not to like him over other guys just don't add up. 

Neither Boldin nor Sr has ever surpassed 50 1st downs for the Ravens. You'll find it hard to discover one person in the Ravens organization that don't want the type of production those guys gave on 3rd downs. Furthermore, you say he's not a high volume guy. Well how can you be a high volume guy if you're not even targeted more than 84 times a season? Garcon has only surpassed 50 1st downs twice in his career and 1 of those seasons he was targeted 181 times. Marshall has surpassed 50+ 1st down 7 times and in every season he was targeted at least 140 times. Volume comes with targets and Britt just doesn't get as many as those guys. Britt converts 70%+ of his catches into 1st downs. I wonder what head do with more targets. 

Secondly. You said Britt isn't as good in the redzone as Garcon or Marshall. Well lets look at the numbers.

Garcon 13 targets 5recs 1TD

Britt: 12 targets 6recs 4TDs

BMarsh: 22 targets 7recs 4TDs

Garcon comes up short here. Now onto the 3rd down claim you made. 

Based on the site i looked at Britt converted 17 3rd downs into 1st downs last year, Garcon nor Marshall made the list.On 3rd and 7 or greater, Britt converted 6, Marshall converted 5 and again Garcon didn't make the list.  http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=&type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=104

Not beating up on your opinion nor am i downing Marshall or Garcon cause i'd be happy with either, I just think you're sleeping on Britt unjustly. I agree with you on one thing tho. I could certainly see him getting close to 10Mil from someone and that'd probably push him out of the Ravens range, but the more I look into Britt the more I feel he's worth it and if Wallace is cut at his expense I wouldn't be upset. 

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Final point on it -- I get the WR isnt great. But that doesnt mean you bow to the market and start paying premium prices for mediocre players. Thats how you kill a franchise.

Instead you find what the market does have value in, and add it to your team while the prices are good. Draft the rest.

Every team has holes.... and WR is one for us. But im not going to pay cement prices for dried mud to plug it. 

 

So grab an aging player that you think you can get another year or 2 out of it... and keep doing what weve been doing until we can find a long term answer. Garcon, Marshall, some cut WR or draft for me. No theres no in between... unless they really think Jeffery or Pryor are what this team needs and are willing to spend the money. Otherwise pass and move on.

Roll with what you got and improve your passing game by spending your resources to improve the OL and run game where theres actual value... or your D so you dont have to rely on the passing game as much, etc...

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@BOLDnPurPnBlacK you make some very good points comparing Aiken to Britt.  However,  iI viewview brBritt as a way more gifted athlete than Aiken.   That being said,  you make a great point that Aiken would be cheaper.   I,  and obviously @Ravensfan23 think that Britt has moremore potential to be a game changer than Aiken. 

Inever had never had an issue bringing in aging vets that no one else really wanted.  Mason, Boldin,  SSr... Worked out great

Edited by usmccharles
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2 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

If those guys are getting in the upper teens in terms of average annual salary that only drives Britt's price up making it even worse in my opinion.

And aside from last year we're talking about a guy who's career highlights were a couple 700 yd seasons with some injury riddled stinkers in between. He's never really been a major red zone threat. And with his size he should be. He plays much smaller than he is.

I mean honestly -- I just look at him like i look at Kamar Aiken. On a bad offense surrounded with no talent both can put up a #1 WR like season. 1,000 yds, 5 TDs. But, put them in an offense with actual NFL caliber talent and they quickly fall down the pecking order.

So, why the love for Britt but no one pulling to resign Aiken at half the cost? Aiken has at least been durable....

 

The whole poor offense, no QB argument in favor of Britt kind of falls flat for me, because we saw Aiken with a bunch of nobodies and Ryan Mallet throwing him the ball put up similar numbers. And I guarantee no one would be happy if we paid him $7m/yr and considered cutting Wallace to do so.

And, btw, just bc the Rams paid Tavon $10m/yr doesnt make signing equally ok players to similar contracts a good idea. The Rams way of doing business isnt exactly working, so citing their contract offers as examples isnt a ringing endorsement.

 

And this whole "fit" thing... dont really get it either. Wallace doesnt fit, but Britt somehow does even though we havent seen him in the Ravens offense. We've seen Wallace and the results were pretty good.

And for as much as I hear 'but Wallace got most of his production early in the season." So did Britt. It happens. Defenses adjust and try to take away what youre doing well. Someone else has to step up, hence the need for a "complimentary" receiver, not all new receivers.

So, if we're talking about Marshall, Garcon, and Britt all likely being in a similar price range - i just dont get the desire for Britt over either the others. Both have been more consistent, more productive, and imo are better fits for what we do. 

If we're seriously gonna consider Britt, I'd rather just bring Aiken back at half the cost and give him more targets. maybe not quite the upside... but less volatile.

Red-zone scoring is about team execution and creativity, that Rams and Jeff Fischer do not come to mind when I think of that. I can't put that all on Britt. 

Also, he's not physical as his size indicates? I disagree look at the 0:26 mark, Darius Slay did as much as he could to execute the tackle, he got low, wrapped up and tried to force the receiver to the ground, unfortunately with the end-zone in front of him, Britt used his strength and dragged him to the end-zone. Any other receiver who doesn't poccess the size or physicality there would have been brought down. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k1F1JF7o_M

Look at his 2nd TD vs Detroit on the 2:37 mark, the guy took a CB, Linebacker and a dragged Kerry Hyder(DT) to the end-zone and completely bullied his way there.  On the slant pattern, Britt already got the first down, if he was finesse like other receivers he would've went straight to the ground as soon as he made the catch, he didn't and broke those tackles thinking touchdown. 

In Aiken's case, he got a stupid amount of targets when Steve Smith went down and while he preformed well, he did play with Joe for 10 games, who we know is far better than any Rams QB. Aiken later on played with not the best of guys behind center, but he didn't have much competition to take targets away from and once Steve Smith, Breshad Perriman and Mike Wallace arrived, he was back to the #4 role. 

Also, it's not just the Rams way of doing things, the Falcons who nearly won the SB gave Mohammad Sanu a $7M per year deal coming off a 394 Yard and 0 TD season and can anyone in their right mind justify that? 

In Pierre Garcon's case, he's not coming from a worse situation, I would legit say he's coming to a worse situation offensively speaking here considering that I'll have to admit that the Redskins offense is a good amount better than the Ravens. He's coming from a passing attack that ranked 2nd in the league and a QB who last year ranked among the top 5 and this year among the top 10. I don't know if you're getting a better Pierre Garcon here than in Washington. Kenny Britt is a different story and I'm certain you're getting someone who can play better than the 1,000 yards he put up in that horrendous offense. 

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3 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I hate to seem like i'm picking but are you truly aware of what you're typing. None of it adds up. I'd rather you just say you don't like Britt period because the reasons you're giving not to like him over other guys just don't add up. 

Neither Boldin nor Sr has ever surpassed 50 1st downs for the Ravens. You'll find it hard to discover one person in the Ravens organization that don't want the type of production those guys gave on 3rd downs. Furthermore, you say he's not a high volume guy. Well how can you be a high volume guy if you're not even targeted more than 84 times a season? Garcon has only surpassed 50 1st downs twice in his career and 1 of those seasons he was targeted 181 times. Marshall has surpassed 50+ 1st down 7 times and in every season he was targeted at least 140 times. Volume comes with targets and Britt just doesn't get as many as those guys. Britt converts 70%+ of his catches into 1st downs. I wonder what head do with more targets. 

Secondly. You said Britt isn't as good in the redzone as Garcon or Marshall. Well lets look at the numbers.

Garcon 13 targets 5recs 1TD

Britt: 12 targets 6recs 4TDs

BMarsh: 22 targets 7recs 4TDs

Garcon comes up short here. Now onto the 3rd down claim you made. 

Based on the site i looked at Britt converted 17 3rd downs into 1st downs last year, Garcon nor Marshall made the list.On 3rd and 7 or greater, Britt converted 6, Marshall converted 5 and again Garcon didn't make the list.  http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=&type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=104

Not beating up on your opinion nor am i downing Marshall or Garcon cause i'd be happy with either, I just think you're sleeping on Britt unjustly. I agree with you on one thing tho. I could certainly see him getting close to 10Mil from someone and that'd probably push him out of the Ravens range, but the more I look into Britt the more I feel he's worth it and if Wallace is cut at his expense I wouldn't be upset. 

AND YOU GET TARGETS BY GETTING OPEN.

Its not like Garcon and Marshall are doing alongside Joe Guy. Theyre commanding serious targets alongside Djax, Crowder and Reed.... or Alshon, Bennett, Forte.... etc..

And I said Britt has had some seasons of high % of 3rd down conversions, but hes not prolific. And you cherry picked the one year he was. Ok. cool.

Your red zone numbers, are what, just last year again? Ok. If you want to pay a guy based on one year have at it. But thats how stupid GMs get duped in signing bad players to big, long term deals.

 

Besides... Im not even the one who said "we need a serious red zone threat." I just said Britt isnt that. He doesnt catch many TDs. Period. He doesnt score. Never has. So saying we need Britt bc of how great he is in the red zone is ridiculous.

I never said Garcon was great in the Red zone especially. Thats not what I want him for. I want him because he gives you 2nd and 2's or 3rd and 1's. He a sure handed guy that gets open on all downs.

We've got Perriman, 20 Tight Ends, Rbs and FB for the red zone. I need a guy that get freakin get open 1v1 every play.

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I like Garçon and Britt. Would like them in ravens offense. Marshall not so much. Will be 33 yrs old and a headache everywhere he went.   You make a good point of Garcon and Marshall's previous production. But that is only one slice of the pie. We should take in consideration their skill set, system, QB and age. Then project them into the ravens offense. We don't want to pay for previous production. We are only interested in the player we think he could be with us.

 

Finding free agents that we think can perform better with us than their previous team is how we find bargains. Brandon Lloyd is a classic example of a player coming from seemingly nowhere to lead the NFL in yards. Many players that  burst into the spotlight on a new team site various explanations for their newfound success. All ranging from opportunity, coaching system, coaching, discipline,work ethic supporting cast and confidence. Joe Flacco is a superior QB to anything Britt has ever worked with. He is superior to Kirk Cousins so Garcon should see a spike in production to.

 

I like Garcon but I don't know the word on Washington bringing him back. Same for Kenny Britt. Marshall should be available. With his rep and age there may not be many teams interested. Then there is the  question  of Do the ravens want more WR's 30 and Older? Ravens could be interested in receivers that will play better in the next several years. As opposed to a temporary receiver

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On 2/17/2017 at 0:34 PM, usmccharles said:

@BOLDnPurPnBlacK you make some very good points comparing Aiken to Britt.  However,  iI viewview brBritt as a way more gifted athlete than Aiken.   That being said,  you make a great point that Aiken would be cheaper.   I,  and obviously @Ravensfan23 think that Britt has moremore potential to be a game changer than Aiken. 

Inever had never had an issue bringing in aging vets that no one else really wanted.  Mason, Boldin,  SSr... Worked out great

Yea i'd have no issue with re-signing Aiken and I've even said that Aiken made a believer out of me when the Ravens had to rely on him in 2015, I don't get the notion that a guys production should be minimized because he's he teams only option. That would make things tougher for him I'd think. True is, every offense force feeds their best players whomever that my be. I just get the feeling the Ravens are more than willing to allow Aiken to walk if he can get a nice deal somewhere. 

I certainly agree that Britt is more talented and has more potential than Aiken, but that should be expected of a former 1st round pick. I just see Aiken as a nice possession WR and that'd be great if the Ravens already had an established play maker on the roster. But they don't yet and they need whomever they bring in to be both a chain mover and play maker. 

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6 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

AND YOU GET TARGETS BY GETTING OPEN.

Its not like Garcon and Marshall are doing alongside Joe Guy. Theyre commanding serious targets alongside Djax, Crowder and Reed.... or Alshon, Bennett, Forte.... etc..

And I said Britt has had some seasons of high % of 3rd down conversions, but hes not prolific. And you cherry picked the one year he was. Ok. cool.

Your red zone numbers, are what, just last year again? Ok. If you want to pay a guy based on one year have at it. But thats how stupid GMs get duped in signing bad players to big, long term deals.

 

Besides... Im not even the one who said "we need a serious red zone threat." I just said Britt isnt that. He doesnt catch many TDs. Period. He doesnt score. Never has. So saying we need Britt bc of how great he is in the red zone is ridiculous.

I never said Garcon was great in the Red zone especially. Thats not what I want him for. I want him because he gives you 2nd and 2's or 3rd and 1's. He a sure handed guy that gets open on all downs.

We've got Perriman, 20 Tight Ends, Rbs and FB for the red zone. I need a guy that get freakin get open 1v1 every play.

So i cherry picked. Ok

Rams offense 14'-16': 1,524 pass attempts. Britt targeted 267 times which is 17% of his team's volume or ever 5.7 pass attempts went his way.

 Skins offense 14'-16': 1,709 pass attempts. Garcon targeted 330 times which is 19% of his team's volume or every 5.1 pass attempts went his way.

The Skins threw the ball 185 more times over that 3 year period, which is 61.6 more times per year. Britt's low volume has very little to do with his inability to get open any more than Garcon's. A WR can't force his team to pass more. 

Now let's move to the 1st down comparison over 3 years.

Garcon: 330 targets 127 1st downs. That's 38% or every 2,5 of Garcon's targets going for 1st downs.

      Britt: 267 targets 109 1st downs. That's 40% or every 2.4 of Britt's targets going for 1st downs.

Where is Garcon more of a prolific 3rd down guy but Britt isn't? In fact those small percentage points in favor of Britt actually make a huge difference over the course of a season which you'll see later. In 63 more targets Garcon only has 18 more 1st downs in 3 years.  

The redzone argument, ok.  

Lastly you said you need a guy who can get open on all downs and I agree. So let's look at the numbers.

Garcon: 48gms 330 targets 219rec 66% 2570yds 11.7ypc 12Tds 30 20+yds  6 40+yds 57% 1st downs 2 drops 872YAC 12 big plays 2 100yds games

      Britt: 47gms 267 targets 152rec 56% 2431yds 15.9ypc 11Tds 39 20+yds 12 40+yds 71% 1st downs 8 drops 699YAC 29 big plays 5 100yds games

 Either guy would be a really good fit for the Ravens offense moving forward. If you want a Derrick Mason type possession guy, Garcon is probably you're man. But based off what the Ravens said they wanted, a physical possession type guy who can consistently keep the chain moving and make big plays down field when the team needs it, Britt appears to be the better fit and more likely to provide those big spark plays that Steve Smith gave us. I think based off perception many people will take the same stance as you and Garcon will be a hot commodity driving his price. Britt will be viewed as a 3rd tier FA WR  when it's all said and done imo.  

 Also just as a reference point here are Steve Smith Sr's numbers over the last 3 years. 

37 gms 308 targets 195 rec 63% 2268yds 11.6ypc 14Tds 40 20+yds 9 40+yds 57% 1st downs 14 drops 840YAC 21 big plays 7 100yds games for what it's worth. 

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NFL.com has a list of guys who might get cut and I think there are some interesting names.

Nick Mangold is coming off a injury but he was still viewed as one of the better Center in 2015 and limited action in 2016. At 33 he still has a couple more seasons and I think him paired with Yanda would be great. I think he'd be an upgrade at Center and a great mentor to whoever is drafted. 

Jason McCourty is veteran I wouldn't mind bringing in. I'd definitely attack the CB position at the top of the draft but McCourty could be a nice insurance signing that'll at best give the Ravens great depth if the rookie CB is a stud day one. Not sure he's Safety material like his brother but if he could it's a added bonus. 

David Harris if cut could be a nice 1 year bridge. Not sure what the plan for KC is, although I assume the day Orr retired the Ravens implemented a play for KC to be a ILB. Harris would be a nice veteran presence alongside CJ to help KC or any rookie drafted learn the game better. He feels like a Ravens veteran signing. Both he and Mangold are tough gritty players who have been rocks for the NYJ

Devon House could be a nice add at CB as well. He had a really solid year in 2015 with the Jags. Honestly can't remember much about him but he did play well in week 3 vs the Ravens. 

Lamar Houston only played 2 games last year due to injury, but had 8 sacks in a 2015 as a rush specialist. If he's healthy he might be worth a flier as a rotational guy to help with the pass rush if Doom doesn't take a pay cut. 

Jairus Byrd. How much of an upgrade over Webb would he be? I think it would be but i'm not sure what the price tag would be. I think much like Weddle he could be dropped into this Ravens defense and be back to playing at a high level. Not sure what happened to him in NO but he was a really good safety in Buffalo 

Haloti Ngata is on this list and if he's cut I'd love to bring him home for 1 more year. I'd like to see him and Suggs have one more year together and maybe enjoy a farewell season together similar to Ray and Ed. The last of that great Ravens Defense era. If the Ravens lose BWill and Ngata is cut, I'd bring him back to rotate and help groom Peirce and Davis. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

NFL.com has a list of guys who might get cut and I think there are some interesting names.

Nick Mangold is coming off a injury but he was still viewed as one of the better Center in 2015 and limited action in 2016. At 33 he still has a couple more seasons and I think him paired with Yanda would be great. I think he'd be an upgrade at Center and a great mentor to whoever is drafted. 

Jason McCourty is veteran I wouldn't mind bringing in. I'd definitely attack the CB position at the top of the draft but McCourty could be a nice insurance signing that'll at best give the Ravens great depth if the rookie CB is a stud day one. Not sure he's Safety material like his brother but if he could it's a added bonus. 

David Harris if cut could be a nice 1 year bridge. Not sure what the plan for KC is, although I assume the day Orr retired the Ravens implemented a play for KC to be a ILB. Harris would be a nice veteran presence alongside CJ to help KC or any rookie drafted learn the game better. He feels like a Ravens veteran signing. Both he and Mangold are tough gritty players who have been rocks for the NYJ

Devon House could be a nice add at CB as well. He had a really solid year in 2015 with the Jags. Honestly can't remember much about him but he did play well in week 3 vs the Ravens. 

Lamar Houston only played 2 games last year due to injury, but had 8 sacks in a 2015 as a rush specialist. If he's healthy he might be worth a flier as a rotational guy to help with the pass rush if Doom doesn't take a pay cut. 

Jairus Byrd. How much of an upgrade over Webb would he be? I think it would be but i'm not sure what the price tag would be. I think much like Weddle he could be dropped into this Ravens defense and be back to playing at a high level. Not sure what happened to him in NO but he was a really good safety in Buffalo 

Haloti Ngata is on this list and if he's cut I'd love to bring him home for 1 more year. I'd like to see him and Suggs have one more year together and maybe enjoy a farewell season together similar to Ray and Ed. The last of that great Ravens Defense era. If the Ravens lose BWill and Ngata is cut, I'd bring him back to rotate and help groom Peirce and Davis. 

 

Definitely some interesting names there. I like Mangold. I'm looking for the next Matt Birk ... some guy who moves along from his former team but still had a lot in the tank and provides much needed leadership from the center position. Of course, I don't really know where he is at the moment and not all players age as gracefully as others. He's still worth a check out. 

If we lose Williams and if Ngata came relatively cheap, he'd be a welcome rotational player in the middle. 

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55 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

NFL.com has a list of guys who might get cut and I think there are some interesting names.

Nick Mangold is coming off a injury but he was still viewed as one of the better Center in 2015 and limited action in 2016. At 33 he still has a couple more seasons and I think him paired with Yanda would be great. I think he'd be an upgrade at Center and a great mentor to whoever is drafted. 

Jason McCourty is veteran I wouldn't mind bringing in. I'd definitely attack the CB position at the top of the draft but McCourty could be a nice insurance signing that'll at best give the Ravens great depth if the rookie CB is a stud day one. Not sure he's Safety material like his brother but if he could it's a added bonus. 

David Harris if cut could be a nice 1 year bridge. Not sure what the plan for KC is, although I assume the day Orr retired the Ravens implemented a play for KC to be a ILB. Harris would be a nice veteran presence alongside CJ to help KC or any rookie drafted learn the game better. He feels like a Ravens veteran signing. Both he and Mangold are tough gritty players who have been rocks for the NYJ

Devon House could be a nice add at CB as well. He had a really solid year in 2015 with the Jags. Honestly can't remember much about him but he did play well in week 3 vs the Ravens. 

Lamar Houston only played 2 games last year due to injury, but had 8 sacks in a 2015 as a rush specialist. If he's healthy he might be worth a flier as a rotational guy to help with the pass rush if Doom doesn't take a pay cut. 

Jairus Byrd. How much of an upgrade over Webb would he be? I think it would be but i'm not sure what the price tag would be. I think much like Weddle he could be dropped into this Ravens defense and be back to playing at a high level. Not sure what happened to him in NO but he was a really good safety in Buffalo 

Haloti Ngata is on this list and if he's cut I'd love to bring him home for 1 more year. I'd like to see him and Suggs have one more year together and maybe enjoy a farewell season together similar to Ray and Ed. The last of that great Ravens Defense era. If the Ravens lose BWill and Ngata is cut, I'd bring him back to rotate and help groom Peirce and Davis. 

 

Out of everyone on that list, as soon as FA starts, the only guy I'm interested in is really Nick Mangold. If I'm making an improvement at CB/OLB, then I want to go big or go home at each of the respective positions. I'm looking at the market for the top FA OLBs/CBs and if the price is right then I'm certainly for bringing them in, if not then I'm okay with looking towards those other guys, but Mangold would be a solid signing, he may have declined but we need as much maulers as we can get here. I haven't kept up with him honestly but I know what he was at his best, even if he's declined a bit, I just want a Center who can push the pocket and help big on inside runs. 

I just don't know about Ngata, I don't know how much he has left and I think he can delay bringing a guy like Michael Pierce who has big potential into the mix. I just don't think Ngata is a need if we bring back Brandon Williams as heartbreaking as that sounds. 

Back to Mangold, a lot of his struggles were attributed to his injuries, and it's not like the Jets are desperate to let him go, they have weighed in keeping him at a restructure but the cap savings is too much to do so. Personally I would say bring him in for a visit and don't let him leave till he signs. 

Edited by PurpleCity5
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11 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I just don't know about Ngata, I don't know how much he has left and I think he can delay bringing a guy like Michael Pierce who has big potential into the mix. I just don't think Ngata is a need if we bring back Brandon Williams as heartbreaking as that sounds. 

Yeah - there is no need to add an interior D lineman to the mix, if Williams stays. But if he doesn't ... I wouldn't worry about anyone taking snaps away from Pierce. He's simply not the kind of player who is going to be on the field for a huge number of snaps anyway. He'll be on the field as much as he can reasonably be out there without wearing down. So you still you need some rotational players and that's all that Ngata could possibly be.

Really, it comes down to whether or not we think Carl Davis has anything to offer. If we think he can be that rotational player, then we may have all we'd need to fill the void - I'm just not sure he's shown us much of anything at this point. 

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57 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

Definitely some interesting names there. I like Mangold. I'm looking for the next Matt Birk ... some guy who moves along from his former team but still had a lot in the tank and provides much needed leadership from the center position. Of course, I don't really know where he is at the moment and not all players age as gracefully as others. He's still worth a check out. 

If we lose Williams and if Ngata came relatively cheap, he'd be a welcome rotational player in the middle. 

Yea if you can find a Matt Birk type player that'd be idea. But I'd take another Zuttah trade situation. I've always thought if Zuttah said in that Kubiak ZBS that his trade would have looked much better. So if we can find a 27-29 year old vet that has a young buck pushing him down the depth chart, I wouldn't mind trading for him if he fits. 

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39 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Out of everyone on that list, as soon as FA starts, the only guy I'm interested in is really Nick Mangold. If I'm making an improvement at CB/OLB, then I want to go big or go home at each of the respective positions. I'm looking at the market for the top FA OLBs/CBs and if the price is right then I'm certainly for bringing them in, if not then I'm okay with looking towards those other guys, but Mangold would be a solid signing, he may have declined but we need as much maulers as we can get here. I haven't kept up with him honestly but I know what he was at his best, even if he's declined a bit, I just want a Center who can push the pocket and help big on inside runs. 

I just don't know about Ngata, I don't know how much he has left and I think he can delay bringing a guy like Michael Pierce who has big potential into the mix. I just don't think Ngata is a need if we bring back Brandon Williams as heartbreaking as that sounds. 

Back to Mangold, a lot of his struggles were attributed to his injuries, and it's not like the Jets are desperate to let him go, they have weighed in keeping him at a restructure but the cap savings is too much to do so. Personally I would say bring him in for a visit and don't let him leave till he signs. 

Yea it's not a really impressive list in terms of bring excitement to the fan base, but knowing how much the Ravens like to find value in veteran on the back 9 of their careers, especially on defense were you're more likely to rotate guys, I thought some of those names would be worth keeping a eye on. 

Mangold definitely is the guy who'd really get excited about adding. But he's already said he'd love to stay in NY and might even be open to taking a pay cut to do so. So he might not even hit the market, but if he does, i agree, bring him in and don't let him leave until the contract is signed. 

If BWill is brought back there's no way Ngata is signed. It'd be no point lol. But if we lose BWill which is a real possibility, you'll have Pierce and Davis as the top guys. At that point I think Ngata would be worth a 1yr deal for a backup guy. Carl Davis is a guy that needs to be pushed and for 2017 Ngata would be a good guy to push him. If he outplays Ngata than great you aren't paying Ngata much anyway, keep him until the end of the season and allow him to retire a Raven. If Carl Davis can't outplay Ngata, than you know you need a upgrade at that position moving forward. I really like Pierce and think he'll be more than ok even as the top guy. 

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1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Yea it's not a really impressive list in terms of bring excitement to the fan base, but knowing how much the Ravens like to find value in veteran on the back 9 of their careers, especially on defense were you're more likely to rotate guys, I thought some of those names would be worth keeping a eye on. 

Mangold definitely is the guy who'd really get excited about adding. But he's already said he'd love to stay in NY and might even be open to taking a pay cut to do so. So he might not even hit the market, but if he does, i agree, bring him in and don't let him leave until the contract is signed. 

If BWill is brought back there's no way Ngata is signed. It'd be no point lol. But if we lose BWill which is a real possibility, you'll have Pierce and Davis as the top guys. At that point I think Ngata would be worth a 1yr deal for a backup guy. Carl Davis is a guy that needs to be pushed and for 2017 Ngata would be a good guy to push him. If he outplays Ngata than great you aren't paying Ngata much anyway, keep him until the end of the season and allow him to retire a Raven. If Carl Davis can't outplay Ngata, than you know you need a upgrade at that position moving forward. I really like Pierce and think he'll be more than ok even as the top guy. 

The Ravens tend to find gems and contributors among veteran cuts. I personally view Mangold in that category, he would love to stay in NY but in a lot of websites and sources I've read, it seems that he's not returning and that there's a good chance he's cut. If so I could certainly imagine him coming here. As you said in regards to other FAs, sell, sell, SELL on him playing with a franchise as good and managed as the Ravens. Playing for the Jets takes a toll on a player and I know he wants to know what winning feels like again. He's made his money, I don't think he wants to waste his time playing for an underwhelming franchise like Cleveland unless someone severely overpays which I doubt will be the case. 

I think he'll compliment Yanda very well and both will further influence Stanley and Lewis to be more physical linemen. You can't let him leave the facility without a deal. 

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23 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

The Ravens tend to find gems and contributors among veteran cuts. I personally view Mangold in that category, he would love to stay in NY but in a lot of websites and sources I've read, it seems that he's not returning and that there's a good chance he's cut. If so I could certainly imagine him coming here. As you said in regards to other FAs, sell, sell, SELL on him playing with a franchise as good and managed as the Ravens. Playing for the Jets takes a toll on a player and I know he wants to know what winning feels like again. He's made his money, I don't think he wants to waste his time playing for an underwhelming franchise like Cleveland unless someone severely overpays which I doubt will be the case. 

I think he'll compliment Yanda very well and both will further influence Stanley and Lewis to be more physical linemen. You can't let him leave the facility without a deal. 

Agreed. Don't know what their relationship is but he's played under Marty before and was said to have mastered the oline calls. So that might be another plus. 

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Mangold is the only guy out there I'm interested in as well. Just only if he's cut, I'm sure the Jets would ask for too much in a trade and some team that's not us would be willing to overpay in trade compensation. 

Doesn't Pierce play NT for us? Ngata would fit in where he was before, 3-4 DE. Ngata, Pierce and Jernigan. 

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6 hours ago, JO_75 said:

Mangold is the only guy out there I'm interested in as well. Just only if he's cut, I'm sure the Jets would ask for too much in a trade and some team that's not us would be willing to overpay in trade compensation. 

Doesn't Pierce play NT for us? Ngata would fit in where he was before, 3-4 DE. Ngata, Pierce and Jernigan. 

I don't think anyone is paying Mangold big money and if the difference in money between us and let's say a team like the Jaguars is minimal, than I think he'll opt for joining the Ravens. 

Ngata split time at NT and DE during his time here. When Brandon Williams emerged back in 2014 Ngata played more DE but prior to that he split time and played a bit more NT than DE. If Williams leave he'll likely push Pierce for that NT role. 

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8 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Agreed. Don't know what their relationship is but he's played under Marty before and was said to have mastered the oline calls. So that might be another plus. 

I think he'll be a great fit here. 

Here's another name, what about Arthur Jones? I know he's disappointed Indy since signing there and he's had injury plagued seasons here as well but when healthy he was pretty good, I personally think he would be a really good low cost signing if we managed to lose Lawrence Guy. 

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7 hours ago, JO_75 said:

Mangold is the only guy out there I'm interested in as well. Just only if he's cut, I'm sure the Jets would ask for too much in a trade and some team that's not us would be willing to overpay in trade compensation. 

Doesn't Pierce play NT for us? Ngata would fit in where he was before, 3-4 DE. Ngata, Pierce and Jernigan. 

Ngata is under contract reasonably with the Lions next season.

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Connor Barwin is almost assuredly out in Phili. Have to imagine Baltimore calls.

I mentioned him several months ago, but he's the type of guy Baltimore would love to add.

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1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Connor Barwin is almost assuredly out in Phili. Have to imagine Baltimore calls.

I mentioned him several months ago, but he's the type of guy Baltimore would love to add.

I like Barwin, he was a top pass rusher along with Doom in 2014 and I don't think he's too far away from what he used to be capable of. I like him here. I read that he has suitors so I don't know how much we can pay up. 

Edited by PurpleCity5
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8 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I like Barwin, he was a top pass rusher along with Doom in 2014 and I don't think he's too far away from what he used to be capable of. I like him here. I read that he has suitors so I don't know how much we can pay up. 

Baltimore is speculated to be a team asking.

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7 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Connor Barwin is almost assuredly out in Phili. Have to imagine Baltimore calls.

I mentioned him several months ago, but he's the type of guy Baltimore would love to add.

Barwin younger but if the issue with Doom is just that he was dealing with a torn acl and could possibly regain form after healing then why entertain trading for  a 30 year old pass rush coming off a down year  with a cap hit of 8 million when the team could probably save money by asking Doom to take a pay cut and still have a pass rusher?

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1 hour ago, jazz1988 said:

Barwin younger but if the issue with Doom is just that he was dealing with a torn acl and could possibly regain form after healing then why entertain trading for  a 30 year old pass rush coming off a down year  with a cap hit of 8 million when the team could probably save money by asking Doom to take a pay cut and still have a pass rusher?

Barwin, when operating in the 3-4, has been an incredibly good run defender and pretty decent in pass coverage. That's already a big improvement from Doom. He's also a decent situational pass rusher. You can probably count on him for seven or eight sacks a year, which is more than enough for me when you couple in an extremely high character (he reportedly takes the bus to games just to talk to fans), strong run defense, and decent pass coverage.

He's a trade for and sign candidate.

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10 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Baltimore is speculated to be a team asking.

Oh wow, that's interesting. I wonder how much we're willing to give up. 

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On 2/17/2017 at 8:40 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

 

 Either guy would be a really good fit for the Ravens offense moving forward. If you want a Derrick Mason type possession guy, Garcon is probably you're man. But based off what the Ravens said they wanted, a physical possession type guy who can consistently keep the chain moving and make big plays down field when the team needs it, Britt appears to be the better fit and more likely to provide those big spark plays that Steve Smith gave us. I think based off perception many people will take the same stance as you and Garcon will be a hot commodity driving his price. Britt will be viewed as a 3rd tier FA WR  when it's all said and done imo.  

I'm focusing on this part because this is the crux of where we differ. 

The Ravens said they want a complimentary receiver. I don't think that means big, physical and who can make plays down field when needed. 

I honestly don't think Marshall, Garçon or Britt is necessarily what they're looking for, but I'd definitely take Marshall bc I think he's a far superior player that won't cost as much and can likely be had on a shorter deal and therefore you're not taking on as much risk. 

Britt is going to cost similar to the other two, but doesn't have the track record (even if comparable over a recent 2-3 year snap shot), has never stood out on a good team, and is going to require a 5 year commitment. Not doing that on a questionable player. 

You mentioned Derrick Mason which is exactly what I envision when the Ravens say complimentary to what we already have. We have two outside guys who can make big plays down field, can take short crossing routes to the house with their speed. We have big and physical WR and TEs. 

We need craft route running. Garçon imo is the best of the 3 in that regard. 

I think they want an Edelman type guy personally. A guy that gets open early and often, finds soft spots over the middle but can go outside if needed. 

None of these 3 are that, but I think Garçon is the closest. The ideal scenario is Camp is this guy... and that's another reason why I prefer and older stop gap type player instead of committing 5 years to someone like Britt. 

Perriman is on this team and should fill whatever you could hope Britt to bring to the table and hopefully much more on a smaller deal over the next 3 years. 

 

Thats it. That's all I'm saying. 

Marshall imo in hands down the best player of the bunch and would likely come plug a hole for a year or two. Might not fit exactly what they're looking for but clearly upgrades the group. 

Garcon gets open. Wins with route running and hands. To me that's a closer fit to what they mean by complimentary than either of the other two. Big plays, speed, physical - all that should be covered by what's on the roster. We need precision, timing and sure hands. 

Britt - not saying he's definitely a bad player and wouldn't upgrade the group. But I'm definitely not cutting Wallace to get him which I've seen suggested. He hasn't done it enough for me to commit 5 years and money to. And imo what you'd hope he brings is exactly what I'm already expecting Perriman to do and more. 

 

Even if all the stats break down similarly over a 2-3 year snap shot, it's by far the best snap shot of Britts career. Garçons entire career looks like that. We've already got high upside guys we're hoping to break out in a big way.... I'm not spending more in hopes of finding the same result. 

In a business of no sure things, at a position we've historically had trouble with, I'm putting my money on the surest things. Garçon has been consistent.

His floor is something I'd be satisfied with. Marshall can be a down right monster and won't take much commitment. For Britt, you're banking on him replicating his absolute best year ever consistently for the next 3-5 years just for the deal to make sense. If he becomes Kenny Britt again you're screwed. 

And if I can't get the more sure thing I'm spending way less money to bring back Aiken and giving him more opportunity. Over the past 3 years is ratio of targets to catches to yards is pretty darn similar. And all 3 were with the Ravens. 

I'd rather pay half or less to Aiken and bank on that if I triple his opportunity he'll triple the return. 

 

Side note: for any of the 1st down stats to really tell us anything we'd have to know things like average depth of target and down/distance of each. Meaning if every throw to a player was at a depth of 12 yds and on 1st down and 10... yes every catch will be a 1st down. That doesn't mean he's a clutch guy on 3rd down who gets open in obvious passing situations and can fight for that 1st. 

Not knocking or discrediting any of it... just pointing out that without context it's just as simple as comparing yards and catches. 

Edited by BOLDnPurPnBlacK
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6 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Oh wow, that's interesting. I wonder how much we're willing to give up. 

Phili will almost assuredly cut him if he can't be traded, so I can't imagine very much. Mid round pick.

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On 2/17/2017 at 0:29 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

I hate to seem like i'm picking but are you truly aware of what you're typing. None of it adds up. I'd rather you just say you don't like Britt period because the reasons you're giving not to like him over other guys just don't add up. 

Neither Boldin nor Sr has ever surpassed 50 1st downs for the Ravens. You'll find it hard to discover one person in the Ravens organization that don't want the type of production those guys gave on 3rd downs. Furthermore, you say he's not a high volume guy. Well how can you be a high volume guy if you're not even targeted more than 84 times a season? Garcon has only surpassed 50 1st downs twice in his career and 1 of those seasons he was targeted 181 times. Marshall has surpassed 50+ 1st down 7 times and in every season he was targeted at least 140 times. Volume comes with targets and Britt just doesn't get as many as those guys. Britt converts 70%+ of his catches into 1st downs. I wonder what head do with more targets. 

Secondly. You said Britt isn't as good in the redzone as Garcon or Marshall. Well lets look at the numbers.

Garcon 13 targets 5recs 1TD

Britt: 12 targets 6recs 4TDs

BMarsh: 22 targets 7recs 4TDs

Garcon comes up short here. Now onto the 3rd down claim you made. 

Based on the site i looked at Britt converted 17 3rd downs into 1st downs last year, Garcon nor Marshall made the list.On 3rd and 7 or greater, Britt converted 6, Marshall converted 5 and again Garcon didn't make the list.  http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=&type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=104

Not beating up on your opinion nor am i downing Marshall or Garcon cause i'd be happy with either, I just think you're sleeping on Britt unjustly. I agree with you on one thing tho. I could certainly see him getting close to 10Mil from someone and that'd probably push him out of the Ravens range, but the more I look into Britt the more I feel he's worth it and if Wallace is cut at his expense I wouldn't be upset. 

While the numbers look as though they point to Britt, I don't trust him or his knees. Also, thinking those stats are probably a product of him being the lone option in the Rams receiving corps. Remember 2015 Aiken? 

Marshall is a beast but will be high $ and brings his own set of risks.

For me Garcon is the best option of these 3. He's sure handed, been pretty healthy throughout his career and is a stand up guy. Just seems to make sense.  Question is are the Skins going to let him walk and if he's available can the Ravens sign him. I for one sure hope so. 

Edit.... Just read some of the other related posts and it looks like I just regurgitated much of what has already been said. Sorry for the repeat. 

Edited by Tank 92
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On 2/17/2017 at 1:04 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

Yea i'd have no issue with re-signing Aiken and I've even said that Aiken made a believer out of me when the Ravens had to rely on him in 2015, I don't get the notion that a guys production should be minimized because he's he teams only option. That would make things tougher for him I'd think. True is, every offense force feeds their best players whomever that my be. I just get the feeling the Ravens are more than willing to allow Aiken to walk if he can get a nice deal somewhere. 

I certainly agree that Britt is more talented and has more potential than Aiken, but that should be expected of a former 1st round pick. I just see Aiken as a nice possession WR and that'd be great if the Ravens already had an established play maker on the roster. But they don't yet and they need whomever they bring in to be both a chain mover and play maker. 

The problem is that Aiken probably has an issue with re-signing. I highly doubt he sticks around.

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