Free Agency 2017 (Players from Other Teams We Should Consider)

[Deflated Football]

It would be unbelievably stupid to cut Wallace 

[balfan23]

10 minutes ago, hereweare said:

Also, numbers don't make sense to me... 30m to 14mil. So 16m spent on the resignees 10 of it going to Wagner and Juice. So 6m is left over for the tenders AND BWill??

The drop from $30M to $16M that was stated includes the $6M for tenders to only 2-3 RFAs (Orr, West and maybe Camp) plus non-notable EFA signings. Another $5M (which I've heard is going to be more like $6.5M) for signing the rookie class. Then $10M for Wagner and Juice (which is very much an estimate without a real knowledge of what the market will bear). 

So that leaves about $9M for FA signings other than Wagner and Juice. We'll probably get some additional relief by offering extensions to Webb and perhaps Wallace (or cutting them, if extensions can't be worked out). Understand though - we have a roster to fill out as there are still going to be significant holes to fill. I anticipate all of our free money is going to be spent filling other holes with mid-level FAs and other teams roster cuts. 

Put it all together and this is why many of us believe it is a foregone conclusion that B Will is not going to be a Raven in 2017. Perhaps we find the money to do it, but that will mean going super cheap on trying to address other needs. 

[rmw10]

50 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

We'll have about $30,000,000 in cap space if we cut Pitta, Arrington, Elvis, Lewis and Watson. We'll need to tender Orr, Camp and West and then we'll have to resign people like Juice, Wagner and Williams. Assuming all those signings are made(including tenders and Juice for $4 mil and Wagner for $6 mil) we'd theoretically have around $14 million to work with after words. Draft classes carry an average of $5 million in cap. giving us about $9 million to use on signing other players.

 

Don't expect many moves this time. We'll have to NAIL the 2017 draft and have our recent 2nd and 3rd round busts turn things around if we want to be contenders next season.

I am curious though - what's the salary cap that you're using?  I know it's supposed to take a pretty nice jump again this year but I don't know what number you're basing this off of.  I'm just too lazy to do the math today.

[hereweare]

49 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

The drop from $30M to $16M that was stated includes the $6M for tenders to only 2-3 RFAs (Orr, West and maybe Camp) plus non-notable EFA signings. Another $5M (which I've heard is going to be more like $6.5M) for signing the rookie class. Then $10M for Wagner and Juice (which is very much an estimate without a real knowledge of what the market will bear). 

So that leaves about $9M for FA signings other than Wagner and Juice. We'll probably get some additional relief by offering extensions to Webb and perhaps Wallace (or cutting them, if extensions can't be worked out). Understand though - we have a roster to fill out as there are still going to be significant holes to fill. I anticipate all of our free money is going to be spent filling other holes with mid-level FAs and other teams roster cuts. 

Put it all together and this is why many of us believe it is a foregone conclusion that B Will is not going to be a Raven in 2017. Perhaps we find the money to do it, but that will mean going super cheap on trying to address other needs. 

Oh I agree. It said "assuming all those signings are made" so I included BWill in the numbers.

 

So WITH extensions to Wallace and Webb and without resigning BWill.. that leaves about 15mil in space? Wallaces current 8mil cap hit down to 5m and Webbs 7.5m down to 5m

Edited December 29, 2016 by hereweare

[balfan23]

44 minutes ago, hereweare said:

Oh I agree. It said "assuming all those signings are made" so I included BWill in the numbers.

 

So WITH extensions to Wallace and Webb and without resigning BWill.. that leaves about 15mil in space? Wallaces current 8mil cap hit down to 5m and Webbs 7.5m down to 5m

Yes - give or take. The fact is, we really don't know what it is going to take to sign our FAs Juice and Wagner or whether Wallace or Webb will be extended. 

Personally, I prefer to look at it as having $18M in space, after we sign 3 RFAs (Orr, West and Camp), our ERFAs, hold back $6.5M for rookie signings and cut Doom, Pitta, Watson, Arrington and Lewis. 

Depending on how many of our rookies make the 53-man roster, that leaves us with only about 43-46 players on the roster. Obviously, that means a nice chunk of that $18M in space will be dedicated to filling out the roster, above and beyond the FAs that we sign who are noteworthy. 

IMO the best resource for all things cap is Brian McFarland: 

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/12/27/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/ravens-2017-offseason-preview/

[Sizzlebshu]

Wallace shouldn't be brought back in all honesty and I doubt he will be. He hasn't played at nearly a high enough level to justify 5 mil. Further, we drafted Chris Moore to replace him so I think that's what we do there. 

[Deflated Football]

4 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Wallace shouldn't be brought back in all honesty and I doubt he will be. He hasn't played at nearly a high enough level to justify 5 mil. Further, we drafted Chris Moore to replace him so I think that's what we do there. 

Lol... just lol. I'm speechless. 

[Cillmatic]

4 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Wallace shouldn't be brought back in all honesty and I doubt he will be. He hasn't played at nearly a high enough level to justify 5 mil. Further, we drafted Chris Moore to replace him so I think that's what we do there. 

Chris Moore has the worst hands on the team and he's not as fast as Mike.

[JoeyFlex5]

14 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Wallace shouldn't be brought back in all honesty and I doubt he will be. He hasn't played at nearly a high enough level to justify 5 mil. Further, we drafted Chris Moore to replace him so I think that's what we do there. 

oh right hes the only receiver that even sniffed a thousand yards and was damn near our entire passing offense... 

[Prino61]

Ravens claim Cowboys WR Vince Mayle off waivers, place Zach Orr on IR

 

Do anyone know anything about this Vince Mayle guy?

[allblackraven]

4 hours ago, Prino61 said:

Ravens claim Cowboys WR Vince Mayle off waivers, place Zach Orr on IR

 

Do anyone know anything about this Vince Mayle guy?

Very athletic and had great senior year at college but will drive everybody crazy dropping the ball all over the place.

[hn68wb4]

8 hours ago, Prino61 said:

Ravens claim Cowboys WR Vince Mayle off waivers, place Zach Orr on IR

 

Do anyone know anything about this Vince Mayle guy?

Interesting prospect coming out of college, but as usual his stats were padded from playing at Washington State and hasn't played well in the pros at all. He's a dropper with limited speed and hasn't developed enough as a route runner...I'd be surprised if he stuck around for long.

[JoeyFlex5]

13 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

Interesting prospect coming out of college, but as usual his stats were padded from playing at Washington State and hasn't played well in the pros at all. He's a dropper with limited speed and hasn't developed enough as a route runner...I'd be surprised if he stuck around for long.

Have you seen our wr corps? 

[RaineV1]

Mayle is a high reward, low risk type of pickup. If he can do something, that's nice, but either way the Ravens don't lose anything checking him out.

[kjbmore]

I just want some big bodied strong wr, last time we had that we won a SB

speed on the perimeter, size and strong hands down the guts 

it seemed pretty rare that Flacco was hitting guys in stride, having shifty small guys is all well n good but joe seems to struggle with his accuracy

so many of his completions seem to be to stationary guys sitting down in the sweet spot or him throwing to a spot and guys making a play, it seems rare that he hits somebody in stride and they pick up yac unless it's a dump off to back - so many throws seem to be behind guys, or at their toes - they're flat out just making the catch let alone making a play after the catch

we have to acknowledge what our QBs strengths and weaknesses are - Carolina recognised Newton had problems with his accuracy and zinging balls over receivers heads so they went out and got 6'5 receivers and let 5'9 SSR walk - seemed to work out pretty well for them

i wish we'd just give Joe some big strong guys he can just throw it up to

remember so many of boldins big catches on our sb run were just 50/50 balls and he was just going up and making the play and beating defenders, it wasn't so much that they were super well placed throws, even torreys couple of big TDs against Denver - just put it up and let our guy make a play

it doesn't surprise me that Moore looks to have bad hands with Joe throwing behind you or at your knees while you're running into traffic

[rmcjacket23]

19 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

I just want some big bodied strong wr, last time we had that we won a SB

speed on the perimeter, size and strong hands down the guts 

it seemed pretty rare that Flacco was hitting guys in stride, having shifty small guys is all well n good but joe seems to struggle with his accuracy

so many of his completions seem to be to stationary guys sitting down in the sweet spot or him throwing to a spot and guys making a play, it seems rare that he hits somebody in stride and they pick up yac unless it's a dump off to back - so many throws seem to be behind guys, or at their toes - they're flat out just making the catch let alone making a play after the catch

we have to acknowledge what our QBs strengths and weaknesses are - Carolina recognised Newton had problems with his accuracy and zinging balls over receivers heads so they went out and got 6'5 receivers and let 5'9 SSR walk - seemed to work out pretty well for them

i wish we'd just give Joe some big strong guys he can just throw it up to

remember so many of boldins big catches on our sb run were just 50/50 balls and he was just going up and making the play and beating defenders, it wasn't so much that they were super well placed throws, even torreys couple of big TDs against Denver - just put it up and let our guy make a play

it doesn't surprise me that Moore looks to have bad hands with Joe throwing behind you or at your knees while you're running into traffic

I don't think you want me to pull out the game film of Joe hitting Moore on time, in rhythm, and with great ball placement and Moore dropping the pass. That's not a one time thing either.

There's perception, and then there's reality, and in a lot of fans cases these two things differ in a BIG way.

[kjbmore]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I don't think you want me to pull out the game film of Joe hitting Moore on time, in rhythm, and with great ball placement and Moore dropping the pass. That's not a one time thing either.

There's perception, and then there's reality, and in a lot of fans cases these two things differ in a BIG way.

yeah cool bud, don't forget to include the game film of Flacco throwing behind guys or at their toes or just flat out not even close - should be a bit of that floating around too

[rmcjacket23]

19 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

yeah cool bud, don't forget to include the game film of Flacco throwing behind guys or at their toes or just flat out not even close - should be a bit of that floating around too

So because Joe missed him on some throws, any throw that Moore doesn't catch is on Joe?

When you say it doesn't surprise you to see Moore bad hands because Joe is missing him, does that mean that its acceptable for Moore to just drop passes that are easy catches? Is that the standard you're setting? Because the QB doesn't give you a perfectly thrown ball all the time its understandable if you drop the easy one's?

Yeah, that's not a Joe Flacco problem. That's a Chris Moore/kjbmore problem.

[kjbmore]

Yep if Moore doesn't catch it, it's Joes fault, every dropped pass is Joes fault

thats the standard I'm setting 

[rmcjacket23]

19 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Yep if Moore doesn't catch it, it's Joes fault, every dropped pass is Joes fault

thats the standard I'm setting 

Cool. Luckily those standards are for you and you alone and nobody is actually evaluated based on those standards.

[usmccharles]

11 hours ago, kjbmore said:

Yep if Moore doesn't catch it, it's Joes fault, every dropped pass is Joes fault

thats the standard I'm setting 

This must be sarcasm 

[raven-flavored-ultron]

On 12/29/2016 at 11:26 AM, Cillmatic said:

We'll have about $30,000,000 in cap space if we cut Pitta, Arrington, Elvis, Lewis and Watson. We'll need to tender Orr, Camp and West and then we'll have to resign people like Juice, Wagner and Williams. Assuming all those signings are made(including tenders and Juice for $4 mil and Wagner for $6 mil) we'd theoretically have around $14 million to work with after words. Draft classes carry an average of $5 million in cap. giving us about $9 million to use on signing other players.

 

Don't expect many moves this time. We'll have to NAIL the 2017 draft and have our recent 2nd and 3rd round busts turn things around if we want to be contenders next season.

That's not going to work. I'm pretty sure that a man like Bisciotti is going to give Newsome and Harbaugh the treatment here in a day or two. He's been very patient with both and the expectations for next year are probably going to be Super Bowl contention or the ax. That's going to necessitate an instant injection of transcendent talent, like Ozzie you better get a Julio Jones clone in here regardless of what need to be done to get him in here: trade, free agency, draft. There is no patience left at this point, and quarter-measures are not making this team a Super Bowl contender. The poor drafts and bad schemes are coming home to roost, so if big rooster moves aren't imminent, this team is neither contending, and the incumbent administration isn't going to keep their jobs.

The schemes can be fixed with new assistants, perhaps some of the holes can be filled by young guys that finally realize their potential (I'm looking at dudes like Maxx Williams who was being compared to Jason Witten when we drafted him), but for the most part this team needs a couple of players on an All-Pro level. The front office better find them fast for their own survival. Bisciotti hasn't put the screws to Newsome or Harbaugh yet, when he does, we better just hope it doesn't force them to make a debilitating move that eventually costs them their jobs anyway and puts the organization in a hole. The sort of scenario you get when you have too much patience with a front office and coaching staff.

[usmccharles]

9 minutes ago, raven-flavored-ultron said:

That's not going to work. I'm pretty sure that a man like Bisciotti is going to give Newsome and Harbaugh the treatment here in a day or two. He's been very patient with both and the expectations for next year are probably going to be Super Bowl contention or the ax. That's going to necessitate an instant injection of transcendent talent, like Ozzie you better get a Julio Jones clone in here regardless of what need to be done to get him in here: trade, free agency, draft. There is no patience left at this point, and quarter-measures are not making this team a Super Bowl contender. The poor drafts and bad schemes are coming home to roost, so if big rooster moves aren't imminent, this team is neither contending, and the incumbent administration isn't going to keep their jobs.

The schemes can be fixed with new assistants, perhaps some of the holes can be filled by young guys that finally realize their potential (I'm looking at dudes like Maxx Williams who was being compared to Jason Witten when we drafted him), but for the most part this team needs a couple of players on an All-Pro level. The front office better find them fast for their own survival. Bisciotti hasn't put the screws to Newsome or Harbaugh yet, when he does, we better just hope it doesn't force them to make a debilitating move that eventually costs them their jobs anyway and puts the organization in a hole. The sort of scenario you get when you have too much patience with a front office and coaching staff.

While I understand your issues and the use of the word patience,  just two years ago we were beating down the pats in New England.  And one thing you have to thing about,  when someone does their job above and beyond for so long you start having expectations that aren't real.   You can't judge Ozzie on a single draft or a single player,  you look at the body of work and ask: does he hit more than he misses.  

[kjbmore]

13 hours ago, usmccharles said:

This must be sarcasm 

Clearly, but our resident NFL guru will always have something to add

 

[ravensnj]

I really think Kendall Wright can help this team. This guy is becoming a free agent and has a knack for getting open, even though he doesn't have top end speed. He will be cost friendly and can actually catch the ball. 

[K-Dog]

4 minutes ago, ravensnj said:

I really think Kendall Wright can help this team. This guy is becoming a free agent and has a knack for getting open, even though he doesn't have top end speed. He will be cost friendly and can actually catch the ball. 

Getting open is good enough for me.  Send him on down.

[Purple Punishment]

On 12/30/2016 at 3:14 PM, Sizzlebshu said:

Wallace shouldn't be brought back in all honesty and I doubt he will be. He hasn't played at nearly a high enough level to justify 5 mil. Further, we drafted Chris Moore to replace him so I think that's what we do there. 

Didn't we sign Wallace after the draft happened? Meaning we didn't draft Moore to replace him?

[Dubs]

1 hour ago, ravensnj said:

I really think Kendall Wright can help this team. This guy is becoming a free agent and has a knack for getting open, even though he doesn't have top end speed. He will be cost friendly and can actually catch the ball. 

I would be very interested in giving him a shot. Was one of my favourite receivers in the draft he came out in--he is known for freelancing which can be a big issue on offences that care about route running and timing--Not sure his skills would blossom with someone like the Ravens but there is the small chance.. From that perspective I would much prefer Garcon who is well known for being coached up and understanding the importance of playing within the system by Peyton Manning

[hn68wb4]

3 minutes ago, Purple Punishment said:

Didn't we sign Wallace after the draft happened? Meaning we didn't draft Moore to replace him?

I don't believe so, I think we signed him literally the day after we signed Weddle in March

[usmccharles]

2 hours ago, Purple Punishment said:

Didn't we sign Wallace after the draft happened? Meaning we didn't draft Moore to replace him?

March 15th if my memory is correct