Free Agency 2017 (Players from Other Teams We Should Consider)

[rmcjacket23]

35 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

I wouldn't complain about upgrading the receiving corps in FA. Michael Floyd was just released from the Cardinals today over a DUI- never been our MO but I'd be happy if we picked him off waivers. I also think that Randall Cobb could be a Cap Casualty this offseason and I'd love to see if the Ravens could bring him in at a reasonable price. 

Packers have like $27M in cap space heading into next season already and they rarely spend much money in FA, so I don't see the need for them to cut him.

[jboy19]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Packers have like $27M in cap space heading into next season already and they rarely spend much money in FA, so I don't see the need for them to cut him.

They've completely phased him out of their offense and wouldn't be incurring much dead money relative to his cap hit. I doubt they're gonna spend 12 mil on him next year. 

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

They've completely phased him out of their offense and wouldn't be incurring much dead money relative to his cap hit. I doubt they're gonna spend 12 mil on him next year. 

Not the right way to look at it.

1. For starters, the dead money is $6.25M, which is certainly significant. It would be somewhere in the range of 4-5% of the salary cap.

2. The amount they actually pay him $8.6M, not $12.75M. That's the cap impact, with about $3.25M of that having been paid to him in the past already. 

3. The REAL impact is $6.5M... that's the cap savings. So the question GB would have to ask themselves is whether they could find a replacement level player for that type of money. My guess is no.

4. Again, teams don't really just cut players unless they plan on spending it elsewhere. A team like the Packers spends practically nothing in FA, so I'm not sure what they even need the cap space for. They have a handful of their own players who are becoming FAs that they'd probably want to resign, but again, with probably at least $20M in cap space even after they signed their draft picks, I don't think that's a big problem for them.

If they were that concerned with Cobb's number, they'd probably just ask for a paycut... maybe slashing his salary down $2-3M.

 

[redlobster]

59 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Packers have like $27M in cap space heading into next season already and they rarely spend much money in FA, so I don't see the need for them to cut him.

Packers also have a few free agents, most importantly their interior of the offensive line :

 

• Starting RG - TJ Lang
• Starting C - JC Tretter
• back up to both guard positions - Don Barclay
• Starting RB - Eddie Lacy
• Starting TE - Jared Cook
• "back up" LOLB - Julius Peppers
• Starting LOLB - Nick Perry
• back up ROLB - Datone Jones
• RB - Christine Michael

 

I am not advocating that they cut Cobb though. It looks like his Dead money and cap savings are roughly equal.

 

they have about $27 million in cap space allocated to 37 players, so they will have about $18 million after draft money set aside and before retaining any of their free agents.

[jboy19]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Not the right way to look at it.

1. For starters, the dead money is $6.25M, which is certainly significant. It would be somewhere in the range of 4-5% of the salary cap.

2. The amount they actually pay him $8.6M, not $12.75M. That's the cap impact, with about $3.25M of that having been paid to him in the past already. 

3. The REAL impact is $6.5M... that's the cap savings. So the question GB would have to ask themselves is whether they could find a replacement level player for that type of money. My guess is no.

4. Again, teams don't really just cut players unless they plan on spending it elsewhere. A team like the Packers spends practically nothing in FA, so I'm not sure what they even need the cap space for. They have a handful of their own players who are becoming FAs that they'd probably want to resign, but again, with probably at least $20M in cap space even after they signed their draft picks, I don't think that's a big problem for them.

If they were that concerned with Cobb's number, they'd probably just ask for a paycut... maybe slashing his salary down $2-3M.

 

I think you're overlooking a couple of things: 

1. If Cobb is a Post-June 1 release (which GB would probably do), his dead money gets spread out over 2017 and 2018 ($3.25M/each) which isn't very significant considering the growing cap. 

2. GB will need to spring a decent amount of money to retain some of their guys, if they want to bring back Nick Perry, that could end up costing them about $8M/year (if not more, he's maybe the top FA pass rusher considering his age and production) and trying to bring back T.J. Lang could cost them $7M/year (based on the Sitton Contract). 

I'm not saying it's overwhelmingly likely to happen, but the Packers did just cut Josh Sitton to save about $6M, and they didn't even have the depth on the OL that they have at WR. I definitely think they'd consider that move if there is a free agent they like (considering their need at CB, and the CBs going to UFA, I'd bet they'd like to grab one if they can). 

Edited December 14, 2016 by jboy19

[Cville-Raven]

I'll pass on Floyd. Never lived up to expectations and is going to be suspended for a little while. 

[RavensDieHard21]

This is a weak FA pool, unless a bunch of cap casualties happen. I'd love to see how much Johnson from LA gets paid, but I bet it will be big bucks. We need to pay our guys and have a great draft. We absolutely cannot let both Williams and Wagner go though. Williams is essential to our run stopping dominance which makes our building easier. We then can focus on pass rusher and a corner. Wagner keeps our edge safe, but Lewis might easily be able to fill the 80/20 principle. Def need a new mauler at guard if that be the case. 

[VermontRaven]

10 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

This is a weak FA pool, unless a bunch of cap casualties happen. I'd love to see how much Johnson from LA gets paid, but I bet it will be big bucks. We need to pay our guys and have a great draft. We absolutely cannot let both Williams and Wagner go though. Williams is essential to our run stopping dominance which makes our building easier. We then can focus on pass rusher and a corner. Wagner keeps our edge safe, but Lewis might easily be able to fill the 80/20 principle. Def need a new mauler at guard if that be the case. 

I agree.  Especially with the increase in gap, I think we need to make a competitive offer to both of these guys.  Hopefully, we will not be outbid on BOTH and will at least be able to retain one of them. 

If we had to choose between the 2, I think I would prefer to retain Wagner.  I think Lewis could be a very good guard for us, plus he is an acceptable backup swing tackle. Then, Yanda (hopefully fully recovered) goes back to RG and we are only looking for one starter, Center, and a quality backup or 2.  We really don't have a ton of money invested in our OL and we have Stanley and Lewis on the cheap for a few years....by the time they are ready for their big pay day, Yanda will probably (sadly) be gone. 

I absolutely love Williams and between him and Pierce (and Jernigan, Guy), we have an amazing run defense.  That being said, I think we are much better at finding quality interior Dlinemen (see Pierce) and I think we could "replace" Williams easier than Wagner.  Also, I really hope we can keep Guy as well.  I think he is a majorly underrated part of our defense (hopefully the rest of the league underrates him as well so we will be able to afford him)

 

 

[rmcjacket23]

15 hours ago, jboy19 said:

I think you're overlooking a couple of things: 

1. If Cobb is a Post-June 1 release (which GB would probably do), his dead money gets spread out over 2017 and 2018 ($3.25M/each) which isn't very significant considering the growing cap. 

2. GB will need to spring a decent amount of money to retain some of their guys, if they want to bring back Nick Perry, that could end up costing them about $8M/year (if not more, he's maybe the top FA pass rusher considering his age and production) and trying to bring back T.J. Lang could cost them $7M/year (based on the Sitton Contract). 

I'm not saying it's overwhelmingly likely to happen, but the Packers did just cut Josh Sitton to save about $6M, and they didn't even have the depth on the OL that they have at WR. I definitely think they'd consider that move if there is a free agent they like (considering their need at CB, and the CBs going to UFA, I'd bet they'd like to grab one if they can). 

1. If they did option 1, that wouldn't help them solve anything related to option 2. A post-June 1 cut means you don't get the cap space to spend until post-June 1. By that point, any of the FAs on that list are going to be long gone. That's a full three months into FA. 

2. AAV doesn't set the current year cap impact. Josh Sitton's contract, for example, is a $7M AAV, but the first year cap hit is less than $5.5M. All depends on the structure of the contracts. Fairly common league-wide for teams to take lower cap hits in the short term.

3. That's not why they cut Sitton. For starters, it had nothing to do with cap savings... they cut him in September, close to a week before the season started. You're not cutting anybody in September for current year cap savings, because there's nobody to spend that money on unless you're giving an extension to one of your own guys mid-season.

They cut him because they didn't think he as valuable anymore, and they couldn't find a trade partner, since they knew they weren't retaining him next season.

AND... I haven't even gotten to that part where there's other players on their roster that they could cut and create space if needed. 

[rmcjacket23]

16 hours ago, redlobster said:

Packers also have a few free agents, most importantly their interior of the offensive line :

 

• Starting RG - TJ Lang
• Starting C - JC Tretter
• back up to both guard positions - Don Barclay
• Starting RB - Eddie Lacy
• Starting TE - Jared Cook
• "back up" LOLB - Julius Peppers
• Starting LOLB - Nick Perry
• back up ROLB - Datone Jones
• RB - Christine Michael

 

I am not advocating that they cut Cobb though. It looks like his Dead money and cap savings are roughly equal.

 

they have about $27 million in cap space allocated to 37 players, so they will have about $18 million after draft money set aside and before retaining any of their free agents.

I've seent he list. Needless to say, half of the list is guys they probably have no interest in retaining anyway. Guys like Cook, Lacy, Peppers and Michael are a dime a dozen in this league at this point.

[BmoreBird22]

31 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I've seent he list. Needless to say, half of the list is guys they probably have no interest in retaining anyway. Guys like Cook, Lacy, Peppers and Michael are a dime a dozen in this league at this point.

I think they'd have some interest in Lacy. He was really coming on strong and was back to one of the most physical and aggressive runners in the NFL prior to this season. Won't cost a ton, either.

[rmcjacket23]

16 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think they'd have some interest in Lacy. He was really coming on strong and was back to one of the most physical and aggressive runners in the NFL prior to this season. Won't cost a ton, either.

Sure, on a one year prove it deal, everybody would have interest. But he's not the kind of player you lose a ton of sleep over if you don't resign him.

[VermontRaven]

Not sure why we are debating what the Packers will do in this forum.  The only way this relates to the Ravens is if any of these guys might be free agent targets for the Ravens.  Cobb is really the only guy I think the Ravens MIGHT be interested in for the right price, and I highly doubt he will be the "right price" for us even if he does get released.  I guess there is a small chance we "kick the tires" on someone like Lacy if it is a cheap prove-it one year deal or something like that. 

Bottom line is I don't expect the Ravens to be big players in the free agent market this year.  I think last year was an anomaly with Watson/Weddle/Wallace.  I guess, never say never if the right player came along.  For example, if a true #1 corner all of a sudden became available (which I definitely do not expect to happen), I could see Ozzie shelling out some big bucks to make a run...but that is not reality. 

[jboy19]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. If they did option 1, that wouldn't help them solve anything related to option 2. A post-June 1 cut means you don't get the cap space to spend until post-June 1. By that point, any of the FAs on that list are going to be long gone. That's a full three months into FA. 

2. AAV doesn't set the current year cap impact. Josh Sitton's contract, for example, is a $7M AAV, but the first year cap hit is less than $5.5M. All depends on the structure of the contracts. Fairly common league-wide for teams to take lower cap hits in the short term.

3. That's not why they cut Sitton. For starters, it had nothing to do with cap savings... they cut him in September, close to a week before the season started. You're not cutting anybody in September for current year cap savings, because there's nobody to spend that money on unless you're giving an extension to one of your own guys mid-season.

They cut him because they didn't think he as valuable anymore, and they couldn't find a trade partner, since they knew they weren't retaining him next season.

AND... I haven't even gotten to that part where there's other players on their roster that they could cut and create space if needed. 

1. The benefit of a post-June 1 cut is to spread out dead money, theyll still get 6M of immediate relief, then 3M after. So what that basically does is it gives them more room because they can use some of the money they had reserved for their draft class (which typically doesnt sign until June anyway) in Free Agency. 

2. Agree, but not exactly relevant. Packers still have a lot of guys they could bring back. They aren't dumb enough to significantly backload every single contract. Theyll still need a decent amount of room. 

Im sure theres other players the Packers could cut to get room, but Cobb is their third highest cap hit in 2017 and he's barely a part of that offense anymore. Ill admit that a restructure is probably more likely than an actual release but Im allowed to dream right? 

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, jboy19 said:

1. The benefit of a post-June 1 cut is to spread out dead money, theyll still get 6M of immediate relief, then 3M after. So what that basically does is it gives them more room because they can use some of the money they had reserved for their draft class (which typically doesnt sign until June anyway) in Free Agency. 

2. Agree, but not exactly relevant. Packers still have a lot of guys they could bring back. They aren't dumb enough to significantly backload every single contract. Theyll still need a decent amount of room. 

Im sure theres other players the Packers could cut to get room, but Cobb is their third highest cap hit in 2017 and he's barely a part of that offense anymore. Ill admit that a restructure is probably more likely than an actual release but Im allowed to dream right? 

1. That's a huge gamble though, because it implies that the team already knows they want to move on a from a player and will spend that money before they get it. 

What happens when somebody like a Jordy Nelson (this has already happened basically) or a Davante Adams gets a significant injury in April/May? Is Cobb now a cut candidate? Not likely. He's more valuable than ever, and now the team already spent the cap space that he costs. Ooops...

2. They don't have to significantly backload every contract... but there's very few contracts that are front loaded, and at the very least, they can shave $1-2M off just about any deal they do in the first year just via the structure. Like any team, most contracts come with signing bonuses with smaller base salaries in the first year, since no team wants to have a large cash impact in the first year. They are a business after all. 

3. He's barely a part of the offense NOW. That doesn't mean he won't be moving forward. 

[RavensDieHard21]

9 hours ago, VermontRaven said:

I agree.  Especially with the increase in gap, I think we need to make a competitive offer to both of these guys.  Hopefully, we will not be outbid on BOTH and will at least be able to retain one of them. 

If we had to choose between the 2, I think I would prefer to retain Wagner.  I think Lewis could be a very good guard for us, plus he is an acceptable backup swing tackle. Then, Yanda (hopefully fully recovered) goes back to RG and we are only looking for one starter, Center, and a quality backup or 2.  We really don't have a ton of money invested in our OL and we have Stanley and Lewis on the cheap for a few years....by the time they are ready for their big pay day, Yanda will probably (sadly) be gone. 

I absolutely love Williams and between him and Pierce (and Jernigan, Guy), we have an amazing run defense.  That being said, I think we are much better at finding quality interior Dlinemen (see Pierce) and I think we could "replace" Williams easier than Wagner.  Also, I really hope we can keep Guy as well.  I think he is a majorly underrated part of our defense (hopefully the rest of the league underrates him as well so we will be able to afford him)

 

 

I no doubt agree with the Wagner statement. If we keep him, Stanley continues to improve, Yanda remains at al-pro level and we add a beast LG or C in the first or second and we will be very solid. What Lewis will grow into is the question though. He is a big boy and looks solid in pass protection, but under our OC it is hard to tell if he is as effective a run blocker. We need an identity and a fierce o line could do wonders. 

[JO_75]

Thought I put this here..... Jaguars GM Dave Caldwell says there are no untouchables on the roster. Hmmm.... Give up a 4th & 5th for Hurns or Robinson?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/19/jaguars-g-m-no-untouchables-on-the-roster-including-bortles/

[rmw10]

6 minutes ago, JO_75 said:

Thought I put this here..... Jaguars GM Dave Caldwell says there are no untouchables on the roster. Hmmm.... Give up a 4th & 5th for Hurns or Robinson?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/19/jaguars-g-m-no-untouchables-on-the-roster-including-bortles/

No one is untouchable doesn't mean they're just going to be giving players away for peanuts.

[Steve0x]

I like Ravens to get Reggie Bush from Buffalo.  

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, JO_75 said:

Thought I put this here..... Jaguars GM Dave Caldwell says there are no untouchables on the roster. Hmmm.... Give up a 4th & 5th for Hurns or Robinson?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/19/jaguars-g-m-no-untouchables-on-the-roster-including-bortles/

How does that benefit the Jags?

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

3 hours ago, Steve0x said:

I like Ravens to get Reggie Bush from Buffalo.  

I promised @allblackraven That I wouldn't so I'm just gonna say this....

 

No... Just no

[Deflated Football]

2 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I promised @allblackraven That I wouldn't so I'm just gonna say this....

 

No... Just no

I couldn't tell if he was being serious or not 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

So my plan to trade a 7th rounder for Myles Jack wouldn't work then?

Damnit Jaguars. You can't even be an idiotic team correctly. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

1 minute ago, Deflated Football said:

I couldn't tell if he was being serious or not 

He is. Honestly at this point Buck Allen as the third RB brings more ot the table. Bush is done. 

Edited December 20, 2016 by LosT_in_TranSlatioN

[Deflated Football]

1 minute ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

He is. Honestly at this point Buck Allen as the third RB brings more ot the table. Bush is done. 

I mean, how could someone be serious about that?

[allblackraven]

42 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I promised @allblackraven That I wouldn't so I'm just gonna say this....

 

No... Just no

In Steve0x case, you are allowed. Definitely. 

[usmccharles]

53 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

I mean, how could someone be serious about that?

Is this your first time reading his posts?

We definitely wont be signing any "big" time FA guys, but most likely we will wait for the veteran cuts.  I still like Garcon as a target, anyone else have some guys they think might get cut? 

Maclin- Hes making a lot of money and contributing basically nothing. Making 10mill next year

Cruz - Due a decent amount of money because of bonuses. 

Vjax looks done in Tampa, his health seems to be an issue. 

Defense- i havent followed these guys, any input?

Trumaine Johnson- ?

Stephen Gilmore- ?

Thats all i have

Edited December 20, 2016 by usmccharles

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

17 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

In Steve0x case, you are allowed. Definitely. 

Really? Okay.

I'm glad some of the fans don't run the team.

[RavensFanMania]

4 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I promised @allblackraven That I wouldn't so I'm just gonna say this....

 

No... Just no

Say it ain't so, Lost.

[RavensFanMania]

3 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Really? Okay.

I'm glad some of the fans don't run the team.

That's more like it.