kjbmore

Free Agency 2017 (Players from Other Teams We Should Consider)

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Is it too early to start a free agency thread for 2017?

was reading the cowboys post game good bad ugly thread - talk of a bit of cap space rolling around if we clean house - $20 mil or so

i think we can plug a few with our early draft picks - cb, rush, centre - but its still going to leave a few holes

one area i hope we spend some money because im sick of our anemic offense, cant put points on the board, have struggled in the redzone since our superbowl win and surely we cant wait any longer or waste any more of flaccos career - if steve smith retires, we dont know what we have in perriman, if we draft somebody, its going to leave a need at another position or  trying to throw a lower pick at that area of concern,  wouldnt mind throwing some cash at the receiver position - i think its time we gave joe a nice big target again - im thinking terrelle pryor - with wallace and perriman could be a nice group - like pryor hes got some fire about him

anyway lot of season still to be played but whatever can always dream - who would you like to see on the ravens sideline

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6 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Is it too early to start a free agency thread for 2017?

YES! WAAAAAAY too early!  We are leading our division! In my opinion, we shouldn't be talking about next season until this season is over or we are elimated from playoffs.

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2 minutes ago, VermontRaven said:

YES! WAAAAAAY too early!  We are leading our division! In my opinion, we shouldn't be talking about next season until this season is over or we are elimated from playoffs.

just the talk of all that cap space had me dreaming

talk and sums saying we could possibly have 20 mil floating around, when was the last time we were in that position - if harbaugh makes it through this season, id be campaigning hard to bring in some big free agent pieces - not the usual on the cheap kind of signings we're used to

tom coughlin and the giants spring to mind - spend up big after your head coach gets shown the door, or maybe theres more than meets the eye going on in the background - are these harbaughs guys or ozzies

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WR is an underrated position of need. What do you have outside of Mike Wallace? Unless Breshad shows you something in the 2nd half of the season(Which he surely can) than you're a huge question mark there. In a year where the offense is struggling, you have to pay attention to WR. I personally believe that Alshon Jeffery certainly is an option here. It's likely he goes the route of a 1YR deal and he would like to play with a QB who can throw. The pitch being what Mike Wallace has done here, I'm sure he would heavily consider us. We won't even have to break the bank for him considering its a one year deal and the market for him might not be as big as it could have been. Wallace-Jeffery-Perriman sounds great. 

I personally think the two biggest positions we'll attack however in FA will be OLB and CB. OLB because I think what we need here is not a young stud but rather someone who can just rush the passer. We already have 3 young guys in Za'Darius-Judon-Correa, I think what we need is a pass rusher point blank. 

In a CB I think we desire someone who can play on the outside. I got a lot of love for Tavon Young because he does play bigger than his size but his favorable match-ups are against smaller WRs. I think you go for an outside CB and draft one in the 1st/2nd. 

I expect us to address Center via the draft. We could keep Wagner which would allow us to keep Alex Lewis at LG since we won't have to pay a lot to keep him. Brandon Williams and Timmy Jernigan(FA 2018) will be priorities not to mention Zack Orr who will be a FA in 2018 so maybe the team lets go of Wagner. At the moment I think they will keep him given that it won't be expensive. 

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Just get proven playmakers man. Stop reaching into the bargain bin. Add speed to both sides of the ball. I'm jealous of the Giants with Odell, Steve Shep and Cruz. I'm jealous of the Steelers with AB, Bell and Bryant. Why can't we have that? Pay top dollar to Alshon and Pryor. Everyone says no because we have other people on the team to pay, but those players are on their way to another mediocre season. Anytime Aiken is the third option, we have a problem. AND PLEASE MAKE MAXX THE STARTER NEXT SEASON. 

Edited by Deflated Football
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Before this gets to far of that 20 mil we have at the moment 14.2 mil clear for next year About 7 is for your draft class the 2.7 is what we have for the rest of this year that we might carry over but the bigger issue we had over 10 mil when the season started and all the additional signings due to injury has wiped to what we did carry over. Basically we won't have a ton of money and any pass rusher, CB, or WR will eat up a significnt amount of our cap without Resigning any of our own, (B. Will, Wagner, Juice, Levine, Aiken, Guy, Mallett, ( Orr, and West, who are restricted,  and if he doesn't retire, please don't SSS. Those are just the key guys. I can see us letting Wagner go who knows about Mallet but I want the rest of those guys back. 

Edited by Wildabeast88
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12 minutes ago, Wildabeast88 said:

Before this gets to far of that 20 mil we have at the moment 14.2 mil clear for next year About 7 is for your draft class the 2.7 is what we have for the rest of this year that we might carry over but the bigger issue we had over 10 mil when the season started and all the additional signings due to injury has wiped to what we did carry over. Basically we won't have a ton of money and any pass rusher, CB, or WR will eat up a significnt amount of our cap without Resigning any of our own, (B. Will, 

Well we will also be cutting a significant number of players. Cutting 4-5 non-value-added players picks up another $10M in space, and that's excluding some of the other possible cuts we could make that save significant space (Dumervil, Webb, Pitta, etc.).

No, we won't be big spenders in FA. We never do, and there's no reason to alter that going forward. Consistently good teams rarely do that.

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We are no longer consistently good - we are consistently mediocre. 

Results are there for all to see.

Might be time to change it up.

Be interested to know what Harbaughs thinking on the matter is - we know Ozzies mantras, philosophies and style - but as a coach whose seat is seemingly growing warmer with every loss - does Harbaugh want the team to be a more active player in high end FA.

 

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9 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

We are no longer consistently good - we are consistently mediocre. 

Results are there for all to see.

Might be time to change it up.

Be interested to know what Harbaughs thinking on the matter is - we know Ozzies mantras, philosophies and style - but as a coach whose seat is seemingly growing warmer with every loss - does Harbaugh want the team to be a more active player in high end FA.

 

My guess would be that John is smart enough to know that being an active player in high end FA doesn't seem to actually translate into wins on the football field very often.

What's not working has a lot more to do with execution of the plan than the plan itself.

Edited by rmcjacket23
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18 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

We are no longer consistently good - we are consistently mediocre. 

Results are there for all to see.

Might be time to change it up.

Be interested to know what Harbaughs thinking on the matter is - we know Ozzies mantras, philosophies and style - but as a coach whose seat is seemingly growing warmer with every loss - does Harbaugh want the team to be a more active player in high end FA.

 

What teams that spend big in free agency turn things around quickly? It's a slow process that takes patience.   We just need to get production from our draft picks,  I think next year we will be much better.  

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3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

My guess would be that John is smart enough to know that being an active player in high end FA doesn't seem to actually translate into wins on the football field very often.

What's not working has a lot more to do with execution of the plan than the plan itself.

or lack of talent - jimmy doesnt play - the secondary gets torched by odell and then dez

 we had guys where they needed to be andthey couldnt stop them, thats not execution that horses - we dont have them, im pretty sure the guys trying to get to the qb are following pees game plan - its not happening, i think thats a talent thing again - just dont have the horses

do we roll our dice and hope to bring them in the draft when were whiffing on all our early picks or do we just pony up and bring them in FA, clear out all the dead wood and let kids learn behind some proven talent

Edited by kjbmore
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1 minute ago, kjbmore said:

or lack of talent - jimmy doesnt play - the secondary gets torched by odell and then dez

 we had guys where they needed to be andthey couldnt stop them, thats not execution that horses - we dont have them, im pretty sure the guys trying to get to the qb are following pees game plan - its not happening, i think that a talent think again - just dont have the horses

do we roll our dice and hope to bring them in the draft when were whiffing on all our early picks or do we just pony up and bring them in FA, clear out all the dead wood and let kids learn behind some proven talent

Right... lack of talent from not executing the talent portion of the draft.

Buying high priced FAs doesn't equate to buying talent... it just equates to buying high priced FAs. Countless examples of high priced FAs who sign with teams and are terrible. They get bunched, they get cut, etc. 

Having a high priced FA acquisition who doesn't play well is literally the worst case scenario for any team. At least if a draft pick isn't performing well, he isn't getting paid that much.

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27 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

or lack of talent - jimmy doesnt play - the secondary gets torched by odell and then dez

 we had guys where they needed to be andthey couldnt stop them, thats not execution that horses - we dont have them, im pretty sure the guys trying to get to the qb are following pees game plan - its not happening, i think that a talent think again - just dont have the horses

do we roll our dice and hope to bring them in the draft when were whiffing on all our early picks or do we just pony up and bring them in FA, clear out all the dead wood and let kids learn behind some proven talent

So would it be a good idea to pend on a high priced CB like Revis who's play has declined and will probably get cut. The newer is no any good CB will not be a FA. Also there is. Reason there are 1's ad 2's but also game planning, preparation, discipline and strategy are included. How did we beat the Steelers with Mallett, Allen, and Aiken, and no Suggs, because Tomlin was arrogant and ill prepared. We are extremely undisciplined and fail to make adjustments that is our problem.

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Regarding those folks who want us to address Center in FA, I don't really see any UFAs who would be an upgrade over Zuttah (maybe Wisinewski) and I don't see any impending cap casualties either. 

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2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Right... lack of talent from not executing the talent portion of the draft.

Buying high priced FAs doesn't equate to buying talent... it just equates to buying high priced FAs. Countless examples of high priced FAs who sign with teams and are terrible. They get bunched, they get cut, etc. 

Having a high priced FA acquisition who doesn't play well is literally the worst case scenario for any team. At least if a draft pick isn't performing well, he isn't getting paid that much.

everybody always so pessimistic about high priced free agents

what about denver - did they win a superbowl after they brought in ward, ware, talib, sanders,  what about the pats - pretty sure they won 1 the year they brought in revis?? is that money well spent or were they just throwing cash around for the sake of it, pretty sure the panthers would stump up the cash for norman if they had their time over

right now im pessimistic about our chances of drafting and developing enough talent to truly elevate this team beyond mediocre, our first 3 picks from the previous year arent making any contribution perriman, maxx, davis - MIA, this year one out of 3 giving us some help - so with that track record - im not holding my breathe to just start hitting it out of the park and get 3 or 4 starters in this next draft - where i actually need them - its nice we hit on some guys - a slot corner, dlineman, , tackle, maybe a half decent pass rusher - we havent added anything i would consider a difference maker from our last 2 drafts

im also pessimistic about signing castoffs,cheap guys, old guys and hoping they elevate their play and play above their salary ie - watson,hester, arrington, powers, lewis??

so with that in mind - id be open to seeing what ozzie could do with a bit of cash

can always dream, pretty much the point of the thread

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35 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

everybody always so pessimistic about high priced free agents

what about denver - did they win a superbowl after they brought in ward, ware, talib, sanders,  what about the pats - pretty sure they won 1 the year they brought in revis?? is that money well spent or were they just throwing cash around for the sake of it, pretty sure the panthers would stump up the cash for norman if they had their time over

right now im pessimistic about our chances of drafting and developing enough talent to truly elevate this team beyond mediocre, our first 3 picks from the previous year arent making any contribution perriman, maxx, davis - MIA, this year one out of 3 giving us some help - so with that track record - im not holding my breathe to just start hitting it out of the park and get 3 or 4 starters in this next draft - where i actually need them - its nice we hit on some guys - a slot corner, dlineman, , tackle, maybe a half decent pass rusher - we havent added anything i would consider a difference maker from our last 2 drafts

im also pessimistic about signing castoffs,cheap guys, old guys and hoping they elevate their play and play above their salary ie - watson,hester, arrington, powers, lewis??

so with that in mind - id be open to seeing what ozzie could do with a bit of cash

can always dream, pretty much the point of the thread

Lot of misconceptions in there though...

Lets look at the Broncos:

1. None of the four guys you listed were on the Broncos first SB loss team. The Broncos made the SB in 2013, and all four of the players you listed joined the team in 2014.

In terms of actual deals, Ward is playing for about $5.5M on average, which is a Weddle-type deal, and Sanders was playing for about the same amount until 2016. Ware and Talib were the only real "pricey" FAs they spent money on. 

2. The backbone of the Broncos defense was a cheap, dominant defensive line, an elite pass rusher playing under a rookie contract, and an elite UDFA at corner.

Look at the cap hits from last season:

Von Miller: $9.7M

Chris Harris: $3M

Sylvester Williams: $2.0M

Malik Jackson: $1.6M

Danny Trevatahn: $1.6M

Derek Wolfe: $1.4M

And as far as the Patriots:

They're about the prime example of my point. They sign Revis to a ONE YEAR contract for $12M, win a SB, and dump him and Browner in a single offseason. And practically nothing changed.

They trade away Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins, arguably the two best defensive players on the team, just so they don't have to pay them top tier money. Doesn't seem to matter.

Who was the last big time FA that they signed off the street that they committed high, long term money to? Paying Revis $12M for one year and then letting him walk to a division rival isn't an example of being a big FA spender. Its the polar opposite.

Edited by rmcjacket23
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3 hours ago, Maryland said:

Regarding those folks who want us to address Center in FA, I don't really see any UFAs who would be an upgrade over Zuttah (maybe Wisinewski) and I don't see any impending cap casualties either. 

I got negged for saying Zuttah will probably be our starting C next year, but the FA class is truly depressing.

Joe Hawley
Cody Wallace
John Sullivan (or whatever's left of him)
AQ Shipley
Michael Person
Brian Schwenke
JC Tretter

That's not a list of people we could go after - that's the entire class. Assuming the Packers do what the Packers do every year and pay Tretter before he hits FA, that makes Shipley a genuine top five option. And we're not the only ones struggling at C so there won't be a lack of competition for those signatures.

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Just now, Inqui said:

I got negged for saying Zuttah will probably be our starting C next year, but the FA class is truly depressing.

Joe Hawley
Cody Wallace
John Sullivan (or whatever's left of him)
AQ Shipley
Michael Person
Brian Schwenke
JC Tretter

That's not a list of people we could go after - that's the entire class. Assuming the Packers do what the Packers do every year and pay Tretter before he hits FA, that makes Shipley a genuine top five option. And we're not the only ones struggling at C so there won't be a lack of competition for those signatures.

Most likely would be draft pick coupled with some sort of veteran FA competition.

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8 minutes ago, Inqui said:

I got negged for saying Zuttah will probably be our starting C next year, but the FA class is truly depressing.

Joe Hawley
Cody Wallace
John Sullivan (or whatever's left of him)
AQ Shipley
Michael Person
Brian Schwenke
JC Tretter

That's not a list of people we could go after - that's the entire class. Assuming the Packers do what the Packers do every year and pay Tretter before he hits FA, that makes Shipley a genuine top five option. And we're not the only ones struggling at C so there won't be a lack of competition for those signatures.

Looked ahead too and saw nothing real appealing.  Would honestly rather just draft OL, but we still have some areas that need to be addressed on both sides.

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11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Lot of misconceptions in there though...

Lets look at the Broncos:

1. None of the four guys you listed were on the Broncos first SB loss team. The Broncos made the SB in 2013, and all four of the players you listed joined the team in 2014.

In terms of actual deals, Ward is playing for about $5.5M on average, which is a Weddle-type deal, and Sanders was playing for about the same amount until 2016. Ware and Talib were the only real "pricey" FAs they spent money on. 

2. The backbone of the Broncos defense was a cheap, dominant defensive line, an elite pass rusher playing under a rookie contract, and an elite UDFA at corner.

Look at the cap hits from last season:

Von Miller: $9.7M

Chris Harris: $3M

Sylvester Williams: $2.0M

Malik Jackson: $1.6M

Danny Trevatahn: $1.6M

Derek Wolfe: $1.4M

And as far as the Patriots:

They're about the prime example of my point. They sign Revis to a ONE YEAR contract for $12M, win a SB, and dump him and Browner in a single offseason. And practically nothing changed.

They trade away Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins, arguably the two best defensive players on the team, just so they don't have to pay them top tier money. Doesn't seem to matter.

Who was the last big time FA that they signed off the street that they committed high, long term money to? Paying Revis $12M for one year and then letting him walk to a division rival isn't an example of being a big FA spender. Its the polar opposite.

Exactly - they threw some cash at a pass rusher and a corner - oh hang on that sounds like a team I know.... 

whatever bud, it's all hypotheticals

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Just now, redrum52 said:

Looked ahead too and saw nothing real appealing.  Would honestly rather just draft OL, but we still have some areas that need to be addressed on both sides.

Yeah, when I say I expect Zuttah to stick around I don't say that because I love the guy's work (far from it) - it's because the other options actually look worse.

I agree that the draft is probably our best bet, but even then the options don't look too overwhelming (unlike WR, RB and OLB, which are far more talented groups) and as you say we have so many other needs (including two of those positions I mentioned where the class looks a lot better) that there's no guarantee that a C is the BPA at all.

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Just now, kjbmore said:

Exactly - they threw some cash at a pass rusher and a corner - oh hang on that sounds like a team I know.... 

whatever bud, it's all hypotheticals

So throwing some money at pass rusher and a corner (not even top tier money at that) qualifies as being "big spenders in FA"? 

That's not even hypothetical. That's just not accurate.

As is typical, when fans evaluate teams, they only look at what they want to see and not what's actually happening. 

When the entire starting DL, 75% of the linebacking core, and the best corner on the team are playing for well below market value on mostly rookie contracts AND all playing great, that's kind of the entire goal of building a franchise. 

Not a sustainable model, but the Broncos and Seahawks are textbook examples of what 1-2 great drafts can lead to.

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2 minutes ago, Inqui said:

Yeah, when I say I expect Zuttah to stick around I don't say that because I love the guy's work (far from it) - it's because the other options actually look worse.

I agree that the draft is probably our best bet, but even then the options don't look too overwhelming (unlike WR, RB and OLB, which are far more talented groups) and as you say we have so many other needs (including two of those positions I mentioned where the class looks a lot better) that there's no guarantee that a C is the BPA at all.

I wouldn't suspect the C position would be addressed in round 1. Plenty of really good Center league-wide who were day 2 or even day 3 picks, and that's the route I think we go.

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6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

So throwing some money at pass rusher and a corner (not even top tier money at that) qualifies as being "big spenders in FA"? 

That's not even hypothetical. That's just not accurate.

As is typical, when fans evaluate teams, they only look at what they want to see and not what's actually happening. 

When the entire starting DL, 75% of the linebacking core, and the best corner on the team are playing for well below market value on mostly rookie contracts AND all playing great, that's kind of the entire goal of building a franchise. 

Not a sustainable model, but the Broncos and Seahawks are textbook examples of what 1-2 great drafts can lead to.

Talking about the thread is hypothetical 

would I like to see the Ravens spend 10 mil on season on a CB or a pass rusher, maybe whatever who cares

your right, everything you said is right and makes complete sense - no way should we even entertain the thought of throwing some cash around - what was I thinking

you know how to suck the fun out of a thread

 

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3 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Talking about the thread is hypothetical 

would I like to see the Ravens spend 10 mil on season on a CB or a pass rusher, maybe whatever who cares

your right, everything you said is right and makes complete sense - no way should we even entertain the thought of throwing some cash around - what was I thinking

you know how to suck the fun out of a thread

 

1. I highly doubt anybody came in here saying "o wow this is a super fun thread where we can talk about all the Madden-like moves we can't make in real life". If that was the goal of the thread, it never got there.

2. The idea of throwing cash around would be to win football games. That's kind of the whole purpose of spending money. Its not to spend money just for the sake of spending money to make fans happy.

And its certainly not to just say "well gosh guys we're not very good at drafting anymore, maybe we should just start buying high quality players and hoping that pans out, even that it pretty much never has in the past for barely any team".

I guess that's what some people would consider to be "fun". Certainly not my brand of "fun". 

Winning games is fun. No interest in winning March.

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Well the thread probably never going to go anywhere cos half of it is you bashing anything anybody says - but you're right , you're right about everything - always, let's not even entertain hypotheticals

again bud it's sport, fun who cares if I say I'd like to see terrelle Pryor on my team or eric berry next to weddle 

you must be the life of the party, crack a cold one and chill out

Edited by kjbmore
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2 hours ago, Inqui said:

I got negged for saying Zuttah will probably be our starting C next year, but the FA class is truly depressing.

Joe Hawley
Cody Wallace
John Sullivan (or whatever's left of him)
AQ Shipley
Michael Person
Brian Schwenke
JC Tretter

That's not a list of people we could go after - that's the entire class. Assuming the Packers do what the Packers do every year and pay Tretter before he hits FA, that makes Shipley a genuine top five option. And we're not the only ones struggling at C so there won't be a lack of competition for those signatures.

The Packers have Corey Linsley though, and he was their starter the last couple seasons. Maybe they just roll with him next season?

I'm not sure if Tretter is good or not. I no longer buy PFF, and I don't exactly notice guys play Center unless they're terrible or truly spectacular lol.

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