Candidates to be the next OC

[JoeyFlex5]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Mariota was third in carries well behind Thomas and Barner. He didn't even really run that often.

Kelly himself said he wants a quarterback who is capable of running, not a running back who is capable of throwing. He doesn't want a Tim Tebow offense.

Mariota was much more prolific as a passer than given credit for. I was personally wrong on how the up tempo spread offense would effect his transition to the NFL, but that's a discussion for another day.

i think something is being misunderstood here lol... 

i know that mariota wasnt a run first qb, he was a legit qb who had immense running talent. im talking about the perception of chip kelly and his offense, many people have the misconception that chip basically runs a pistol offense. you and i know thats not true, but many others dont, and they really do think kaepernick was some great fit for it. i mean sure, on the occasions where he calls a read option he could break off a run here and there, but that doesnt make him a good fit, which is why blaine gabbert(lol) won the starting job over him.

[BmoreBird22]

6 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i think something is being misunderstood here lol... 

i know that mariota wasnt a run first qb, he was a legit qb who had immense running talent. im talking about the perception of chip kelly and his offense, many people have the misconception that chip basically runs a pistol offense. you and i know thats not true, but many others dont, and they really do think kaepernick was some great fit for it. i mean sure, on the occasions where he calls a read option he could break off a run here and there, but that doesnt make him a good fit, which is why blaine gabbert(lol) won the starting job over him.

Now we're on the same page.

I had long said that Kaep would be a horrible fit and that if Chip could have his choice, he'd take Andrew Luck (I mean, most would, but you know what I mean...).

I just think if Kelly were to come here, the running game would take off again.

I actually think Joe could have a pretty good year with Kelly.

Edited December 4, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[JO_75]

How about Cowboys RB Coach Gary Brown? Some history about DeMarco Murray's stats before and with Brown. In 2011 Murray ran for 897 yards before declining and rushing for 663 yards in 2012. Brown became the Cowboys RB Coach in 2013 and Murray had his first 1,000 yard season rushing for 1,121 yards and followed up with 1,845 yards in 2014. 

Currently, Zeke has 1,285 Yards with 12 TDs and already broke the Cowboys record for rushing yards by a rookie running back. It would get us back to the ground and pound offense, and if we focused on the OL could really replicate what Dallas has done. Thoughts?

[FlocksGottaFeed]

28 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Anyway...

The reps-thing when his offense averaged almost 25% more reps than any in league is a mute point. The 'complexity-thing' is also a mute point (Never said it was complex at all).

So what you're saying is "If we decide to hire an OC next season because Chip gets fired and doesn't accept more money and job security at Oregon who is begging him to return and Marty doesn't pan-out then...Chip would be a great fit with our current returning team?"

[JoeyFlex5]

3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Now we're on the same page.

I had long said that Kaep would be a horrible fit and that if Chip could have his choice, he'd take Andrew Luck (I mean, most would, but you know what I mean...).

I just think if Kelly were to come here, the running game would take off again.

I actually think Joe could have a pretty good year with Kelly.

yeah ive had this same discussion quite a few times in real life with simpletons who think chips offense is the same as the 2012 redskins or 2011 broncos lol. 

i actually think nick foles was a great fit, lesean mccoy was probably the best back in the whole league for that offense, i was worried about his mileage but as far as scheme fit he was perfect. 

i dont know about chip for us though, i think once teams get familiar with his system it becomes seriously hindered, its too simple, opposing defenses dont have to do much thinking, in such a tight division i dont want them knowing what we run every other play, although thats been an issue weve always had lol i just dont wanna continue it. 

[BmoreBird22]

5 minutes ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

The reps-thing when his offense averaged almost 25% more reps than any in league is a mute point. The 'complexity-thing' is also a mute point (Never said it was complex at all).

So what you're saying is "If we decide to hire an OC next season because Chip gets fired and doesn't accept more money and job security at Oregon who is begging him to return and Marty doesn't pan-out then...Chip would be a great fit with our current returning team?"

Yes, I do think Chip Kelly would be a good fit in Baltimore, and for almost any offense, really.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

2 minutes ago, JO_75 said:

How about Cowboys RB Coach Gary Brown? Some history about DeMarco Murray's stats before and with Brown. In 2011 Murray ran for 897 yards before declining and rushing for 663 yards in 2012. Brown became the Cowboys RB Coach in 2013 and Murray had his first 1,000 yard season rushing for 1,121 yards and followed up with 1,845 yards in 2014. 

Currently, Zeke has 1,285 Yards with 12 TDs and already broke the Cowboys record for rushing yards by a rookie running back. It would get us back to the ground and pound offense, and if we focused on the OL could really replicate what Dallas has done. Thoughts?

I like the thought of it, but I'm not sure if he'll be an available candidate. He's truly got the successful outcomes and resume to be a OC. That said, I honestly hope Marty keeps progressing so it won't come-down to that. I'm still in Camp Marty.

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

yeah ive had this same discussion quite a few times in real life with simpletons who think chips offense is the same as the 2012 redskins or 2011 broncos lol. 

i actually think nick foles was a great fit, lesean mccoy was probably the best back in the whole league for that offense, i was worried about his mileage but as far as scheme fit he was perfect. 

i dont know about chip for us though, i think once teams get familiar with his system it becomes seriously hindered, its too simple, opposing defenses dont have to do much thinking, in such a tight division i dont want them knowing what we run every other play, although thats been an issue weve always had lol i just dont wanna continue it. 

I don't know. I think if the Ravens could establish the run game the way that Kelly wants to, predictability becomes a moot point because then you're going to be required to win one on one on defense more often than not.

I think the Ravens would have the talent to run the offense and actually think the running game would be vastly improved.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Yes, I do think Chip Kelly would be a good fit in Baltimore, and for almost any offense, really.

ok.

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

ok.

Explain why his offense won't work.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Explain why his offense won't work.

I'm just saying "ok".

I was wrong about Belichick when he coached the Browns and could be wrong about Chip. I never think my opinion is always beyond reproach. You've made some good points. I just see it a little differently. It's hard for me to feel strongly about it either way because honestly I think it would be foolish of him to not take the Oregon offer and choose to be demoted to an OC after being fired twice. Highly unlikely.

He could be a Saban-type legend if he returned. In addition, I'm still Team Marty for now.

[BmoreBird22]

16 minutes ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

I'm just saying "ok".

I was wrong about Belichick when he coached the Browns and could be wrong about Chip. I never think my opinion is always beyond reproach. You've made some good points. I just see it a little differently. It's hard for me to feel strongly about it either way because honestly I think it would be foolish of him to not take the Oregon offer and choose to be demoted to an OC after being fired twice. Highly unlikely.

He could be a Saban-type legend if he returned. In addition, I'm still Team Marty for now.

I don't think he'd be an OC. Really no reason for him to be one because, as you said, he's got Oregon or another NFL team. I think he's made enough strides in SF that they'll give him more time.

I just really like his offenses and how he pretty much has an answer for any defensive front.

I think if he hadn't been given full control over the Eagles (seriously, why do that with a first time HC?), we'd be talking about how Kelly is one of the bright offensive minds in football.

Edited December 4, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, RaineV1 said:

I think an altered version of it can work very well. He just needs to know when to slow down a bit during the second half to sit on a lead and not tire out his defense.

But that's not an issue with the offense. That's a Kelly issue. 

its a philosophy of his that TOP doesn't really matter - it's number of plays run. And that speed is an advantage at all times bc it wears the opponent down and doesn't let them adjust or prepare. 

What he fails to realize is... the more you have the ball the more opportunity you have to run plays... so the two are very much related. If I double you TOP and runs plays half as fast we end up with an equal # of plays. 

Also if you don't get first downs consistently the only D you wear out is your own. 

 

And  that's why I said it's not an issue with his offense. It's a situational issue. Understanding when to slow down to kill a game. Or when to take your time and make sure you at least get a couple first downs to let your D rest a little. 

So I think under a strong HC who could pull the reins in a little and guide with input on the situational stuff he could be very successful. 

Most people don't realize it's a very run heavy offense. Everything is predicated off the run. And a QB that can move is preferred bc of how simple the offense is in terms of formations and number of plays. The complexity comes from on every look he wants the D to have to defend the RB run, QB run, and the pass. 

Not having to worry about option B limits it somewhat, though he was still able to be prolific with Foles and successful with Bradford and Sanchez. 

[RaineV1]

28 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

So I think under a strong HC who could pull the reins in a little and guide with input on the situational stuff he could be very successful.

I definitely agree. I've believed for awhile now that Kelly would be much better as an OC than he is as an HC.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

As an OC. I don't mind Chip Kelly.

 

As a HC on the NFL level.. keep him as far away from here as humanly possible. Him making personell decisions infuriates me. 

Seriously, having him and Baalke making those decisions will set the niners back a long time 

[BmoreBird22]

7 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

But that's not an issue with the offense. That's a Kelly issue. 

its a philosophy of his that TOP doesn't really matter - it's number of plays run. And that speed is an advantage at all times bc it wears the opponent down and doesn't let them adjust or prepare. 

What he fails to realize is... the more you have the ball the more opportunity you have to run plays... so the two are very much related. If I double you TOP and runs plays half as fast we end up with an equal # of plays. 

Also if you don't get first downs consistently the only D you wear out is your own. 

This is like half true.

Kelly has three speeds as a coach dating back to Oregon.

Red light: Walk to the line and take your time receiving the call from the sideline. 

Yellow light: Walk up to the line, but the quarterback will make the calls and audibles without looking to the sideline.

Green light: What we've all come to know at Oregon.

His offenses didn't involve huddling at Oregon, but he does have an understanding of at least slowing down. It isn't like he's having players sprint to the LoS on every single play, and honestly, it really depends on what the defense shows.

If the defense wants to make subs, he's going to have them sprint up. If the defense is going to stay in the same package, he's going to take his time and examine the defense to get in the best possible call.

With that said, he has been last in TOP since he's been in the NFL, likely due to his incredibly fast starts. He ALWAYS comes out of the gate firing.

[RaineV1]

Okay, I won't sing Marty's praises too much after beating a mediocre and injured defense, but I'll give him some credit. He let Joe run an up tempo offense to start the game, and relentlessly went after the weakness of the Dolphins defense with all those passes over the middle. I'd still switch if someone better comes along (like someone from the Chargers if they purge), but if Marty can keep doing this then the Ravens won't have to panic hire someone else.

[Bltravens]

Seems like its been awhile where a Ravens OC was so relentless on a weakness they noticed while formulating a plan.  I liked it.

[Ravensfan23]

@PurpleCity5 What were your thoughts on the offense today? If it looked this way moving forward would you like Marty to stay. Also do you think it's sustainable or do you think it was more because they just found a weakness with the Dolphins LBs?

Personally I thought this was the way the Offense would look all along once guys got healthy and everything was firing on all cylinders. I know you don't really have issue with Marty, you just want the best possible guy, but what did you think?

[Tank 92]

well, well, well......Pretty masterful game plan from Marty today. Completely threw the fish for a loop.

[RavensFanMania]

I'd like to see how the year finishes, but I'd love to be able to continue with Marty if the offense continues to play well for the rest of the season, regardless of if we make the playoffs or not.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

12 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

This is like half true.

Kelly has three speeds as a coach dating back to Oregon.

Red light: Walk to the line and take your time receiving the call from the sideline. 

Yellow light: Walk up to the line, but the quarterback will make the calls and audibles without looking to the sideline.

Green light: What we've all come to know at Oregon.

His offenses didn't involve huddling at Oregon, but he does have an understanding of at least slowing down. It isn't like he's having players sprint to the LoS on every single play, and honestly, it really depends on what the defense shows.

If the defense wants to make subs, he's going to have them sprint up. If the defense is going to stay in the same package, he's going to take his time and examine the defense to get in the best possible call.

With that said, he has been last in TOP since he's been in the NFL, likely due to his incredibly fast starts. He ALWAYS comes out of the gate firing.

I live in philly and listened to every post game press conference in his 3 years. 

His red light if you want to call it that is most teams hurry up. He signals plays in with picture boards to decrease the time communication takes. 

They practice at an incredibly fast tempo. He's changed a little in SF but in philly it was go all the time. They would constantly go 3 and out and only give the D like 30 seconds of down time. 

The incredibly low TOP isn't just from starting games fast. They go. And yes, fairly frequently the players are sprinting to the line of scrimmage. They practice being able to run a play every "x" seconds. I forget exactly what x is but it's incredibly fast. 

And it was frequently a point of contention that they would lose close games bc late with a lead Chip still had em running fast. Trying to run as many plays as possible because of some analytics that say if you run "x" number of plays you win more often than not. 

But diving deeper the trend has more to do with play differential than just raw plays run. 

I do think Chip learned a lot from his time in Philly. He was near god status in Oregon and came out blazing in philly. But he bit off far too much and when the league caught up a bit he refused to adjust.  Looks like that firing has humbled him some. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

13 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

This is like half true.

Kelly has three speeds as a coach dating back to Oregon.

Red light: Walk to the line and take your time receiving the call from the sideline. 

Yellow light: Walk up to the line, but the quarterback will make the calls and audibles without looking to the sideline.

Green light: What we've all come to know at Oregon.

His offenses didn't involve huddling at Oregon, but he does have an understanding of at least slowing down. It isn't like he's having players sprint to the LoS on every single play, and honestly, it really depends on what the defense shows.

If the defense wants to make subs, he's going to have them sprint up. If the defense is going to stay in the same package, he's going to take his time and examine the defense to get in the best possible call.

With that said, he has been last in TOP since he's been in the NFL, likely due to his incredibly fast starts. He ALWAYS comes out of the gate firing.

2014 and 2015 philly ranked 1st and 2nd in offensive plays run but last in TOP.

That doesn't happen unless you're running plays WAY faster than anyone else. You rattled off more plays than anyone, and did so while having the ball less than any other team. 

Regardless of the color light, it's faster than anyone else goes. 

[BmoreBird22]

43 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I live in philly and listened to every post game press conference in his 3 years. 

His red light if you want to call it that is most teams hurry up. He signals plays in with picture boards to decrease the time communication takes. 

They practice at an incredibly fast tempo. He's changed a little in SF but in philly it was go all the time. They would constantly go 3 and out and only give the D like 30 seconds of down time. 

The incredibly low TOP isn't just from starting games fast. They go. And yes, fairly frequently the players are sprinting to the line of scrimmage. They practice being able to run a play every "x" seconds. I forget exactly what x is but it's incredibly fast. 

And it was frequently a point of contention that they would lose close games bc late with a lead Chip still had em running fast. Trying to run as many plays as possible because of some analytics that say if you run "x" number of plays you win more often than not. 

But diving deeper the trend has more to do with play differential than just raw plays run. 

I do think Chip learned a lot from his time in Philly. He was near god status in Oregon and came out blazing in philly. But he bit off far too much and when the league caught up a bit he refused to adjust.  Looks like that firing has humbled him some. 

 

32 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

2014 and 2015 philly ranked 1st and 2nd in offensive plays run but last in TOP.

That doesn't happen unless you're running plays WAY faster than anyone else. You rattled off more plays than anyone, and did so while having the ball less than any other team. 

Regardless of the color light, it's faster than anyone else goes. 

I'm not saying that they don't go fast on all plays. You'll rarely see them huddle up and take 40 seconds on a play.

But this idea that they're sprinting to the line on every single play is a false narrative. He's pretty much always in a no huddle, but if the tempo and situation dictates, he'll walk his players up and have the quarterback take his time to diagnose the defense and call a play of his own based on the defensive look.

I will fully acknowledge he doesn't huddle much, but it isn't that they sprint to the line on every single play and try to get the ball off in .5 seconds every single play.

He actually ran the no huddle about 70% of the time, according to NFL.com.

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[PurpleCity5]

9 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

@PurpleCity5 What were your thoughts on the offense today? If it looked this way moving forward would you like Marty to stay. Also do you think it's sustainable or do you think it was more because they just found a weakness with the Dolphins LBs?

Personally I thought this was the way the Offense would look all along once guys got healthy and everything was firing on all cylinders. I know you don't really have issue with Marty, you just want the best possible guy, but what did you think?

Would definitely be fine with Marty staying if the offense could sustain it like this. One thing is though is that you still have to put it together. I don't want to see one break out game from the offense and declare Marty as our guy. I personally want to see progress and see if we can sustain this, if so then I'm definitely on board with Marty.  

It's for sure sustainable because of the talent on this team. I've said it for most of this year that this is Joe Flacco's two best receiving options he's ever had. Yes, I would put the duo of Smith Sr.-Mike Wallace over Boldin-Smith. I think both Smith Sr. and Wallace are better than Boldin-Torrey and I think Breshad is an X-Factor here. He clocked in the fastest TD of the entire day at 20.68 MPH. That's insane and I think teams fear and respect that. I think we got a good duo of RBs and an OL who when healthy is pretty damn good. They looked great against a pretty good DL. 

 They do have to string it together though. I know some people are going to get a bit mad at me for saying this but I'm going to hold my breath on this offense and wait until after the New England game to decide how I feel. Games like this come with momentum and confidence, if you waste that against New England and crash and burn against the Patriots, then you might be looking at square one. That might be a harsh scenario to look at but a true test of this offense is next week against a Mastermind of defense in Bill Belichek and a pretty good defense. If the offense shows up that game, then no doubt I'm convinced they've arrived. 

I hope they have arrived, if they can pull off another great performance against NE then for sure I'm with Marty unless some meltdown happens.  

[BmoreBird22]

I still don't want Marty here. 

He had seven rush attempts to 37 pass attempts in the first half. In the second half, he ran five times before Tannehill's third interception. He was running the ball on 19% of plays before those closing runs to seal the deal.

Trestman was fired in large part to not running the ball. I feel like the Ravens are running it even less under Marty. They rank last in first half carries and that's more influence from Marty than Trestman at this point.

We can say just give him time, but not running the ball isn't an issue of not having his offense installed.

[PurpleCity5]

13 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I still don't want Marty here. 

He had seven rush attempts to 37 pass attempts in the first half. In the second half, he ran five times before Tannehill's third interception. He was running the ball on 19% of plays before those closing runs to seal the deal.

Trestman was fired in large part to not running the ball. I feel like the Ravens are running it even less under Marty. They rank last in first half carries and that's more influence from Marty than Trestman at this point.

We can say just give him time, but not running the ball isn't an issue of not having his offense installed.

You certainly make a point and the type of ZBS(Even though it's not totally a full ZBS) revolves around a balanced offense. That said, if the offense can sustain this level of performance, then yeah, I do want him to stay. If not, then I'm down with getting a new OC. 

[Ravensfan23]

15 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Would definitely be fine with Marty staying if the offense could sustain it like this. One thing is though is that you still have to put it together. I don't want to see one break out game from the offense and declare Marty as our guy. I personally want to see progress and see if we can sustain this, if so then I'm definitely on board with Marty.  

It's for sure sustainable because of the talent on this team. I've said it for most of this year that this is Joe Flacco's two best receiving options he's ever had. Yes, I would put the duo of Smith Sr.-Mike Wallace over Boldin-Smith. I think both Smith Sr. and Wallace are better than Boldin-Torrey and I think Breshad is an X-Factor here. He clocked in the fastest TD of the entire day at 20.68 MPH. That's insane and I think teams fear and respect that. I think we got a good duo of RBs and an OL who when healthy is pretty damn good. They looked great against a pretty good DL. 

 They do have to string it together though. I know some people are going to get a bit mad at me for saying this but I'm going to hold my breath on this offense and wait until after the New England game to decide how I feel. Games like this come with momentum and confidence, if you waste that against New England and crash and burn against the Patriots, then you might be looking at square one. That might be a harsh scenario to look at but a true test of this offense is next week against a Mastermind of defense in Bill Belichek and a pretty good defense. If the offense shows up that game, then no doubt I'm convinced they've arrived. 

I hope they have arrived, if they can pull off another great performance against NE then for sure I'm with Marty unless some meltdown happens.  

I certainly wouldn't say the Offense has arrived after only one great performance, especially since I wasn't willing to right them off after several poor ones. What I liked about the offense wasn't the production it was the situational football. 

Yes the production was great but I think it was the fact that Marty saw a weakness and exploited it. If the it didn't work he would have gotten trashed by fans, but it did work and he stuck with it even when the Ravens could have let up, they didn't. It seemed like it was a focus placed on getting over that 10-0 hump. The offense really didn't look any different to me other than the result of things. Re-watching the Cowboys game, i found only 2 drives that the Cowboys defense actually made a play to stop the Ravens. They could have scored on almost every possession in that game as well but it was penalties that hurt.

So what has me excited is that the oline played really well against a really good front. I said from the beginning that this offense had the capability to attack defenses in many different ways, from the TEs, to the running game, to the speed on the outside or a mixture each game. This game it was the TEs and possession guys killing the middle of the field. I think if the oline continues to block well they can sustain this type of offense. Maybe not 38 points and 400 passing yards, but definitely a offense that can attack defenses and not just take what is given. 

[K-Dog]

Joe Flacco for O.C.

 

Just kidding . 

 

Maybe . 

 

Sorta'.

[Ravensfan23]

15 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I still don't want Marty here. 

He had seven rush attempts to 37 pass attempts in the first half. In the second half, he ran five times before Tannehill's third interception. He was running the ball on 19% of plays before those closing runs to seal the deal.

Trestman was fired in large part to not running the ball. I feel like the Ravens are running it even less under Marty. They rank last in first half carries and that's more influence from Marty than Trestman at this point.

We can say just give him time, but not running the ball isn't an issue of not having his offense installed.

I'll say the same thing I said when it was mentioned by the broadcast team during the game. Anybody that has a issue with the running game under Marty either isn't watching the games and Just looking at stats or they are just flat out don't understand the game well enough. I think the only game that Marty can be criticized for abandoning the run is maybe the Jets game but the oline couldn't get any movement in that game at all. 

In that Dolphins game the Ravens found a weakness and exploited it. That is exactly what you want from your OC and if you have a QB/Oline that can handle that heavy pass volume than you do it. Not sure why so many people get so bent out of shape about the Pass:Run being balanced. The ultimate goal is for the offense to produce by finding a teams weakness and exploiting it. If you find a team isn't physical enough to handle your run game than you run it 40 times and ask Flacco to throw less than 20 if that's what it takes. 

I mentioned this to someone else, but each game has it's own story-line. I don't by into the run the ball at all cost or the Ravens are a run first team. I think those things are only thrown around when the offense struggles. The story-line of this game was that the Dolphins couldn't cover the middle of the field and trying to establish the run could have broken the rhythm of the offense. The Ravens used the run game well enough because the play action still worked enough to get guys behind the LBs. 

You run the ball for two reasons imo. To establish your offense and control the clock. The Ravens didn't have an issue at all with either. Even though they passed a lot, they still controlled the clock in both halves. I'll admit, when Mallett entered the game i was very surprised that they were still throwing the ball but I understood. It was still more than 9 minutes left and the offense was focused on keeping their foot on the gas pedal while being smart. So i get it, but I can understand why people could complain, however the Ravens had their short passing game working and the Dolphins couldn't get close to the QB.