Candidates to be the next OC

[BmoreBird22]

I don't think continuity is that important coach wise if you're going to keep hiring garbage or use dated and awful systems.

[52520Andrew]

Pipe dream but it would be great to have Hue here again if the Browns end up firing him. I don't think they do as they knew they were not going to be good and will give him more time but it is Cleveland so there is always a chance

What are the chances we can get Bill Callahan to move up 30 miles and be our OC? 

Also I know it is hindsight but it would have been great to have gotten Kyle Shanahan a couple years ago. Runs a zone blocking scheme and is really good at getting production out of the QB position. He did a good job in DC in 2012 before things turned south and the Falcons offense while good before he got there has achieved another level with him as their OC. He also did a good job under Kubes in Houston although how much control he had there is up for debate. The O-line and running game in particular has taken off there and Ryan is playing a lot better as well. Could be looking at a HC job here pretty soon.

 

Now that my random ramblings are out of the way, what sort of philosophy are you guys looking at with this offense? I'd love to get a really really good running game going to wear guys down and open up the play action so the guys on my wishlist tend to be a bit OL heavy but I am sure we all have different thoughts as to what is best for the offense.

[BmoreBird22]

This isn't a name I've seen mentioned yet, but Sean McVay might be willing to leave Washington. He's the OC there in name, much like Dennison in Denver.

If McVay really wanted the play calling responsibility (Gruden calls the plays), I'd really like to see him here in Baltimore. He's going to be getting A LOT of looks this offseason, but he'd do wonders for Flacco.

[allblackraven]

7 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Pipe dream but it would be great to have Hue here again if the Browns end up firing him. I don't think they do as they knew they were not going to be good and will give him more time but it is Cleveland so there is always a chance

Yeah, I think they want to give him proper shot at getting them out of mud.

The idea of him as our OC is nice, especially if he could bring Pryor to Baltimore as well.

[rossihunter2]

im not that well versed in this at all but are there any developed members of the ravens staff who could step in - obviously we hired trestman and kubes and marty etc. rather than move people through the ranks like we did with a lot of our DCs historically - is there anyone in the offensive staff who could feasibly earn a succession attempt?

[52520Andrew]

3 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Yeah, I think they want to give him proper shot at getting them out of mud.

The idea of him as our OC is nice, especially if he could bring Pryor to Baltimore as well.

I'd just take Hue to be honest lol

[Deflated Football]

Hue and Pryor in Baltimore would be amazing 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Deflated Football

[rossihunter2]

24 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

I'd just take Hue to be honest lol

pryor would be great but not at the price he'll cost

[52520Andrew]

1 minute ago, rossihunter2 said:

pryor would be great but not at the price he'll cost

Yeah I like Pryor as well(been big for me in fantasy), was more just saying I would be happy even without Pryor

[allblackraven]

18 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

pryor would be great but not at the price he'll cost

Save on backup QB until you need one longer term?

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

Now that my random ramblings are out of the way, what sort of philosophy are you guys looking at with this offense? I'd love to get a really really good running game going to wear guys down and open up the play action so the guys on my wishlist tend to be a bit OL heavy but I am sure we all have different thoughts as to what is best for the offense.

I want a OC that builds the passing game around 10 to 20 yard passes like Kubiak did. With Joe's arm strength he can really zip the ball in there on intermediate routes, and it seemed to work extremely well when Kubiak was around. Plus I think that would fit Wallace's and Perriman's skillsets very well.

[PurpleCity5]

21 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

@PurpleCity5 your post was too long to quote, but it was a lot of good points in there. 

I'll start with the continuity not being important and change not being a bad thing. I honestly think we saw the SB run and Kubes coming in as exceptions to the rule a bit. Caldwell came in and provided a spark and typical Joe he just got hot in the playoffs imo. During that 7 game run between Cladwell taking over and the SB game, Flacco completed 60% or more of his passes only 2 times. It was the deep ball that covered up a lot of the flaws with the offense. If you look at the full 23 game total of Caldwell being here, Joe completed 60% or better a total of 8 times. Also while there was change at the OC position, it wasn't much change to position players. Birk, Yanda and Oher all had been together since 2009. Boldin, Pitta and Rice were Flacco's favorite targets and all those guys were together since 2010 at least. So while there was change at the OC position, there was plenty of continuity on the offense. 

Than Kubes was so special because he's a master at running his offense and he brought i about 5 guys to help him coach it. Joe had his best season with Kubes, but how much better would he have been if he could have stayed in that offense under Kubes for 5 years or so? The fact that Flacco can have such success in the mist of constant change shows how good of a QB he is imo. We all wanna see Flacco be more consistent and I think having continuity is the start. 

As for Marty, I think the offense is clearly better. The numbers aren't showing it so far but just watching the games you can see it. I won't give him all the credit for the offensive design looking better than under Trestman because you are seeing a healthier oline and Flacco under Marty. However the run game is stronger, as you mentioned the oline is performing better and the passing game is more creative. Stats don't tell the full story always. Mike Wallace is in the top 10 in receiving and if SSS wasn't injured for 3 games he' probably be right up there a well. That duo is really starting to perform well together and I think Marty scheming the offense has something to do with it.

To be honest, I do think continuity is important, but I don't want a continuity of a poor offense. That's just not to be desired.

In Caldwell's case, I think Joe took a huge liking to Caldwell honestly. Players who are on the same page with their OC obviously do better, I can't say that was the case between Joe-Cameron but it was certainly there for Joe-Caldwell. They seem to get along pretty well given their similar personas based on what I've read and they both were just on the same page and desired the same things for the offense. I know Caldwell get's criticized a lot here after his 2013 season but there was a massive talent decline that year. It was a mix of everything awful between the OL, run game, WRs, and even TE. He had very limited resources and I think some people forget that.

in 2012 Caldwell had a good team as I admitted, but that good team was there since 2010 as you pointed out, with Cameron having been there along side. It surely didn't help in his case so I think Caldwell deserved major credit for what he did, especially with the short notice he was on. Caldwell took over Week 14,  while Marty took over Week 5, huge difference and Caldwell didn't even get a bye week to prepare. 

As far as Kubiak goes, that's the exact case I would make to go out there and get someone else. Marty doesn't have his staff here and neither does he has his offensive scheme implemented. I would definitely prefer a better candidate to roll around and change that. If not, then sure he stays and can make the changes need be. 

This year's Ravens offense has some pretty established guys honestly. I mean you got Yanda, Wagner, and Zuttah who have are in their 3rd season together, with just your left side being a pair of rookies, granted, they have all missed time but when together they weren't that effective. Steve Smith Sr. is in his 3rd, Aiken is also well established here with Perriman being the rookie. This may be Mike Wallace first year here but does it really look like that? Him and Joe have connected really well. I don't think this is much of any new offense outside of the left side of the OL, and the running backs West, Perriman, and Dixon. West doesn't look like a new guy either. Outside of that I don't think these guys play inexperienced together outside of the left side( Who when healthy play well) and Breshad Perriman. 

The offense improved under Marty but not by a whole lot. I know stats or numbers don't tell the full story, but these certainly do. "In four of 11 games this year, Ravens have scored 1st-Qtr TD, then not scored another TD whole game. Twice TD came on 1st drive" This was certainly present against Dallas, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh. I think we started the Jets game with an offensive TD but that was an awful perfomance all around. Point is that even though we beat Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, it doesn't mean you're going to beat the upper echelon teams in that fashion because you certainly won't. You can consider the Ravens one-and-done in the playoffs if that's how they want to start games. The fact that we have started games on fire and then fizzled out just seems like a theme on repeat. 

Another and final thing I'll point out is that the players just don't look confident in the offense. Even after the Bengals win Joe still looked frustrated, he, as did everyone felt that they should've put the Bengals away and unfortunately they just couldn't do that. You could even feel the same settlement from the Cowboys game. I know its a lot that I typed but this is really how I feel about where things are at the moment. 

[PurpleCity5]

4 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

I'd just take Hue to be honest lol

Hue is a damn good coach IMO. I feel like he's in a terrible situation. Granted he did have a role in the Browns demise this year but let's be honest, it's Cleveland. The Browns gave him assurance that they will give him time but how patient can you be at 0-16? 

[sibelius]

I find it interesting that people are talking about Hue like he would choose Baltimore over Cincinnati. If he gets fired, he's going back to Cinci.

[rmcjacket23]

7 minutes ago, sibelius said:

I find it interesting that people are talking about Hue like he would choose Baltimore over Cincinnati. If he gets fired, he's going back to Cinci.

Implies that there will be an opening in Cincinnati for him to go back to.

If he went back to Cincinnati, my guess is it would be as HC (if Marvin gets fired) or as an OC for a new HC that he has a history with.

[Ravensfan23]

15 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

To be honest, I do think continuity is important, but I don't want a continuity of a poor offense. That's just not to be desired.

In Caldwell's case, I think Joe took a huge liking to Caldwell honestly. Players who are on the same page with their OC obviously do better, I can't say that was the case between Joe-Cameron but it was certainly there for Joe-Caldwell. They seem to get along pretty well given their similar personas based on what I've read and they both were just on the same page and desired the same things for the offense. I know Caldwell get's criticized a lot here after his 2013 season but there was a massive talent decline that year. It was a mix of everything awful between the OL, run game, WRs, and even TE. He had very limited resources and I think some people forget that.

in 2012 Caldwell had a good team as I admitted, but that good team was there since 2010 as you pointed out, with Cameron having been there along side. It surely didn't help in his case so I think Caldwell deserved major credit for what he did, especially with the short notice he was on. Caldwell took over Week 14,  while Marty took over Week 5, huge difference and Caldwell didn't even get a bye week to prepare. 

As far as Kubiak goes, that's the exact case I would make to go out there and get someone else. Marty doesn't have his staff here and neither does he has his offensive scheme implemented. I would definitely prefer a better candidate to roll around and change that. If not, then sure he stays and can make the changes need be. 

This year's Ravens offense has some pretty established guys honestly. I mean you got Yanda, Wagner, and Zuttah who have are in their 3rd season together, with just your left side being a pair of rookies, granted, they have all missed time but when together they weren't that effective. Steve Smith Sr. is in his 3rd, Aiken is also well established here with Perriman being the rookie. This may be Mike Wallace first year here but does it really look like that? Him and Joe have connected really well. I don't think this is much of any new offense outside of the left side of the OL, and the running backs West, Perriman, and Dixon. West doesn't look like a new guy either. Outside of that I don't think these guys play inexperienced together outside of the left side( Who when healthy play well) and Breshad Perriman. 

The offense improved under Marty but not by a whole lot. I know stats or numbers don't tell the full story, but these certainly do. "In four of 11 games this year, Ravens have scored 1st-Qtr TD, then not scored another TD whole game. Twice TD came on 1st drive" This was certainly present against Dallas, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh. I think we started the Jets game with an offensive TD but that was an awful perfomance all around. Point is that even though we beat Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, it doesn't mean you're going to beat the upper echelon teams in that fashion because you certainly won't. You can consider the Ravens one-and-done in the playoffs if that's how they want to start games. The fact that we have started games on fire and then fizzled out just seems like a theme on repeat. 

Another and final thing I'll point out is that the players just don't look confident in the offense. Even after the Bengals win Joe still looked frustrated, he, as did everyone felt that they should've put the Bengals away and unfortunately they just couldn't do that. You could even feel the same settlement from the Cowboys game. I know its a lot that I typed but this is really how I feel about where things are at the moment.  

I'm not saying Marty is the guy, but I am saying you better make damn sure if you replace him it's with something who will advance this offense. Otherwise you're just introducing more change to an offense when it's really not needed. Again it's only one example but I go back to the Steelers about 4 years ago. It seemed like every week there were reports of Ben and AB taking turn chewing Todd Haley out. Now look at that offense, it's one of the best in the NFL. The reason why imo is because that offense stayed together long enough for those players to be able to basically run it themselves. I don't think Haley is any better or worse of a OC/play caller than he was when things weren't working. That offense now can basically go out there and play backyard football at times because they are consistently on the same page. AB and Ben can make a simple sight adjustment that takes what would have been a run play and turn it into a 40 yard pass because they've been in that offense together for so long that now all they have to do is read the defense the same. Interestingly enough Flacco and Perriman had that same opportunity last game inside the redzone but I completely understood why the confidence to even consider it wasn't there.

Am i saying Marty is the only guy that can do that, absolutely not, but he's not a bad guy to keep around because you know him, the players like him and he's putting guys in position to be successful, which is all you can really ask. Those disappearing acts by the offense suck, but do they suck enough to say the offense isn't headed in the right direction? Or are there minor tweaks the offense needs to make that will take them from good enough to explosive. If Flacco and Perriman find a way to complete that deep pass in stride instead of Perriman making a diving attempt, what does the offense look like? If Wallace gets if second foot inbounds at the 1 yardline vs Dallas and the Ravens score how much different does that game look offensively? Are the drive stalling penalties a result of Marty not being good or putting games in great position or do the players just need more time in the offense? Again not saying that Marty is the guy, just cautioning making a change for the sake of making a change because we don't see an explosive offense right now. 

I agree that the Ravens cant take their foot off the gas paddle when you have a team down and that's all on Marty I think. But again is that something to say, oh he's not the guy because of it or is it something like Flacco said in his presser that he and Marty had a funny conversation about it. You have to be able to put teams away offensively and not ask your defense to stop everyone. No doubt about that. 

Also I can understand not being happy with the offense and its probably just my natural optimistic nature that has me excited about the future of this offense, but I know there needs to be some change, just not massive change. If you do change the offensive system and OC you better make sure it's with someone who can stick around for a while and implement it more than just one season like Kubes did. The Ravens could have the #1 type offense like the Steelers and I don't think people would come knocking at the door for Marty the same way. Does that make him the best man for the job? No but I think he's good enough to lead this offense into the top 10 and when you have guys like Flacco, Perriman, Dixon, Wallace, Waller, Stanley etc... together for a long period of time, that's when the offense takes that step into the elite ranks.  

[Rav'n Maniac]

What would you guys think of Lane Kiffen as an OC here? He's fairly young at 41 and he has done really well as OC at Alabama. Maybe some fresh ideas to come along with him. I know he was a HC for Oakland and it didn't work out. Just curious what others think.

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

What would you guys think of Lane Kiffen as an OC here? He's fairly young at 41 and he has done really well as OC at Alabama. Maybe some fresh ideas to come along with him. I know he was a HC for Oakland and it didn't work out. Just curious what others think.

Can probably get a HC job in College, so unlikely he would want this job.

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

What would you guys think of Lane Kiffen as an OC here? He's fairly young at 41 and he has done really well as OC at Alabama. Maybe some fresh ideas to come along with him. I know he was a HC for Oakland and it didn't work out. Just curious what others think.

I don't think he'd leave Alabama for anything less than a head coaching job. Someone else from Alabama's staff that's been studying under Kiffen could be a good pickup though.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

1 hour ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

What would you guys think of Lane Kiffen as an OC here? He's fairly young at 41 and he has done really well as OC at Alabama. Maybe some fresh ideas to come along with him. I know he was a HC for Oakland and it didn't work out. Just curious what others think.

He's a fool. No thanks. 

 

At USC he had three damn good WRs (on the college level) and rather than extensively using all three of them, he focused on on Marqise Lee during his time there.

 

At Alabama he incorrectly utilizes Oj Howard, who's a freak athlete. 

 

Alabama is so good because of their personell, but he isn't someone I want

[BmoreBird22]

10 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

He's a fool. No thanks. 

 

At USC he had three damn good WRs (on the college level) and rather than extensively using all three of them, he focused on on Marqise Lee during his time there.

 

At Alabama he incorrectly utilizes Oj Howard, who's a freak athlete. 

 

Alabama is so good because of their personell, but he isn't someone I want

He force feeds all his top options.

Marqise Lee and Amari Cooper were both pretty much the only option to him in the passing game.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

5 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He force feeds all his top options.

Marqise Lee and Amari Cooper were both pretty much the only option to him in the passing game.

True, if you mean he's blind otherwise. For example at USC he had Robert Woods who was still a good college WR, and Agolohor who flashed good ability. Not to mention a Buck Allen who was a good RB. USC always makes it a point to go get good WRs. Even if they don't work out in the pros they are good college options. There's a reason several USC fans were calling for him to be fired so quickly. 

 

In Cooper's final season he still had Howard, who is a good recieving TE. Almost never used him. 

 

No thanks. I don't want him at all.

 

Id rather take whoever USC's current OC is.

[redrum52]

34 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Implies that there will be an opening in Cincinnati for him to go back to.

If he went back to Cincinnati, my guess is it would be as HC (if Marvin gets fired) or as an OC for a new HC that he has a history with.

I don't know why people think Hue is going to be fired.  The FO seems to understand they weren't going to do well this season and it appeared obvious to me they were trying to evaluate the younger guys on the roster.  I also think they have no problem with losing this season considering the picks they have.

 

Browns are going through a full rebuild, so those who want that, took a good look and soak it in.

 

 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

1 minute ago, redrum52 said:

I don't know why people think Hue is going to be fired.  The FO seems to understand they weren't going to do well this season and it appeared obvious to me they were trying to evaluate the younger guys on the roster.  I also think they have no problem with losing this season considering the picks they have.

 

Browns are going through a full rebuild, so those who want that, took a good look and soak it in.

 

 

Because they're the browns and they tend to be foolishly impatient with their coaches.

 

Such a disgraceful organization

[redrum52]

Just now, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Because they're the browns and they tend to be foolishly impatient with their coaches.

 

Such a disgraceful organization

...you're right... BUT I think they are finally on the right path.  They're doing a reverse Paul Brown.  Going with the coach from the Bengals to fix Browns.

 

 

They'll probably prove me wrong though.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

1 minute ago, redrum52 said:

...you're right... BUT I think they are finally on the right path.  They're doing a reverse Paul Brown.  Going with the coach from the Bengals to fix Browns.

 

 

They'll probably prove me wrong though.

Of course they will. They're the browns. They find ways to lose. Even if it's not in games

[kiwi_raven]

I would like to see what payton manning would be like as a OC

[rossihunter2]

12 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Implies that there will be an opening in Cincinnati for him to go back to.

If he went back to Cincinnati, my guess is it would be as HC (if Marvin gets fired) or as an OC for a new HC that he has a history with.

i mean the rumours were that lewis told the owners he would step down as head coach within a couple of years (probably to move officially into their FO) if hue jackson was pre-anointed as his successor

no way cinci fires him because they just let 3 potential hc candidates they groomed in house walk out the door

but even if hue jackson does get fired by the browns, some other team with a vacancy will pick him up as a head coach because despite going (probably) 0-16, he would have been screwed by a team in obvious rebuild mode and wont have proven himself a dud as it were

[BmoreBird22]

5 hours ago, kiwi_raven said:

I would like to see what payton manning would be like as a OC

Horrendous...

[sibelius]

13 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Implies that there will be an opening in Cincinnati for him to go back to.

If he went back to Cincinnati, my guess is it would be as HC (if Marvin gets fired) or as an OC for a new HC that he has a history with.

Agree to disagree. The base in Cincinnati is extremely unhappy with Zampese and feel that Dalton has regressed. Hue has a proven track record there, is best friends with Marvin Lewis, and has worked for him on 2 separate occasions. Given that the Bengals are all but guaranteed to kiss the playoffs at this point, if Hue becomes available I think that job opens up in a heartbeat. 

Hue is also a well known egomaniac and I just don't see Harbaugh bringing him back at this point in his regime.