Candidates to be the next OC

[rmcjacket23]

50 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

Honest question, would you rather have rah-rah Harbaugh as our head coach instead of Sean Peyton who's brilliant at designing offensive schemes?

Hard to say. Do I get prime Drew Brees in a package deal as well?

Or do I get 2002 "genius offensive schemer" Sean Payton who got his play calling duties taken away from him with the Giants by Jim Fassel?

Which guy do I get?

 

[usmccharles]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

In general, many teams hire a HC with a background in the segment of the game where that team had most recently been struggling.

 

Yea i can see that,  just ends up Working in reverse as it seems.  

[K-Dog]

1 hour ago, Deflated Football said:

Honest question, would you rather have rah-rah Harbaugh as our head coach instead of Sean Peyton who's brilliant at designing offensive schemes?

You really need a blend of both.

I would be curious if a "Sean Peyton"  type could have eeked the passion and effort out of a team like Harbaugh did the last few games of last season . 

[RaineV1]

4 hours ago, usmccharles said:

No college coaches mentioned? I don't follow college so  I wouldn't know where to begin 

Wisconsin has a solid, pro style offense that's very balanced. Louisville has been great with their offense too. I could see someone from them or from Alabama doing well as an OC in the NFL.

[PurpleCity5]

I'm fine with changing the offensive system personally. We argued that we should keep it for the sake of continuity but the offense has been pretty deadful the past two seasons to the point that its pointless to keep it if the offense continues to be below average. If the OC wants to change up things than let him if it fits what we want to do. 

[rmcjacket23]

9 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I'm fine with changing the offensive system personally. We argued that we should keep it for the sake of continuity but the offense has been pretty deadful the past two seasons to the point that its pointless to keep it if the offense continues to be below average. If the OC wants to change up things than let him if it fits what we want to do. 

I'm fine with this, as long as fans won't be hypocritical about it. 

Rarely an offense I've ever seen that was installed and integrated in year 1 that was playing at an extremely high level. Requires the right kind of personnel to run the system and, yes, continuity.

I'm willing to start over, as long as fans aren't hypocritical when the offense doesn't produce like they would like in year 1. Based on what I've seen around here, patience and realistic expectations are very, very, very rare in here.

Which is quite sad.

[Maryland]

7 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

I wouldn't mind grabbing an OC from the Chargers if they purge. Their run game has been very effective this year despite not having a good o-line, and I think both Dixon and West can run the type of plays the Chargers do with Gordon. They also seem to be good at attacking weakspots in a defense.

I love what the Chargers are doing on offense. Granted, half of that is having a great QB in Rivers, but like you said they've got a really nice run-game, and they're producing gaudy passing stats with guys like Inman and Tyrell Williams as their top WRs. However, I don't think they clean house with their coaching staff, since clearly they've been hit by the injury bug, and their coaches have them overachieving. 

Here's an interesting chart on that: 

5 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I think the game has passed him by. He was a great OC but I don't think we want to go back to the AC.

Agreed. I don't see Norv as an innovator. He's not someone who is going to come in and revitalize the offense. Also, doesn't he run a man-blocking scheme? I'll let The Raven help me out on that. 

1 hour ago, reed20 said:

Deliver us Mike Shanahan.

I wouldn't be upset by this. His stint in Washington was essentially sabotaged by the owner, who undermined his authority at every turn. And if you're someone who longs for the Kubiak offense, Shanahan is the closest you can get without doing something drastic at HC and bringing in Kyle Shanahan. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by Maryland

[Deflated Football]

1 hour ago, jazz1988 said:

 

I hate that John Harbaugh is considered  a rah rah head coach as if he has no intelligence when it comes to defense and offense especially defense since he worked under former Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Johnson and  his  father was a defensive coordinator as well. Sean Peyton is brilliant at designing offensive schemes but does he really fit the AFC North or Joe Flacco ?. 

He is rah-rah. Are you in the film room with him? He's a Special Teams guy. Rex and Pagano are defensive geniuses, albeit mediocre head coaches. Why have we blown so many fourth quarter leads if Harbaugh is so intelligent when it comes to defense? Shouldn't he take Pees to the side and say "hey, enough with the prevent and let's get back organized chaos."

You Ravens fans are so content with mediocrity. He inherited this team from Ray Lewis and Ed Reed (two defensive minds). His record since 2013 is 28-30. That's the definition of mediocre. He's not even .500.

It's time for some new blood. Another top ten pick and I hope we give Sean Payton a call. 

Why exactly do you think Sean wouldn't be good for them North? 

[Willbacker]

Already showing Marty the door lol and I was just getting used to using the term "Martyball" again. So sad.

Seeing the name Sean Payton a lot. At least on this page but then we talking another 1 and done but it would be very intriguing and well worth it you know if we go far lol. Also another poster mentioned something about college coaches and a guy I like could be David Shaw if he could be lured from Stanford. Just don't want another tired old recycled coach.

[jazz1988]

1 hour ago, Deflated Football said:

He is rah-rah. Are you in the film room with him? He's a Special Teams guy. Rex and Pagano are defensive geniuses, albeit mediocre head coaches. Why have we blown so many fourth quarter leads if Harbaugh is so intelligent when it comes to defense? Shouldn't he take Pees to the side and say "hey, enough with the prevent and let's get back organized chaos."

You Ravens fans are so content with mediocrity. He inherited this team from Ray Lewis and Ed Reed (two defensive minds). His record since 2013 is 28-30. That's the definition of mediocre. He's not even .500.

It's time for some new blood. Another top ten pick and I hope we give Sean Payton a call. 

Why exactly do you think Sean wouldn't be good for them North? 

 

You calling him a rah rah guy but are you in the film room to prove that to be true? Just because the guy has never been a  coordinator before doesn't mean he's  just  a rah rah guy. If you recognize the issue The Ravens have had with talent on this defense before this season then that explains  why the defense has blown so many leads.  AFC north isn't a finesse  division  which exactly the type of team Sean Peyton runs and that's actually the type of division he is in . If you one of those fans remembering the glory days of  a elite Ravens defense then you definitely not going to get that with Sean Peyton as the head coach

 

 I don't see how any Ravens fan can't see how much this defense has changed this year not only with better talent but with how the players have been making plays. I don't think that's all Dean Pees or Leslie Frazier and I honestly think John Harbaugh has some involvement. Organized Chaos is something that was done back in the day which I don't even think Rex Ryan himself even does anymore . If you think this defense isn't being alot more aggressive this season then I don't know what to tell you. You say Ravens fans are so content with mediocrity but yet you  want a head coach that's third in his division over a  head coach that's first in his division in standings.

Edited November 24, 2016 by jazz1988

[K-Dog]

I am convinced of this.  CONVINCED.  Harbs, Pees, and Marty have forgotten more about football than all of us know.

 

Don't kid yourself if you think you know more than any of them.

[Deflated Football]

3 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

 

You calling him a rah rah guy but are you in the film room to prove that to be true? Just because the guy has never been a  coordinator before doesn't mean he's  just  a rah rah guy. If you recognize the issue The Ravens have had with talent on this defense before this season then that explains  why the defense has blown so many leads.  AFC north isn't a finesse  division  which exactly the type of team Sean Peyton runs and that's actually the type of division he is in . If you one of those fans remembering the glory days of  a elite Ravens defense then you definitely not going to get that with Sean Peyton as the head coach

 

 I don't see how any Ravens fan can't see how much this defense has changed this year not only with better talent but with how the players have been making plays. I don't think that's all Dean Pees or Leslie Frazier and I honestly think John Harbaugh has some involvement. Organized Chaos is something that was done back in the day which I don't even think Rex Ryan himself even does anymore . If you think this defense isn't being alot more aggressive this season then I don't know what to tell you. You say Ravens fans are so content with mediocrity but yet you  want a head coach that's third in his division over a  head coach that's first in his division in standings.

Payton and Haley both run a West Coast offense so what's your point? 5-5 and leading a division is nothing to write home about. That's the definition of mediocrity. 

[Inqui]

3 hours ago, K-Dog said:

I am convinced of this.  CONVINCED.  Harbs, Pees, and Marty have forgotten more about football than all of us know.

 

Don't kid yourself if you think you know more than any of them.

I love how this got negged. There must be some true football savants posting in Ravens Talk.

[K-Dog]

6 hours ago, Inqui said:

I love how this got negged. There must be some true football savants posting in Ravens Talk.

Oh there is . 

[Mahatma_Sloth]

On 11/22/2016 at 11:22 PM, Ravenseconbeast said:

Good luck trying to find 'that perfect prince' for Joe Flacco.   

 

We already found him once, then he went to the broncos and won a superbowl

[BmoreBird22]

10 hours ago, Deflated Football said:

Payton and Haley both run a West Coast offense so what's your point? 5-5 and leading a division is nothing to write home about. That's the definition of mediocrity. 

Peyton runs a glorified west coast offense. It's more spread than anything and uses so many multiple formations and personnel sets that it's hard to really call it just a WCO. He simply runs the offense that works.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

14 hours ago, Deflated Football said:

He is rah-rah. Are you in the film room with him? He's a Special Teams guy. Rex and Pagano are defensive geniuses, albeit mediocre head coaches. Why have we blown so many fourth quarter leads if Harbaugh is so intelligent when it comes to defense? Shouldn't he take Pees to the side and say "hey, enough with the prevent and let's get back organized chaos."

You Ravens fans are so content with mediocrity. He inherited this team from Ray Lewis and Ed Reed (two defensive minds). His record since 2013 is 28-30. That's the definition of mediocre. He's not even .500.

It's time for some new blood. Another top ten pick and I hope we give Sean Payton a call. 

Why exactly do you think Sean wouldn't be good for them North? 

he drafted an offensive identity for a team that was mediocre in that category and gave us our greatest period of success in team history 2013 ravens had been picked apart for all intensive purposes was a rebuilding year considering the exodus of players either cut(Pollard,Leach), taking big contracts elsewhere(Kruger Ellerby), or retiring(Birk, Lewis). 2014 see what we can do with a decent OC that understands the importance of a run game. 2015 we basically had our 2nd and 3rd string lineup playing.  

[Deflated Football]

So since the subject was brought up (having to fire John in order to hire Payton because he probably won't accept anything less than a coaching job), this is something you guys would not do?

[rmcjacket23]

8 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

So since the subject was brought up (having to fire John in order to hire Payton because he probably won't accept anything less than a coaching job), this is something you guys would not do?

Ignoring the obvious aspect of this entire discussion being irrelevant because there's no chance in the World of this happening, probably not.

Give me a few years of Sean Payton running a high-octane offense without Drew Brees then we can discuss. 

Coaches have been and always will be a direct reflection of the production and execution of the players on the field.

Edited November 24, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[Deflated Football]

15 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Ignoring the obvious aspect of this entire discussion being irrelevant because there's no chance in the World of this happening, probably not.

Give me a few years of Sean Payton running a high-octane offense without Drew Brees then we can discuss. 

He was the offensive coordinator for the Giants back in 2000 when they went to the Super Bowl and lost to the Ravens as we all know. Guess who his QB was? Kerry Collins. Guess how many yards he threw that season? Just over 3,600 with a solid touchdown to interception ratio. The running game averaged over 250 yards per game. He doesn't need Brees to run a great offense, and he'd do wonders Flacco and our run game. Do your homework next time. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Deflated Football

[Ravensfan23]

15 hours ago, Deflated Football said:

He is rah-rah. Are you in the film room with him? He's a Special Teams guy. Rex and Pagano are defensive geniuses, albeit mediocre head coaches. Why have we blown so many fourth quarter leads if Harbaugh is so intelligent when it comes to defense? Shouldn't he take Pees to the side and say "hey, enough with the prevent and let's get back organized chaos."

You Ravens fans are so content with mediocrity. He inherited this team from Ray Lewis and Ed Reed (two defensive minds). His record since 2013 is 28-30. That's the definition of mediocre. He's not even .500.

It's time for some new blood. Another top ten pick and I hope we give Sean Payton a call. 

Why exactly do you think Sean wouldn't be good for them North? 

I generally don't get involved in this debates with you guys, but I have to ask this question because it puzzles me. 

So since 2013 Harbs is 28-30 with 1 playoff win and that's mediocre which I wholeheartedly agree with. You are what your record says you are so regardless of the circumstances this team has been mediocre to good the last 3 1/2 years. I think Harbs would agree.

However what puzzles me is that you want to replace the mediocre Harbs, who while I agree the last few years haven't been good, I still believe is a great coach, with a guy who over the same time period 2013-present has a record of 29-29 with 1 playoff win? Where is the improvement, because he's an offensive guy? Where is the proof that Sean Payton is a great coach, where Harbs isn't? I think he and Brees work well together but there is no proof that he can led a great offense without Brees, there is certainly no proof that he knows how to put the right guys in place to coach a defense. Also where is the proof that he's a winner? The NFC South for many years was viewed as a relatively poor division with the 4th place team often turning things around to win the Division the following year. If he can't consistently compete in that defense, what's to say he can lead a team through the North which in most seasons is considered one of the better divisions? Sean Payton led teams since 2013 have been beaten by 14pts or more 13 times, while the Ravens  have only lost 6 games by 14+pts. So where's the trade off. Other than both guys just having a change of scenery because their message isn't getting across, which is definitely not the case with Harbs, I don't see the benefit.

No to mention the flipside of what you knock Harbs for. This team has had HOF type leadership since it's inception with guys like JO, Ray and Ed. Losing those guys would take a plug out of any organization and while losing them hurts, this team still has that Ravens fight. I honestly think despite the record Harbs has done a fine job and much like it was when Ray and JO first got here, it's gonna take a few seasons to imprint that Ravens way on most of these young guys. It also helps when you can keep continuity.  

p.s I'm a Sean Payton fan and would welcome him here as coach, but I wouldn't fire Harbs for the sole purpose of getting him. If Harbs loses this team and his message goes stall, with players not fans, than I'd love Sean Payton, but there is no proof he'd get this team back to winning AFCCG and Super Bowls. 

[BmoreBird22]

20 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Ignoring the obvious aspect of this entire discussion being irrelevant because there's no chance in the World of this happening, probably not.

Give me a few years of Sean Payton running a high-octane offense without Drew Brees then we can discuss. 

Coaches have been and always will be a direct reflection of the production and execution of the players on the field.

This completely ignores the jump (and I mean MASSIVE jump) that Brees' stats took when he got hooked up with Payton.

In SD, Brees was a 63%, 3400 yards, 25TD/11 INT type guy. He goes to NO and all of a sudden he has yet to hit less than 4300 yards, has hit 30 TD's in nine straight years (I'm including this year), has thrown over 70% completion over three times, and has had a record four years of over 5,000 yards (including three straight and a year where he fell 48 short). 

Brees goes from the above numbers in SD to being a perennial 4,800 yard, 68%, 35TD/15 INT guy because he got Sean Payton.

There were teams doubting if Brees would ever be the same quarterback he was in SD because of that labrum and Payton just turns him into one of the best to ever play the game.

This isn't like Brees made Payton because we actually saw the early years of Brees without Payton and we know the vast difference between the SD and the NO years.

[jazz1988]

12 hours ago, Deflated Football said:

Payton and Haley both run a West Coast offense so what's your point? 5-5 and leading a division is nothing to write home about. That's the definition of mediocrity. 

Just because Payton and Haley run a west coast offense doesn't mean they run it the same way or have the same philosophy. Honestly Haley doesn't even run a west coast offense he runs a Erhardt-Perkins offensive system. Sean Payton and Gary Kubiak both run a west coast offense but no way do they run it the same way. I rather be 5-5  on top of the division than 4-6 listed third in division which is  Sean Peyton teams standings right  now. If we talking mediocrity then you may need to do better than bringing up Sean Payton .

 

HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO YOU AND OTHERS ON HERE.

Edited November 24, 2016 by jazz1988

[rmcjacket23]

38 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

He was the offensive coordinator for the Giants back in 2000 when they went to the Super Bowl and lost to the Ravens as we all know. Guess who his QB was? Kerry Collins. Guess how many yards he threw that season? Just over 3,600 with a solid touchdown to interception ratio. The running game averaged over 250 yards per game. He doesn't need Brees to run a great offense, and he'd do wonders Flacco and our run game. Do your homework next time. 

Curious as to why you ignored the fact that two years later he was relieved of his play calling duties mid-season and wasn't back with the Giants after that. Kind of convenient that you left that out isn't it? Any particular reason for that, or is it just the standard case of not fitting the narrative you want to achieve?

How about the next three years in Dallas? Why wasn't he calling plays there?

The homework thing is cute and ironic though. Nice touch.

 

[rmcjacket23]

31 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

This completely ignores the jump (and I mean MASSIVE jump) that Brees' stats took when he got hooked up with Payton.

In SD, Brees was a 63%, 3400 yards, 25TD/11 INT type guy. He goes to NO and all of a sudden he has yet to hit less than 4300 yards, has hit 30 TD's in nine straight years (I'm including this year), has thrown over 70% completion over three times, and has had a record four years of over 5,000 yards (including three straight and a year where he fell 48 short). 

Brees goes from the above numbers in SD to being a perennial 4,800 yard, 68%, 35TD/15 INT guy because he got Sean Payton.

There were teams doubting if Brees would ever be the same quarterback he was in SD because of that labrum and Payton just turns him into one of the best to ever play the game.

This isn't like Brees made Payton because we actually saw the early years of Brees without Payton and we know the vast difference between the SD and the NO years.

As is the case pretty much 100% of the time, they complement each other. That's how the great OC/great QB marriage works.

I personally would also expect a so called "genius" OC to have much better home/road splits, particularly given the talent.

[Deflated Football]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Curious as to why you ignored the fact that two years later he was relieved of his play calling duties mid-season and wasn't back with the Giants after that. Kind of convenient that you left that out isn't it? Any particular reason for that, or is it just the standard case of not fitting the narrative you want to achieve?

How about the next three years in Dallas? Why wasn't he calling plays there?

The homework thing is cute and ironic though. Nice touch.

 

I'm done talking to you. Carry on with your bullet points and Patriot defending. 

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

I'm done talking to you. Carry on with your bullet points and Patriot defending. 

Good choice. Trump cards are hard to argue with.

But don't worry... I'm about to point out yet more hypocrisy in one of your posts. Imagine that.

[Deflated Football]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Good choice. Trump cards are hard to argue with.

But don't worry... I'm about to point out yet more hypocrisy in one of your posts. Imagine that.

I've noticed your posts are consistently negged. How ironic. 

[rmcjacket23]

17 hours ago, Deflated Football said:

He is rah-rah. Are you in the film room with him? He's a Special Teams guy. Rex and Pagano are defensive geniuses, albeit mediocre head coaches. Why have we blown so many fourth quarter leads if Harbaugh is so intelligent when it comes to defense? Shouldn't he take Pees to the side and say "hey, enough with the prevent and let's get back organized chaos."

You Ravens fans are so content with mediocrity. He inherited this team from Ray Lewis and Ed Reed (two defensive minds). His record since 2013 is 28-30. That's the definition of mediocre. He's not even .500.

It's time for some new blood. Another top ten pick and I hope we give Sean Payton a call. 

Why exactly do you think Sean wouldn't be good for them North? 

So you're trying to do better than mediocrity, yet we're going to call a coach who is 29-28 since 2013 (Sean Payton)?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

You can keep moving the goal posts any direction you want, but I'm still going to keep knocking down FGs. If you judge one coach by W/L record, you judge ALL coaches by W/L record.

Swapping out mediocrity for mediocrity. Outstanding.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, Deflated Football said:

I've noticed your posts are consistently negged. How ironic. 

That's a good thing. Look at the people who post on here. If I'm getting negged, it means I said something intelligent that they didn't like.

Its a compliment bud.