Candidates to be the next OC

[OUravensfan]

On 12/13/2016 at 7:25 AM, Tank 92 said:

The other guys get the ball, they just aren't consistent and dependable. Drops, giving up on balls, not fighting for the ball, unaware the ball is being thrown to you.....lol just not what I would call play makers. Hopefully that can change, don't know. 

Not sure why you got down voted, they're not consistent enough and have bad drops, but then again no ones perfect, Flacco throws INTs

[OUravensfan]

22 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I was so frustrated with this game that I haven't gone back to watch it with a clear mind (watch it once to watch it as a football fan and once to analyze the game), so I can't say definitively what they did other than roughing up the defenders at the LoS and not giving them a free release.

As far as the Tampa 2 goes, you can actually beat the Tampa 2 in the same way that you could a Cover 2 scheme up the middle on seam routes. Their MLB, Hightower, is known as a big thumper without much speed to him. Put SSS in the slot or have Waller run a seam route and Hightower isn't going to be able to keep up in his drop. He's going to have the initial drop to take away a short pass, but is he keeping up with Waller or SSS for 20, 30 yards? No, probably not. The issue is that the MLB usually can't keep up, but he still tends to prevent those passes. Why? The quarterback hesitates. You just have to fire off right there when you see a slight window and if you don't, the linebacker is just going to increase his depth even further and take it away. That's the area I would have attacked first because the Patriots don't have athletic linebackers without Jamie Collins. 

If they want to attack with the receivers, you are correct that it is going to be a defense that will give you the underneath routes, more often to the sideline than the middle of the field. Many of those routes will be short outbreaking routes, but you can definitely attack it deep. Do you remember the SSS back shoulder fade? That's actually a perfect way to attack the defense deep. The corners are going to play over the top and push the routes to the boundary. It requires a precise throw, but comeback routes, out breaking routes, or back shoulder throws are going to beat that coverage.

As far as Cover 3 goes, there's actually several ways to beat it.

The defense will always surrender short passes to the outside very quickly due to the corners dropping deep and the SS and OLB having to buzz to the outside, but there are other ways to beat it.

Easiest way? Just run four verticals. Force the free safety to pick which route to help over the top and hope that a tight end on the inside can beat the linebacker over the top. Another way is to run inside verticals and then run deep outs or deep curls routes. If they're not playing in a press alignment (similar to the Seahawks), the corners will quickly drop to their third of the field and two verticals on the inside will clear out any outside routes in the intermediate range. You can run a three level concept. Have the wide receiver run a vertical route with the fullback or running back running a drag route. Force the linebackers to bite down while the corner drops to his depth. Then, have the tight end or slot receiver break on a corner route. If it's done correctly, the linebackers should bite down and the corner will go deep and force a wide zone for the slot/tight end to have a catch near the boundary between the linebackers and corner. 

Most of the routes that beat Cover 3 and Tampa 2 are going to be boundary type routes.

The back shoulder fade was beautiful, we certainly didn't have a 3 level concept on our last offensive play of the day, maybe you should replace Morningwheg

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, OUravensfan said:

The back shoulder fade was beautiful, we certainly didn't have a 3 level concept on our last offensive play of the day, maybe you should replace Morningwheg

I don't think I could coach, but I used to want to do analytics for like NFL Network or ESPN until most of those jobs started getting filled by just former players or coaches.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

44 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't think I could coach, but I used to want to do analytics for like NFL Network or ESPN until most of those jobs started getting filled by just former players or coaches.

Or some pretty faces that have absolutely no clue as to what they are talking about. I was witness to this at a former place of employment. Amber Theo-Harris is an absolute idiot and knows nothing about the sport other than what somebody else writes for her.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Or some pretty faces that have absolutely no clue as to what they are talking about. I was witness to this at a former place of employment. Amber Theo-Harris is an absolute idiot and knows nothing about the sport other than what somebody else writes for her.

I'm not unattractive, but I'm no Tebow or Channing Tatum. Just all working against me.

[DomMcRaven]

4 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Or some pretty faces that have absolutely no clue as to what they are talking about. I was witness to this at a former place of employment. Amber Theo-Harris is an absolute idiot and knows nothing about the sport other than what somebody else writes for her.

Well......at least she's a Ravens fan so she's cool with me. 

[Militant X 1]

I like Marty but I swear....everytime I listen to him answer questions at the pressers he sounds like Porky Pig....

 

[EdTheMythicalOne]

16 hours ago, DomMcRaven said:

Well......at least she's a Ravens fan so she's cool with me. 

You think so? Here's a quote from her on one of her articles she wrote before it appeared anywhere. I had to heavily edit it for all of the factual errors and the all too common "typo that isn't a typo because spellcheck didn't catch it."

"From day one the Ravens were an offense first team under Billick and was one that could move the chairs."

Perhaps she doesn't remember the Ravens days under Billick? You know, the one that could hardly score any points for itself unless Matt Stover was kicking FGs all day long and had a top ranked defense almost for the entire duration he was here. I know that "chairs" was a typo, but that just made it that much more hilarious.

 

[DomMcRaven]

9 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

You think so? Here's a quote from her on one of her articles she wrote before it appeared anywhere. I had to heavily edit it for all of the factual errors and the all too common "typo that isn't a typo because spellcheck didn't catch it."

"From day one the Ravens were an offense first team under Billick and was one that could move the chairs."

Perhaps she doesn't remember the Ravens days under Billick? You know, the one that could hardly score any points for itself unless Matt Stover was kicking FGs all day long and had a top ranked defense almost for the entire duration he was here. I know that "chairs" was a typo, but that just made it that much more hilarious.

 

After performing research, I definitely think she's a Ravens fan. It's not like I'd watch NFL Network for her football analysis.

I was having a convo with @Ravensfan23 about how much we really don't care about what the media/talking heads say for the most part. While I can't speak for him, I can say that what Amber said is another example of why we don't. 

[Ravensfan23]

3 hours ago, DomMcRaven said:

After performing research, I definitely think she's a Ravens fan. It's not like I'd watch NFL Network for her football analysis.

I was having a convo with @Ravensfan23 about how much we really don't care about what the media/talking heads say for the most part. While I can't speak for him, I can say that what Amber said is another example of why we don't. 

Of course I missed it. What did she say?

[DomMcRaven]

1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Of course I missed it. What did she say?

This according to @EdTheMythicalOne:

"From day one the Ravens were an offense first team under Billick and was one that could move the chairs."

[terrynjulia03]

Are you guys really discussing news people as knowing what they're talking about? Cmon that's why they started hiring former players and coaches, because the typical idiots, oops I mean "reporters" couldn't get anything right anymore than than the weather guy. 

The "sports" morons are no different than the rest. Get the story out quick, it doesn't matter if it's truthful or not, just be the first to report it. A very good quote from Denzel, when he lit into a pack of "reporters" was "If you don't read the newspaper you're uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you're MISinformed". Today's news, and reporters are a pile of dung. And this is evident in sports reporters.  Constantly talking out of their third point of contact and than get offended when they're called out and proven wrong. It is what it is. 

[PurpleCity5]

On 12/15/2016 at 11:47 PM, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't see improvements.

Two games with one TD and several where the offense craps itself or only shows up for one half.

No improvements? I disagree, run attack was never a big part of the offensive element to begin with. But I don't think you can deny that big plays and the play of Joe has elevated. I think guys around Joe like Dixon and Breshad have become a bigger part of the offense as well. We've also had two games in which we won by double digits, something that hasn't been done since 2014. 

[Tru11]

2 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

No improvements? I disagree, run attack was never a big part of the offensive element to begin with. But I don't think you can deny that big plays and the play of Joe has elevated. I think guys around Joe like Dixon and Breshad have become a bigger part of the offense as well. We've also had two games in which we won by double digits, something that hasn't been done since 2014. 

the way he played against the pats is your idea of him elevating his game?
 

[BmoreBird22]

7 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

No improvements? I disagree, run attack was never a big part of the offensive element to begin with. But I don't think you can deny that big plays and the play of Joe has elevated. I think guys around Joe like Dixon and Breshad have become a bigger part of the offense as well. We've also had two games in which we won by double digits, something that hasn't been done since 2014. 

Dixon wasn't healthy with Trestman, so there's a reason he wasn't a part of the game. As for Perriman, I felt like he had some really big moments, but you have to remember that he's basically a rookie with no training camp to his name in two years. We always knew it'd take Perriman some time. So, I really feel it's unfair to credit either of those two to Marty.

I think Joe has really stepped up in a major way in just the Dolphins game. I think he was getting better slowly, but surely from the Browns game on, but then had a total relapse against the Patriots, so we'll see what happens today.

As far as the double digit wins go, one came against the Browns (not impressed) and one was against the Dolphins where everything clicked and it was an amazing game. If the Ravens have more games like that, I'd be thrilled, but I doubt they will.

[Tank 92]

pats game is a throw out altogether in trying to gauge anyone's progress. Their coaches and coordinators did a masterful job in preparation and while it pains me to say it, they are the best staff in the NFL.  Patricia is a RPI graduate and a cerebral coordinator. He knew exactly what to do to stymie our "work in progress" offense.  

[DomMcRaven]

Should Marty be gone, I'd like someone from the college ranks (I have no idea who though). 

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Dixon wasn't healthy with Trestman, so there's a reason he wasn't a part of the game. As for Perriman, I felt like he had some really big moments, but you have to remember that he's basically a rookie with no training camp to his name in two years. We always knew it'd take Perriman some time. So, I really feel it's unfair to credit either of those two to Marty.

I think Joe has really stepped up in a major way in just the Dolphins game. I think he was getting better slowly, but surely from the Browns game on, but then had a total relapse against the Patriots, so we'll see what happens today.

As far as the double digit wins go, one came against the Browns (not impressed) and one was against the Dolphins where everything clicked and it was an amazing game. If the Ravens have more games like that, I'd be thrilled, but I doubt they will.

I think it's impossible to compare Marty to Trestman. Just listening to Harbs, Trestman was a decision he struggled with since day one, so the offense having poor performances early on really sealed his fate. Also I don't think he was as much about on field production as it was about disconnect between coach and players. Trestman just didn't vibe with the offensive players it seemed. So it was more than just how poor the offense looked. I think under Trestman you could have pinpointed a lot of reasons why things weren't working as well due to injuries and change.  

I never thought Trestman was a bad OC or the biggest problem until it came out that he just didn't vibe with the players. Now of course there were other issues but I don't think it's something that couldn't have been fixed with time and healthy players. So i don't think that there is many philosophical differences between Marc and Marty, I just think he fits the temperament of the offense better. There are certain things he needs to improve on like running the ball which you've pointed out. But overall I think the offense have improved and whether it's a direct result of him or not, it's improved under him.

I think the question is this. Is the offense  moving in the right direction enough to where  you think just a few tweaks here or there during the offseason can really improve things like the Steelers did. Or do you just strap things and hope to bring in a OC who can make this offense great from day one like Kubes did?

[RavensFanMania]

I believe if Marty doesn't come back, Mike McCoy could get an opportunity to be the Ravens OC.  He would be good with Flacco.

[DomMcRaven]

41 minutes ago, RavensFanMania said:

I believe if Marty doesn't come back, Mike McCoy could get an opportunity to be the Ravens OC.  He would be good with Flacco.

A number of posters say that. Because I have no idea about him, why would you say he'd be good with Flacco. Just curious that's all.

[RavensFanMania]

12 minutes ago, DomMcRaven said:

A number of posters say that. Because I have no idea about him, why would you say he'd be good with Flacco. Just curious that's all.

He's very good with qbs and although Rivers is a very good qb his best years atleast recently have been with McCoy.  Either as coach or his oc.  hes also a very good play caller.

Edited December 18, 2016 by RavensFanMania

[Ravensfan23]

50 minutes ago, RavensFanMania said:

I believe if Marty doesn't come back, Mike McCoy could get an opportunity to be the Ravens OC.  He would be good with Flacco.

 

 

11 minutes ago, DomMcRaven said:

A number of posters say that. Because I have no idea about him, why would you say he'd be good with Flacco. Just curious that's all.

 I like the fact that he's a former QB and I thought that was one of the things that made Kubes and Joe's connection so special. I don't know much about his offense but he's appears to have done a good job with both the Broncos and Chargers, he just doesn't appear to be a good HC. 

[DomMcRaven]

4 hours ago, RavensFanMania said:

He's very good with qbs and although Rivers is a very good qb his best years atleast recently have been with McCoy.  Either as coach or his oc.  hes also a very good play caller.

4 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

 

 

 I like the fact that he's a former QB and I thought that was one of the things that made Kubes and Joe's connection so special. I don't know much about his offense but he's appears to have done a good job with both the Broncos and Chargers, he just doesn't appear to be a good HC. 

That already sounds like a better OC than Marty. I'm done with him. 

 

[Ravensfan23]

5 minutes ago, DomMcRaven said:

That already sounds like a better OC than Marty. I'm done with him. 

 

I've been a supporter of Marty and it mainly comes from the continuity aspect of things. I'm tried of seeing things change with the offense. However the offensive talent isn't being used properly right now and I'm not sure Marty is doing well enough to ensure he's hired as the OC next year. I don't care who the OC is, they always seem to have the WRs running stationary routes. The Ravens just don't put enough pressure on DBs and force them to move. With as much speed as the Ravens have on this offense 80% of the routes should be running away from defenders and forcing them to cover large areas of the field. 

The offensive talent on this team is being wasted and I think I may have been wrong about Marty. I'm watching the Chargers offense right now and they put so much pressure on the defense because guys are consistently running across the field. If you are gonna place a emphasis on passing the ball so much, you better develop a strong passing game to do so and the Ravens don't really have one. They have the talent for one but I don't think Marty is getting the most out of it right now. 

[DomMcRaven]

5 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I've been a supporter of Marty and it mainly comes from the continuity aspect of things. I'm tried of seeing things change with the offense. However the offensive talent isn't being used properly right now and I'm not sure Marty is doing well enough to ensure he's hired as the OC next year. I don't care who the OC is, they always seem to have the WRs running stationary routes. The Ravens just don't put enough pressure on DBs and force them to move. With as much speed as the Ravens have on this offense 80% of the routes should be running away from defenders and forcing them to cover large areas of the field. 

The offensive talent on this team is being wasted and I think I may have been wrong about Marty. I'm watching the Chargers offense right now and they put so much pressure on the defense because guys are consistently running across the field. If you are gonna place a emphasis on passing the ball so much, you better develop a strong passing game to do so and the Ravens don't really have one. They have the talent for one but I don't think Marty is getting the most out of it right now. 

While it was a HORRIBLE INT by Flacco, I was so disgusted with the play call. Again, our running game was working fine, but it's being underutilized. This offense could be a lot better as I think it can be a top 10 scoring offense. It's clear to me that Marty isn't the answer. 

[allblackraven]

15 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I've been a supporter of Marty and it mainly comes from the continuity aspect of things. I'm tried of seeing things change with the offense. However the offensive talent isn't being used properly right now and I'm not sure Marty is doing well enough to ensure he's hired as the OC next year. I don't care who the OC is, they always seem to have the WRs running stationary routes. The Ravens just don't put enough pressure on DBs and force them to move. With as much speed as the Ravens have on this offense 80% of the routes should be running away from defenders and forcing them to cover large areas of the field. 

The offensive talent on this team is being wasted and I think I may have been wrong about Marty. I'm watching the Chargers offense right now and they put so much pressure on the defense because guys are consistently running across the field. If you are gonna place a emphasis on passing the ball so much, you better develop a strong passing game to do so and the Ravens don't really have one. They have the talent for one but I don't think Marty is getting the most out of it right now. 

He doesn't do anything for our offense. Individual brilliance is what won us the game.

[Ravensfan23]

3 minutes ago, DomMcRaven said:

While it was a HORRIBLE INT by Flacco, I was so disgusted with the play call. Again, our running game was working fine, but it's being underutilized. This offense could be a lot better as I think it can be a top 10 scoring offense. It's clear to me that Marty isn't the answer. 

I honestly don't have a problem throwing the ball into the endzone there, I have a issue with the play call. If you're going to throw the ball into the endzone there, get Perriman or Waller on the outside for a fade or at least give the illusion of running the ball to suck the LBs up and get a TE behind them. You asked your QB to make a tight window throw when it wasn't necessary. 

Now of course the smartest thing to do there is run the ball.

[ravens rule]

Irdk how to evaluate him with this inconsistent line. 

[Gruntled Ravens Fan]

We should try to hire Hue Jackson the Browns coach if he gets fired. He had great success here. Also I think we should try to get Gus Bradley as our DC since he just got fired. 

 

[RavensFanMania]

4 minutes ago, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

We should try to hire Hue Jackson the Browns coach if he gets fired. He had great success here. Also I think we should try to get Gus Bradley as our DC since he just got fired. 

 

I'd be on board with this if he got fired, but doubt he does