Candidates to be the next OC

[sibelius]

I'm hoping this year is what we thought we would have post '14 was going to be — the year it becomes the Joe Flacco offense and not a set scheme. That way we can keep Marty and let him be what Tom Moore was for Manning...a savvy offensive mind that would give sound input and develop gameplans but ultimately defer to the QB for execution. 

[RavensFanMania]

On 12/6/2016 at 3:51 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

Again, you summed it up perfectly. Your opinion was yours and minds belongs to me. I never said you didn't know what you're talking about. I simply said exactly what I said aloud while watching the game. If you or anyone else took it that way, that's how you choose to take it then that's your right to. Really have no interest in discussing it honestly, let's just talk Ravens. 

So my question for you is, do you think this offense should or better yet must resemble the 2014 offense to have be consistently successful?

The reason I ask is because you seem sold out to making sure the run game gets adequate touches. No matter the flow of the game, make sure the run game is getting work. Me personal, I've always thought that mentality has held the offense back. Make no mistake the likes of Ray Rice and Forsett have done some great things for this offense and I see Dixon in that mold. However, I've always thought this offense needed to be a multi dimensional unit. If teams take away the run, the passing game needs to be built to carry the offense. if the offense is struggling, than the run game needs to be good enough to lean on and if both are working than the defense has a headache trying to stop it. 

I think they are close to that. I just feel that you're gonna handcuff your OC/play caller if you're forcing him to run despite the flow of the game suggesting he continue to pass. if that's the case than Marty probably isn't the right guy for the job because he seems very interested in running the offense through his franchise QB and using the run game as a compliment. I'm more than happy with the way Marty is doing things. 

To add to this, as I agree it is @BmoreBird22 opinion, when Bill Walsh installed the WCO in SAN Francisco, he was using short passes as an extension of the running game.  Although I like balance as much as the next guy, I feel it is more important to go with what is working.

[Willbacker]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 11:13 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

Also the thing about the Ravens is that even with no huddle, they produce long clock burning drives. So you can get fooled by the pass attempts of Flacco, because those 2-4 yard passes to the RB, HB and TEs are just the same as the run late in games. It keeps the clock running and the offense ahead of the sticks. 

Imo a OC has to have a great read on his guys and a great feel for the game. Trestman didn't seem to have either during his time here. Marty on the other hand seems to have it. Right after him and Joe go at it in the QB room about staying aggressive, boom, Marty calls a really aggressive game and doesn't let up. I think that's big because you it shows the players that it's not just your way or the highway, the offense is theirs. 

Also I think Yanda summed it up prefect in the Wired segment. He said something like when Joe is on fire like that you just gotta ride him. We don't care how much we run the ball as long as we're scoring. Not his exact words but close. I think that's the mindset for every game honestly. Get Joe into a nice rhythm and if he catches fire ride him. However if things just aren't click early than you hope to be able to lean on the run until you can get that rhythm in the pass game. 

Wholheartedly agree when you talk about feel for the game. If the run game is going I believe Marty would stick to it and if Joe is hot ride that arm whereas imo Trestman always wanted to get cute and try to fool people.

To me tho this whole thread is moot cuz I don't want Marty going nowhere and he can become the longterm answer at OC.

[Ravensfan23]

6 hours ago, RavensFanMania said:

To add to this, as I agree it is @BmoreBird22 opinion, when Bill Walsh installed the WCO in SAN Francisco, he was using short passes as an extension of the running game.  Although I like balance as much as the next guy, I feel it is more important to go with what is working.

I think everyone would love balance, if nothing more than to keep everyone involved and force the defense to defend everything. But you just gotta stick with what works. Now when something isn't working and you refuse to switch it up or if there is an obvious weakness that you fail to take advantage of like the Redskins game than we have a problem.

[rossihunter2]

6 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I think everyone would love balance, if nothing more than to keep everyone involved and force the defense to defend everything. But you just gotta stick with what works. Now when something isn't working and you refuse to switch it up or if there is an obvious weakness that you fail to take advantage of like the Redskins game than we have a problem.

i think this is the thing that still makes me nervous - if the run game is going well - in excess of 4 ypc which it has been - and the game is close - then why are we not riding those rbs especially earlier in the season when flacco was missing etc.

im not calling for "balance" if its not needed, but i want the ability to trust the playcaller to stick to the run if it is a usable weapon against a specific flaw in a defense for example

[RavensFanMania]

18 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i think this is the thing that still makes me nervous - if the run game is going well - in excess of 4 ypc which it has been - and the game is close - then why are we not riding those rbs especially earlier in the season when flacco was missing etc.

im not calling for "balance" if its not needed, but i want the ability to trust the playcaller to stick to the run if it is a usable weapon against a specific flaw in a defense for example

Like the Redskins game.  This game was the worst for me.  We had this game won and we gave them the game.  All we had to do was continue to run the ball.

Edited December 9, 2016 by RavensFanMania

[Ravensfan23]

4 hours ago, Willbacker said:

Wholheartedly agree when you talk about feel for the game. If the run game is going I believe Marty would stick to it and if Joe is hot ride that arm whereas imo Trestman always wanted to get cute and try to fool people.

To me tho this whole thread is moot cuz I don't want Marty going nowhere and he can become the longterm answer at OC.

I hope the Ravens have found a long term OC that Joe and the offense can grow with. Even though Perriman isn't seeing many targets right now, you can easily see how he could be the featured WR in Marty's offense, but unlike with Trestman, it won't be one guy being force feed the ball. I'm a huge SSS fan but the offense is no longer run through him and that's a great thing. So many different guys are getting their hands on the ball with Marty calling the plays. I really like what he's doing and I think the Ravens do as well. No need to waste time searching for another guy, allow Marty to use that time to self scout as well as scout guys at the combine for this offense. 

 

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

i think this is the thing that still makes me nervous - if the run game is going well - in excess of 4 ypc which it has been - and the game is close - then why are we not riding those rbs especially earlier in the season when flacco was missing etc.

im not calling for "balance" if its not needed, but i want the ability to trust the playcaller to stick to the run if it is a usable weapon against a specific flaw in a defense for example

You can't put a mark in the negative column for Marty because of something Trestman did. I can't look at one game where Marty has given up on the run when it was working. 

As for that example, yes it would be a problem. However I'll say this. The lack of 1st downs usually means the lack of rush attempts. When the Ravens have those stupid penalties that set up 2nd and long or 3rd and long, it's hard for any play caller to call a run in that situation. Also you can only expect a OC to have the most trust in what produces the most success. I think the run game was so bad early in the season that some fans tend to over value it's current state of being just a complimentary piece. The Ravens just aren't gonna line up and smash mouth too many guys with this oline. Neither Stanley or Wagner are road graders on the outside, they both have a more of a attach and seal style of blocking, you won't see them drive block as much. Both Yanda and Ducasse are really good run blockers which helps a lot but Zuttah isn't as good. So this oline does just enough to have success in the run game but I don't think you can expect the Ravens to pounding teams into submission unless it's late in the game and the other team is dejected. 

The passing game is what will lead and carry this offense, while the running game will be good enough to take over stretches of the game or close out games.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

OC Update: I'm still in Camp Marty.

[RaineV1]

3 hours ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

OC Update: I'm still in Camp Marty.

If Marty continues letting Flacco direct the offense and being relentless in going after weaknesses, then I'm all for keeping him. We'll see how things go against a very good New England pass defense.

[PurpleCity5]

On 12/5/2016 at 5:59 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

I think everyone would love balance, if nothing more than to keep everyone involved and force the defense to defend everything. But you just gotta stick with what works. Now when something isn't working and you refuse to switch it up or if there is an obvious weakness that you fail to take advantage of like the Redskins game than we have a problem.

Sometimes, you're going to have to pass the ball to win. Certain situations demand it. 

Evaluating each game...

Vs Jets: Are you running it 30 times here? No, pointless you're running into a brick wall. I understand it wears out a defense if you run it on them but if you're not winning by the pass then you're not stopping a team who will not let you run the ball on them. #4 run defense. 

Vs Cleveland: West had 21 rushes for 65 yards, combined we had 113 Rush yards on 30 carries averaging 3.7 YPC. You're not beating teams like that. 

Vs Steelers: #6 run defense and we weren't getting anything going. 

Vs Dallas: Dallas has the #2 run defense in the league, now we were getting it on the ground early against them but through the course of the game they sold out hard to stop the run and we couldn't manage anything through the air with penalties killing us. 

Vs Cincinnati: While it doesn't show in the numbers, Cincinnati can actually do a decent job of stopping the run and against us they sold out on stopping it. We couldn't get anything going here on the ground. 

 

Against us, teams are selling out to stop the run because they feel that our passing attack isn't threatening enough to demand them more cautious of it. Great thing about the Miami game is we can show teams that we are certainly capable of beating them through the air. Sleep on our passing attack and you'll get burned, I think that's going to help us a lot. I think it could result in a lot more open lanes for West/Dixon and I definitely think teams will pay more attention to stop our pass game. 

To be honest with you, I want to see the pass game improve more. I think the run game will come if we improve our passing game, we need to show teams that we can, and will beat them through the air, do that and they won't bring their linebackers and safety to LOS. 

 

As opposed to the other games, vs Oak, vs Was, where there were limited excuses for not running the ball, I can't say for sure that were not running the ball enough. The truth of the matter is that we're not running the ball effectively. Instead of demanding to run the ball more, we should demand to run the ball better.

Edited December 10, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[Ravensfan23]

13 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Sometimes, you're going to have to pass the ball to win. Certain situations demand it. 

Evaluating each game...

Vs Jets: Are you running it 30 times here? No, pointless you're running into a brick wall. I understand it wears out a defense if you run it on them but if you're not winning by the pass then you're not stopping a team who will not let you run the ball on them. #4 run defense. 

Vs Cleveland: West had 21 rushes for 65 yards, combined we had 113 Rush yards on 30 carries averaging 3.7 YPC. You're not beating teams like that. 

Vs Steelers: #6 run defense and we weren't getting anything going. 

Vs Dallas: Dallas has the #2 run defense in the league, now we were getting it on the ground early against them but through the course of the game they sold out hard to stop the run and we couldn't manage anything through the air with penalties killing us. 

Vs Cincinnati: While it doesn't show in the numbers, Cincinnati can actually do a decent job of stopping the run and against us they sold out on stopping it. We couldn't get anything going here on the ground. 

 

Against us, teams are selling out to stop the run because they feel that our passing attack isn't threatening enough to demand them more cautious of it. Great thing about the Miami game is we can show teams that we are certainly capable of beating them through the air. Sleep on our passing attack and you'll get burned, I think that's going to help us a lot. I think it could result in a lot more open lanes for West/Dixon and I definitely think teams will pay more attention to stop our pass game. 

To be honest with you, I want to see the pass game improve more. I think the run game will come if we improve our passing game, we need to show teams that we can, and will beat them through the air, do that and they won't bring their linebackers and safety to LOS. 

 

As opposed to the other games, vs Oak, vs Was, where there were limited excuses for not running the ball, I can't say for sure that were not running the ball enough. The truth of the matter is that we're not running the ball effectively. Instead of demanding to run the ball more, we should demand to run the ball better.

That's the biggest thing there running the ball better. I think with the oline healthier  the running game has been a big better, but it's not built to be the driving force behind this offense imo. I agree with everything you said, improve the passing game and the run game will improve by default. I just don't think it's a need to stay balanced just for the sake of staying balanced. If the pass game is producing who cares about the number of touches other than the RBs? Like you said when the run isn't working early it's hard to stick with it. The Ravens aren't built to pound the ball 25-30 times a game. 

I to want to see the passing game improve and I think they are heading in the right direction at the right time of year. 

[PurpleCity5]

On 12/5/2016 at 5:59 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

That's the biggest thing there running the ball better. I think with the oline healthier  the running game has been a big better, but it's not built to be the driving force behind this offense imo. I agree with everything you said, improve the passing game and the run game will improve by default. I just don't think it's a need to stay balanced just for the sake of staying balanced. If the pass game is producing who cares about the number of touches other than the RBs? Like you said when the run isn't working early it's hard to stick with it. The Ravens aren't built to pound the ball 25-30 times a game. 

I to want to see the passing game improve and I think they are heading in the right direction at the right time of year. 

Right on the money here. I think what I would desire more is the passing game improving more than the run game at the moment. If you can play games where you can beat teams through the air regardless of your effectiveness to run the ball than you're going to go far. At this point, I view the running game as a compliment to our offense rather than having a full balanced offense. We're at that time of the year, where teams are going to tighten up coverage and play more zone and test your passing attack. If you can prove that you can beat them there than you're more than capable of making a big run. 

What I personally desire is to have a dominant passing attack that can beat any team through the air that has a run game to compliment, similar to what the Patriots had in their SB run. I would prefer that than a balanced offense to be honest with you because I don't think our problem is that we're not running the ball enough, as I have said I think our problem is that we're not running the ball better. 

I think the run game will arrive once the passing game improves because teams will no longer make shutting down our run game a priority. You're going to see less linebackers and safeties playing closer to the LOS and more open gaps. 

[RaineV1]

You know what the sad part is? If the Ravens do keep doing well, and keep playing like they did against the Dolphins then Marty is probably gone. Some team needing a head coach will be amazed at the way the Ravens' offense turned itself around after he became OC, and will offer him a ton of money.

[Ravensfan23]

2 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

You know what the sad part is? If the Ravens do keep doing well, and keep playing like they did against the Dolphins then Marty is probably gone. Some team needing a head coach will be amazed at the way the Ravens' offense turned itself around after he became OC, and will offer him a ton of money.

Good thing about Marty is he has a poor HC track record.He's won 5 games in two seasons as a HC, so I don't think many people will be knocking down his door, but of course it only takes one team to think he's their guy. 

Ideally what I'd like to see is Marty signed as the long term OC and promote a bright young QB coach who can learn under Marty alone with Bobby Engram so the Ravens have in house guys to take over for whatever reason down the line. Even if they turn into hot names, you can promote them to OC and uses Marty as a consultant like Tom Moore was for many years as someone mentioned before. 

 

[rossihunter2]

9 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Good thing about Marty is he has a poor HC track record.He's won 5 games in two seasons as a HC, so I don't think many people will be knocking down his door, but of course it only takes one team to think he's their guy. 

Ideally what I'd like to see is Marty signed as the long term OC and promote a bright young QB coach who can learn under Marty alone with Bobby Engram so the Ravens have in house guys to take over for whatever reason down the line. Even if they turn into hot names, you can promote them to OC and uses Marty as a consultant like Tom Moore was for many years as someone mentioned before. 

 

also i dont really think there will be that many HC vacancies and the top candidates will be people like teryl austin, josh mcdaniels and kyle shanahan

[Ravensfan23]

11 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

also i dont really think there will be that many HC vacancies and the top candidates will be people like teryl austin, josh mcdaniels and kyle shanahan

Yeah I agree with that. I can only think of like 3 HC opening off the top of my head. Marty has definitely earned a full offseason  and season to do what he wants with this offense. 

[rossihunter2]

32 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Yeah I agree with that. I can only think of like 3 HC opening off the top of my head. Marty has definitely earned a full offseason  and season to do what he wants with this offense. 

i imagine the vacancies will be jacksonville, san diego (if they're still in san diego), chicago, maybe san francisco or indianapolis and i think there's an outside chance that LA also has a vacancy (the contract extension was signed before the season so it's not an endorsement of fisher midseason), ny jets as well if the players stop playing for todd bowles

so i dont reckon there will be more than 6 and its more likely that there will be 4 or less

for me jacksonville is the only certainty and its quite possible/probable? that tom coughlin might fill that role

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

i imagine the vacancies will be jacksonville, san diego (if they're still in san diego), chicago, maybe san francisco or indianapolis and i think there's an outside chance that LA also has a vacancy (the contract extension was signed before the season so it's not an endorsement of fisher midseason), ny jets as well if the players stop playing for todd bowles

so i dont reckon there will be more than 6 and its more likely that there will be 4 or less

for me jacksonville is the only certainty and its quite possible/probable? that tom coughlin might fill that role

Reports are that both Rex and Tyrod are in danger of getting the boot in Buffalo. I'm hoping they fight for their jobs today vs the Steelers. I think the Browns would be foolish to give up on Hue, but I can certainly see it happening. 

I could care less as long as they leave Marty alone lol. Leave Frazier alone too. 

[rossihunter2]

37 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Reports are that both Rex and Tyrod are in danger of getting the boot in Buffalo. I'm hoping they fight for their jobs today vs the Steelers. I think the Browns would be foolish to give up on Hue, but I can certainly see it happening. 

I could care less as long as they leave Marty alone lol. Leave Frazier alone too. 

tyrod is in danger because of his massive contract, i dont think rex is in danger - he's done enough this season with a depleted roster

[Ravensfan23]

1 minute ago, rossihunter2 said:

tyrod is in danger because of his massive contract, i dont think rex is in danger - he's done enough this season with a depleted roster

Reports this morning was that Rex is one lopsided loss away from being fired on Monday, so I don't know how safe he is. Also watching their game right now, he might just be fired before the end of the night because they suck on both sides of the ball, depleted or not. 

[PurpleCity5]

Marty isn't exactly the type of guy you would go crazy for at the moment. It's very rare for a OC/DC promoted in season to become a HC. I don't ever remember that happening. Maybe after next season he might but his HC record isn't particularly great either. 

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Marty isn't exactly the type of guy you would go crazy for at the moment. It's very rare for a OC/DC promoted in season to become a HC. I don't ever remember that happening. Maybe after next season he might but his HC record isn't particularly great either. 

anthony lynn is tipped to be a potential HC carousel member...

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Yeah. We need a new OC

[Tank 92]

Just now, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Yeah. We need a new OC

We need receivers that catch and make plays.

[allblackraven]

4 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Yeah. We need a new OC

 

3 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

We need receivers that catch and make plays.

We have receivers, we just need someone who isn't completely out of depth to run our offense.

[RaineV1]

We need an OC that's far more aggressive, and who runs a quicker tempo offense. I'm really hoping the Chargers go into rebuilding mode and get rid of a coach or two for us to pick up for the offense.

[RavensRegime]

I really like the OC from the college ranks: Matt Canada from Pittsburgh Panthers! I watched some of their games, especially the matchup against Clemson. Very creative mind.

[Ravens559]

Hire the RB's coach of the Oakland Raiders as O. C. .. Bernie Parmalee

[RaineV1]

7 minutes ago, RavensRegime said:

I really like the OC from the college ranks: Matt Canada from Pittsburgh Panthers! I watched some of their games, especially the matchup against Clemson. Very creative mind.

Apparently LSU is just about to close a deal to bring him in.

[Cville-Raven]

1 hour ago, Tank 92 said:

We need receivers that catch and make plays.

I mean we have guys who can do that. The problem is we give the guys who can't do that the ball way too much; juice and Pitta.