Week 11: The Good, Bad and Ugly post game vent/rant Cowboys

[ravensdfan]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Prescott had ATS on 17/23 dropbacks with a 3-4 man rush, so roughly 74%.

He had ATS on 7/14 dropbacks with 5+ man rush, so roughly 50%.

I'm not 100% if the YPP stat applies to just passing downs or ALL downs, but my guess is it applies to just passing downs, since the entire analysis is based on that. So given that we gave up 11.4 YPP with a 5+ rush, and the total YPP on pass plays for the game was 8.1 YPP for Dallas, that would mean that YPP was a lot lower on 3-4 man rushes than it was on 5+ man rushes, which is pretty much expected. Doing quick math, looks like the YPP on pass plays on a 3-4 man rush was roughly 6.1 YPP.

So 6.1 YPP on a 3-4 man rush, 11.4 YPP on a 5+ man rush. So basically we were likely equally as effective in terms of getting pressure with a 5+ man rush as we were giving up a big play (over 10 yards) with a 5+ man rush.

FilmStudy also referenced the fact that 3 of the "pressure" plays that we got were based on "free runners" or unblocked pressure. One from Judon, one from Correa, and one from Weddle. My guess is that an unblocked OLB in most scenarios is simply a blown protection coverage, meaning the pressure was more about the Cowboys not picking it up rather than us applying it.

 

Thank you. I was being lazy about that .

I would like to see a half by half breakdown of those stats but that seems a lot to ask. Just that the point was his style in the first half vs the 2nd half. I mean, the man is the Cam Cameron of the defense. Calls genius games, genuis halfs, doesn't adjust when things don't work. Frustrating as all get out.

21 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

Why are you mentioning my name and quote when someone is addressing you?

Because your quote was attributed to me. About the constant 3 man rushes. No worries, he won't dare to contradict you. I'll delete it if you want.

Edited November 23, 2016 by ravensdfan

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

I would like them to stop pushing cap dollars forward for Webb, even though his tag will be high next year.  If they draft a safety, I'd like someone on the extreme end of the spectrum.  Either great ball skills or the outstanding short-area coverage skills to play dime.  I don't think the Ravens will do as well someone who's a little of both.

How do you feel about resigning Elam for 2 years at, say, $3-4 M total?

As a depth player, sure. I suspect he's in that Courtney Upshaw class... they'll let him test FA, and we will offer him what we feel a backup safety is worth. He takes it or he goes elsewhere. Not losing any sleep over either situation.

I'm certainly in the minority on Webb. Most fans and analysts expect him to be gone, and I can certainly see that happening. 

Just for some odd reason, I always think the FO and coaching staff values him more than fans/analysts do, and I'm not sure why you would convert him to safety just for one season and then let him go. If he had been benched for somebody better, I'd get it. I think he can play the position, just not at a super high level. 

I mean if we end up picking in the middle of the 1st round (which I suspect we will) and the BPA is a safety, by all means take him and start him next to Weddle for the next year or two. Just not really that interested in doing another 2nd or 3rd round pick on somebody like a Terrence Brooks and throwing him in as a starter right away opposite Weddle. 

Can't see a scenario where we buy somebody in FA obviously, so I think its either Webb or an early draft pick. In a perfect world, you'd do both. I suppose you could threaten Webb with a "paycut or be cut" scenario and shave maybe $1-2M off his cap number.

Me personally, thinking short term, I want pass rushers, pass rushers, and more pass rushers. If we retain our entire secondary from this season and they stay healthy, I'm fine with 2017 like that. 

[rmw10]

2 hours ago, Filmstudy said:

I would like them to stop pushing cap dollars forward for Webb, even though his tag will be high next year.  If they draft a safety, I'd like someone on the extreme end of the spectrum.  Either great ball skills or the outstanding short-area coverage skills to play dime.  I don't think the Ravens will do as well someone who's a little of both.

How do you feel about resigning Elam for 2 years at, say, $3-4 M total?

I wouldn't sign Elam to more than a 1 year deal for slightly over the minimum.  I have a hard time believing he's worth any more than that since he's shown nothing in his career so far.

[ravensdfan]

15 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

 

I don't think that @The Raven was attributing my simple post about the 3-man rush to you at all.  

Sure, I mentioned the 3 man rush cause to me they were ineffective.  I stand by that!  But in his post he actually uses the term, "Pees haters" and "going on and on."  No offense but you seem to be our main resident Pees hater that is constantly calling for his head therefore, I can see why you got singled out by name.

No offense taken. Proud to be a Pees hater as long as he continues to under produce.

But I did not go on and on about 3 man rushes. I talked about 3/4 man rushes in my comment which is why I thought he was attributing that comment to myself. Because other than that - there is NOTHING for him to single me out for about 3 man rushes. Either way - I had already changed it before you commented.

[Militant X 1]

7 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

No offense taken. Proud to be a Pees hater as long as he continues to under produce.

But I did not go on and on about 3 man rushes. I talked about 3/4 man rushes in my comment which is why I thought he was attributing that comment to myself. Because other than that - there is NOTHING for him to single me out for about 3 man rushes. Either way - I had already changed it before you commented.

Gotcha!

 

[Zeus]

On 2016-11-20 at 4:09 PM, BmoreBird22 said:

One disturbing thing for me is the fact that the Ravens made a really concerted effort to sign receivers to make sure that they had a contingency plan if Perriman got injured again or didn't work out.

What do they do for the secondary? Pretty much nothing.

100% correct! It's very frustrating 

[BmoreBird22]

6 hours ago, Filmstudy said:

I would like them to stop pushing cap dollars forward for Webb, even though his tag will be high next year.  If they draft a safety, I'd like someone on the extreme end of the spectrum.  Either great ball skills or the outstanding short-area coverage skills to play dime.  I don't think the Ravens will do as well someone who's a little of both.

How do you feel about resigning Elam for 2 years at, say, $3-4 M total?

I feel like I'm one of the few on here who still holds out hope for Elam

[redrum52]

10 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

I'm still waiting for that breakdown that is going to prove Pees did not change his approach in the 2nd half. So far it hasn't surfaced. Because he DID.

What was the outcome when he sent more pressure 2nd half?

Edited November 24, 2016 by redrum52

[Cillmatic]

48 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

What was the outcome when he sent more pressure 2nd half?

Bad. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Cillmatic

[Ravenseconbeast]

5 hours ago, rmw10 said:

I wouldn't sign Elam to more than a 1 year deal for slightly over the minimum.  I have a hard time believing he's worth any more than that since he's shown nothing in his career so far.

 

And It will be more than fair.   I don't see anyone picking him up.

[rmcjacket23]

8 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

Thank you. I was being lazy about that .

I would like to see a half by half breakdown of those stats but that seems a lot to ask. Just that the point was his style in the first half vs the 2nd half. I mean, the man is the Cam Cameron of the defense. Calls genius games, genuis halfs, doesn't adjust when things don't work. Frustrating as all get out.

Because your quote was attributed to me. About the constant 3 man rushes. No worries, he won't dare to contradict you. I'll delete it if you want.

Most of my analysis was based on FilmStudy's review, and I didn't do the All-22 this week (haven't in a few weeks actually), so I'm not the one to help with that.

The only other point that stood out to me from the analysis was yardage allowed vs expected yardage allowed, given the number of rushers.

With 3-4 man rushes, we actually gave up less yardage than expected (140 yards allowed vs 165 yards expected).

With 5+ man rushes, we were a ton worse... 159 yards allowed vs 86 yards expected. We were particularly bad in 5 man rushes. If we rushed 5 and didn't apply pressure, it was a big play almost every time. Could argue that's a big Jimmy Smith-issue, since we're playing mostly nickel coverage there and Jimmy isn't on the field for those snaps.

Edited November 24, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[Dfence4champs2052]

On November 20, 2016 at 1:09 PM, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

After your first two starters go down you're kind of screwed either way. Outside of two teams their aren't too many teams that deep at corner. 

 

Im not mad about the game. We played the best team in the NFC and played them hard. They were just better. This isn't an embarrassing loss at all

Giving up a converted 1st & 30 though??? SMH that was ridiculous 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

1 hour ago, Dfence4champs2052 said:

Giving up a converted 1st & 30 though??? SMH that was ridiculous 

We've done a 4th and 29. Things happen

[Marcus_Aurelius]

New member from across the pond here and 1st post. I thought the Ravens bossed it in the first half and then gave up in the second.  Don't understand whats going on there.

[MTRavensFan]

5 hours ago, Marcus_Aurelius said:

New member from across the pond here and 1st post. I thought the Ravens bossed it in the first half and then gave up in the second.  Don't understand whats going on there.

Agreed. The lack of second half adjustments has been deeply troubling all season.

[rmcjacket23]

8 hours ago, Dfence4champs2052 said:

Giving up a converted 1st & 30 though??? SMH that was ridiculous 

Just so we are clear... they didn't get 30 yards on one play. They got it over 3 plays.

I believe we gave up like a 3rd and like 27 or something against Pittsburgh a few years back.

[Ravensfan23]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Just so we are clear... they didn't get 30 yards on one play. They got it over 3 plays.

I believe we gave up like a 3rd and like 27 or something against Pittsburgh a few years back.

Didn't matter if it came on 1 play or 3, the result was the game. It was the turning point in the game. At that point in the game the Cowboys were averaging only 3.1 yards per play and showed little sign of figuring things out. I thought that sequence of the missed DPI on the pass to Wallace, followed by the defense allowing them to convert a 1st and 30 situation completely changed things. 

Was that the playoff game in 2010 when AB as a rookie caught like a 50+ yarder? I was so heated with Webb on that play. I just knew a stop right there would get the ball back to offense with 2:00 to drive for a game winning FG. 

[OUravensfan]

The refs were so awful this game it makes me sick. I will not be watching Jerry's bull Crap world today.

Hopefully the Luckless Colts can pull off an upset for us tonight 

[Tank 92]

16 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I feel like I'm one of the few on here who still holds out hope for Elam

I'm with ya here. I think he may be the replacement for Webb. 

[OUravensfan]

Just now, Tank 92 said:

I'm with ya here. I think he may be the replacement for Webb. 

I'm ok with keeping him for a very cheap contract 

[Tank 92]

1 minute ago, OUravensfan said:

I'm ok with keeping him for a very cheap contract 

Elam or Webb?  

[VermontRaven]

10 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Elam or Webb?  

I'd say either one, but I think Webb will command more money. I wouldn't mind keeping Elam if he is cheap and having him compete for the job next to Weddle.

[OUravensfan]

14 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Elam or Webb?  

Lol. Elam. Webb was interesting because he did acknowledge his situation was in jeopardy this off season and agreed to take a cut to help the team and the longevity of his income stream.

[PurpleCity5]

2 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

I'm with ya here. I think he may be the replacement for Webb. 

He hasn't shown anything to make the coaches believe he can replace Webb. No confidence there at all unless he shows something big this year. I'm not talking about bright spots I'm talking about big time play. 

19 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I feel like I'm one of the few on here who still holds out hope for Elam

I try to believe in Elam. I just can't find myself doing so. I don't think he's made much of an impact in the very limited time he's had on the field and prior to that he was dreadful. 

[Tank 92]

3 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

He hasn't shown anything to make the coaches believe he can replace Webb. No confidence there at all unless he shows something big this year. I'm not talking about bright spots I'm talking about big time play. 

Well obviously the coaches believe he can play or they wouldn't have used the "designated to return" card on him. As far as replacing Webb goes it's not a far reach. Webb has been serviceable but hardly setting the world on fire and has a big price tag. I think dropping him next year would give $5.5 mil. in cap savings. So yeah, it's definitely a possibility.

[The Raven]

On 11/23/2016 at 2:10 PM, ravensdfan said:

 

Because your quote was attributed to me. About the constant 3 man rushes. No worries, he won't dare to contradict you. I'll delete it if you want.

You're precious.

No, I named you because you complain every week about three man rushes, even when we rarely call three man rushes. Nobody complains about them more than you.

[BmoreRavens732]

Am I the only one who thinks the cowgirls are getting away with a lot of holds this season, from there O line to there corners? No wonder there on a 10 game win streak.

[redrum52]

10 hours ago, BmoreRavens732 said:

Am I the only one who thinks the cowgirls are getting away with a lot of holds this season, from there O line to there corners? No wonder there on a 10 game win streak.

Fans of nfc east teams have been saying this for years.  If you watch other games you would have noticed as well.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

The Cowboys are a perfect example of how a good winning streak can boost confidence. A lot of those guys are playing way above their talent levels.

[terrynjulia03]

On 11/23/2016 at 4:30 PM, ravensdfan said:

No offense taken. Proud to be a Pees hater as long as he continues to under produce.

But I did not go on and on about 3 man rushes. I talked about 3/4 man rushes in my comment which is why I thought he was attributing that comment to myself. Because other than that - there is NOTHING for him to single me out for about 3 man rushes. Either way - I had already changed it before you commented.

Man I right there with you. Pees is exceptionally bad at adjusting. Why he was booted from NE. Some people, who don't know jack about football guess it was a lateral move. Lol. There's been so many facts presented, both on here and rsr, especially from articles and fan posts up there, that the handful of homers still backing him really only embarrass themselves. 

He is very knowledgeable and can create a really really good game plan. But as soon as that goes downhill, he's done. Sooner or later a offense will figure it out. And once they do, that's it. People wonder why Brady and Co would put up 50 points in the first half. They had to.