Week 11: The Good, Bad and Ugly post game vent/rant Cowboys

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, Ravens4Real said:

PFF actually graded Wright out to be our best DB yesterday. Speaks to the games the other 3 had that no one noticed.

The sad thing his grade was below average

[ravensdfan]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Because firing coaches doesn't solve personnel problems.

5 years. Same argument. So either Ozzie & Co are bottom tier at what they're paid to do - orrrrrrrrrrrrr Pees doesn't know how to utilize personnel orrrrrrrrrrrr it is just a garbage argument.

Edited November 21, 2016 by ravensdfan

[AsianRice]

Every good OC is either taken or stolen by other team; the only good/great ones left are the ones running the team.....

 

We will be forever stuck with mediocre OC.......

 

PS: Gonna re-watch Kubiak's year with us........

[BmoreBird22]

23 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

5 years. Same argument. So either Ozzie & Co are bottom tier at what they're paid to do - orrrrrrrrrrrrr Pees doesn't know how to utilize personnel orrrrrrrrrrrr it is just a garbage argument.

Most analysts who are actually paid to watch football and know football more intricately than the board highly rank him, so...

[redrum52]

12 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Most analysts who are actually paid to watch football and know football more intricately than the board highly rank him, so...

WHY BOTHER?  This is like arguing with Sami about Flacco.

[redrum52]

Does anyone have stats on the ST unit?

[jazz1988]

10 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

5 years. Same argument. So either Ozzie & Co are bottom tier at what they're paid to do - orrrrrrrrrrrrr Pees doesn't know how to utilize personnel orrrrrrrrrrrr it is just a garbage argument.

The defense has played better than in recent years so it obvious the talent was the issue but i'm not really sure what Dean Pees could have done differently in this game.

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, jazz1988 said:

The defense has played better than in recent years so it obvious the talent was the issue but i'm not really sure what Dean Pees could have done differently in this game.

The better team won, its pretty simple

[Ravensfan23]

8 hours ago, gooftroop said:

Well, when they don't show the penalty on replay, you can be sure it was baloney. I had to rewind to see the hold, and, like you said, the tackle was already off balance- Zuttah just gave him a shove, and there was no hold, at all. Kind of hard to hold, then release, and run downfield, right? Just one of a number of bad calls. Not that it's unexpected, in a big game like this...

Yea I definitely don't want to make the calls an excuse because just like the Cowboys overcame 1st and 30 the Ravens could have overcome as well. However they did really hurt and it bailed the Cowboys out. For the Ravens to have the ball or should have had the ball at the 50 so many times and not produce points is disheartening. I'm tired of watching Ravens games and saying the score should be this or that. This offense has to find a way to overcome those penalties, no matter if they're poor calls or not. 

[Ravensfan23]

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

The better team won, its pretty simple

I think that is definitely true, but I think the reason that makes that statement true is what is so frustrating. I don't think they were the better team because they had better talent and were just physically superior to the Ravens. They were the better team because they were more discipline and took advantage of the opportunities presented to them. 

Watching that game I didn't see the difference between a good team and a bad team. I saw the difference between a championship caliber team and a playoff team, if that makes since. 

[usmccharles]

22 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I think that is definitely true, but I think the reason that makes that statement true is what is so frustrating. I don't think they were the better team because they had better talent and were just physically superior to the Ravens. They were the better team because they were more discipline and took advantage of the opportunities presented to them. 

Watching that game I didn't see the difference between a good team and a bad team. I saw the difference between a championship caliber team and a playoff team, if that makes since. 

Yea, I get what your saying.  But I just think they are better in all aspects, playing mistake free football and sometimes that's all it takes.  Now I do believe the game goes differently with Jimmy, not saying we win but I think some of those Dez plays don't happen.   The lack of a running game is really hurting this team, badly.  I don't know if Dixon is the answer but we need a playmaker in that backfield. 

Also, can someone explain to me, on one of the Dez TDs, I cant remember who the CB was, but they were in the RedZone and the CB was basically playing 10 yards off, easy little slant pass, TD.  I know most CBs cant handle Dez's physical style play, but damn....might as well just let them walk in.     ***It was Young, sadly.  A 10 yard cushion for Dez Bryant while they are on the 13 yard line, seriously?  He catches the ball at the 5....that's just nonsense***

Edited November 21, 2016 by usmccharles

[Ravensfan23]

56 minutes ago, AsianRice said:

Every good OC is either taken or stolen by other team; the only good/great ones left are the ones running the team.....

 

We will be forever stuck with mediocre OC.......

 

PS: Gonna re-watch Kubiak's year with us........

Think about this. How many times has Todd Haley been on the hot seat as the Steelers OC? How many times do we hear how players openly speak out against him or argue with his direction of the offense. However, over the last 2-3 years the Steelers have been one of the best offenses in the NFL. Why? It's my believe that the reason is because they kept him around and the key members of that offense were able to stay in that offense and now know it like the back of their hands. I won't turn this into a Flacco thread, but I don't think it can be denied how good he looks when he's got the offense in his hands and running things at the LOS. The problem is, it's hard for the Ravens to do this because there isn't much trust between QB and OC. I don't say that in a negative fashion like Flacco can't be trusted, I say that because it's nearly impossible to build that type of trust in 1 season and when you are consistently changing OCs it'll never happen. Just look at Kubes and Peyton last year. That trust dynamic was such a struggle that the offense actually played better without Peyton in most cases. No he just wasn't the same either, but I say that to point out that Kubes didn't feel comfortable just putting the offense in the hands of a future HOFer. 

I don't know what others think, but I feel the offense has improved under Marty and giving time to build continuity I think they'll play to potential becoming a top 5-10 offense. 

[usmccharles]

16 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

 

I don't know what others think, but I feel the offense has improved under Marty and giving time to build continuity I think they'll play to potential becoming a top 5-10 offense. 

Id like to see a breakdown of the stats between Trestmen and Marty

[Ravensfan23]

8 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Yea, I get what your saying.  But I just think they are better in all aspects, playing mistake free football and sometimes that's all it takes.  Now I do believe the game goes differently with Jimmy, not saying we win but I think some of those Dez plays don't happen.   The lack of a running game is really hurting this team, badly.  I don't know if Dixon is the answer but we need a playmaker in that backfield. 

Also, can someone explain to me, on one of the Dez TDs, I cant remember who the CB was, but they were in the RedZone and the CB was basically playing 10 yards off, easy little slant pass, TD.  I know most CBs cant handle Dez's physical style play, but damn....might as well just let them walk in. 

That's the thing, the running game actually dominated the Cowboys to the tune of 5.8 ypc. The problem was they couldn't sustain drive due to penalties, not the Cowboys play, so they never got a chance to lean on that defense like their offense did to us. The Ravens got everything they wanted offense. I can only remember the Cowboys stopping the Ravens on one drive that didn't have a penalty/non-call involved and that was opening drive of the 2nd half. The Ravens beat themselves, but that's a part of not being a good team. 

That was Tavon Young and it was a mismatch either way. The Ravens must attack the CB position in the draft because you don't realize how important Jimmy is until he's out of the lineup. However the Ravens can't continue to rely on him alone. If they can get another CB who can match up well with these bigger physical WRs this defense becomes much better. 

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, Ravensfan23 said:

That was Tavon Young and it was a mismatch either way. The Ravens must attack the CB position in the draft because you don't realize how important Jimmy is until he's out of the lineup. However the Ravens can't continue to rely on him alone. If they can get another CB who can match up well with these bigger physical WRs this defense becomes much better. 

I understand that we don't have a cb to compete with Dez,  but giving him a 10 yard cushion Is just as good as giving them a free catch,  and considering how hard he is to tackle for any cb,  a 5'9 cb is clearly going to struggle.  Definitely should of brought a safety over or something.  

[Ravensfan23]

7 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Id like to see a breakdown of the stats between Trestmen and Marty

I don't think that's the best indication of how good or bad the offense is/was under each guy. But it would be interesting to see though. 

 

8 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I understand that we don't have a cb to compete with Dez,  but giving him a 10 yard cushion Is just as good as giving them a free catch,  and considering how hard he is to tackle for any cb,  a 5'9 cb is clearly going to struggle.  Definitely should of brought a safety over or something.  

That's what happens when you blitz. Guys it matched up 1on1. I definitely would have given Tavon some help on Dez down there. Force someone else to beat you. Hold those guys to a FG there and you have a much better shot at winning the game. I just think the Ravens spent all their bullets on defense and once the Cowboys made adjustments there was nothing they could do. 

[usmccharles]

2 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I don't think that's the best indication of how good or bad the offense is/was under each guy. But it would be interesting to see though. 

 

That's what happens when you blitz. Guys it matched up 1on1. I definitely would have given Tavon some help on Dez down there. Force someone else to beat you. Hold those guys to a FG there and you have a much better shot at winning the game. I just think the Ravens spent all their bullets on defense and once the Cowboys made adjustments there was nothing they could do. 

Yea, leaving Tavon 1on1 was a big mistake in my opinion, not having Jimmy really killed us,  really wanted to see that matchup

[Ravensfan23]

2 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Yea, leaving Tavon 1on1 was a big mistake in my opinion, not having Jimmy really killed us,  really wanted to see that matchup

There's really no evidence of this, but if Jimmy plays I think the Ravens win. I think Jimmy would have been worth 1 or 2 stops when the defense needed it most. Even if he wasn't the guy making the play, just the option o containing Dez would help. imo

[Deflated Football]

If Sean Payton is fired, we need to do anything and everything to add him to the staff. Last time we had an offensive genius (Kubiak), the offense had so much firepower. Marty is not the answer. 

[jazz1988]

1 minute ago, Deflated Football said:

If Sean Payton is fired, we need to do anything and everything to add him to the staff. Last time we had an offensive genius (Kubiak), the offense had so much firepower. Marty is not the answer. 

Unless he's added as head coach then that's not going to happen.  I don't really think what Sean Payton does really fit Joe Flacco or The Ravens offense in general. I like Marty M and I think the offense is improving even though The Ravens didn't win on sunday. 

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

The Ravens have lost alot of games this year and as a die hard fan I've taken all of them on the chin without excuses,but yesterday was different.Yesterday was the first time of all the losses I felt like the refs were actively influencing the game.It kindve felt like the Ravens were supposed to lose with the amount of iffy calls and non calls that went against us.And to be clear again,I'm not even the type of football fan that even cries refs after games.

[usmccharles]

18 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

There's really no evidence of this, but if Jimmy plays I think the Ravens win. I think Jimmy would have been worth 1 or 2 stops when the defense needed it most. Even if he wasn't the guy making the play, just the option o containing Dez would help. imo

Well clearly, but it just seems logical we have a better chance of winning with our best CB on the field. 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

1 hour ago, HomeoftheBRAVENS said:

The Ravens have lost alot of games this year and as a die hard fan I've taken all of them on the chin without excuses,but yesterday was different.Yesterday was the first time of all the losses I felt like the refs were actively influencing the game.It kindve felt like the Ravens were supposed to lose with the amount of iffy calls and non calls that went against us.And to be clear again,I'm not even the type of football fan that even cries refs after games.

I'm with you on this one. I'm a fan that also doesn't normally go there at all (even when it is sometimes questionable and not beyond reason). This last game...?

What is holding when it comes to the Cowboys? Pinning arms, grabbing hands, tearing jerseys off receivers?

It's amazing and somewhat unprecedented how no post game analysis, post game article and/or replay throughout league coverage didn't even bring to attention even the most obvious officiating errors (example: End-zone holding of Aiken, no whistle personal foul of Zuttah, Holding penalty inconsistencies between our O-line and the 'vaunted' Cowboys O-line, etc.). Just saying. Normally when officiating is that obviously questionable and/or open to interpretation there is immediate follow-up reports from the league outlining missed calls, rule discrepancies and readdressing measures that may possibly fix it (although too late for this game).

Do a search. You'd be hard pressed to find anything, but 'Where will Romo land?' or 'How bout' those Cowboys?'. etc. etc. etc. 

Edited November 22, 2016 by FlocksGottaFeed
What is holding for Cowboys? photo

[Sunday QB]

3 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

5 years. Same argument. So either Ozzie & Co are bottom tier at what they're paid to do - orrrrrrrrrrrrr Pees doesn't know how to utilize personnel orrrrrrrrrrrr it is just a garbage argument.

Maybe we should see someone else run our draft board one time instead of Ozzie. Dean Pees needs to stop playing Prevent defense, just play Ravens football for 60 minutes. Then the only argument left is how players play.

[redrum52]

28 minutes ago, Sunday QB said:

Maybe we should see someone else run our draft board one time instead of Ozzie. Dean Pees needs to stop playing Prevent defense, just play Ravens football for 60 minutes. Then the only argument left is how players play.

How would you say the players played yesterday, out of curiosity?

[Sunday QB]

Just now, redrum52 said:

How would you say the players played yesterday, out of curiosity?

Player played trying to play their best for the plays called.

[January J]

8 hours ago, Star Power said:

Cowboy fan!  I read these boards prior to this game and actually tried to sign up Saturday to respond to some posts.   Now when I got home from work last night my email had the confirmation so this morning I decided to post some enemy thoughts/insights.

 

Pretty disappointed to see a lot of Raven fans (actually most) blaming officiating for the loss.  I do agree that Carr (CB #39) did hold interfere/hold in the EZ.  Totally not called/missed.   There are phantom holding calls every game and holding can be called every play.  Last week against the Stealers we had consecutive play calls on the O-line and a phantom call on a long run by Elliot.  And yes, sometimes I feel we are targeted by the zebras.  Can almost guarantee when we play the NY Gnats(in NJ) on Dec 11 our team will have to overcome such.  On the PF against Zuttah(sp?) the runner was locked up by 3 other tacklers and replacement SS Wilcox had stopped and was not engaging the pile when the O-Linemen drilled him.  I absolutely thought there coulda been a personal foul on the Cow's 1st TD to Beasley when Prescott was contacted 2-3 steps after releasing the ball and then driven out of bounds and driven into the ground by one of the Baltimore LB's.  Pretty dirty play on our star player and no flag.  That's the game though. Long and short of it the game wasn't stolen from your team and its weak say so, 99% of the time, to blame officiating for a loss.  Once in the while there is one call that directly takes away from the game.  Also we , as fans, always see things from a different and many time jilted perspective.

 

Now, my take on the ebb and flow of the game.  As I posted on the game time board I was engaged in I thought  Baltimore   brought the wood on both sides of the ball.  Dallas adjustment shut down the Raven run game making Flacco throw which I thought he did well.  Was really impressed with Wallace, #17, as far as speed and run after the catch.   I think 2nd half adjustments made the Cow's offense start to click.  Many on here blame your D but I think they just got out-schemed.  Not necessarily a talent thing, maybe a depth thing though as your D wore down towards the end of the game.

 

Dallas' coaching staff has shown the propensity to play it conservative in the 1st half and change things/open it up more in the 2nd.  Most of our games we've been behind or tied at the half then we distance ourselves from the opposition.  This tactic prevents the other team from making effective 2nd half adjustments,  One adjustment that allowed Elliot to become more effective in the 2nd half was he started breaking outside (especially on the offensive right side) with the O-line congesting the middle, setting the edge, and Zeke breaking outside making the safeties make the play.  Your safeties are good tacklers.  Another new twist was the use of Witten (TE) in the 2nd half.  I don't remember him being targeted in the 1st half.

 

I also read  lot of lamentations on CB Smith being out of the game being an outcome changer.  You guys were aware our best CB , Mo Claiborne,  and 5 year starting SS Barry Church both missed the game with injuries.  Injuries are part of the game, it sucks as far as us fans are concerned because we want our teams to have their best shot at winning but that's not the way the game goes.  Our starting left guard( La'el Collins ) and his backup(Chaz Green) are out for the O-line. I see Baltimore winning the AFC North if Flacco continues to perform like he did against us.  I think the Stealers are not as strong of a team ... hell, we played both on back to back Sundays and the Ravens seemed tougher.  Stealer defense is suspect and one of their TD's against us was pretty cheesey on the fake grounding play!  Our 1st game with our patched up secondary too.

 

Good luck to the Raven team and fans

Good  insight but I haven't seen anyone blame the loss on the refs..if they did that's just silly. However our #1 corner being out is a little more of a big deal though considering the  matchups and considering y'all have a true #1 receiver. But your right, injuries are a part of the game. We should've still been able to get the job done but y'all are just a powerhouse built team with finesse that just wears teams down. Would love to see a rematch if they happened to meet again you know where. Ravens got a lonnng way to go before that happens- but they are known to get hot once we make it to the dance.

5 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

Not really. I don't think that would have been the best choice any way. The chances of things not going well could have happened and it just  only puts the defense back on the field faster if it does. Keepingsthe defense fresh  should have been important plan in this game especially when going up against Ezekiel Elliot.

That's a good point, didnt think about that.

[omar586]

im i the only one who thinks Pitt has been a liability especially in blocking.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

15 minutes ago, omar586 said:

im i the only one who thinks Pitt has been a liability especially in blocking.

Not a liability exactly (leads team in receptions). The real liability is play calling. Why would you call a play that requires your 'catching tight-end' to block a edge rusher or any pass rusher? Jimmy Graham, Barnidge, Pitta, etc. are 'receiving tight-ends. Know your personnel and put them in the best position to succeed.

Simple. Don't use him that way. 

[Deflated Football]

I really hope Dallas has a first round exit. I can't stand that fan base