Proposed NFL Changes (merged)

[ludy51]

6 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, realistically, it should be about them or their team, since them are the one's who did something worth celebrating.

The fans didn't really do anything.

I think Seattle and Kansas City would disagree

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, Tank 92 said:

You must be thinking about Maryland horse racing.  lol  Golf is thriving and has an unprecedented number of young fans. The First Tee program has exposed thousands of kids to the game that otherwise would never have touched a club. Young phenoms like Rickie Fowler and Jordan Speith are imitated and admired. While the economy has forced some sponsors out of the game, others have picked up the slack and are making long term commitments. Golf is headed north, not south.

good post.  I believe this is the result of Tiger Woods.  A lot of the young players now who are expanding the popularity of golf grew up watching Tiger.  Tiger himself changed the sport forever. 

[rmcjacket23]

13 hours ago, ludy51 said:

I think Seattle and Kansas City would disagree

They can disagree all they want. They're still wrong in thinking that.

Fans in the stands cheering and clapping their hands don't score TDs. 

[ludy51]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

They can disagree all they want. They're still wrong in thinking that.

Fans in the stands cheering and clapping their hands don't score TDs. 

They do back up other teams though

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, ludy51 said:

They do back up other teams though

This statement makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[ludy51]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

This statement makes no sense whatsoever.

 

I really don't think I have to explain myself there

[rmcjacket23]

13 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

You must be thinking about Maryland horse racing.  lol  Golf is thriving and has an unprecedented number of young fans. The First Tee program has exposed thousands of kids to the game that otherwise would never have touched a club. Young phenoms like Rickie Fowler and Jordan Speith are imitated and admired. While the economy has forced some sponsors out of the game, others have picked up the slack and are making long term commitments. Golf is headed north, not south.

Yeah, that's not accurate...

http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/the-death-of-golf-20150625

You've got just a gigantic amount of red flags involved here:

1. You've got a 20% drop in golfers from 2003.

2. The key demographic to its survival, the 18 to 34 demographic, has declined 30% of the last 20 years.

3. Millennials... they don't have the attention span or the time to commit to the sport

4. Cost

5. Rapid decline in both public and private courses, largely driven by a combination of the economy and the lack of demand.

6. Its a sport that primarily (at least in the US) caters to middle-to-upper class, males. 

Not good.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, ludy51 said:

I really don't think I have to explain myself there

Cool. I also don't have to explain how fans have nothing to do with scoring TDs or celebrations.

I get it... fans like to flatter themselves. They feel entitled because they pay money to go to a game and therefore they feel they are integral to the on-field production from the players. They don't catch passes, they don't throw passes, they don't make tackles, they don't get tackles, and they definitely don't score.

If a player wants to celebrate what THEY did with a fan, cool. That's just pure generosity on their part. Its not like they really think fans were an important part of their accomplishments on that play.

[ludy51]

7 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Cool. I also don't have to explain how fans have nothing to do with scoring TDs or celebrations.

I get it... fans like to flatter themselves. They feel entitled because they pay money to go to a game and therefore they feel they are integral to the on-field production from the players. They don't catch passes, they don't throw passes, they don't make tackles, they don't get tackles, and they definitely don't score.

If a player wants to celebrate what THEY did with a fan, cool. That's just pure generosity on their part. Its not like they really think fans were an important part of their accomplishments on that play.

WHy would they have to score TD's to impact the game? Just because they aren't on the field doesn't mean they all of a sudden become obsolete

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, ludy51 said:

WHy would they have to score TD's to impact the game? Just because they aren't on the field doesn't mean they all of a sudden become obsolete

They don't. 

But why would somebody take issue with somebody celebrating about something THEY did? If a player wants to make a celebration about him, go for it. He's the one that scored or achieved whatever he's celebrating.

I would agree that perhaps players celebrate too often for achievements that really aren't that great, but individuals celebrating is what makes the sport more popular.

[ludy51]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

They don't. 

But why would somebody take issue with somebody celebrating about something THEY did? If a player wants to make a celebration about him, go for it. He's the one that scored or achieved whatever he's celebrating.

1. If a team has a crucial 3rd or 4th down at a point i the game, and the players can't communicate because they can't hear a thing, and false start, i'd say that's making an impact. maybe the fans didn't score but if they weren't there things would be much easier for the road team.

 

2. No achievement is made by a single person in football. A receiver needs a QB. A QB needs an O-line. Same with a running-back. The O-line need each other. Any defensive player needs his teammates doing their assignments so he can focus on his. This isn't a one man show

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, ludy51 said:

1. If a team has a crucial 3rd or 4th down at a point i the game, and the players can't communicate because they can't hear a thing, and false start, i'd say that's making an impact. maybe the fans didn't score but if they weren't there things would be much easier for the road team.

 

2. No achievement is made by a single person in football. A receiver needs a QB. A QB needs an O-line. Same with a running-back. The O-line need each other. Any defensive player needs his teammates doing their assignments so he can focus on his. This isn't a one man show

1. What does this have to do with a player celebrating?

2. That's great... so that means that no individual player can celebrate anything they do unless they incorporate everybody? If they don't incorporate the water boy and the personal trainer then they shouldn't celebrate individually at all?

I'm certain this is heading down the "get off my lawn" path. 

[ludy51]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

1. What does this have to do with a player celebrating?

2. That's great... so that means that no individual player can celebrate anything they do unless they incorporate everybody? If they don't incorporate the water boy and the personal trainer then they shouldn't celebrate individually at all?

 

1 The player celebrating with the FANS. Keep the argument straight. You can do it!

 

2. Celebrate with the team that helped you on the field. obviously. Unless your water boy is adam sandler

 

I'm certain this is heading down the "That's just your opinion bro" path. Don't worry. You wouldn't be the first to cop out of a lost argument.

[usmccharles]

32 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yeah, that's not accurate...

http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/the-death-of-golf-20150625

You've got just a gigantic amount of red flags involved here:

1. You've got a 20% drop in golfers from 2003.

2. The key demographic to its survival, the 18 to 34 demographic, has declined 30% of the last 20 years.

3. Millennials... they don't have the attention span or the time to commit to the sport

4. Cost

5. Rapid decline in both public and private courses, largely driven by a combination of the economy and the lack of demand.

6. Its a sport that primarily (at least in the US) caters to middle-to-upper class, males. 

Not good.

Can you please change your avatar to Chris Hansen, I would forever be happy. 

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

1 The player celebrating with the FANS. Keep the argument straight. You can do it!

 

2. Celebrate with the team that helped you on the field. obviously. Unless your water boy is adam sandler

 

I'm certain this is heading down the "That's just your opinion bro" path. Don't worry. You wouldn't be the first to cop out of a lost argument.

1. Do you really think players are "celebrating" with fans on a false start? Straight face and all you really think they are celebrating WITH you? Again, I get the fan flattery, I really do.

2. And if they don't celebrate with the team... what happens? The fans get offended and upset? God forbid. 

3. What argument can you possibly lose in an inherently subjective argument? Its not like saying "players shouldn't make it about themselves" is some sort of factual statement that isn't debatable.

I'm more interested in this laughable notion that fans get so upset when a player celebrates by himself, mostly because I find it fascinating and asinine at the same time.

Kind of ironic that fans generally think the NFL is turning into the "No Fun League", yet individual celebrations make some fans upset.

 

Edited March 31, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Can you please change your avatar to Chris Hansen, I would forever be happy. 

I have no interest in catching predators.

 

[usmccharles]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

I have no interest in catching predators.

 

Understandable, mainly meant for the 'calling out facts' part

 

Why don't you have a seat....

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

Understandable, mainly meant for the 'calling out facts' part

 

Why don't you have a seat....

I'm not sure that's what he's really known for though. 

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I'm not sure that's what he's really known for though. 

then maybe Mythbusters avatar would be more suited?

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

then maybe Mythbusters avatar would be more suited?

I like it. But I'm still too lazy to put up an avatar.

[berad]

Can we get back to the topic instead of the personal jabs?

[Tank 92]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yeah, that's not accurate...

http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/the-death-of-golf-20150625

You've got just a gigantic amount of red flags involved here:

1. You've got a 20% drop in golfers from 2003.

2. The key demographic to its survival, the 18 to 34 demographic, has declined 30% of the last 20 years.

3. Millennials... they don't have the attention span or the time to commit to the sport

4. Cost

5. Rapid decline in both public and private courses, largely driven by a combination of the economy and the lack of demand.

6. Its a sport that primarily (at least in the US) caters to middle-to-upper class, males. 

Not good.

 

eh, maybe a decline from the beginning of the Tiger era, but saying golf is "a dying sport" is totally inaccurate. That was a period of "inflation" if you will and everybody and his brother rushed to build a golf course to meet the demand. That same demand caused a rise in greens fees as well, but adjustments are being made there too. 

The state of the economy has caused a decline in most leisure activities that require $. Adjustments will occur and golf will not "die". 

[Tank 92]

59 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Cool. I also don't have to explain how fans have nothing to do with scoring TDs or celebrations.

I get it... fans like to flatter themselves. They feel entitled because they pay money to go to a game and therefore they feel they are integral to the on-field production from the players. They don't catch passes, they don't throw passes, they don't make tackles, they don't get tackles, and they definitely don't score.

If a player wants to celebrate what THEY did with a fan, cool. That's just pure generosity on their part. Its not like they really think fans were an important part of their accomplishments on that play.

lol   If there were no fans in the stands do you think the players' celebrations would be the same? And to point out the obvious, if the fans weren't there in the stadium or watching on TV, the players would be there either. 

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

 

eh, maybe a decline from the beginning of the Tiger era, but saying golf is "a dying sport" is totally inaccurate. That was a period of "inflation" if you will and everybody and his brother rushed to build a golf course to meet the demand. That same demand caused a rise in greens fees as well, but adjustments are being made there too. 

The state of the economy has caused a decline in most leisure activities that require $. Adjustments will occur and golf will not "die". 

Time will tell. Me saying it was "dying" was sort of tongue and cheek, since I don't think it will actually ever die to the point where literally nobody is playing it.

Golf depends on middle-aged people to play it and watch it. Its one of the few sports where the viewing and advertising demographic isn't necessarily centered around the 18-34 age group, which can get tricky for a professional sport.

I will say that, unlike other sports, people often adopt Golf at an older age rather than a younger one. The issue in particular with Professional Golf is there is a steady decline in young players, which will hurt the professional game long term. None of us will see the side effects of that for probably another decade though, and you could potentially see somebody like Tiger who comes along and rejuvenates the sport.

If the 18-34 population doesn't change their preference towards Golf in the next decade or so, you will see a dramatic drop in middle-aged golfers, which will hurt the industry more than anything.

I can pretty much guarantee for certainty that the "millennial" generation is a big problem for golf, because they just aren't showing much interest in the Sport whatsoever. 

The biggest "wildcard" in this industry is the lack of ability to generate significant interest from multiple racial and wealth demographics. Increasing minority population and their lack of interest in that sport is a bigger long term problem.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, Tank 92 said:

lol   If there were no fans in the stands do you think the players' celebrations would be the same? And to point out the obvious, if the fans weren't there in the stadium or watching on TV, the players would be there either. 

Maybe. I've seen similar celebrations in back yard football games with a bunch of my friends, and I can assure you the trash talking is just as bad. I'd say the celebrations themselves have more to do with TV cameras than fans in the stands. Fans in the stands make up but a sliver of the overall viewing population.

TV, yes, if people stopped watching on TV that would be a problem. Fans in the stands, no, really wouldn't change a whole lot, considering a lot of those fans would just become TV watchers.

[52520Andrew]

So all those times teams commit false start penalties and have to call timeouts since no one can hear the play call are not due to the fans being loud? 

[rmcjacket23]

44 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

So all those times teams commit false start penalties and have to call timeouts since no one can hear the play call are not due to the fans being loud? 

What does that have to do with players celebrating?

[52520Andrew]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Cool. I also don't have to explain how fans have nothing to do with scoring TDs or celebrations.

I get it... fans like to flatter themselves. They feel entitled because they pay money to go to a game and therefore they feel they are integral to the on-field production from the players. They don't catch passes, they don't throw passes, they don't make tackles, they don't get tackles, and they definitely don't score.

If a player wants to celebrate what THEY did with a fan, cool. That's just pure generosity on their part. Its not like they really think fans were an important part of their accomplishments on that play.

Well you did bring it up here so I am responding to it.

[rmcjacket23]

7 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Well you did bring it up here so I am responding to it.

Umm OK, I never brought up anything about fans causing false start penalties.

I merely stated, factually, that fans don't have an impact on typical NFL plays, such as catching passes, throwing passes, tackling, and scoring. If fans get their one play a game cheer when they are an important part of a team-called timeout, cool, pat on the back for that one.

Thus, whether a player chooses to celebrate with himself, his teammates, the fans, or not at all really has nothing to do with the fans. That's up to the player because he's the one who earned the celebration via his performance.

[52520Andrew]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Umm OK, I never brought up anything about fans causing false start penalties.

I merely stated, factually, that fans don't have an impact on typical NFL plays, such as catching passes, throwing passes, tackling, and scoring. If fans get their one play a game cheer when they are an important part of a team-called timeout, cool, pat on the back for that one.

Thus, whether a player chooses to celebrate with himself, his teammates, the fans, or not at all really has nothing to do with the fans. That's up to the player because he's the one who earned the celebration via his performance.

I'd say fans have an impact on typical NFL plays, especially in places like Seattle and Kansas City where the other team has a hard time communicating. That type of thing happens on every play when the road team has the ball. 

I agree(and this part is more my own thoughts on the subject of players celebrating) that a player can celebrate how they want for the most part and fans don't have to be a part of it. I think there are limits obviously to what the player can do but I also think some of the more odd celebrations have been remembered far more than the plays themselves. Heck NFL AM even does a segment every week of the regular season on player dances. Not celebrating is cool and I respect that but I don't think it should be a requirement and it makes people who don't celebrate look better when they can celebrate but choose not to.