Don't need to run against us?

[AsianRice]

4 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

Don't overlook the 3 INTs that were dropped by Weddle, Webb, and Mosely. We are not that easy to throw against. 

If one of them just grabbed one of those easy int, the game should be over sooner than everyone expected....

[GrimCoconut]

Here's the flaw in your attempt to find a flaw in this team: when you don't have the threat of running the ball your offense becomes one dimensional like what we've complained about regarding this very team. Ironic that you think running less could prove successful for other teams when it's clearly not the case for us. It is much harder to pass protect when the defense knows you're dropping back.

[reed20]

They can go ahead and throw every single play if they want then. Add more interceptions to weddle, young, and mosley.

[redrum52]

6 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

Not really. I was stating all along the Steelers lost a whole lot of talent with Martavis Bryant's suspension. The talent drop off from Bryant to their next receiver is pretty terrible. We have always done a fantastic job holding down Brown and the run has never really been an issue for this team besides an occassional game. I also knew the Bengals lost too much talent to be a playoff team in free agency. If they couldn't win a play off game with who they had last year there is no way they will this year.  

Suggs also looked decent getting around their O-line which is surprising with his age and his injury. Judon was getting pressure as well. It will be harder against a team that has multiple good receivers I think we will struggle this week against the Browns even without Josh Gordon or Corey Coleman. Pryor has been pretty good this season and Hawkins has always been a solid receiver who gashed us last time. Weird to think that Hawkins is their #4 guy when he would be a #2 on almost any other team. I think Hawkins puts up a good game against us which scares me. 

Completely agree with the bolded.  part of the reason I didn't buy he SB hype with them at the start of he season.  their defense is average at best and without Bryant I don't feel their offense would be as great as people made it out to be.  Next year if all their pieces are healthy, they should be extremely difficult to stop.

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, reed20 said:

They can go ahead and throw every single play if they want then. Add more interceptions to weddle, young, and mosley.

Got to catch them though.

[mmcclend]

7 hours ago, Static said:

I have no idea why Smith is ahead of Judon or even Correa.

He's just above average against the run. We wanted McPhee 2.0 and we got upshaw 2.0. I will say that he gets decent anount of "pressures" but he shouldn't be in front of Judon. 

[-Truth-]

8 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

Don't overlook the 3 INTs that were dropped by Weddle, Webb, and Mosely. We are not that easy to throw against. 

Great point. Sammie Coates' drop in the end zone was a significant would've-been, but we had a chance to end three separate drives. The Mosley one hit him square in the chest and both Weddle and Webb had the ball in their hands.

[The Raven]

4 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

You may have probably seen my response by now to Arnie_Uk but I can say more.Since Matt Judon right now is The Ravens best outside pass rusher it wouldn't make sense to give him more responsibilities which comes with being a every down player such as covering, setting the edge,  and etc to go along with rushing the passer.For a rookie and especially in Matt Judon case it wouldn't help his pass rushing effectiveness and I honestly rather see a guy like Correa settling edge and more than Judon.

Right, because Correa has clearly shown himself to be competent as an edge setter...

[Ravensfan23]

5 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Can anyone break down the yards per quarter? Run/pass

1st Quarter

Run: Bell 6 carries 12 yards......Pass: Ben 4/8 32yds......44 total yds 1 first down

2nd Quarter

Run: Bell 3 carries 5 yards.......Pass: Ben 3/7 18yds.....23 total yds 0 first downs. 

3rd Quarter

Run: Bell/Williams 3 carries 3 yards....Pass: Ben 1/5 4yds 1nt.....7 total yds 0 first downs. 

4th Quarter(before 21-0 lead)

Pass: Ben 1/3 7yds 0 first downs. 

So before the 21-0 lead @ 13:36. The Steelers ran the ball 12 times for 20 yards and Ben went 10/23 43% 61yds, 1 Int and 1 offensive first down(without penalty). After that obviously they racked up most of there yards and all of their points. Ben went 13/21 61% 203yds 2TDs and Bell ran 2 times for 12 yards. Clearly the difference was the Ravens defense moving a Tampa 2 zone defense opposed to the aggressive man coverage they played most of the game. 

[jazz1988]

12 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Right, because Correa has clearly shown himself to be competent as an edge setter...

I thought he was  solid job at setting the edge against The Jets when he started in place of Albert McCellan. I'm interested in seeing him more in that role.

[Ravensfan23]

4 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

Here's the flaw in your attempt to find a flaw in this team: when you don't have the threat of running the ball your offense becomes one dimensional like what we've complained about regarding this very team. Ironic that you think running less could prove successful for other teams when it's clearly not the case for us. It is much harder to pass protect when the defense knows you're dropping back.

This is from the article What the Steelers said After the game article from the front page. This is HC Mike Tomlin. 

Quote

(on why it took so long to open up on offense)
“We just weren’t interested in getting one-dimensional. We still had time. Obviously, the climate changed once the punt got blocked. Prior to that, we felt comfortable in terms of our ability to get it going because we were stopping them minus the big play that we gave to [Mike] Wallace. We were playing good enough defense. We felt like we didn’t have to get one-dimensional from a personality standpoint. The blocked punt changed those things.”

Also in those 21 passes that Ben had in the 4th quarter, there was 2 fumbles and he was sacked 2 times as well.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

29 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

1st Quarter

Run: Bell 6 carries 12 yards......Pass: Ben 4/8 32yds......44 total yds 1 first down

2nd Quarter

Run: Bell 3 carries 5 yards.......Pass: Ben 3/7 18yds.....23 total yds 0 first downs. 

3rd Quarter

Run: Bell/Williams 3 carries 3 yards....Pass: Ben 1/5 4yds 1nt.....7 total yds 0 first downs. 

4th Quarter(before 21-0 lead)

Pass: Ben 1/3 7yds 0 first downs. 

So before the 21-0 lead @ 13:36. The Steelers ran the ball 12 times for 20 yards and Ben went 10/23 43% 61yds, 1 Int and 1 offensive first down(without penalty). After that obviously they racked up most of there yards and all of their points. Ben went 13/21 61% 203yds 2TDs and Bell ran 2 times for 12 yards. Clearly the difference was the Ravens defense moving a Tampa 2 zone defense opposed to the aggressive man coverage they played most of the game. 

Agreed. Some of us could use a little more playback. The D did their jobs. The clock and lead changed the scheme. It worked-out. What's there not to like?

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

1st Quarter

Run: Bell 6 carries 12 yards......Pass: Ben 4/8 32yds......44 total yds 1 first down

2nd Quarter

Run: Bell 3 carries 5 yards.......Pass: Ben 3/7 18yds.....23 total yds 0 first downs. 

3rd Quarter

Run: Bell/Williams 3 carries 3 yards....Pass: Ben 1/5 4yds 1nt.....7 total yds 0 first downs. 

4th Quarter(before 21-0 lead)

Pass: Ben 1/3 7yds 0 first downs. 

So before the 21-0 lead @ 13:36. The Steelers ran the ball 12 times for 20 yards and Ben went 10/23 43% 61yds, 1 Int and 1 offensive first down(without penalty). After that obviously they racked up most of there yards and all of their points. Ben went 13/21 61% 203yds 2TDs and Bell ran 2 times for 12 yards. Clearly the difference was the Ravens defense moving a Tampa 2 zone defense opposed to the aggressive man coverage they played most of the game. 

Thanks for the break down.  Curious to how much of this was Ben not being healthy or if we were just better prepared.  I really think Tomlin is overrated as a coach. 

[terrynjulia03]

Having a complete brain freeze as to the name, but wasn't Z Smith highly touted by the coaching staff taking the place of a certain player, even stating in uniform they look the same, play the same, almost like a twin. In any case he certainly hasn't lived up to those expectations. 

As for moving forward, I've been a advocate of getting in a 4-3 base DC. IF we retain BWill, can you imagine him and Pierce in the middle with Jerrigan and ??? On the outside? I'm still a fan of Urban as a 4-3 end. Suggs, Judon, Correa, Orr(in certain packages), Zsmith, draft pick as your OLB, Mosley as the MLB. We have the tools to run a 4-3, which we do over 65% of the time anyways now. 

[The Raven]

42 minutes ago, terrynjulia03 said:

Having a complete brain freeze as to the name, but wasn't Z Smith highly touted by the coaching staff taking the place of a certain player, even stating in uniform they look the same, play the same, almost like a twin. In any case he certainly hasn't lived up to those expectations. 

As for moving forward, I've been a advocate of getting in a 4-3 base DC. IF we retain BWill, can you imagine him and Pierce in the middle with Jerrigan and ??? On the outside? I'm still a fan of Urban as a 4-3 end. Suggs, Judon, Correa, Orr(in certain packages), Zsmith, draft pick as your OLB, Mosley as the MLB. We have the tools to run a 4-3, which we do over 65% of the time anyways now. 

I'm not sure you understand how a 4-3 works.

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

Thanks for the break down.  Curious to how much of this was Ben not being healthy or if we were just better prepared.  I really think Tomlin is overrated as a coach. 

I don't think it had to do with Ben being injured because they gained like 210 yards in the fourth when they needed to get yards. 

The Ravens truly just came to play.

[sflegend89]

I think their commitment to the run had more to do with Big Ben's suspect health and inability to evade/throw accurately down field. 

They knew their defense could keep us in check so they opted to play conservative and play the field position game. They didn't fear our offense so punting wasn't the end of the world, they just wanted to avoid costly turnovers that gifted us points hence the heavy dose of conservative runs.

It was actually a good game plan on their part, we were just fortunate to get 2 splash TD's via Wallace and the blocked punt which nullified that strategy.

Edited November 8, 2016 by sflegend89

[ALPHA]

5 hours ago, mmcclend said:

He's just above average against the run. We wanted McPhee 2.0 and we got upshaw 2.0. I will say that he gets decent anount of "pressures" but he shouldn't be in front of Judon. 

He was talking double digit sacks this past offseason. Does anyone with a pff account know how his pressures count stacks up?

[Ravensfan23]

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Thanks for the break down.  Curious to how much of this was Ben not being healthy or if we were just better prepared.  I really think Tomlin is overrated as a coach. 

I think it was more Ravens defense than anything. We saw how Ben was able to deliver once the defense played zone, so if it was his injury I don't think he'd have over 200 yards and potentially 3TDs in the 4th quarter. 

I think what was exposed with the Steelers is that their offense isn't as dynamic as most think. They have 2 dynamic skill players in AB and Bell with a QB who can extend plays and throw down field. The Ravens also exposed Haley's lack of in game adjustments. Pees basically gave them the middle of the field because they triple teamed AB and maned up across the board with a Safety over the top with the seams open all day. However Haley rarely even tried. The Steelers are really reliant on the big play in the passing game and if he can take it away you'll see Ben throwing a lot of Ints, the Ravens just didn't catch them. 

Also vs Bell the Ravens learned quickly after the first time playing him that he's just a patient runner who wait for you to make a mistake in your gap containment and than gashes you. The Ravens stayed discipline up front and didn't allow Bell to get out of the gate. The Ravens have won like 6 of the last 7 matchups vs the Steelers. The national media won't recognize it but they Ravens have the Steelers number and they haven't found a way to crack that code over that last 3 years or so. 

[Filmstudy]

9 hours ago, Tru11 said:

probably gonna play in sub packages next to jernigan on the inside.

would make the most sense.

That would have the most value if he can fit there.  Bat a few passes and demand a few doubles inside.  While he's been a good special teamer and edge setter, I don't want to see McClellan on the field for another passing down.

I'd like another edge rusher in the 2017 draft, of course, but I'd also like Henry, Kaufusi, or someone from the draft develop the lightning first step of McPhee or Adams to rush from the inside.

[Filmstudy]

On 11/7/2016 at 11:02 PM, ALPHA said:

He was talking double digit sacks this past offseason. Does anyone with a pff account know how his pressures count stacks up?

Smith had just 3 pressures in 33 pass rushes versus the Steelers as I scored it.  Jernigan went 1 for 34. Suggs had 1 QH and a batted pass in 29.  Guy was 1 for 19.  McClellan/Mosley/Orr combined for 0 pass rush events of any sort. 

The lousy pass rush was a team effort.  Only Judon and BWill did well.

I spent a significant amount of space on the pass rush in my piece today, but the upshot is the secondary played an amazing game under difficult circumstances:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/11/07/filmstudy/ravens-defense-notes-vs-steelers-week-9/

Edited November 9, 2016 by Filmstudy

[Filmstudy]

4 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

I thought he was  solid job at setting the edge against The Jets when he started in place of Albert McCellan. I'm interested in seeing him more in that role.

I'm good with this, but either of 2 paths is ok for me:

1. Use him as a 2-down OLB and keep Za'Darius fresh for a pure situational pass rush role (See if that helps).  This is the better place to see if Kamalei can contribute as an edge rusher, too.

2. Get him time at ILB, so if there is another injury, McClellan doesn't have to play there.  Albert is too important as a 2-down edge setter and too limited as an ILB.

[usmccharles]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't think it had to do with Ben being injured because they gained like 210 yards in the fourth when they needed to get yards. 

The Ravens truly just came to play.

Thats what im hoping, this defense looks like one of the best in the league.  But the offense....oh man. 

2 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I think it was more Ravens defense than anything. We saw how Ben was able to deliver once the defense played zone, so if it was his injury I don't think he'd have over 200 yards and potentially 3TDs in the 4th quarter. 

I think what was exposed with the Steelers is that their offense isn't as dynamic as most think. They have 2 dynamic skill players in AB and Bell with a QB who can extend plays and throw down field. The Ravens also exposed Haley's lack of in game adjustments. Pees basically gave them the middle of the field because they triple teamed AB and maned up across the board with a Safety over the top with the seams open all day. However Haley rarely even tried. The Steelers are really reliant on the big play in the passing game and if he can take it away you'll see Ben throwing a lot of Ints, the Ravens just didn't catch them. 

Also vs Bell the Ravens learned quickly after the first time playing him that he's just a patient runner who wait for you to make a mistake in your gap containment and than gashes you. The Ravens stayed discipline up front and didn't allow Bell to get out of the gate. The Ravens have won like 6 of the last 7 matchups vs the Steelers. The national media won't recognize it but they Ravens have the Steelers number and they haven't found a way to crack that code over that last 3 years or so. 

Some good points.  Young has been a real steal of the draft.  9-7 could win the division which is crazy to think about and outside of NE i think we can play with anything because of our defense.  But if we cant get the offense to do anything, we are clearly in trouble.  To me, and maybe im the only one, i find it a good thing we are at the top of the division still trying to figure things out.  I mean overall defense at 2...i didnt see that coming and while i really dont care about anything other than points allowed, sitting at 9 is not bad at all. 

[arnie_uk]

13 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He's a big boy though and it's been news that he gets exhausted easily. 

Links? never once read he isn't capable of playing more snaps due to fitness levels. That's pretty poor if it's the case

[Ravensfan23]

7 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Thats what im hoping, this defense looks like one of the best in the league.  But the offense....oh man. 

Some good points.  Young has been a real steal of the draft.  9-7 could win the division which is crazy to think about and outside of NE i think we can play with anything because of our defense.  But if we cant get the offense to do anything, we are clearly in trouble.  To me, and maybe im the only one, i find it a good thing we are at the top of the division still trying to figure things out.  I mean overall defense at 2...i didnt see that coming and while i really dont care about anything other than points allowed, sitting at 9 is not bad at all. 

I think it's a great thing the Ravens are sitting in first with so much to work out. I don't care how it happens, just get to the playoffs and see what happens. 

What I'll say about the defense is people should have picked up in it last year and it's probably a smart thing to view the offense the same this year. The played considerably better during the second half of last year and it's my belief that guys like, Jimmy and CJ getting completely healthy to go along with young guys like Timmy, BW, Guy Orr, and ZDS got quality reps to develop. Then Ozzie added more talent like Young, Judon, Correa and Peirce to go long with the veteran presence of Weddle. 

Right now the offense looks pretty bad, but they are dealing with a tin of continuity issues with guys rotating in and out of the lineup due to injuries. I think you can clearly see the talent but it's a lack of chemistry right now. That timing and persistence offense the Ravens are searching for just isn't there because there's not a ton of trust between the 11-15 guys you broke camp thinking would be your best guys. It's not the same coach calling the plays. If the offense can stay healthy I think we'll see great improvement in December. The hope is that they can play well enough to still be in the playoff picture at that point. 

Unfortunately I don't think we see this offense fully click until the final 2-3 games of the season. The good thing is those final 3 games can put this team into the playoffs and there isn't one single AFC team that scares me on both sides of the ball.

[GrimCoconut]

6 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

Links? never once read he isn't capable of playing more snaps due to fitness levels. That's pretty poor if it's the case

I don't think it's fact that he gets exhausted easily but something people inferred after he started in that preseason game. I think it was the third or fourth but I can't recall right now. Regardless of which game it was, he looked exhausted when he was playing every snap. That isn't to say it's still an issue since people do improve physically in their conditioning but nobody can say that posts here because nobody really knows. It's all conjecture. 

[AsianRice]

12 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I think it was more Ravens defense than anything. We saw how Ben was able to deliver once the defense played zone, so if it was his injury I don't think he'd have over 200 yards and potentially 3TDs in the 4th quarter. 

I think what was exposed with the Steelers is that their offense isn't as dynamic as most think. They have 2 dynamic skill players in AB and Bell with a QB who can extend plays and throw down field. The Ravens also exposed Haley's lack of in game adjustments. Pees basically gave them the middle of the field because they triple teamed AB and maned up across the board with a Safety over the top with the seams open all day. However Haley rarely even tried. The Steelers are really reliant on the big play in the passing game and if he can take it away you'll see Ben throwing a lot of Ints, the Ravens just didn't catch them. 

Also vs Bell the Ravens learned quickly after the first time playing him that he's just a patient runner who wait for you to make a mistake in your gap containment and than gashes you. The Ravens stayed discipline up front and didn't allow Bell to get out of the gate. The Ravens have won like 6 of the last 7 matchups vs the Steelers. The national media won't recognize it but they Ravens have the Steelers number and they haven't found a way to crack that code over that last 3 years or so. 

We need to crack that code against the Bengals this year.....

[Ravensfan23]

5 minutes ago, AsianRice said:

We need to crack that code against the Bengals this year.....

If there was ever a freaking year. A healthy Jimmy to match with AJ and even if Tavon is on him, I feel good with Weddle over the top. Haven't watched a ton of their games but I don't think their Dline is playing nearly as well as we're used to so that's a plus if true. I think it'll come down to Flacco making enough plays in the passing game and the ST unit not making any mistakes. I think AJ will get his some way but just limit him in the 4th quarter and we have a shot. 

Stop the run and bracket coverage on Green if need be.Force Dalton to be you with 20-30 throws to someone other than AJ.

[ALPHA]

18 hours ago, Filmstudy said:

Smith had just 3 pressures in 30 pass rushes versus the Steelers as I scored it.  Jernigan went 1 for 34. Suggs had 1 QH and a batted pass in 29.  Guy was 1 for 19.  McClellan/Mosley/Orr combined for 0 pass rush events of any sort. 

The lousy pass rush was a team effort.  Only Judon and BWill did well.

I spent a significant amount of space on the pass rush in my piece today, but the upshot is the secondary played an amazing game under difficult circumstances:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/11/07/filmstudy/ravens-defense-notes-vs-steelers-week-9/

How does Judon stack up with the rookie pass rushers? im working on a theory... thanks in advance.