Week 9: The Good, Bad and Ugly vent thread

[terrynjulia03]

The Good: Our D came to play. Even Webb made a appearance or 2, although one was a dropped pick but still it was nice to actually see him around the ball. Jimmy and Young played lights out and our front 7 dominated and shut down one of the top rushers in the game. SSS brought back his fire and intensity. That's going to be sorely missed next year. 

The Bad: The OL, and specifically Stanley. Yes yes rookie mistakes and coming back from injury but 3 of his penalties negated first downs. Lewis is struggling. The offense in general just looks completely inept with no direction. 

The Ugly: The Steelers entire game, they just didn't look prepared at all. Pees 4th quarter defense. Something that's plagued us ever since he's been here. There's been a fire Pees thread that's hit 100+ pages every year for the past 3. And today's 4th quarter D showed why. A 21 point lead with 10min left and we go down to continuing the streak of a score or less victory or loss. Seriously. At the start of the 4th quarter Harbs should send him to the locker room and let Mickey Mouse call the plays, or the water boy, anyone else. 

[ravensdfan]

11 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Didn't he have a completion to Waller too on 3rd down that almost went for a 1st?

I believe you are correct sir.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

4 hours ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Good win today, much needed.

- Hate the PREVENT defense

- Our Dlineman have better hands than our Dbacks

- Our 3rd down throw the ball 4 yards short of the sticks needs to seriously improve

- Wish we could play the Squeelers all the time, because the intensity and determination to win was the best i have seen all year

 

I'll have to go back and watch but I don't think we went into "prevent" or anything resembling it. 

I feel like this is a blanket statement fans use when a team suddenly gives up yards/pts at the end of a game. 

I think Ben just took over, caught us in personnel where he felt he had good match ups, ran a fast hurry up offense to keep that group on the field and took advantage. 

He made 3-4 amazing throws down the stretch that were nowhere to be found earlier. Bens a gamer and is going to come alive eventually. And they have this guy Antonio Brown who's pretty good too. 

Of course, it's a little bit human nature and common sense when you're up 21-0 to keep things in front of you, and play the boundaries tighter than the middle of the field bc the clock is your best friend at that point... but I didn't see us doing anything drastically different. 

If we make an error in coverage that goes for a big completion - that's not prevent. 

If Ben fits an incredible throw into a really tight window for a big completion - that doesn't make it prevent. 

Yea there's an argument that placing an emphasis on keeping everything in front of you allows them to make a couple easier completions that got them rolling... but we weren't dropping 15-20 yds off, only rushing 2-3 and playing 3 deep safeties or anything like that. 

They got on a roll, ran hurry up, and we went 3 and out... guys got tired, they had good match ups, and they executed some great throws and catches. Plain and simple. 

[FoxRox75]

It was an ugly win again, but I'll take it. Always happy to see the Ravens beat the Steelers; let's hope we can build from this and get better.

[ravensdfan]

6 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I'll have to go back and watch but I don't think we went into "prevent" or anything resembling it. 

I feel like this is a blanket statement fans use when a team suddenly gives up yards/pts at the end of a game. 

I think Ben just took over, caught us in personnel where he felt he had good match ups, ran a fast hurry up offense to keep that group on the field and took advantage. 

He made 3-4 amazing throws down the stretch that were nowhere to be found earlier. Bens a gamer and is going to come alive eventually. And they have this guy Antonio Brown who's pretty good too. 

Of course, it's a little bit human nature and common sense when you're up 21-0 to keep things in front of you, and play the boundaries tighter than the middle of the field bc the clock is your best friend at that point... but I didn't see us doing anything drastically different. 

If we make an error in coverage that goes for a big completion - that's not prevent. 

If Ben fits an incredible throw into a really tight window for a big completion - that doesn't make it prevent. 

Yea there's an argument that placing an emphasis on keeping everything in front of you allows them to make a couple easier completions that got them rolling... but we weren't dropping 15-20 yds off, only rushing 2-3 and playing 3 deep safeties or anything like that. 

They got on a roll, ran hurry up, and we went 3 and out... guys got tired, they had good match ups, and they executed some great throws and catches. Plain and simple. 

210 yds in the 4th quarter is a problem. One that has plagued us since Pees got here. Call it whatever you like, Pees' 4th quarter brand of D is pathetic.

Might add with 5 mins left, minus a poor throw from Ben, the would have had a TD and been one score closer with all the time in the world to tie it.

Edited November 7, 2016 by ravensdfan

[terrynjulia03]

1 minute ago, ravensdfan said:

210 yds in the 4th quarter is a problem. One that has plagued us since Pees got here. Call it whatever you like, Pees' 4th quarter brand of D is pathetic.

Preach!!!!  Dude is pathetic in the 4th quarter. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

210 yds in the 4th quarter is a problem. One that has plagued us since Pees got here. Call it whatever you like, Pees' 4th quarter brand of D is pathetic.

Until someone can point to anything that was done differently schematically or from a play calling perspective - its not Pees brand of 4th quarter D. 

It's players executing or us not executing like we did the first 3. 

I mean what would you say if the mix of play calling was identical to the first 3 quarters and we ran the same defensive looks against those same offensive packages? 

I cant confirm that was the case today... but when this same topic came up after the Browns and Jags games when our D looked great for most of the game and then kinda fell apart at the end - we looked at it and nothing really changed from a scheme, tendency or play calling perspective. 

They made plays and we didn't. 

Plus, I think you'd notice league wide... when teams need to score at the ends of games they go into hurry up and more often than not tend to move the ball a lot better. 

When a teams running hurry up, a DC can only do so much. At that point you're really depending on your players, their film study and experience to diagnose the play, get each other lined up and make a play. Tough for the DC to do much when there's 10 seconds from the end of one play to the next snap. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

9 minutes ago, terrynjulia03 said:

Preach!!!!  Dude is pathetic in the 4th quarter. 

What was pathetic that he did?

what did he change in the 4th qtr? What was he doing that worked in the first 3 that he abandoned in the 4th?

 

[terrynjulia03]

10 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

What was pathetic that he did?

what did he change in the 4th qtr? What was he doing that worked in the first 3 that he abandoned in the 4th?

 

For one he brought far less pressure. And our DBs played much farther off. I'll have to rewatch the short clips game again when Sunday ticket makes it available to give any kind of percentage or exactly what he did different. 

[terrynjulia03]

There was a stat, albeit from 2 years ago where the majority of our sacks, pressures, picks, along with least yards gained ALL came when we brought 5 rushers. Sacks and picks were second when we brought 6, while bringing 4 was the 2nd best in yards gained and pressures. For some reason. In any case that year do you remember the percentage of times we rushed 5 in the 4th quarter? 8%!!!!  Just 8% of the time did we bring our most effective defense in the 4th quarter. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

5 minutes ago, terrynjulia03 said:

For one he brought far less pressure. And our DBs played much farther off. I'll have to rewatch the short clips game again when Sunday ticket makes it available to give any kind of percentage or exactly what he did different. 

We barely got pressure all game. We blitzed sparingly, so rushing 3-4 guys was exactly what he did all game. 

And the DBs decide how far off the line they start their drop. No defensive play call indicates press at the line or drop 10 yds. 

Thats a decision each individual DB makes based on his match up and the WR alignment. 

Nothing at all to do with Pees. 

[sflegend89]

This was a sink or swim game for the team. Ugly or not this win put life back into the season. 

Had we lost this game, against Pittsburgh of all teams I think it would've been the straw that broke the camel's back. Confidence and self belief is so important for a winning enviornment, the season was essentially on the line for that very reason and we got the job done.

 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

3 minutes ago, terrynjulia03 said:

There was a stat, albeit from 2 years ago where the majority of our sacks, pressures, picks, along with least yards gained ALL came when we brought 5 rushers. Sacks and picks were second when we brought 6, while bringing 4 was the 2nd best in yards gained and pressures. For some reason. In any case that year do you remember the percentage of times we rushed 5 in the 4th quarter? 8%!!!!  Just 8% of the time did we bring our most effective defense in the 4th quarter. 

Thats skewed to begin with bc you typically bring extra guys in situations that call for it. 3rd and longs or something you've seen on tape where theyre vulnerable to it. 

So of course, on 3rd and long and pressure situations like that where you're trying to convert you're going to be more susceptible to turnovers. 

Plus you rush 3-4 a majority of the time so averages are going to bring those numbers down. 

If you think the answer is to rush 5-6 guys against Big Ben and only have 4-5 guys in coverage when you're trying to protect a lead - I don't know what to tell you. Have fun with that, but be prepared to eat your words when they start scoring in one play instead of 10. 

Plus your point was he called a great game for 3 quarters and then sucked in the 4th. 

We rushed 3-4 a majority of the time the first 3 quarters. So if it was great then, why did it suck in the 4th?

your claim is he changed things and it sucked. But now you're saying you want him to call the game differently in the 4th and blitz more. 

So which is it?

Does he not blitz enough and we just got lucky for 3 quarters? Or do you want him to deviate from what's worked for 3 quarters and do something different in the 4th?

Or in the 10 seconds between plays during the hurry up should he be relaying to Mosley how far off each CB should line up, so he can in turn tell the CBs so then no one is ready for the play?

Or I guess magically he should get the play call in, dial up a blitz, and tell how many yds off each CB should line up with enough time for Mosley to interpret that to the entire D. Sounds feasible in less than 10 seconds. 

 

Look - it sucks having a nail biter. It sucks giving up 14 pts when we've shut them out all game. 

But it's not as simple as "ahhh stupid Pees and his prevent 4th quarters."

[Tornado700]

C'mon man, we have to stop giving these games away in the 4th quarter.

[sharkh20]

Defense just needs to not drop into that cover 2 zone give the entire middle of the field scheme at the end and we get that shut out.  Amazing job by the players on defense all game.  Scheme change, not really on the players.

 

Offense was yucky.  We need to get out of this semi option run scheme with a non runner QB.  It is a bit silly and makes it harder for both the QB and the RB.  Just go back to the good old I formation.  It's a simple scheme for a simple minded offense.  We are also one of the few teams with a FB which is perfect.  Run it up the gut.  That is what is in the Raven's blood.  Get em' good up the middle with runs and then play action.  Every time we tried to do an option run that started laterally, we lost 2-3 yards.  Always on second down and 10 to make it 3rd and long.

 

Great Job on special teams all around.  Hester wasn't pretty but got the job done with no big mishaps.  Not to mention he had to field about 600 Pittsburgh punts today.  Punt block was awesome.  Blocker got juked so bad he decided he failed and just ran up the field.  

Edited November 7, 2016 by sharkh20

[kjbmore]

Good - special teams all facets - didn't give up any big returns, the blocked punt, few nice returns from Hester - can anybody comment on the sun at the stadium - Hester lets s lot of punts go - thought it may have something to do with it, Monday night game next, so well see if still happening 

run defense was awesome, not sure why they kept trying to run on us, when our secondary has been pretty susceptible - anyway really looking forward to seeing our run d go up against the cowboys

judons sack!!

the bad - offense, oline, play calling on 3rd down, I would rather we have shots downfield and live with results than continually throw short of the markers - I specifically remember a 3rd down a couple games back - we actually threw past the markers and we received a pass interference, at least give ourselves a chance and put some pressure on other teams secondaries - we have so much speed, send it at people, it's not like we've got all these shifty guys just making people miss - we've got speed - play to our strengths

[reed20]

Pees always retreats to prevent instead of sticking with man coverage. 

[Sami84]

10 hours ago, ravens rule said:

Can Joe stop fading away every time there's pressure. Also how can he not see when the other team is clearly bringing the heat. I don't think Joe processes information well. In fact, I remember back a couple years ago Kubiak said he had to scale back the playbook because it was too much for Joe to handle. 

 

lol yeah i remember that..

Joe's joe..he's awful but sometimes you have to find ways of winning with bad QB"s..

 

[Tru11]

if you score enough point or at least pick up first downs and burn time you wont be in a position to give up a lead.

this game should have been a blow out with back ups playing going into the 4th....

[redrum52]

Did you people even watch the 4th q?  he sent pressure and like @Tru11 said, if the offense wasn't so inept it wouldn't even have come to this.  outside of the Wallace td what did the offense really do?  I'll wait...

 

A poster put it perfectly.  why does the offense waste more time in  hurry up than when they're trying to milk the clock?

[nextgen_RavensFan]

Guys, that was my Superbowl this year and what a gift. Our Defense is dominant, special teams played a very good game and the offense did not bleed enough to hurt itself. What a game. Love to see the Steelers leave the field with the Loss. 

 

A couple scary moments like when Flacco slid lol. I think it may take an entire season to get the old Joe back. He just is not as sharp as he usually is and is like he cannot feel pocket pressure from the backside at all. He will be back in form soon though.

 

Was that onside kick (Jig) awesome or what.. 

[jazz1988]

CJ Mosley was great in coverage that guy may end up with 7 interceptions or something before the season ends.

[Desert]

The defensive playbook that worked for 3 1/2 quarters was abandoned? WHY?

I need to have this explained to me.

Desert

[DomMcRaven]

51 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

CJ Mosley was great in coverage that guy may end up with 7 interceptions or something before the season ends.

Providing that he doesn't drop INTs like he dropped one yesterday. 

[redrum52]

1 minute ago, Desert said:

The defensive playbook that worked for 3 1/2 quarters was abandoned? WHY?

I need to have this explained to me.

Desert

Tell me what he did different?  cause I could tell you what I saw...

[Willbacker]

5 hours ago, sharkh20 said:

Defense just needs to not drop into that cover 2 zone give the entire middle of the field scheme at the end and we get that shut out.  Amazing job by the players on defense all game.  Scheme change, not really on the players.

 

Offense was yucky.  We need to get out of this semi option run scheme with a non runner QB.  It is a bit silly and makes it harder for both the QB and the RB.  Just go back to the good old I formation.  It's a simple scheme for a simple minded offense.  We are also one of the few teams with a FB which is perfect.  Run it up the gut.  That is what is in the Raven's blood.  Get em' good up the middle with runs and then play action.  Every time we tried to do an option run that started laterally, we lost 2-3 yards.  Always on second down and 10 to make it 3rd and long.

 

Great Job on special teams all around.  Hester wasn't pretty but got the job done with no big mishaps.  Not to mention he had to field about 600 Pittsburgh punts today.  Punt block was awesome.  Blocker got juked so bad he decided he failed and just ran up the field.  

You're spot on about the running game. Seems like we do terrible running the ball out of shotgun. Just doesn't seem to be enough of a headstart for the runner. Go to the I with possible FB motion lining up on the edge to create different looks or if you want to spread them out just line more people on the outside plus playaction works a lot better lining up behind center imo.

In other things Tavon Young has definitely wrapped up the other CB position. Having CJ Mosley back shows just how much he meant to our defense.

[Willbacker]

21 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

Tell me what he did different?  cause I could tell you what I saw...

He played the deeper drops keep play in front game.

[jimmypowder]

Our D played great but can we please hold on to some easy interceptions?? 

Webb,Weddle,Mosley all should have had picks. 

We should have picked Ben off 4 times in this game. 

Edited November 7, 2016 by jimmypowder

[BmoreBird22]

As far as the above goes on Pees, one thing I noticed was a ton of single high safety looks. Weddle was mostly in the box or in the slot with Webb playing deep. The Ravens crowded the LoS and basically said, "Beat us deep."

Eventually, a team is going to figure it out because Pees did not stray from that. The Ravens sold out to stop Bell and often rotated bracket coverage on Brown, but they were willing to give up the deep portions of the field.

And I think part of it is people's expectations. Defense doesn't give up a third down until five minutes until the fourth. No one reasonably expects that to keep up, but it just makes it look worse when it happens a few times in the fourth and not in the first three.

Also, the Ravens really need a consistent edge rusher because a lot of Ben's big fourth quarter shots came from busted plays where interior pressure collapsed the pocket, but outside rushers were no where to be found.

[VermontRaven]

10 hours ago, jboy19 said:

The Good: The Defense held their own. Kept Pittsburgh out of the game until the 4th Q. Especially impressed with Tavon Young despite a few bad coverages. The receivers seemed to play better. 

The Bad: The offense really struggled. They didnt do very much. The OL seemed rusty, Joe seemed uncomfortable. Nothing really got going for them. 

The Ugly: Dat Onside Kick. Too much James Hurst on the field. 

While you can debate personnel groups, I loved the idea of bringing in an extra lineman to "protect Joe at all cost"  Maybe Hurst is the best man for the job in that situation, rather than moving Lewis or Yanda around and bringing in Urschel. (Jensen and Ducasse were inactive so those were the only options with an extra lineman)