Week 9: The Good, Bad and Ugly vent thread

[terrynjulia03]

18 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

Haven't reviewed the tape yet but, Harbs said it was the Tampa 2 we went into.

The Tampa 2 is nearly the same at its base to the Cover 2, except Mosley drops back to cover the center of the field. But when looking at the game again he was already backed out to the edge of the box. In the 4th he was almost never even in the camera picture or at the far edge. Regardless. It's further proves that we changed our D in the 4th. 

[Sami84]

7 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

 

 

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, ravens rule said:

Are we sure Pitta is good anymore ? 

I dont think so. He seems to be a shadow of the player he was. btw i want maxx williams back on this team if hes recovered. this guy has talent the problem is that joe never looked for him. Even when pitta is not open he looks for him. He never really gave maxx a chance. 

[terrynjulia03]

4 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Thank you for taking the time to actually point to something factual that we can discuss - aside from the usual "Pees and his prevent."

To the overall point though... The Steelers stuck with the run a majority of the game... up until we scored off the blocked punt. After that they pretty much abandoned it which seems to correlate with the change to more of deep cover 2. 

To me, that's not Pees getting conservative... rather adjusting to what they were doing. They abandoned the run at that point so why continue to stack the box? Doing so would've exposed us more to the deep throws down the seam. 

They started attacking deeper down the field so we dropped the LBs and Safeties to account for the offensive shift. Take away the deep, especially outside throws and force everything inside, underneath. 

Ben made a couple spectacular throws in tight windows for chunk plays. Those you just have to tip your hat. I expect a great QB to make a handful of throws like that in a game... just so happened Big Ben saved all of his for the final 2 drives. 

Honestly id probably have more of a problem if Pees didn't make that adjustment once they abandoned the run. I don't see that as a conservative, prevent scheme to ride the game out.... but just a schematic adjustment to how their offensive game plan changed. 

Id expect he would've done the same in the beginning of the 2nd qtr had they abandoned the run and started atttacking the deep thirds and seams. 

Oh we can agree that it def wasn't a Prevent. For one all our LBs we're still on the field. Lol. 

As for the Steelers getting more aggressive and the change being made to counter act. Agree to disagree. We went into that and they were still trying to run the ball. Key note, Bell gaining 5, 8 and 4 yards on different plays only one of which was a delay. 

In any case, most teams try and protect their lead and thus the other team gains yards. Anyone who watches more than just the Ravens knows this. The problem is either Pees going to it too early, or a flat lack of production. Like has been stated we're going on what 23 games decided by 1 score or less, and how many did we have 2 or 3 score leads? Hell we can even go back to the SB, since everyone remembers that. We damn near Crap the bed and lost after absolutely dominating them for 3 quarters, embarrassing so even. So SOMETHING is broken. No other team has this many ugh nail biters when clearly dominating another team even when they go into their hang onto the lead mode of whatever formula. NE under Pees had the same problem, well except Brady would just put up 50 damn points so it was moot. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

16 minutes ago, terrynjulia03 said:

Oh we can agree that it def wasn't a Prevent. For one all our LBs we're still on the field. Lol. 

As for the Steelers getting more aggressive and the change being made to counter act. Agree to disagree. We went into that and they were still trying to run the ball. Key note, Bell gaining 5, 8 and 4 yards on different plays only one of which was a delay. 

In any case, most teams try and protect their lead and thus the other team gains yards. Anyone who watches more than just the Ravens knows this. The problem is either Pees going to it too early, or a flat lack of production. Like has been stated we're going on what 23 games decided by 1 score or less, and how many did we have 2 or 3 score leads? Hell we can even go back to the SB, since everyone remembers that. We damn near Crap the bed and lost after absolutely dominating them for 3 quarters, embarrassing so even. So SOMETHING is broken. No other team has this many ugh nail biters when clearly dominating another team even when they go into their hang onto the lead mode of whatever formula. NE under Pees had the same problem, well except Brady would just put up 50 damn points so it was moot. 

Well I also don't think the DC can account for the offense gaining a total of 42 yds in the 2nd half. 

Quite frankly, if the offense picks up even a 1st down or 2 and extends a drive... shoot just flips the field position a bit - I bet the game plan works perfectly. 

Maybe they get a couple chunk plays... probably still score the 1 TD. 

But if the offense simply forced the Steelers to drive 70-80 yds instead of only 50 they run out of time bc we kept them in bounds and tackled immediately. We limited YAC and most of their chunk passes were tightly contested throws that Ben squeezed in. 

 

I mean I guess there's an argument that the D shouldn't count on the offense for anything... but the honest truth is if the D has to play shutout, 100% on 3rd downs were not going to win many games. 

One decent drive by the offense and the D playing the same exact way and we're talking about a 21-0 or 21-7 game that we're comfortably kneeling down with over a minute left or they're desperately heaving 40 yard bombs at the end zone with 20 seconds left and still needing 2 TDs. 

I think you have to call the game doing what's best by the numbers. And you can't play scared that your offense won't hold its end of the bargain. 

I forget where it was, but it was an article debunking the "prevent" defense... and it revealed that rushing 3-4 and playing an off zone was the most effective way to win a game when leading by 2 or more possessions with under "x" amount of time left (I forget the exact criteria).

Even if there is some truth to your opinion - I'm not going to blame Pees and the D who are the biggest reason we're 4-4 and in 1st when we're not even having these conversations if the offense could get a freaking 1st down. 

[Tank 92]

40 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I don't think it's about the points. 

Its about the offense maybe getting a first down. Flipping field position. Something. 

Instead of quick 3 and outs where we punt from our own 5 and expect the D to go back on the field with 2 minutes rest and defend a 50 yd field. 

They did it for 3.5 quarters. But with 42 total yards of offense in the 2nd half the pressure was solely on the defense to hold the game. It's tough to stay a step ahead for that long... and if you give Big Ben 5 redo's he'Il eventually throw some strikes. 

I think if our offense could put together a 4 minute clock chewing drive... even if they don't score.. but just pick up 3 or 4 first downs - the defense doesn't have to hold off a desperate, hurry up offensive barrage 5 straight drives. Cut that down to giving them only 2-3 drives and I bet the D does the job a lot more comfortably. 

Totally agree, any length of possession may have helped. The three and outs were pretty pitiful. It's just that giving up the easy scores late in games has become a pattern that cannot be solely attributed to the offense not helping. We've also given up easy TDs late in other games right after lengthy drives by the offense. We need to learn to finish games, on both sides of the ball. 

[ravensdfan]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The offense had two three and outs for a total of 4 yards and 2:40 on the two drives before the final :40 seconds. So, in the final 15 minutes, the offense literally managed to take off only 3:20. That's unacceptable.

Yes that is unacceptable by the offense. Not one person is making any claim that the offense is helping them out. No one. Believing the defense should not cave every time the 4th quarter rolls around does not mean one is advocating that the offense did their job.

210 yards. In the 4th. In no realm of existence is that acceptable for your defense to give up in one quarter. Nowhere, no how, no matter what excuse you use.

Again, as I've stated before, using the soft zone is not the issue for me overall but Pees goes there way too early, which allows teams to turn what should be a comfortable lead into a nail biter or even a loss.

I see Washington some, but not that often. Usually I see them twice a year when they play the Eagles since I get those games here.

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, ravensdfan said:

Yes that is unacceptable by the offense. Not one person is making any claim that the offense is helping them out. No one. Believing the defense should not cave every time the 4th quarter rolls around does not mean one is advocating that the offense did their job.

210 yards. In the 4th. In no realm of existence is that acceptable for your defense to give up in one quarter. Nowhere, no how, no matter what excuse you use.

Again, as I've stated before, using the soft zone is not the issue for me overall but Pees goes there way too early, which allows teams to turn what should be a comfortable lead into a nail biter or even a loss.

I see Washington some, but not that often. Usually I see them twice a year when they play the Eagles since I get those games here.

How long did Pittsburgh's three drives take in the fourth quarter? Conversely, how long were the Ravens drives? 

The reason I ask about Washington is because I know for a fact that they are a more traditional zone coverage team, so watch them to get an idea of their drops and depths in zones. Carolina would be another. Not sure if Tampa still runs mostly zone without Lovie. I'm trying to think of others, but try watching their corners.

[ravensdfan]

3 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

 

While the Ravens defense was holding the Steelers offense to 0 pts for 3 1/2 quarters (45 mins) what did the Ravens offense do...besides Wallace's TD...in those quarters and in that enormous amount of time to further extend the lead?  

 

So if the offense had actually been responsible for those 21 pts only THEN you expect the defense to do their job in the 4th quarter?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Btw I want to give a shoutout to @terrynjulia03 on this conversation. 

We disagreed entirely on something. A similar debate I've seen many times on these boards... and when called to provide facts to back the opinion -- get this -- actually did, and it led to an intelligent back and forth. 

And while we probably don't still I agree, I think we at least established some middle ground. Both conceded a couple things we were inaccurate about and proved things we were accurate about. 

And it was pleasant, respectful and maintained the essence of being a Ravens fan the entire time. 

A little lame I know. But my gosh was this refreshing. Just thought I'd point out, that even a mindless, kool aid drinking homer like me can have a respectful, intelligent debate with a real, rational fan..... that is when said fan actually supports their opinion with things like facts, anecdotal evidence, and spends the time to put together intelligent, coherent thoughts. 

I know this isn't all that rare among a certain group, but lately it's been hard to find... 

Thank you for sticking with your guns and presenting something we actually discuss, debate and learn something from. 

[Militant X 1]

5 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

So if the offense had actually been responsible for those 21 pts only THEN you expect the defense to do their job in the 4th quarter?

Lol!  You can try to flip this any way you want but you still haven't answered this question ravensdfan....

While the Ravens defense was holding the Steelers offense to 0 pts for 3 1/2 quarters (45 mins) what did the Ravens offense do...besides Wallace's TD...in those quarters and in that enormous amount of time to further extend the lead?  

[ravensdfan]

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

How long did Pittsburgh's three drives take in the fourth quarter? Conversely, how long were the Ravens drives? 

The reason I ask about Washington is because I know for a fact that they are a more traditional zone coverage team, so watch them to get an idea of their drops and depths in zones. Carolina would be another. Not sure if Tampa still runs mostly zone without Lovie. I'm trying to think of others, but try watching their corners.

Are you claiming TOP was a factor in the defense's collapse? Because even with the offense's lackluster effort, we won TOP. At the end of the 3rd quarter the offense had a possession lasting 3:48. Then comes the blocked punt - then the defense promptly allows a 4:58 drive for a TD by Pitt. If they don't get themselves off the field, that isn't on the offense.

 

[ravensdfan]

3 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

Lol!  You can try to flip this any way you want but you still haven't answered this question ravensdfan....

While the Ravens defense was holding the Steelers offense to 0 pts for 3 1/2 quarters (45 mins) what did the Ravens offense do...besides Wallace's TD...in those quarters and in that enormous amount of time to further extend the lead?  

Yes I did. If the defense is given a 21 pt lead, no matter HOW they have that lead - it should not come down to being a nail biter.  Especially since we were winning TOP at that point, and won TOP overall so the same old "oh poor defense was tired" argument doesn't fly. So now, what you're saying, is that the defense is only required to do their job in the 4th if the offense has been the one responsible for every single point?

[terrynjulia03]

10 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Btw I want to give a shoutout to @terrynjulia03 on this conversation. 

We disagreed entirely on something. A similar debate I've seen many times on these boards... and when called to provide facts to back the opinion -- get this -- actually did, and it led to an intelligent back and forth. 

And while we probably don't still I agree, I think we at least established some middle ground. Both conceded a couple things we were inaccurate about and proved things we were accurate about. 

And it was pleasant, respectful and maintained the essence of being a Ravens fan the entire time. 

A little lame I know. But my gosh was this refreshing. Just thought I'd point out, that even a mindless, kool aid drinking homer like me can have a respectful, intelligent debate with a real, rational fan..... that is when said fan actually supports their opinion with things like facts, anecdotal evidence, and spends the time to put together intelligent, coherent thoughts. 

I know this isn't all that rare among a certain group, but lately it's been hard to find... 

Thank you for sticking with your guns and presenting something we actually discuss, debate and learn something from. 

Lol. Hey we all get passionate about the Ravens and tempers flare. In the end we all just want our team to win. Well most of us on here anyway, I think there's a few get off my lawners but that's OK too. Props. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

9 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

Yes that is unacceptable by the offense. Not one person is making any claim that the offense is helping them out. No one. Believing the defense should not cave every time the 4th quarter rolls around does not mean one is advocating that the offense did their job.

210 yards. In the 4th. In no realm of existence is that acceptable for your defense to give up in one quarter. Nowhere, no how, no matter what excuse you use.

Again, as I've stated before, using the soft zone is not the issue for me overall but Pees goes there way too early, which allows teams to turn what should be a comfortable lead into a nail biter or even a loss.

I see Washington some, but not that often. Usually I see them twice a year when they play the Eagles since I get those games here.

Right but if the offense puts up one decent, just field flipping drive..

Pitt has to go, say 70 yds instead of 45-50. So the first scoring drive makes them convert one more big play, or a series of smaller plays... using up an additional 1-2 min of game time and maybe use a TO or 2 earlier. 

Then they're having to kick 2 onsides kicks to beat us, or having to heave 30-40 yd passes at the end zone to score the 2nd TD, kick an onsides kick and THEN score a 3rd TD in under 20 seconds or less. 

The D and special teams gave the Offense two short fields to start the game with which they came away with 0 pts. Score either of those and it's not a nail biter. 

ST scores a TD. We force 2 TOs which the offense did nothing with. They forced 10 3 and outs to give the offense every chance to get in rhythm with short fields. Did nothing. 

Shut em out for 3.5 qtr where the offense contributed one play. 

 

So yes. I think it's fair to expect the offense to pull their weight and get a 1st down so the D can play a philosophy that kills a game easily as opposed to having to play aggressively on the edge where any mistake changes the game completely. 

If the offense has 1 decent drive... the D philosophy forces Pitt to use more time than is available to win the game. They shouldn't have to try and defend the entire field the entire game... especially after not just holding Pitt scoreless but also gift wrapping the offense what should have been anywhere from 12-28 pts that they couldn't convert into even 1. 

Offense does any of those things and this isn't a nail biter. 

[terrynjulia03]

24 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Well I also don't think the DC can account for the offense gaining a total of 42 yds in the 2nd half. 

Quite frankly, if the offense picks up even a 1st down or 2 and extends a drive... shoot just flips the field position a bit - I bet the game plan works perfectly. 

Maybe they get a couple chunk plays... probably still score the 1 TD. 

But if the offense simply forced the Steelers to drive 70-80 yds instead of only 50 they run out of time bc we kept them in bounds and tackled immediately. We limited YAC and most of their chunk passes were tightly contested throws that Ben squeezed in. 

 

I mean I guess there's an argument that the D shouldn't count on the offense for anything... but the honest truth is if the D has to play shutout, 100% on 3rd downs were not going to win many games. 

One decent drive by the offense and the D playing the same exact way and we're talking about a 21-0 or 21-7 game that we're comfortably kneeling down with over a minute left or they're desperately heaving 40 yard bombs at the end zone with 20 seconds left and still needing 2 TDs. 

I think you have to call the game doing what's best by the numbers. And you can't play scared that your offense won't hold its end of the bargain. 

I forget where it was, but it was an article debunking the "prevent" defense... and it revealed that rushing 3-4 and playing an off zone was the most effective way to win a game when leading by 2 or more possessions with under "x" amount of time left (I forget the exact criteria).

Even if there is some truth to your opinion - I'm not going to blame Pees and the D who are the biggest reason we're 4-4 and in 1st when we're not even having these conversations if the offense could get a freaking 1st down. 

Agreed. The offense accounted for 12 points this game. Subtract the D handing them already in FG range, and ST adding another 6 and we lose. But that's a whole different discussion. Hopefully Yanda and Stanley shaking rust off in a actual game and the line regelling we'll start seeing different results. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

8 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

Are you claiming TOP was a factor in the defense's collapse? Because even with the offense's lackluster effort, we won TOP. At the end of the 3rd quarter the offense had a possession lasting 3:48. Then comes the blocked punt - then the defense promptly allows a 4:58 drive for a TD by Pitt. If they don't get themselves off the field, that isn't on the offense.

 

The offense contributed 1 play basically. 

We won TOP overall bc the D forced 10 THREE AND OUTS. 

We had a 21 pt lead bc of ST and the D gift wrapping the offense great field position all game. Started our first 2 drives at the 40 or better and came away with 0 points. 

The D was 90% the reason we had 21 AND that Pitt had 0... but when Pitt gets hot we shouldn't expect the Offense to pitch in, even in the slightest?? We're not asking for a 7 minute game sealing TD drive. Just a first down, so all the D has to do is force Pitt to take time. 

Score or don't score... wouldn't matter if the O moved the ball 10-20 yds on one drive in the 4th. 

[terrynjulia03]

Honestly yeah. You hand Bellicheck and Brady the type of field position we had and they could trot out the McDs fry guy and the BK burger flipper along with actually Wendy and they'd put up 40 points. Sad but true and even watching their games over and over I can't figure out how in the world they do it. They blew out teams even without Brady or Gronk. I'm almost convinced that Bellicheck is the anti christ or something. 

[Militant X 1]

13 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

Yes I did. If the defense is given a 21 pt lead, no matter HOW they have that lead - it should not come down to being a nail biter.  Especially since we were winning TOP at that point, and won TOP overall so the same old "oh poor defense was tired" argument doesn't fly. So now, what you're saying, is that the defense is only required to do their job in the 4th if the offense has been the one responsible for every single point?

No!  What I have clearly said is that to me, this piss poor offense should be doing their job to score as many points as they possibly can WHEN their defense is neutralizing their opponent's offense for 3 1/2 quarters by forcing multiple consecutive punts.  To me, that's multiple opportunities for the Ravens offense to score and "extend" the lead and they habitually can't seem to do that.

3 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

The offense contributed 1 play basically. 

We won TOP overall bc the D forced 10 THREE AND OUTS. 

We had a 21 pt lead bc of ST and the D gift wrapping the offense great field position all game. Started our first 2 drives at the 40 or better and came away with 0 points. 

The D was 90% the reason we had 21 AND that Pitt had 0... but when Pitt gets hot we shouldn't expect the Offense to pitch in, even in the slightest?? We're not asking for a 7 minute game sealing TD drive. Just a first down, so all the D has to do is force Pitt to take time. 

Score or don't score... wouldn't matter if the O moved the ball 10-20 yds on one drive in the 4th. 

We should but they can't produce!

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

6 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

No!  What I have clearly said is that to me, this piss poor offense should be doing their job to score as many points as they possibly can WHEN their defense is neutralizing their opponent's offense for 3 1/2 quarters by forcing multiple consecutive punts.  To me, that's multiple opportunities for the Ravens offense to score and "extend" the lead and they habitually can't seem to do that.

We should but they can't produce!

Right and that's the problem. 

First and foremost some are acting like the Defense DIDNT protect a 21 pt lead. But they did. They did the job. 

Since the argument is that fans want them to protect it more comfortably... im simply stating (and I think you are too) that it's FAR more reasonable to expect the offense to get a 1st down or 2 than to expect the D play flawless for a full game. 

If the offense gets 1 or 2 first downs... that's easily 2 minutes off the game clock. Just getting 20 yds. 

And there go the 2 minutes that Pitt used to score the 2nd TD, plus they start with worse field position so would probably need even more time. 

 

So there's your comfy 21-7 drama free win. 

A lot more reasonable and easy for the offense to generate 20 or so yards than for the Defense to play 6 straight minutes of flawless play against one of the most explosive offenses in the league with a top 5 QB, too 2 WR and top 3 RB (and prob best pass catching back).

Edited November 8, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[ravensdfan]

3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Right but if the offense puts up one decent, just field flipping drive..

Pitt has to go, say 70 yds instead of 45-50. So the first scoring drive makes them convert one more big play, or a series of smaller plays... using up an additional 1-2 min of game time and maybe use a TO or 2 earlier. 

Then they're having to kick 2 onsides kicks to beat us, or having to heave 30-40 yd passes at the end zone to score the 2nd TD, kick an onsides kick and THEN score a 3rd TD in under 20 seconds or less. 

The D and special teams gave the Offense two short fields to start the game with which they came away with 0 pts. Score either of those and it's not a nail biter. 

ST scores a TD. We force 2 TOs which the offense did nothing with. They forced 10 3 and outs to give the offense every chance to get in rhythm with short fields. Did nothing. 

Shut em out for 3.5 qtr where the offense contributed one play. 

 

So yes. I think it's fair to expect the offense to pull their weight and get a 1st down so the D can play a philosophy that kills a game easily as opposed to having to play aggressively on the edge where any mistake changes the game completely. 

If the offense has 1 decent drive... the D philosophy forces Pitt to use more time than is available to win the game. They shouldn't have to try and defend the entire field the entire game... especially after not just holding Pitt scoreless but also gift wrapping the offense what should have been anywhere from 12-28 pts that they couldn't convert into even 1. 

Offense does any of those things and this isn't a nail biter. 

As I posted in response to another post - the offense had a 3:48 drive at the end of the 3rd quarter. Then the blocked punt happens taking 1:24. The defense promptly then allows the Steelers to take 4:58 for a TD which btw they had to go 75 yards to get.

 

Edited November 8, 2016 by ravensdfan
Deleted comment about the cat since the pic was deleted it was non-sensical & only left me looking cookoo.

[ravensdfan]

25 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

No!  What I have clearly said is that to me, this piss poor offense should be doing their job to score as many points as they possibly can WHEN their defense is neutralizing their opponent's offense for 3 1/2 quarters by forcing multiple consecutive punts.  To me, that's multiple opportunities for the Ravens offense to score and "extend" the lead and they habitually can't seem to do that.

We should but they can't produce!

But no one is making any claim the offense did their job in the slightest. All I am saying is that a 21 pt lead taken into the 4th quarter should not become a nail biter. A defense that has held for 3 quarters (and it was only 3 quarters, as they allowed the first TD drive in the beginning of the 4th) should not completely collapse because for apparently no other reason than it is the 4th quarter.

[BmoreBird22]

47 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

Are you claiming TOP was a factor in the defense's collapse? Because even with the offense's lackluster effort, we won TOP. At the end of the 3rd quarter the offense had a possession lasting 3:48. Then comes the blocked punt - then the defense promptly allows a 4:58 drive for a TD by Pitt. If they don't get themselves off the field, that isn't on the offense.

I'm suggesting that the offense in the fourth quarter couldn't bleed out the clock.

The longest drive of the game was just under six minutes to open the second half, which was a six play, 16 yard drive, which happened to be the drive that Flacco got injured and the drive that the Ravens also used up all :45 seconds to try to draw the Steelers offsides. They probably took full advantage of any runs or short dump offs to try to have Flacco return to the field.

Past that, they had four other drives that were 2:06 or less, most lasting around 1:30 or less.

Also, the lopsided TOP for the game was 100% due to the fact that the defense forced TEN three and outs. The Steelers literally did not convert a single third down until the fourth quarter. The offense was horribly inefficient at sustaining drives.

And no one cares that the Steelers scored a touchdown; what people care about is that the Steelers took five minutes beginning at 13:00 minutes left in the game. If the Ravens could have sustained a similar drive themselves, that leave the Steelers with about three minutes left, pretty much no chance of scoring two touchdowns to TIE it. 

[edthehead]

GOOD = we won

BAD= sorry people but Flacco

 ugly = offense, I say this as I am watching the bills move around,

can somebody please tell me the problem with our offense,

I am for norve turner coming here maybe he can come in now as our QB coach 

[BmoreBird22]

54 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

Yes I did. If the defense is given a 21 pt lead, no matter HOW they have that lead - it should not come down to being a nail biter.  Especially since we were winning TOP at that point, and won TOP overall so the same old "oh poor defense was tired" argument doesn't fly. So now, what you're saying, is that the defense is only required to do their job in the 4th if the offense has been the one responsible for every single point?

I also want to know how this was a nail biter, honestly.

The Steelers gave the Ravens the ball back with 3:06 left in the fourth quarter. They were down by two scores. Did anyone REALLY expect the Steelers to score two touchdowns in about two minutes, since that's how much time they'd have to work with after the Ravens drive, unless all three timeouts were used. It was never nearly as close as the score indicated and the Steelers really had no chance to win when they failed on downs.

But anyway, the Ravens managed to get -5 yards and run off a whole :56 seconds after the Steelers turned it over on downs. A single first down and we're seeing the clock go down past the two minute warning. A single first down and the Steelers probably don't even score again. Hell, even just getting 9 yards and the Steelers probably look at 80+ yards to drive down the field. Instead, the offense loses five yards and doesn't even get one minute off the clock.

[Militant X 1]

44 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Right and that's the problem. 

First and foremost some are acting like the Defense DIDNT protect a 21 pt lead. But they did. They did the job. 

Since the argument is that fans want them to protect it more comfortably... im simply stating (and I think you are too) that it's FAR more reasonable to expect the offense to get a 1st down or 2 than to expect the D play flawless for a full game. 

If the offense gets 1 or 2 first downs... that's easily 2 minutes off the game clock. Just getting 20 yds. 

And there go the 2 minutes that Pitt used to score the 2nd TD, plus they start with worse field position so would probably need even more time. 

 

So there's your comfy 21-7 drama free win. 

A lot more reasonable and easy for the offense to generate 20 or so yards than for the Defense to play 6 straight minutes of flawless play against one of the most explosive offenses in the league with a top 5 QB, too 2 WR and top 3 RB (and prob best pass catching back).

That is what I am saying just a little differently. 

[ravensdfan]

32 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I also want to know how this was a nail biter, honestly.

The Steelers gave the Ravens the ball back with 3:06 left in the fourth quarter. They were down by two scores. Did anyone REALLY expect the Steelers to score two touchdowns in about two minutes, since that's how much time they'd have to work with after the Ravens drive, unless all three timeouts were used. It was never nearly as close as the score indicated and the Steelers really had no chance to win when they failed on downs.

But anyway, the Ravens managed to get -5 yards and run off a whole :56 seconds after the Steelers turned it over on downs. A single first down and we're seeing the clock go down past the two minute warning. A single first down and the Steelers probably don't even score again. Hell, even just getting 9 yards and the Steelers probably look at 80+ yards to drive down the field. Instead, the offense loses five yards and doesn't even get one minute off the clock.

The defense allowed the Steelers down to the 17 yd line with 5 mins left. Big Ben is more himself they score there - he had an open man where he just missed the guy. Then a good defensive play that saved a TD. So you're correct that once they don't score there it isn't a nail biter - however, putting them into position to make that play (one Ben usually makes easily when himself) is an issue.

I don't even have any issue with the soft coverage that allows the 2nd TD because that is truly a garbage time score. But we began that stuff early in the 4th, gave them a TD and let them get into position for another that would have put the game within reach with 5 mins left on the clock.

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

The defense allowed the Steelers down to the 17 yd line with 5 mins left. Big Ben is more himself they score there - he had an open man where he just missed the guy. Then a good defensive play that saved a TD. So you're correct that once they don't score there it isn't a nail biter - however, putting them into position to make that play (one Ben usually makes easily when himself) is an issue.

I don't even have any issue with the soft coverage that allows the 2nd TD because that is truly a garbage time score. But we began that stuff early in the 4th, gave them a TD and let them get into position for another that would have put the game within reach with 5 mins left on the clock.

You need to hold the offense equally accountable for failing to run time off the clock effectively.

For as big as the TOP lead was in the first half (it was massively lopsided), it balanced out pretty well in the second half, largely due to a whole 3:20 or so being taken off the clock in the fourth quarter.

[ravensdfan]

59 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

You need to hold the offense equally accountable for failing to run time off the clock effectively.

For as big as the TOP lead was in the first half (it was massively lopsided), it balanced out pretty well in the second half, largely due to a whole 3:20 or so being taken off the clock in the fourth quarter.

What the offense did or didn't do has no bearing on us changing what was working defensively as soon as that scoreboard said 4th quarter and it nearly costing us. Zero reason to do that so early.

If you notice, I've not credited the offense one iota for anything positive in this game. That still does not change the fact that the defense had a 21 pt lead going into the 4th that was nearly squandered because Pees decided to change what was working way too early.

That is just fact.

I tried to lighten the mood with a pic of my cat tackling Steelers in the 4th quarter and it was deleted. So I just dont' care now. When did this place stop being fun?

Edited November 8, 2016 by ravensdfan

[Filmstudy]

5 hours ago, terrynjulia03 said:

Oh we can agree that it def wasn't a Prevent. For one all our LBs we're still on the field. Lol. 

There were 2 issues I'd point to that fueled the rally in Q4:

1. The defense was tired playing 34 plays in Q4.  That's especially tough for the pass rush.

2. The Ravens kept Orr (every snap) and McClellan (27 of 34 snaps) on the field for virtually the entirety of Q4.  Those are 2 big targets in zone that provide nothing to the pass rush (Mosely/Orr/McClellan had a combined 0 pressure events for the entire game).

Levine in the dime was the better choice and was rested.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Filmstudy

[arnie_uk]

5 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I also want to know how this was a nail biter, honestly.

The Steelers gave the Ravens the ball back with 3:06 left in the fourth quarter. They were down by two scores. Did anyone REALLY expect the Steelers to score two touchdowns in about two minutes, since that's how much time they'd have to work with after the Ravens drive, unless all three timeouts were used. It was never nearly as close as the score indicated and the Steelers really had no chance to win when they failed on downs.

But anyway, the Ravens managed to get -5 yards and run off a whole :56 seconds after the Steelers turned it over on downs. A single first down and we're seeing the clock go down past the two minute warning. A single first down and the Steelers probably don't even score again. Hell, even just getting 9 yards and the Steelers probably look at 80+ yards to drive down the field. Instead, the offense loses five yards and doesn't even get one minute off the clock.

Yes honestly. If they got that onside kick I fully expected them to go the 60 yards and tie the game. I have zero trust in our defense in the 4th qtr.

Even after arguably one of the greatest 3 qtrs I can remember seeing.

I don't know what it is, but even you have to admit that every since pees came, allowing the opposition to score at will in the 4th qtr has been a trend.