2017 DB Thread

[GrimCoconut]

I just read Jones officially declared for the draft. Not that it wasn't a forgone conclusion but still. I do wonder if Jones will go lower than people here expect since he's pretty light at 180 but he's 6-0 so unless he gains weight that's pretty light and it may drop him as a result. 

[pechillo]

there are so many damn good corners in this draft i'm convinced we draft one in the 2nd or 3rd. hoping King, Wilson, Jackson, Tabor, or White falls to 2nd

[Jacquouille]

2 hours ago, VermontRaven said:

Legit question for everyone that follows and tracks this stuff.  Where do you wee Iowa's Desmond King going in the draft?  Do you think this is someone the Ravens might target. 

I have not followed college football much this year.  I am a huge Iowa Hawkeyes fan, so obviously my opinion of King is probably inflated.  Curious as to what others out there think of him.  On the Outback Bowl broadcast, they said someone (not sure who) had him rated as the 7th ranked CB in the draft.  Any chance he could be around for Round 2 for us?

I'd say he goes 2nd round. Maybe he could slide in the first round if some team really feels good about him but this year he didn't answer questions and actually some arrose (about his straight line speed notably). Some see him as a S at the next level, but that would be a project.

We'll get a more precise answer at the Senior Bowl.

[zuilyas]

Him being 5'10" is the only reason as to why Corn Elder isn't projected as a 1st round pick. Imo, the best player and the MVP on Miami's team this year. Short but has smooth hips. Can turn and run with anyone. Shut down Isaiah Ford this year. Plenty of speed, as evidenced by him chasing down Dalvin Cook in the open field this year against FSU. Very physical, excellent tackler. Had some Denzel Perryman-like tackles against some players this year. Him and Adrian Colbert, for whatever reason, were the only 2 corners who could get off screens and stop the run, which is a very important skill to have. A much better player than Artie Burns was. Burns was stiff and was a height/weight/speed guy, and everyone knew it. Part of it had to do with Burns being at Miami during the Golden era, but despite the coaching staff's inadequacies, Elder still stood out. Is also a very capable returner. I think most people know about the Duke game last year, but he's returned punts prior to that. I think everyone knows about Kaaya and Njoku from Miami, but Elder and Stacy Coley (WR who has some minor character issues and mental lapses but is still a terrific player) is the most polished and complete player at his position among the Miami players entering the draft. I suppose Joseph Yearby goes in that category as well. He's just slow and not the biggest guy. I think Elder probably goes from rounds 2-3 because of his size.    

[Jacquouille]

4 hours ago, zuilyas said:

Him being 5'10" is the only reason as to why Corn Elder isn't projected as a 1st round pick. Imo, the best player and the MVP on Miami's team this year. Short but has smooth hips. Can turn and run with anyone. Shut down Isaiah Ford this year. Plenty of speed, as evidenced by him chasing down Dalvin Cook in the open field this year against FSU. Very physical, excellent tackler. Had some Denzel Perryman-like tackles against some players this year. Him and Adrian Colbert, for whatever reason, were the only 2 corners who could get off screens and stop the run, which is a very important skill to have. A much better player than Artie Burns was. Burns was stiff and was a height/weight/speed guy, and everyone knew it. Part of it had to do with Burns being at Miami during the Golden era, but despite the coaching staff's inadequacies, Elder still stood out. Is also a very capable returner. I think most people know about the Duke game last year, but he's returned punts prior to that. I think everyone knows about Kaaya and Njoku from Miami, but Elder and Stacy Coley (WR who has some minor character issues and mental lapses but is still a terrific player) is the most polished and complete player at his position among the Miami players entering the draft. I suppose Joseph Yearby goes in that category as well. He's just slow and not the biggest guy. I think Elder probably goes from rounds 2-3 because of his size.    

A guy I really like. Big time sleeper. He has a great IQ. However I'd like to see more of how he fares on 1on1 when he has to mirror the WR. I want to see the smooth hips that you're talking about.

[52520Andrew]

So how does everyone feel about Malik Hooker?

[Jacquouille]

10 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

So how does everyone feel about Malik Hooker?

The more I see the more I like. His range is just unreal.

[rmw10]

11 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

So how does everyone feel about Malik Hooker?

Who wouldn't want a Hooker?

[RaineV1]

Hooker wouldn't be my first choice with the first round pick, but I won't complain if we get him. We'd finally have a great, rangy center-fielder again. I like Weddle, but he's better when he's focused on one side or the other, or in the box. Hooker would really improve our secondary. Also, while his lack of experience is a bit troubling, the Ravens are in a good position to get him up to speed quickly with Weddle and Frazier coaching him up.

[52520Andrew]

37 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

The more I see the more I like. His range is just unreal.

Yeah he is one that has caught my eye although I haven't studied him too much

[ravefan52]

Hooker has some really special ability making plays on the ball. I think he'd make some mistakes while he's still learning the position (He's a first year starter, was behind Bell and Powell), but he'd make up for it with some incredible plays and turnovers. His potential is amazing. It'd be pretty hard to pass him up

[zuilyas]

11 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

A guy I really like. Big time sleeper. He has a great IQ. However I'd like to see more of how he fares on 1on1 when he has to mirror the WR. I want to see the smooth hips that you're talking about.

The past 3 years, during the "Golden years," Miami ran a 3-4 base defense that generated no pass rush whatsoever and the secondary was always dropping back in zone (kinda like how we lost to Pitt most recently in the last 1:30, ughhh). This year, the DBs played more man. Elder shut down Ford from VT and Rudolph from FSU (at least from what I can recall rudolph had 1 catch against Elder). Although, I don't think Rudolph is really all that great, which is probably me talking with some Miami bias, but I've never been that taken aback by him. His hip movement and flexibility will probably be more noticeable during workouts for the draft. 

[Jacquouille]

29 minutes ago, zuilyas said:

The past 3 years, during the "Golden years," Miami ran a 3-4 base defense that generated no pass rush whatsoever and the secondary was always dropping back in zone (kinda like how we lost to Pitt most recently in the last 1:30, ughhh). This year, the DBs played more man. Elder shut down Ford from VT and Rudolph from FSU (at least from what I can recall rudolph had 1 catch against Elder). Although, I don't think Rudolph is really all that great, which is probably me talking with some Miami bias, but I've never been that taken aback by him. His hip movement and flexibility will probably be more noticeable during workouts for the draft. 

Thanks for the insight, always appreciated, especially since I couldn't see a lot from Elder. 

I do like Rudolph though, he really has the savvy and the smoothness in his movements coupled with great hands. He completely abused William Jackson III in their bowl game (although that's not what stats will tell because poor QB play kept Rudolph from 2 50+yds TDs and gave WJ3 a pick).

[Sizzlebshu]

3 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

Hooker wouldn't be my first choice with the first round pick, but I won't complain if we get him. We'd finally have a great, rangy center-fielder again. I like Weddle, but he's better when he's focused on one side or the other, or in the box. Hooker would really improve our secondary. Also, while his lack of experience is a bit troubling, the Ravens are in a good position to get him up to speed quickly with Weddle and Frazier coaching him up.

 

So having two rangy center fielders would allow us to vary the coverages more and allow for pressure from every part of the field.

 

Sign me up 

[zuilyas]

12 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Thanks for the insight, always appreciated, especially since I couldn't see a lot from Elder. 

I do like Rudolph though, he really has the savvy and the smoothness in his movements coupled with great hands. He completely abused William Jackson III in their bowl game (although that's not what stats will tell because poor QB play kept Rudolph from 2 50+yds TDs and gave WJ3 a pick).

Of course, man. This is why I love the forums. You're on point with Rudolph, too. He is a pretty technically sound WR. Again, this is coming from a Miami fan, but I don't really see why Rudolph is projected as a 2nd round pick and Stacy Coley is being projected as a 5th round pick. They're similar in that they're both smooth and technically sound, but Coley is a better athlete who I think is also more versatile.

[zuilyas]

Ok, I kinda get the difference, but still lolol

[Jacquouille]

1 hour ago, zuilyas said:

Of course, man. This is why I love the forums. You're on point with Rudolph, too. He is a pretty technically sound WR. Again, this is coming from a Miami fan, but I don't really see why Rudolph is projected as a 2nd round pick and Stacy Coley is being projected as a 5th round pick. They're similar in that they're both smooth and technically sound, but Coley is a better athlete who I think is also more versatile.

Wait. Rudolph is not a 2nd rounder in my books and apart from Drafttek who are completely dumb I haven't seen him in any 2nd round. He was in the 4th in Miller's mock draft and I think that's where he should go, between 3rd and 5th. Coley is a different player, he's more lightning in a bottle with some nice moves but suspect hands. 

[Cillmatic]

2 hours ago, ravefan52 said:

Hooker has some really special ability making plays on the ball. I think he'd make some mistakes while he's still learning the position (He's a first year starter, was behind Bell and Powell), but he'd make up for it with some incredible plays and turnovers. His potential is amazing. It'd be pretty hard to pass him up

From everything that people see in him I doubt he's there at #16.

[Jacquouille]

3 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

From everything that people see in him I doubt he's there at #16.

I think he is. A lot will be determined from now on in the process, but this class is so loaded with defensive talent that a one year starter, no matter how talented, can definitely be there in the middle of the first.

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, Sizzlebshu said:

So having two rangy center fielders would allow us to vary the coverages more and allow for pressure from every part of the field.

 

Sign me up 

Yeah, pretty much. It's why Rex could be blitz happy during Reed's prime, since Reed could be in the middle and jump to whichever side the ball was going to be thrown to. I doubt Hooker will be on Reed's level, but he could essentially cover both sides of the field from the middle, which is a huge asset for a defense.

[RaineV1]

5 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

From everything that people see in him I doubt he's there at #16.

He'll be there for two reasons. One, he's a one year wonder, and people are always a bit iffy on those. And two, the draft class is kind of stacked. With a few QBs, the top edge rushers, top o-linemen, and the DBs that did great for multiple years going ahead of him. Even with his big play ability, Jamal Adams is probably going to be the first safety off the board.

[zuilyas]

26 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Wait. Rudolph is not a 2nd rounder in my books and apart from Drafttek who are completely dumb I haven't seen him in any 2nd round. He was in the 4th in Miller's mock draft and I think that's where he should go, between 3rd and 5th. Coley is a different player, he's more lightning in a bottle with some nice moves but suspect hands. 

I think I've seen him range from 2-3/4. I think because he's a polished WR and is someone who some consider a safe bet, I think he gets a little overvalued. I agree with a range of 34/5. I think that makes more sense from what I've seen of him. On another note, I apologize for discussing this with you on a DB thread lolol. My bad

[Ngata Chance]

I would take Hooker at 16. No question. 

[JoeyFlex5]

hooker looks legit, i just watched him for the first time in his tape vs clemson and here are the things i noticed(good and bad) 

bad:

-takes false steps often at the snap, people are calling him a reed-esque center fielding free safety, but if he wants to do that at the NFL then little things like that matter. it may not rear its head often, but when you have only one safety playing deep on most snaps then those false steps will make him a split second late on occasion, you gotta hope he can overcome those with raw speed and ball skills.  

-center fielding free safeties are usually in motion AS the ball is snapped, hooker is typically not in motion until he takes a good second to diagnose and then begins his play, again, nitpicking and not a big deal, but the real ballhawks are already covering by the time the ball is snapped, anticipation and recognizing is what separate a regular safety from a single high ballhawk.  

-backpedal could stand to be more fluid

good: 

-rangy as hell, he really eats up a lot of ground quickly 

-always makes the right guess but still plays disciplined and makes team decisions, no reckless freelancing 

-doesnt have the play diagnosed at the time of the snap, but typically diagnoses after the first play-step is taken by the offense, and his diagnosing is usually correct. still anticipates better than most college safeties ive seen since i began following prospects. 

-speed, burst, lateral speed, can run with head turned, can play the ball like a WR 

-keeps eyes on qb without losing track of wr's 

-diagnoses a run almost immediately and meets the back at the line as if he were a linebacker, only he has a 15 yard running start and really brings the heat

 

overall he looks excellent after 1 game of study. my "bad" section was seriously nitpicking and really was only there because people are labeling him a certain way and im just pointing out that he could improve a few things to really become that single high ballhawk type.

[DomMcRaven]

Now is Hooker strictly a safety or can he play CB as well?

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, DomMcRaven said:

Now is Hooker strictly a safety or can he play CB as well?

I don't like his backpedal nearly enough to put him at corner. Like I said in my post above I was nitpicking but that's easily the weakest part of his game that I saw from him and that one little thing is crucial for a corner 

[ravefan52]

1 hour ago, DomMcRaven said:

Now is Hooker strictly a safety or can he play CB as well?

Putting him at corner would be taking away what he does best

[DomMcRaven]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I don't like his backpedal nearly enough to put him at corner. Like I said in my post above I was nitpicking but that's easily the weakest part of his game that I saw from him and that one little thing is crucial for a corner 

2 hours ago, ravefan52 said:

Putting him at corner would be taking away what he does best

Hmmm. Gotcha.,,thanks guys.

 

[Jacquouille]

http://draftbreakdown.com/2017-nfl-draft-early-preview-of-the-cornerback-class/

 

If you still wonder why this CB class is considered so deep.

[January J]

I think Sidney Jones IV is currently my favorite corner and seems to be a good fit to start opposite Jimmy with Tavon back in the slot. He's very disciplined and has good tackling ability wrapping guys up...plays well in man and has shown off good ballhawking ability.  Plus I think we miiiiight be able to get him in the 2nd. ( may have to trade up though)

So right now ny dream first 3 picks would be 1) Tim Williams 2)Sidney Jones IV 3 ) Ethan Pocic

Unless we get a veteran center via FA or plan to make a permanent move to Urschel - then I'd go with the best wide receiver available in the 3rd or trade up to get 1 if we don't have to trade up for our 2nd pick. If only we were drafting a couple picks higher : /

Got a lot more homework to do though.

Edited January 5 by January J