2017 DB Thread

[Italian Raven]

1 hour ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I'm not sure about white. He's def not as big as Wilson but what worries me most is his lack of on ball production. Hardly ever gets his hands on passes

I mean he reminds me of him technically. And even from a size standpoint they aren't much different afterall: 1" of difference, arm lenght is almost the same and White even has slightly bigger hands.

I don't have a lot of numbers so I can't tell how many times he's been targeted, nor if those times were 70% screen passes and playing off man (where you must a super hero or something to get a PD). There are too many factors that play their part in the stats. I wouldn't bother too much about it as long as the eyes make me comfortable with what I see on tape. 

Also, we're talking about day 2/early 3 kind of prospects so you shouldn't have too much expectation in year 1, although they might even be starting material. 

[BmoreBird22]

13 minutes ago, Italian Raven said:

I mean he reminds me of him technically. And even from a size standpoint they aren't much different afterall: 1" of difference, arm lenght is almost the same and White even has slightly bigger hands.

I don't have a lot of numbers so I can't tell how many times he's been targeted, nor if those times were 70% screen passes and playing off man (where you must a super hero or something to get a PD). There are too many factors that play their part in the stats. I wouldn't bother too much about it as long as the eyes make me comfortable with what I see on tape. 

Also, we're talking about day 2/early 3 kind of prospects so you shouldn't have too much expectation in year 1, although they might even be starting material. 

I wouldn't compare any corner to Wilson as a press man. He's way too refined to be compared to and White just isn't halfway there.

[rossihunter2]

3 hours ago, Italian Raven said:

Man, there's some criminally underrated gems who will fall to RD 3-4. 

Just finished to watch 2015 tapes of Marquez White (FSU). The guy has been constantly left on an island and I've counted a mere 1-2 passes a game going his way. He's a poor men's Q.Wilson in my eyes. Sure, not the fastest of the group but has a good punch to threaten WRs release and speed. Good body language read and routes awarness. Very solid player.

M.White, Witherspoon, Kazee, Elder (and later Hairston). There's so much talent at the position that double dipping is almost a must.

Marquez white is interesting but I don't think he goes anywhere near even the 4th round if I'm honest - in a deep cb class he feels the closest thing to a 6th round developmental type guy as there is

as for the other guys: I love kazee if we can get him in the 4th - he just has amazing instincts that allows him to get away with his lack of deep speed at times, I love Witherspoon even more and if we could stand him in the late 3rd I'd be so excited given that I think he's one of the top 5 pure cover corners in the draft (in a particularly loaded class that is saying something), elder I like as a cover guy but I worry about the fit because of his height and how well tavon has played - he could really be a good pickup but I'd rather not until the 4th and even then it's only if guys like kazee and especially Witherspoon are gone

i can't remember who alerted me to them, but I really like some of treston decoud's tape and he could be a guy who potentially goes undrafted - could be worth our 6th rounder maybe...

[ravensnation5220]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I wouldn't compare any corner to Wilson as a press man. He's way too refined to be compared to and White just isn't halfway there.

You see Wilson as being refined? I don't see that. He seems extremely raw to me. 

[raven94]

4 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

Bold Prediction: Desmond King is taken in the first round. He has been shut down in college and the myth that he is too slow for the NFL I don't think holds water. I really think he still looks like a top 5 cornerback on tape.

Do you think he helped himself that much? I love him as a prospect. I think he can play boundary, nickel or FS. I think even with the good 40 time he's a 2nd rounder, just because of the stacked class

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

Marquez white is interesting but I don't think he goes anywhere near even the 4th round if I'm honest - in a deep cb class he feels the closest thing to a 6th round developmental type guy as there is

as for the other guys: I love kazee if we can get him in the 4th - he just has amazing instincts that allows him to get away with his lack of deep speed at times, I love Witherspoon even more and if we could stand him in the late 3rd I'd be so excited given that I think he's one of the top 5 pure cover corners in the draft (in a particularly loaded class that is saying something), elder I like as a cover guy but I worry about the fit because of his height and how well tavon has played - he could really be a good pickup but I'd rather not until the 4th and even then it's only if guys like kazee and especially Witherspoon are gone

i can't remember who alerted me to them, but I really like some of treston decoud's tape and he could be a guy who potentially goes undrafted - could be worth our 6th rounder maybe...

Love me some Witherspoon too. His timing to break up passes is insane. Just sits on the receivers hip and swats the ball at the last possible second. Would love him in the 3rd. 

And I brought up Decoud a while back. Not sure if anyone else did though. But he could easily be available in the 6th or even UDFA. Needs development but I could see him becoming a solid starter with a long career. I just haven't seen any real weakness in his game. 

Theres prob a CB in every round of this draft that id be really excited about, oddly enough except maybe in the 1st unless Lattimore somehow falls. 

 

Off topic but something else I was thinking about the other day.... I can't ever remember a draft that had so many quality DB prospects coming from the same teams. 

Hooker, Lattimore, Conley

Baker, Jones, King

Awuzie, Whitherspoon, Thomsen 

Adams, White

Wilson, Tabor, Maye

Peppers, Lewis

Humphrey, Jackson

 

Might even be missing a cpl. But a couple of secondaries that could legitimately have 2-3 players go in the 1st round, and a bunch that should have 2-3 gone by end of day 2 for sure.

18 prospects from just 7 teams that could be in the top 100ish players.

 

[Edgar]

If Witherspoon tackles better he is a top 20 pick . Can't believe how underrepresented this guy is.....but if it means we get him in round 3 I'm glad about it.

Really want us to get this guy. Shut down talent. 

2nd best cover corner in the draft and I believe he has upside.

[BmoreBird22]

47 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

You see Wilson as being refined? I don't see that. He seems extremely raw to me. 

He's so extremely patient with his press. He waits patiently and never overcommits or lands a bad punch that'll put him in the hole. If he doesn't feel comfortable with his punch, he'll lay off and not force it and get thrown off balance. 

He's also really good about not opening his hips too early and committing to the deep route too early and getting burned underneath. He uses his punch to create a wide release by the receiver that drives them to the sidelines and waits for them to show their route before he will open his hips.

I think if he had 4.40 speed, he'd be a surefire top 10 pick.

[ravensnation5220]

Justin Evans is not talked about enough. He could be a steal in the 2nd to 3rd round range. Kid has range to cover the entire feild and an attitude I love. His tackling needs a little cleaning up but has nothing to do with fear. You can tell he loves to hit, he just needs better form and needs to wrap up. Can definitely lay some wood though. Love his game. Watched a ton of him live on tv and he always stood out. 

[Jonah DeVito]

Man if all these CBs turn out to be what everyone thinks they are it's gonna be hard to throw in this league lol. 

[Jonah DeVito]

what would you guys think about picking up someone like Tabor in the 3rd? His stock is dropping a lot because of his slow 40 times but I still think he could be a good day 2 or 3 pick. 

Edited March 29 by Jonah DeVito

[rossihunter2]

6 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Love me some Witherspoon too. His timing to break up passes is insane. Just sits on the receivers hip and swats the ball at the last possible second. Would love him in the 3rd. 

And I brought up Decoud a while back. Not sure if anyone else did though. But he could easily be available in the 6th or even UDFA. Needs development but I could see him becoming a solid starter with a long career. I just haven't seen any real weakness in his game. 

Theres prob a CB in every round of this draft that id be really excited about, oddly enough except maybe in the 1st unless Lattimore somehow falls. 

 

Off topic but something else I was thinking about the other day.... I can't ever remember a draft that had so many quality DB prospects coming from the same teams. 

Hooker, Lattimore, Conley

Baker, Jones, King

Awuzie, Whitherspoon, Thomsen 

Adams, White

Wilson, Tabor, Maye

Peppers, Lewis

Humphrey, Jackson

 

Might even be missing a cpl. But a couple of secondaries that could legitimately have 2-3 players go in the 1st round, and a bunch that should have 2-3 gone by end of day 2 for sure.

18 prospects from just 7 teams that could be in the top 100ish players.

 

Yeah I posted about that the other day - early on some of the criticism about some of the Ohio state guys was that they all played together so we're helped by each other a lot but given that so many of the top prospects played with each other it's hard to criticise any of them over others - the OSU guys just elevated themselsves more than the others

[rmw10]

7 hours ago, Jonah DeVito said:

what would you guys think about picking up someone like Tabor in the 3rd? His stock is dropping a lot because of his slow 40 times but I still think he could be a good day 2 or 3 pick. 

I don't really have much reason to be interested at this point.  Good ball skills but doesn't have any speed and looks like he could potentially be a PI machine.  I'd much rather have a CB that's sticky in coverage and doesn't come down with the INTs.

[BmoreBird22]

So, on the heels of the Florida pro day, Wilson looked to cement his first round status as Teez Tabor now appears headed for a day three pick.

[hn68wb4]

A guy that I liked but stopped keeping tabs on because the class is so deep is Des Lawrence, CB, UNC (I had him as our 5th round pick way back in my second mock in mid November). At the UNC pro day his numbers were solid:

Measured in at 6', 187 lbs - Not surprising that he was an inch below his listed height, while watching Boyd last year he was noticeably shorter and Boyd measured in at 6'1.

4.53 40 yard dash - Very good for him, my biggest knock on him is his athletic ability, speed in particular, left a lot to be desired. He seems to have done an adequate job of putting that fear of him lacking speed to bed for the most part.

20 reps on the bench - For a guy that's only 187 lbs that extremely impressive, would have placed 3rd at the combine.

32" verticle - Not amazing, but the same as Tre White and Quincy Wilson, can't complain too much about that.

9'6" broad jump - Not good, would have tied him for last at the combine. Not the most important drill for CBs, but a bit disappointing nonetheless.

I just wish there were better tape from him this past year, everything on draftbreakdown is from 2015.

[JoeyFlex5]

On 3/28/2017 at 10:29 PM, Jonah DeVito said:

Man if all these CBs turn out to be what everyone thinks they are it's gonna be hard to throw in this league lol. 

Simple fix. Change the rule books some more

[JoeyFlex5]

18 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

A guy that I liked but stopped keeping tabs on because the class is so deep is Des Lawrence, CB, UNC (I had him as our 5th round pick way back in my second mock in mid November). At the UNC pro day his numbers were solid:

Measured in at 6', 187 lbs - Not surprising that he was an inch below his listed height, while watching Boyd last year he was noticeably shorter and Boyd measured in at 6'1.

4.53 40 yard dash - Very good for him, my biggest knock on him is his athletic ability, speed in particular, left a lot to be desired. He seems to have done an adequate job of putting that fear of him lacking speed to bed for the most part.

20 reps on the bench - For a guy that's only 187 lbs that extremely impressive, would have placed 3rd at the combine.

32" verticle - Not amazing, but the same as Tre White and Quincy Wilson, can't complain too much about that.

9'6" broad jump - Not good, would have tied him for last at the combine. Not the most important drill for CBs, but a bit disappointing nonetheless.

I just wish there were better tape from him this past year, everything on draftbreakdown is from 2015.

I like des too, he'd be worth it in the 4th, he isn't the fastest long speed guy but he closes really well

[Jonah DeVito]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Simple fix. Change the rule books some more

Unfortunately you are probably right. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I'm getting really high on Akhello Witherspoon.

Both he and Awuzie could be darn good in the NFL... but Witherspoon's length, mirror/match ability.... man he just sticks on the hip and then swats at the last second.

I wont be surprised if he winds up being one of the best CB's in this draft.

[rossihunter2]

49 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I'm getting really high on Akhello Witherspoon.

Both he and Awuzie could be darn good in the NFL... but Witherspoon's length, mirror/match ability.... man he just sticks on the hip and then swats at the last second.

I wont be surprised if he winds up being one of the best CB's in this draft.

im with you - i think awuzie will go in the 2nd round but i think witherspoon can be had in the 3rd/late 3rd which could be an unbelievable value pick - the further along the process we get the more i think we might be able to grab some phenomenal corner prospects in the 3rd (and maybe double-dip in that round)

i know we are short on the offensive side of the ball but if our first 4 picks were 2 pass rushers and 2 corners id be so fine with that - especially if one of them was witherspoon

[ravensnation5220]

Those of you who don't know about Ahkello Witherspoon's journey to the NFL. It's quite the story.... @BOLDnPurPnBlacK @rossihunter2

His father, Lucky, was a running back at Nevada. His grandfather, Jimmy, was a blues artist who had a number one hit on the R&B charts in 1949 called "Ain't Nobody's Business". Witherspoon's given first name is actually James, but he goes by Ahkello, the first of two middle names (Elec). The pre-med student went to junior college after high school to play football; he was 5-foot-8 as a high school senior but listed at 6-foot-3 during his one year at Sacramento City Community College

Top games as a senior in high school: in a 23-20 win over River City, he had three tackles, with five points scored on kicks (2-3 PAT, 1-2 FG, the latter good from 35 yards); he missed a late field goal try to tie the game but on the next drive, intercepted a pass on defense and returned it 34 yards to the 4-yard line, setting up the winning touchdown with 13 seconds left in the game.

He also lettered twice in basketball (point guard), averaging 16 points and seven assists as a senior, and two times in baseball (outfield), owning a .300 batting average with 21 stolen bases his senior season.  He also played soccer as a freshman.

He is majoring in EBIO (Ecology & Evolutionary Biology) at Colorado.  He has aspirations of becoming a doctor after his football career is over. His hobbies include playing basketball and singing (particularly rhythm and blues).

Goes to show that everyone grows into their body differently, I think his lack of football experience and the fact that he was so small in high school explains his lack of physicality in the run game. In an NFL weight room he will get bigger and stronger. I'm sure of it. I'll be rooting for this kid for sure

Edited April 6 by ravensnation5220

[Jonah DeVito]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 9:48 AM, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I'm getting really high on Akhello Witherspoon.

Both he and Awuzie could be darn good in the NFL... but Witherspoon's length, mirror/match ability.... man he just sticks on the hip and then swats at the last second.

I wont be surprised if he winds up being one of the best CB's in this draft.

If you are high on him at least spell his name right

[rossihunter2]

I know awuzie is often mocked above ahkello but I'm starting to come around to the opinion that Witherspoon is the better cover corner - awuzie is better in run support and more physical and slightly shiftier but he's also more prone to getting beat deep from long speed or double-moves

thats a sneaky good secondary by the way at Colorado: awuzie, tedric thompson, Witherspoon - all may well go by the end of day 2

Edited April 6 by rossihunter2

[Edgar]

2 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

I know awuzie is often mocked above ahkello but I'm starting to come around to the opinion that Witherspoon is the better cover corner - awuzie is better in run support and more physical and slightly shiftier but he's also more prone to getting beat deep from long speed or double-moves

thats a sneaky good secondary by the way at Colorado: awuzie, tedric thompson, Witherspoon - all may well go by the end of day 2

He is better. (Witherspoon)

Not sure how he is being slept on nationally but it was clear to me a while ago how talented he is. 

He has upside, one would have to think, against the run, given some work and strength conditioning.

 

 

Edited April 6 by Edgar

[ravensnation5220]

@rossihunter2 @Edgar

I think Witherspoon is so overlooked because he is so raw. A lot of teams prefer not to have a project with a high draft pick. Awuzie cam come in and contribute right away while im not sure ahkello can do the same. He's very slim, very slim. He has no physicality in the run game and it will take some time for him to develop and fill out his frame, not to mention he only had 1 int when he had his hands on 23 passes, I'm sure some teams will question his ball skills. I love his coverage skills and his character, everything about him says he will be successful, however, I think it will take him some time. You have to remember he didn't play football until his senior year of high school. 

If you read what I wrote about him above you'll see that he's one of those late bloomer kind of kids. He didn't really grow into his body until later in his life and there's nothing wrong with that, just some teams prefer not to wait 

[Edgar]

20 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

@rossihunter2 @Edgar

I think Witherspoon is so overlooked because he is so raw. A lot of teams prefer not to have a project with a high draft pick. Awuzie cam come in and contribute right away while im not sure ahkello can do the same. He's very slim, very slim. He has no physicality in the run game and it will take some time for him to develop and fill out his frame, not to mention he only had 1 int when he had his hands on 23 passes, I'm sure some teams will question his ball skills. I love his coverage skills and his character, everything about him says he will be successful, however, I think it will take him some time. You have to remember he didn't play football until his senior year of high school. 

If you read what I wrote about him above you'll see that he's one of those late bloomer kind of kids. He didn't really grow into his body until later in his life and there's nothing wrong with that, just some teams prefer not to wait 

He may lack experience but he isn't raw in coverage. He is out on the island and shuts guys down.

Picks are great, obviously but it doesn't tell the whole tale. He understands routes and makes plays on the ball....a lot.

Can't argue he's a rail.

[rossihunter2]

6 minutes ago, Edgar said:

He may lack experience but he isn't raw in coverage. He is out on the island and shuts guys down.

Picks are great, obviously but it doesn't tell the whole tale. He understands routes and makes plays on the ball....a lot.

Can't argue he's a rail.

I don't see the rawness to his game outside of his tackling - he understands leverage and mirroring concepts and operates at a higher level than guys mocked above him - he has good fluidity in his hips and decent ball-finding ability that belies the only 1 int last year - also his long arms are brutal when he can get them entirely around receivers to swat the ball away at the last second... in terms of ball skills it's not like awuzie has a better int return either

[ravensnation5220]

21 minutes ago, Edgar said:

He may lack experience but he isn't raw in coverage. He is out on the island and shuts guys down.

Picks are great, obviously but it doesn't tell the whole tale. He understands routes and makes plays on the ball....a lot.

Can't argue he's a rail.

 

11 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

I don't see the rawness to his game outside of his tackling - he understands leverage and mirroring concepts and operates at a higher level than guys mocked above him - he has good fluidity in his hips and decent ball-finding ability that belies the only 1 int last year - also his long arms are brutal when he can get them entirely around receivers to swat the ball away at the last second... in terms of ball skills it's not like awuzie has a better int return either

He really never had to face any complex routes in the pac12 though. I mean all they run are about 5 routes in that conference. Slants, 9s, outs, ins, and curls are all he really had to know. I think he might have a hard time with more complex route trees at the next level. He's bound to be a bit raw considering his extremely short football career. His hips are great and feet are fluid but he's def not polished by any means. I think it just comes very natural to him. He's one of those natural athletes and that shows with all the sports he played in highschool

[BmoreBird22]

So, an NFC exec said Adams shouldn't be a top 5 pick because he isn't a game changer. 

Mhm, okay. 

[rossihunter2]

21 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

So, an NFC exec said Adams shouldn't be a top 5 pick because he isn't a game changer. 

Mhm, okay. 

The closer we get to the draft the more zierlein's sources will try and use him to throw other teams off - I bet that exec was from a team like the panthers or saints who'd lap him up at 8 or 11 - or maybe even the bears wanting the 49ers to second guess taking him at number 2

i highly doubt that exec truly believes what he's telling zierlein - even zierlein doesn't really take it seriously if you read what he wrote about it below