2017 DB Thread

[52520Andrew]

Haven't had time to see the combine but I know Gareon Conley is a guy who stuck out to me on film and is doing well today

[rossihunter2]

14 minutes ago, January J said:

After watching bits and peices of the combine- the DB's that caught my eye the most were:

-Kazee 

-King

-Douglas

- Jones

-Baker

No particular order. I also am slowly coming back around to Peppers who I originally liked but then kinda just went sour on him. He did well though IMO.

- kazee is quite inconsistent on film, he occasionally gets into good positions and has great short-area quickness to make plays and he gets his hands on the ball plenty (i think he had 7 ints this year) but he's also a little inconsistent in his back pedal and flipping his hips which given his lack of length and deep speed - he ran well today in the 40 but he doesn't necessary transfer that speed in coverage because he's quite stiff - when the ball is in front of him though his burst off his pedal is exceptional - he's intriguing

- i assume you mean kevin king rather than desmond king, i really like him on tape - he's so long and really good at finding the football in the air, has decent ball skills and the ability to use that length to offput receivers and break up passes - surprisingly ineffective at the line when playing press-man for a guy his size and has occasionally looked off balance on longer routes but assuaged some of those concerns by timing well in the 40 and looking good in the hip-flip drills - he locates the ball well when his back is turned also

- douglas is i think a boom or bust kind of guy who's pretty raw and a big gambler - he goes early when he thinks he knows the route which means sometimes he gets beat too easily but often means he reads the qb well and makes a play on the ball - his instincts are pretty good in those terms and he has great hands to the extent that he can go and make tougher ints than some other guys in the class, he doesnt have top end speed and didnt change that opinion with his 40 time - he isn't great at any particular coverages and can get lost when shadowing receivers - he probably fits best in a zone-based system with safety help headed his way where he's never going to be left 1v1 with a burner - if he can play behind a front 7 that limits the qb's downfield options he can be a game changer intercepting short outs and slants but maybe not screens as his tackling and ability to get off blocks is severely lacking

the other two guys are probably consensus top 3 guys at their position

[rossihunter2]

23 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Haven't had time to see the combine but I know Gareon Conley is a guy who stuck out to me on film and is doing well today

yeah he consolidated his self (to me at least) as the 4th best corner in the draft - he looked lengthy, showed off good speedy and performed well in coverage drills in both his fluidity and ball skills

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

9 minutes ago, January J said:

Yeah right now I think it makes more sense to go pass rusher / OL in the first & 2nd and then grab a guy like Kazee or Douglas in the third. 

My dream scenario is Barnett 1st, Jackson 2nd (unless somehow a higher rated CB is still there). 3rd grabbing someone like Zay Jones or if Kpassagnon is somehow there... and getting our C of the future in either Pocic/Elflein. 

Id prefer if we can get the pass rusher in the 1st unless theyre just absolutely sold on a CB being a shut down stud... but i also dont want to wait too late and settle for just a guy -- someone that may contribute as a decent starter or back up -- when we could get a very good starter with pro bowl type potential in the 2nd. 

While I like guys like Moreau, Corn Elder, Howard Wilson, etc... I think there's a solid group of 3-5 guys that could possibly be there for us in the 2nd and would be legit 1st rounders in most drafts. Obviously i trust our FO's board... but i really hope we can take advantage of the depth at CB and nab 1st round talents at both pass rush/WR/OL (depending on what we do in FA and how the board falls at 16) and then CB.

Barnett/Williams/Harris at 16; Quincy/Conley/Jackson/White/Lewis/Tank in the 2nd.

[Davesta]

I would be happy with moreau or white with our 2nd. If one of the top 2 WR is there with our 16, if not, go pass rusher 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

10 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

yeah he consolidated his self (to me at least) as the 4th best corner in the draft - he looked lengthy, showed off good speedy and performed well in coverage drills in both his fluidity and ball skills

I honestly didnt love Conley's tape.

I get that he impressed at the combine, and hes clearly an athlete with raw ability to mold... but on tape he looked the clear weak link in that secondary to me. Obviously with Lattimore and Hooker being studs that may not be saying much... but youd think if Conley were really that good it wouldve been almost impossible to throw on those guys.

I need to go back and watch again, but im not willing yet to have Conley jump people just based on this work out. He was barely in the convo of back end 1st round before hand for me... and more likely a mid-2nd (which i wouldnt mind bc id like him as our 2nd round pick).

That athleticism didnt save him in college. Its even less an advantage in the NFL.

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I honestly didnt love Conley's tape.

I get that he impressed at the combine, and hes clearly an athlete with raw ability to mold... but on tape he looked the clear weak link in that secondary to me. Obviously with Lattimore and Hooker being studs that may not be saying much... but youd think if Conley were really that good it wouldve been almost impossible to throw on those guys.

I need to go back and watch again, but im not willing yet to have Conley jump people just based on this work out. He was barely in the convo of back end 1st round before hand for me... and more likely a mid-2nd (which i wouldnt mind bc id like him as our 2nd round pick).

That athleticism didnt save him in college. Its even less an advantage in the NFL.

i didnt say he jumped though just that he confirmed himself where i already had him, i think we must just see different things on tape, i see a guy with the ability to force a receiver to the sidelines, who matches patterns well, has solid recovery speed downfield and finds the football, his back pedal is a little inconsistent and occasionally stumbly but even then he has good recovery speed and most of the time he flips his hips well, he isnt a great tackler but he is willing and he has outstanding length - i dont think he'll go in the 1st round but i personally have a 1st round grade on him - nfl media is now touting him as a potential top 15 pick which i dont see but id take him in the mid 20s or late 1st round and he's the 20th guy on my big board the only movement that happened in that area post combine was i switched his place with taco charlton so i already had him pretty high

ive been touting him for a while now - if he's there in the 2nd then id be elated with that pick

[rossihunter2]

Lance zierlein was asked how many dbs he thought were going in the 1st round post-combine and he said probably 4 corners and 4 safeties which I thought was interesting - it means he agrees with the board's consensus that teez is not a first round guy and is overrated in the media

my guess is that the 8 guys he thinks are going are: Adams, hooker, lattimore, jones, Humphrey, Wilson, baker, peppers but that would also mean that tredavius white, tabor, Jackson, melifonwu, Conley are all going in the 2nd round in his eyes

[Underdogsontop!]

Jags signing Barry church, I guess they won't be drafting hooker or Adams  

[raven94]

If we'really signing Tony Jefferson does that mean that drafting a safety is out of the picture? Personally I think it does

[rossihunter2]

4 minutes ago, raven94 said:

If we'really signing Tony Jefferson does that mean that drafting a safety is out of the picture? Personally I think it does

Me too - which, considering how strong this safety class is, is weird - especially as I think there are options in the 2nd/3rd that could be great pickups... I guess not anymore

[Gruntled Ravens Fan]

8 minutes ago, raven94 said:

If we'really signing Tony Jefferson does that mean that drafting a safety is out of the picture? Personally I think it does

I was thinking that it might alter our plans a little bit now since our Safeties are solid (Weddle and Jefferson), they'll help out the secondary which means we target a pass rusher instead of a DB in my opinion.

Edited March 9 by Gruntled Ravens Fan

[SepticeyePoe]

1 minute ago, rossihunter2 said:

Me too - which, considering how strong this safety class is, is weird - especially as I think there are options in the 2nd/3rd that could be great pickups... I guess not anymore

If someone good is there, then we might take one anyway and have him learn behind Weddle and Jefferson. 

[rossihunter2]

1 minute ago, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

I was thinking that it might alter our plans a little bit now since our Safeties are solid (Weddle and Jefferson), they'll help out the secondary which means we target a pass rusher instead of a DB in my opinion.

If I'm honest I've always though pass rusher in round 1 would be the bpa at 16 but I'm if anything less confident now just because I feel like maybe we don't even go defense - if Barnett is there though... 

[raven94]

3 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

Me too - which, considering how strong this safety class is, is weird - especially as I think there are options in the 2nd/3rd that could be great pickups... I guess not anymore

I agree. I was just starting to warm up to Jabrill Peppers and Budda Baker as early round prospects

[rossihunter2]

7 minutes ago, raven94 said:

I agree. I was just starting to warm up to Jabrill Peppers and Budda Baker as early round prospects

Or melifonwu or Marcus Williams or Marcus maye or even take a mid-round flyer on Eddie Jackson 

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

I was thinking that it might alter our plans a little bit now since our Safeties are solid (Weddle and Jefferson), they'll help out the secondary which means we target a pass rusher instead of a DB in my opinion.

Even with improving the safety position we still need CBs.

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

Or melifonwu or Marcus Williams or Marcus maye or even take a mid-round flyer on Eddie Jackson 

We could still take a flyer on Jackson. Weddle is up there in age, so Ozzie might want to get a guy that can step in for him in a couple years.

[Yatagarasu]

DB is so deep, I don't mind double dipping this year. I have a feeling one of those late 1st rounders like Quincy Wilson, Adoree' Jackson or even Ahkello Witherspoon.

 

I can easily name 5 other names that are in that range.

I say go with the strength of the draft.

Jimmy Smith ain't getting younger or more durable.

Tavon Young is perfect for the slot.

The rest of the DB is in shambles.

Let the rookies battle it out for the 2nd outside spot.

We just have to believe in Marty to fix our offense.

 

Edited March 9 by Yatagarasu

[raven94]

6 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

DB is so deep, I don't mind double dipping this year. I have a feeling one of those late 1st rounders like Quincy Wilson, Adoree' Jackson or even Ahkello Witherspoon.

 

I can easily name 5 other names that are in that range.

I say go with the strength of the draft.

Jimmy Smith ain't getting younger or more durable.

Tavon Young is perfect for the slot.

The rest of the DB is in shambles.

Let the rookies battle it out for the 2nd outside spot.

We just have to believe in Marty to fix our offense.

 

This is kind of my mentality too. I've got more of a defensive theme to my mock drafts. I'm a fan of Sidney Jones in the first or Gareon Conley in the 1st/2nd and then I'll be honest Howard Wilson from Houston is going to be a really good corner back. He's caught my eye and I would obviously like to get him for as cheap as possible, maybe 3rd round but hopefully 4th, and then also get some pass rushers and a few OL and that really sums up my draft

[January J]

I think our only chance of taking a safety now is Desmond king if he makes it to the third round. Peppers is now out of the equation. We won't be wasting a high pick on a S with the signing of Jefferson ...but with king he will not only be good depth but he can line up and play other positions in the secondary.

[52520Andrew]

Someone want to reassure me after watching Sidney Jones struggle against Ju Ju Smith?

[ravensnick]

2 hours ago, January J said:

I think our only chance of taking a safety now is Desmond king if he makes it to the third round. Peppers is now out of the equation. We won't be wasting a high pick on a S with the signing of Jefferson ...but with king he will not only be good depth but he can line up and play other positions in the secondary.

It wouldn't be wasting if we determined that they were the BPA. Teams like the Saints like to run 3 safeties and Weddle is aging: we have to get his replacement at some time. Now at least we don't have to immediately reach on a secondary player.

[52520Andrew]

Peppers is like a missle when he shoots through gaps

[Italian Raven]

I was just watching Corey Davis game against Akron and #6 DeAndre Scott (Senior, team pass breakups' leader in 2016 and 6 int in 2015) stood out. The kid looked like reading the body language and waiting for Davis on the outside pattern on those 2-3 plays. He even almost got away with a great INT if it wasn't for that hold that he could've easily avoided. There isn't much about him online and he wasn't invited at the combine so I'm just throwing one more name out there. Possibly a serviceable 7th rounder or UFA.

[52520Andrew]

On 3/6/2017 at 7:15 PM, rossihunter2 said:

i didnt say he jumped though just that he confirmed himself where i already had him, i think we must just see different things on tape, i see a guy with the ability to force a receiver to the sidelines, who matches patterns well, has solid recovery speed downfield and finds the football, his back pedal is a little inconsistent and occasionally stumbly but even then he has good recovery speed and most of the time he flips his hips well, he isnt a great tackler but he is willing and he has outstanding length - i dont think he'll go in the 1st round but i personally have a 1st round grade on him - nfl media is now touting him as a potential top 15 pick which i dont see but id take him in the mid 20s or late 1st round and he's the 20th guy on my big board the only movement that happened in that area post combine was i switched his place with taco charlton so i already had him pretty high

ive been touting him for a while now - if he's there in the 2nd then id be elated with that pick

Yeah I liked his tape pre combine a decent amount and the athleticism he showed there is more a bonus for me. Biggest weaknesses I have seen are tackling/run support, and maybe the more complex routes but all in all I think he is as good as any CB in the draft in coverage. His Wisconsin game was good as was the Penn State game where he got beat once but it was a really good play from the WR, not really much he could have done differently there. 

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

Yeah I liked his tape pre combine a decent amount and the athleticism he showed there is more a bonus for me. Biggest weaknesses I have seen are tackling/run support, and maybe the more complex routes but all in all I think he is as good as any CB in the draft in coverage. His Wisconsin game was good as was the Penn State game where he got beat once but it was a really good play from the WR, not really much he could have done differently there. 

i dont know about you but when i evaluate a cb run support is literally the last thing i worry about - tackling can be taught, making tackles can be encouraged by the fact that suddenly you are getting paid for it... coverage skills are what i care about first and foremost

[52520Andrew]

2 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i dont know about you but when i evaluate a cb run support is literally the last thing i worry about - tackling can be taught, making tackles can be encouraged by the fact that suddenly you are getting paid for it... coverage skills are what i care about first and foremost

Exactly which should tell you how much I like Conley when my biggest gripe is his tackling. 

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Exactly which should tell you how much I like Conley when my biggest gripe is his tackling. 

my two favourite players in this draft in terms of potential value are barnett and conley - there are a lot of players id love to have but if we managed to come back from the draft with those two, i wouldnt care so much who the other picks after them are

[52520Andrew]

2 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

my two favourite players in this draft in terms of potential value are barnett and conley - there are a lot of players id love to have but if we managed to come back from the draft with those two, i wouldnt care so much who the other picks after them are

Yeah I don't know if Conley with our second is too realistic at this point(I think the combine cemented his first round status) but pairing him and Jimmy would be fun and I think Conley has #1 CB potential if/when Jimmy goes down. 

[rossihunter2]

8 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Yeah I don't know if Conley with our second is too realistic at this point(I think the combine cemented his first round status) but pairing him and Jimmy would be fun and I think Conley has #1 CB potential if/when Jimmy goes down. 

i dont know, i have a round 1 grade on him but there are a number of corners where it may well be 'pick your poison' time for teams at the end of the 1st beginning of the 2nd: conley, humphrey, white, jackson, tabor, king, tankersley - now id only want the first 4 of those guys maybe at our pick in the 2nd round but i could see seattle falling for humphrey or tabor or eveven king and tankersley - i think white might have the best coverage tape of all of them he just happens to be slightly shorter - my hope is that the other guys get plucked earlier and it pushes conley back