2017 DB Thread

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I could honestly see it happen. He won't blow up the combine, his ball production isn't great either and there's only been 2 safeties taken in the top 10 once. Safeties don't typically go high and he might end up going under the radar. Some teams may even prefer budda baker, he plays FS has more ball production and will probably have a better combine (not by measurements however) than Adams. A lot would have to happen but I could see him fall

I think we're trying to rationalize it happening so the Ravens can get him.

Excellent run defender of epic proportions. Can pursue extremely well, get across the formation on cutbacks, and rarely misses a tackle. He's just phenomenal against the run.

As a pass coverage safety, he's able to cover tight ends with ease, processes combo routes that require pass offs in coverage, and shows good enough range to play in a single high. 

He's also an elite leader and has excellent character.

He's just an A+ across the board and he's going to go in the top 10 unless he bombs the combine or shows a lack of desire.

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think we're trying to rationalize it happening so the Ravens can get him.

Excellent run defender of epic proportions. Can pursue extremely well, get across the formation on cutbacks, and rarely misses a tackle. He's just phenomenal against the run.

As a pass coverage safety, he's able to cover tight ends with ease, processes combo routes that require pass offs in coverage, and shows good enough range to play in a single high. 

He's also an elite leader and has excellent character.

He's just an A+ across the board and he's going to go in the top 10 unless he bombs the combine or shows a lack of desire.

i think that's what people are trying to rationalise - dbs so rarely go in the top 10 and there are at least 3 who are expected to go around then - is it crazy to maybe see on of the safeties fall? probably but we can all hope...

[RavensDieHard21]

Adams is third on my big board pre combine and that won't change afterwards. After Garrett and Allen idk if there is a more well rounded talent. 

[Jacquouille]

12 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think we're trying to rationalize it happening so the Ravens can get him.

Excellent run defender of epic proportions. Can pursue extremely well, get across the formation on cutbacks, and rarely misses a tackle. He's just phenomenal against the run.

As a pass coverage safety, he's able to cover tight ends with ease, processes combo routes that require pass offs in coverage, and shows good enough range to play in a single high. 

He's also an elite leader and has excellent character.

He's just an A+ across the board and he's going to go in the top 10 unless he bombs the combine or shows a lack of desire.

I remember the good ol' times before the season started when I loved his tape and said he was my favourite for our first round... Then 3 months later he's going top5.

[hn68wb4]

I really don't like pro comparisons but I always get shades of Tavon when I watch Josh Holsey from Auburn, if he hadn't lost two seasons due to torn ACLs I think he'd be a much higher rated prospect.

[rossihunter2]

48 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

I really don't like pro comparisons but I always get shades of Tavon when I watch Josh Holsey from Auburn, if he hadn't lost two seasons due to torn ACLs I think he'd be a much higher rated prospect.

see i see gareon conley as similar to tavon just lengthier and taller - i feel like the way they play is so similar but gareon conley is lengthier and therefore more highly rated

[ravensnation5220]

Howard wilson CB Houston is another tall corner standing at 6'1. HHe had 5 picks and 10 PD last season after coming off a season ending injury the year prior. He could make himself a lot of money with a good showing at the combine. Kinda like William Jackson did. Ironically they went to the same school

[KBoum]

If one of these are  4 available at 16th, its a no brainer :

Hooker

Adams

Garrett

Allen

 

I need to study more the CBs play but right now those are my 4 favorite prospects. I really like Tim Williams as well but he could be a reach at 16th.

[KBoum]

What are your thoughts on Jourdan Lewis ? The more I watch him the least I like him. I really liked him at first but looks to me he's not playing some fundamentals and solid technique he's relying on athleticism too much. He's playing behind his WR all the time and following him but in the NFL he'll get roasted or bite on better route runner.

 

I'll need to watch more but there's something off with him as far as I'm concerned

[JoeyFlex5]

48 minutes ago, KBoum said:

If one of these are  4 available at 16th, its a no brainer :

Hooker

Adams

Garrett

Allen

 

I need to study more the CBs play but right now those are my 4 favorite prospects. I really like Tim Williams as well but he could be a reach at 16th.

Hooker is the only one with the slightest chance of being there but he most likely won't be.

[ravensnation5220]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Hooker is the only one with the slightest chance of being there but he most likely won't be.

The problem with Hooker is I think he will take time to develop. I don't think he's a plug and play type of player. He still needs to learn the nuances of the position, he's just extremely raw and is a terrible tackler. He needs a lot of improvement in a lot of areas but his range and playmaking ability is undeniable

[JoeyFlex5]

7 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

The problem with Hooker is I think he will take time to develop. I don't think he's a plug and play type of player. He still needs to learn the nuances of the position, he's just extremely raw and is a terrible tackler. He needs a lot of improvement in a lot of areas but his range and playmaking ability is undeniable

I don't see that... the only thing I see is he starts moving at the snap, when ideally your FS is moving before the snap. 

He makes plays in run support fairly often too, not Jamal Adams level by a long shot but he does well at being the safety net on run plays

[ravensnation5220]

17 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I don't see that... the only thing I see is he starts moving at the snap, when ideally your FS is moving before the snap. 

He makes plays in run support fairly often too, not Jamal Adams level by a long shot but he does well at being the safety net on run plays

He had 17 run stops and 13 missed tackles. He takes bad angles very often. He's had problems in man coverage too when asked to cover a tight end one on one. He's only seemed to make plays when hes the center fielder. Qbs underestimated his range and thanks to his athleticism he was able to make the play. He's only played one year as a college safety before that he was a basketball player. He has a lot he needs to work on and will be a project in the NFL. Teams need to be careful with players who come in with super high expectations. Hookers just not there yet. I'm not questioning the talent or potential, I just think it will take one or two years for him to get acclimated to the NFL. Ohio state simplified things for their inexperienced defense. He's gonna have to learn an nfl playbook and I doubt he's really had to learn much from a playbook considering his extremely short football career

[Somerset Ravens]

46 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I don't see that... the only thing I see is he starts moving at the snap, when ideally your FS is moving before the snap. 

He makes plays in run support fairly often too, not Jamal Adams level by a long shot but he does well at being the safety net on run plays

Jamal Adams seems to be the premier safety in this draft. We would be incredibly lucky if he were available at the 16th pick.

What is your opinion of Marcus Williams ?  I saw some impressive video of him, even though he appears to be slender of build.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, Somerset Ravens said:

Jamal Adams seems to be the premier safety in this draft. We would be incredibly lucky if he were available at the 16th pick.

What is your opinion of Marcus Williams ?  I saw some impressive video of him, even though he appears to be slender of build.

I actually like what little I've seen from him. Reminds me a lot of HHCD, it's hard to judge safeties in coverage accurately but he looks like he may even be a little more heady. His game is definitely built around center fielding and he seems to do it well. 

That said, I haven't seen enough of him to make a call

[BMORE21]

would be nice if we could grab lattimore or sidney jones, then trade up to grab budda baker

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I'm getting less and less confident CB is the way to go at 16. 

I think Lattimore and maybe Jones are gone. Even if not Lattimores injury history and lack of experience is a little worrisome. Jones is class but size could be a concern on the outside. I'd prefer length at the position if we can help it. 

I like Wilson but idk if he's great value at 16. The physical tools are there... great hunk of clay to mold, but might be a project. We need someone to hold down the position day 1. 

Humphrey I wasn't as high on, but he's growing on me. Great physical traits but his footwork can get sloppy at times and can look downright bad with his back turned. If he doesn't clean that up he'll get picked on all day until he does. 

Tabor I'm just not sure. I mean maybe with Jimmy, Tavon and our safeties we could actually use a guy like him. They rarely gamble and are pretty sound. Maybe we could get away with and benefit from more of an undisciplined gambler as long as he makes enough plays. If Jimmy's healthy we could afford to shade safety help over so we're not giving up homeruns bc of it. But still question marks in his game and personality. 

Love some of the potential value later if a guy like Adoree Jackson or Conley is there in the 2nd. Liking Corn Elder more and more. Not sure where he's being mocked but I'd start considering him in the 3rd. Moreau is another day 2 guy I like. 

I'll obviously trust the FO's evaluations over my own if they take a CB at 16. 

But I think I've convinced myself that if Barnett or either of the top 2 safeties for sure, Williams/Davis, and maybe even Takk/Harris, Fournette or OJ Howard are there i may consider them over many of the CBs. 

A month ago I was sure that if any of 3-4 CBs were there that's the pick to make. But not so sure anymore. I'm seeing some sure fire playmakers at other positions, and seeing more questions in a lot of the CBs... plus the fact that I don't see huge drop off between the say top 4-5 and the next 4-5... we may be better off grabbing corner day 2.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I'm getting less and less confident CB is the way to go at 16. 

I think Lattimore and maybe Jones are gone. Even if not Lattimores injury history and lack of experience is a little worrisome. Jones is class but size could be a concern on the outside. I'd prefer length at the position if we can help it. 

I like Wilson but idk if he's great value at 16. The physical tools are there... great hunk of clay to mold, but might be a project. We need someone to hold down the position day 1. 

Humphrey I wasn't as high on, but he's growing on me. Great physical traits but his footwork can get sloppy at times and can look downright bad with his back turned. If he doesn't clean that up he'll get picked on all day until he does. 

Tabor I'm just not sure. I mean maybe with Jimmy, Tavon and our safeties we could actually use a guy like him. They rarely gamble and are pretty sound. Maybe we could get away with and benefit from more of an undisciplined gambler as long as he makes enough plays. If Jimmy's healthy we could afford to shade safety help over so we're not giving up homeruns bc of it. But still question marks in his game and personality. 

Love some of the potential value later if a guy like Adoree Jackson or Conley is there in the 2nd. Liking Corn Elder more and more. Not sure where he's being mocked but I'd start considering him in the 3rd. Moreau is another day 2 guy I like. 

I'll obviously trust the FO's evaluations over my own if they take a CB at 16. 

But I think I've convinced myself that if Barnett or either of the top 2 safeties for sure, Williams/Davis, and maybe even Takk/Harris, Fournette or OJ Howard are there i may consider them over many of the CBs. 

A month ago I was sure that if any of 3-4 CBs were there that's the pick to make. But not so sure anymore. I'm seeing some sure fire playmakers at other positions, and seeing more questions in a lot of the CBs... plus the fact that I don't see huge drop off between the say top 4-5 and the next 4-5... we may be better off grabbing corner day 2.

i too prefer waiting til 48 for a cb, whether it ends up being tre white, jourdan lewis, or adoree jackson, i love all 3 of them. i think jourdan lewis is a guy who doesnt get enough credit, hes got great upside with his great athleticism and fluidity and his ability to play the ball, he just needs to get his fundamentals down.

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I'm getting less and less confident CB is the way to go at 16. 

I think Lattimore and maybe Jones are gone. Even if not Lattimores injury history and lack of experience is a little worrisome. Jones is class but size could be a concern on the outside. I'd prefer length at the position if we can help it. 

I like Wilson but idk if he's great value at 16. The physical tools are there... great hunk of clay to mold, but might be a project. We need someone to hold down the position day 1. 

Humphrey I wasn't as high on, but he's growing on me. Great physical traits but his footwork can get sloppy at times and can look downright bad with his back turned. If he doesn't clean that up he'll get picked on all day until he does. 

Tabor I'm just not sure. I mean maybe with Jimmy, Tavon and our safeties we could actually use a guy like him. They rarely gamble and are pretty sound. Maybe we could get away with and benefit from more of an undisciplined gambler as long as he makes enough plays. If Jimmy's healthy we could afford to shade safety help over so we're not giving up homeruns bc of it. But still question marks in his game and personality. 

Love some of the potential value later if a guy like Adoree Jackson or Conley is there in the 2nd. Liking Corn Elder more and more. Not sure where he's being mocked but I'd start considering him in the 3rd. Moreau is another day 2 guy I like. 

I'll obviously trust the FO's evaluations over my own if they take a CB at 16. 

But I think I've convinced myself that if Barnett or either of the top 2 safeties for sure, Williams/Davis, and maybe even Takk/Harris, Fournette or OJ Howard are there i may consider them over many of the CBs. 

A month ago I was sure that if any of 3-4 CBs were there that's the pick to make. But not so sure anymore. I'm seeing some sure fire playmakers at other positions, and seeing more questions in a lot of the CBs... plus the fact that I don't see huge drop off between the say top 4-5 and the next 4-5... we may be better off grabbing corner day 2.

Which id be completely fine with as long as we got one of the day 2 dbs, especially if one of the better ones like Conley or king falls - I would be literally salivating if one of those 2 was there at 47

just thinking about Barnett and Conley is exciting even if it's unlikely

[KBoum]

15 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Hooker is the only one with the slightest chance of being there but he most likely won't be.

Yeah I know that all I'm saying is those are my 4 favorite prospects the Ravens could really use. Hooker could be a range ball hawking safety ala Reed. What the Ravens lacked. He's got some fundamentals to work on and he would probably need a year to learn the playbook I agree but the skills are there.

[Jacquouille]

I finally got to see Marcus Williams and I must say I really liked what I saw. Some mistakes but he has the IQ and the range, along with some ball skills and good fundamentals. Another guy to watch for our 2nd round.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Can anyone give me an opinion on Howard Wilson - Houston, CB? 

From the little I've seen I'm starting to like him. But not sure where he projects. Is he back end of that 2nd group (Conley, Jackson, Lewis, White, Tank, King maybe Moreau) or is he step back from them? 

Raw for sure. Looks like a solid to very good athlete. Level of competition is worrisome, and looked like he played a lot of bail coverage against Oklahoma, which is the only clips ive seen against him lined up across from a legit NFL prospect.

[ravensnation5220]

Just now, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Can anyone give me an opinion on Howard Wilson - Houston, CB? 

From the little I've seen I'm starting to like him. But not sure where he projects. Is he back end of that 2nd group (Conley, Jackson, Lewis, White, Tank, King maybe Moreau) or is he step back from them? 

Raw for sure. Looks like a solid to very good athlete. Level of competition is worrisome, and looked like he played a lot of bail coverage against Oklahoma, which is the only clips ive seen against him lined up across from a legit NFL prospect.

I like him. He has that height and length you like in corners. He had a really productive year last year with 5 picks and 10 PD. The year prior however he had a season ending injury, not sure what it was but it's something to look at. With a good combine he could vault a bit as William Jackson did who also went to Houston. I see him as a 3rd/4th rounder though for now but like I sadi, with a good combine he could climb. It's just tough cause there's so many good corners in this class but he's 6'1 so he does have that going for him

[Jacquouille]

3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Can anyone give me an opinion on Howard Wilson - Houston, CB? 

From the little I've seen I'm starting to like him. But not sure where he projects. Is he back end of that 2nd group (Conley, Jackson, Lewis, White, Tank, King maybe Moreau) or is he step back from them? 

Raw for sure. Looks like a solid to very good athlete. Level of competition is worrisome, and looked like he played a lot of bail coverage against Oklahoma, which is the only clips ive seen against him lined up across from a legit NFL prospect.

I just watched him for the first time yesterday and while I can't form a real report, I liked his tape. Passes the first eye test, I'll be sure to watch all his tape.

[trevorsteadman]

As much as I hate to admit it because people know I advocate against smaller corners.... Sojourn Shelton is the real deal. For those who have not seen his highlights I think you should. He is 5'9 but he plays like he is 6'3. He is aggressive like Tavon Young but I feel like this guy positions himself and attacks the ball better than Tavon does. While I wouldn't advocate ever putting him against a taller receiver unless really necessary I think this guy is a remarkable talent and if he is there in the 3rd round due to his size I think you pick him up. Sojourn Shelton is my new draft crush.

[Davesta]

I think I would rather wait til round 2 or 3 to draft a cb than reach for one in round 1. These recent drafts, no real "shutdown" corner came out of round 1. Just feels like with today's passing game, corners are being drafted higher than they should be. I would rather take a edge rusher like Derek Barnett or Charles Harris over any corner besides marshon lattimore. Then come round 2 with a guy like tre'davious white. Just feels like it's easier to find a cornerback later than a edge rusher. 

[ravefan52]

We definitely don't need to draft a CB in the 1st. This class is so deep there's going to be good ones selected in every round

[trevorsteadman]

5 hours ago, Davesta said:

I think I would rather wait til round 2 or 3 to draft a cb than reach for one in round 1. These recent drafts, no real "shutdown" corner came out of round 1. Just feels like with today's passing game, corners are being drafted higher than they should be. I would rather take a edge rusher like Derek Barnett or Charles Harris over any corner besides marshon lattimore. Then come round 2 with a guy like tre'davious white. Just feels like it's easier to find a cornerback later than a edge rusher. 

I would agree I think there are plenty of 3rd round talent in this draft that is just as good. Harris will be the 2nd DE taken after his combine.

My dream draft...

1. Harris 2. Kupp 3. King 3. Shelton

[rossihunter2]

2 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

I would agree I think there are plenty of 3rd round talent in this draft that is just as good. Harris will be the 2nd DE taken after his combine.

My dream draft...

1. Harris 2. Kupp 3. King 3. Shelton

No offense but I'd hate that draft lol

[Edgar]

On 2/27/2017 at 9:56 AM, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Can anyone give me an opinion on Howard Wilson - Houston, CB? 

From the little I've seen I'm starting to like him. But not sure where he projects. Is he back end of that 2nd group (Conley, Jackson, Lewis, White, Tank, King maybe Moreau) or is he step back from them? 

Raw for sure. Looks like a solid to very good athlete. Level of competition is worrisome, and looked like he played a lot of bail coverage against Oklahoma, which is the only clips ive seen against him lined up across from a legit NFL prospect.

Wilson is a legit corner prospect. Tape shows him mainly in off man and zone coverage. Saw only two plays in three games of him playing press.

Fast. Reads QB well and reacts quickly. Plays the ball well in the air.

Not at all shy about stuffing the run. One of the more physical corners in this draft.  I think he goes late two, early three.

I had him mocked to us a few weeks ago but I think his stock will elevate post combine.