JoeyFlex5

2017 DB Thread

514 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

On a scale of important qualities that corners should have, run support is definitely near the bottom.

I'd 100% say this will be team dependant. 

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20 hours ago, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

What do you guys think about the cornerback Cam Sutton out of Tennessee? I know he was injured pretty much all season, but he was did great this week at the Senior Bowl and even played Safety showing his versatility.

He was one of my favourite guys a couple years back and thought he would be a sure fire top 10 pick at the time. His play and injuries have really slipped but I think he helped himself a lot at the senior bowl. I think it was Mayock or someone saying the coaches raved about him being able to soak in the playbook and be a leader/knower on the field. I think this point should not be underestimated enough, as much as people call Pees scheming vanilla it is far from that and he asks players to know a lot. We have had troubles in the past with players not being able to pick up the playbook and it seems like he would have no issue here--which is big to me as that is needed first to even sniff the field. Given the DB depth I think late 3rd to 4th+ is where he fits, but I can see him outplaying his draft position

 

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I must say Marshon lattimore tape vs Michigan is pretty sub par. He does show some physicality though. I still think he's one of the top corners but this tape isn't really anything special

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25 minutes ago, Dewy101 said:

My ideal DB in the first round is either Cordrea Tankersley or Quincy Wilson

i dont even think tankersley is worth it at our 2nd pick if im honest - the more i watch him the less i like him

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1 hour ago, Dewy101 said:

My ideal DB in the first round is either Cordrea Tankersley or Quincy Wilson

I can't say I've heard Tankersley mentioned anywhere but the second, but he's one of my favorites.

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16 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

On a scale of important qualities that corners should have, run support is definitely near the bottom.

Teams want coverage abilities, good footwork, ball skills, length, fluidity, press ability, sound tacklers,etc. Being good in run support is just an extra. Sometimes it's better if the corners aren't super physical in the run game because they sustain injuries such as Jimmy Smith did vs NE and Giants this year, plus Bengals last year. 

I think run support is an important quality because it can be indicative of strength, tackling ability, and effort, and how important those qualities are certainly depend on the prospect. Show me a press CB that can't help in run support and I flat out don't want him, if you can't tackle when you're left on an island then that's an issue, that was my biggest problem with Rasul Douglas leading up to the Senior Bowl - he's somewhat quelled those concerns though, he seems like he can tackle better than his tape would indicate and he showed a more willingness to do it during the Senior Bowl.

As far as other CBs though, I'd agree it isn't the most important quality so long as they display a willingness to do it. If they can't help in run support AND they aren't particularly willing to then I'm not interested, effort and showing that you're willing to do all of the jobs your position requires are important and run defending is pretty much the job I'd use to determine whether a player will put in effort or not. Webb is kind of the perfect example of that, throughout his career he's been more than willing to stick his nose in there and try to make the tackle, he's never been amazing at it but the effort is very apparent.

Edited by hn68wb4
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14 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

I'm ashamed to say I still haven't watched either of the OSU CBs

im a little jealous that you get to watch them for the firts time because it's a lot of fun - especially with malik hooker behind them as well

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Jabrill Peppers is a gamble with super high upside ! The speed to cover the field like Ed Reed and the speed of a young Ray Lewis.

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40 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

im a little jealous that you get to watch them for the firts time because it's a lot of fun - especially with malik hooker behind them as well

I actually have watched Hooker a couple times during the season, it's just those CBs that I keep procrastinating on, I'm just tired of watching CBs in this class, might as well just throw all of their names in a hat and draw one and we'll be fine.

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1 hour ago, hn68wb4 said:

I actually have watched Hooker a couple times during the season, it's just those CBs that I keep procrastinating on, I'm just tired of watching CBs in this class, might as well just throw all of their names in a hat and draw one and we'll be fine.

haha - these were my favourite two to watch, i thought gareon conley looked a little like tavon young but bigger with slightly worse hips and marshon lattimore looks so fluid especially in man - i enjoy watching good college defenses with lots of prospects... its been an absolute joy to watch the OSU secondary and the Bama front 7 this year

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2 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

I'm ashamed to say I still haven't watched either of the OSU CBs

Watch lattimore and pay attention to his feet, and see how easily the receiver are rerouted and thrown off of their path, and see what happens when the receiver finally gets a lane to run, he is glued to his guy like nobodies business. 

I cant say I've ever watched a corner and been almost in awe of how excellent his all around game is.

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2 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

I think run support is an important quality because it can be indicative of strength, tackling ability, and effort, and how important those qualities are certainly depend on the prospect. Show me a press CB that can't help in run support and I flat out don't want him, if you can't tackle when you're left on an island then that's an issue, that was my biggest problem with Rasul Douglas leading up to the Senior Bowl - he's somewhat quelled those concerns though, he seems like he can tackle better than his tape would indicate and he showed a more willingness to do it during the Senior Bowl.

As far as other CBs though, I'd agree it isn't the most important quality so long as they display a willingness to do it. If they can't help in run support AND they aren't particularly willing to then I'm not interested, effort and showing that you're willing to do all of the jobs your position requires are important and run defending is pretty much the job I'd use to determine whether a player will put in effort or not. Webb is kind of the perfect example of that, throughout his career he's been more than willing to stick his nose in there and try to make the tackle, he's never been amazing at it but the effort is very apparent.

I agree 100% if your a football player show me. You have pads for a reason so use them and hit someone for crying out loud. I know not many people here don't see tackling as an issue for corners but I at least want to see you try and hit someone and seek contact. It's a pet peeve of mine to see corners avoid tackling. Jalen Tabor and cordrea tankersly (quincy wilson at times) are 2 guys that consistently avoid tackling it's honestly agrrivating. Tredavious white does struggle with tackling but he's at least willing to put his nose in there and give some pursuit on the play. He's not a great tackler like I said but at least he gives some effort. That's all I'm really asking for in a corner 

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6 hours ago, Dewy101 said:

My ideal DB in the first round is either Cordrea Tankersley or Quincy Wilson

Outside of measurables, Tankersley isn't in the top tier of CBs in this class. 

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Quincy Wilson is the guy I see on the board still when our pick roles around, although Sidney Jones may be too, in which I'd take Jones. Quincy and Jimmy on the outside would be awesome; they'd be two huge cover corners! However, if we were to play the Pats, all their WRs are small and shifty, so we wouldn't match up too well.

Tavon in the slot is going to be awesome. 

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46 minutes ago, AnthonyGames said:

Quincy Wilson is the guy I see on the board still when our pick roles around, although Sidney Jones may be too, in which I'd take Jones. Quincy and Jimmy on the outside would be awesome; they'd be two huge cover corners! However, if we were to play the Pats, all their WRs are small and shifty, so we wouldn't match up too well.

Tavon in the slot is going to be awesome. 

I think it was listed on Walter Football that Quincy Wilson played in the slot before he became a starter, so he has some type of experience going against those smaller types of WRs.

Edited by Darhk_Raven
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When playing the pats the issue isn't covering small shifty receivers, because only Edelman and amendola(who is essentially a backup at this point) are small and shifty. Chris hogan, Malcolm Mitchell, and Michael Floyd are big bodied guys, the shiftiness isn't why their receivers get open, it's the scheme. These guys are schemed open by running routes at different depths, keeping guys close together and then breaking them off in separate directions, it causes clutter in the secondary and guys get lost or break off to cover the wrong guy. 

If you wanna talk about stopping the patriots, you need he savviest corners, not the quickest. You need guys who can cover from different depths, so you can have one guy jam and the other guy sitting back waiting to pick up the route, guys who don't get mixed up and communicate well. 

In this case, if we're worried about stopping the pats, or the steelers who run basically the same philosophy, tre white is the best bet for immediate production, he's feisty up front and he's smart and never gets confused by varying routes breaking in front of him. Sidney jones will probably handle this well also. The rest of the guys you just have to hope can develop enough mentally to handle these concepts and at that point it becomes a crap shoot

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11 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

When playing the pats the issue isn't covering small shifty receivers, because only Edelman and amendola(who is essentially a backup at this point) are small and shifty. Chris hogan, Malcolm Mitchell, and Michael Floyd are big bodied guys, the shiftiness isn't why their receivers get open, it's the scheme. These guys are schemed open by running routes at different depths, keeping guys close together and then breaking them off in separate directions, it causes clutter in the secondary and guys get lost or break off to cover the wrong guy. 

If you wanna talk about stopping the patriots, you need he savviest corners, not the quickest. You need guys who can cover from different depths, so you can have one guy jam and the other guy sitting back waiting to pick up the route, guys who don't get mixed up and communicate well. 

In this case, if we're worried about stopping the pats, or the steelers who run basically the same philosophy, tre white is the best bet for immediate production, he's feisty up front and he's smart and never gets confused by varying routes breaking in front of him. Sidney jones will probably handle this well also. The rest of the guys you just have to hope can develop enough mentally to handle these concepts and at that point it becomes a crap shoot

I would actually add Marlon Humphrey as an incredibly smart and aware corner.

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1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I would actually add Marlon Humphrey as an incredibly smart and aware corner.

I haven't watched enough of him to diagnose this. I'll take your word though lol

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14 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

When playing the pats the issue isn't covering small shifty receivers, because only Edelman and amendola(who is essentially a backup at this point) are small and shifty. Chris hogan, Malcolm Mitchell, and Michael Floyd are big bodied guys, the shiftiness isn't why their receivers get open, it's the scheme. These guys are schemed open by running routes at different depths, keeping guys close together and then breaking them off in separate directions, it causes clutter in the secondary and guys get lost or break off to cover the wrong guy. 

If you wanna talk about stopping the patriots, you need he savviest corners, not the quickest. You need guys who can cover from different depths, so you can have one guy jam and the other guy sitting back waiting to pick up the route, guys who don't get mixed up and communicate well. 

In this case, if we're worried about stopping the pats, or the steelers who run basically the same philosophy, tre white is the best bet for immediate production, he's feisty up front and he's smart and never gets confused by varying routes breaking in front of him. Sidney jones will probably handle this well also. The rest of the guys you just have to hope can develop enough mentally to handle these concepts and at that point it becomes a crap shoot

the more i watch sidney jones the more i like him - he just looks so accomplished already - i feel like im saying that about a lot of the corners... so far ive had that reaction to lattimore, jones, conley, white and wilson

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17 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

the more i watch sidney jones the more i like him - he just looks so accomplished already - i feel like im saying that about a lot of the corners... so far ive had that reaction to lattimore, jones, conley, white and wilson

Lattimore is the best corner imo and it's not close, but I think jones and white are the most polished and savvy, they can be bypassed with good coaching though, which is where the talent level of guys like lattimore and Wilson could easily pull ahead

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According to Walter Football Malik Hooker is going to be out 4-6 months After having hernia and labrum surgery.

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18 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I haven't watched enough of him to diagnose this. I'll take your word though lol

I think that's just a large product of Saban, but he just seems to understand he isn't the most fluid or agile and makes up for it with route recognition and spacial awareness.

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Tankersly and Tabor wouldn't even be on my board. 

Jones-Lattimore -and Wilson are my favorite... and in that order.

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Voch Lombardi did a analysis on adoree Jackson and his ideas really caught my attention. Why not play him at FS? He's got excellent range, likes to tackle and has ball skills. He's better when he has space to read and react and as a corner he has very sloppy footwork. I never thought of it but adoree at safety is very intriguing 

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5 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think that's just a large product of Saban, but he just seems to understand he isn't the most fluid or agile and makes up for it with route recognition and spacial awareness.

He does have good feet however. I think he would fit best in a tampa 2 or a cover 3 defense. He's better suited for zone coverage. He has the ability to play press but the issue is he panics once his back is to the qb. 

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56 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Voch Lombardi did a analysis on adoree Jackson and his ideas really caught my attention. Why not play him at FS? He's got excellent range, likes to tackle and has ball skills. He's better when he has space to read and react and as a corner he has very sloppy footwork. I never thought of it but adoree at safety is very intriguing 

I'd like him a lot better at safety than CB, in fact I don't like him at CB at all really. At safety he can probably get away with a bit more, so he can get some time right away behind Weddle and Webb. Though one of the things that I hate about Jackson on tape is that sometimes he bites really hard on play action and pump fakes and if he doesn't get more disciplined about that then he's going to get killed at safety.

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3 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

I'd like him a lot better at safety than CB, in fact I don't like him at CB at all really. At safety he can probably get away with a bit more, so he can get some time right away behind Weddle and Webb. Though one of the things that I hate about Jackson on tape is that sometimes he bites really hard on play action and pump fakes and if he doesn't get more disciplined about that then he's going to get killed at safety.

Right that's why I'd just give him some time behind Webb for the year and just let him play a limited role his rookie year and let him be our return man while we mold him. You can play him as a single high at times and make the center feild his responsibility so he doesn't have the choice to even think about biting. 

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11 hours ago, January J said:

Tankersly and Tabor wouldn't even be on my board. 

Jones-Lattimore -and Wilson are my favorite... and in that order.

I agree. Tabor is so undiscipline in coverage and gets to grabby and often blows his coverage by jumping unnecessary routes. 

Tank just doesn't look that solid on tape until round 3

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