2017 DB Thread

[BmoreBird22]

19 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I probably shouldn't do this but I pay very little attention to a corners tackling ability. Which is weird because I graded Derek Barnett as a 2nd rounder originally because of his bad tackling... I should begin paying more attention to that

Well, you're not really paying a corner tons of money to tackle a running back. You're paying him to cover and Wilson allowed 17 completions on the year.

[rmw10]

8 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

My only complaint is he hasn't gotten many zone reps and he few times I saw it was pretty bad, like he didn't appear to have a clue what to do. 

Man coberage though good god he's amazing

I'd disagree with that.  They certainly don't employ him in zone much, but he looks plenty capable to me.  I found a guy on Twitter last night that had some pretty good cut ups of him in many different situations.  He looked smart and disciplined to me.

[JoeyFlex5]

19 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I'd disagree with that.  They certainly don't employ him in zone much, but he looks plenty capable to me.  I found a guy on Twitter last night that had some pretty good cut ups of him in many different situations.  He looked smart and disciplined to me.

This was just based on what I've seen which was only his game vs Oklahoma. He had 1 zone call that I can remember and he blew his assignment big time, it luckily led to nothing but he definitely could've given up a very long TD if the qb saw it. I just recently got around to checking him out.

 

26 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Well, you're not really paying a corner tons of money to tackle a running back. You're paying him to cover and Wilson allowed 17 completions on the year.

Agreed. Which is why I don't account for Run support at all in a corner. But as far as making the tackle on pass plays that's something that shouldn't be ignored, I mean hell we've seen our defense get torched in the pass because top down coverage fails miserably when the corners aren't tackling. 

[JoeyFlex5]

36 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Ya. Watching the tape was frustrating to say the least. I looked at white too and i think he has even more uncalled holding plays, he does do a good job of making it go unseen but some refs will catch on. Have you taken your second look at Humphrey yet? 

I haven't but I don't see me changing my mind on Humphrey. I don't like sacrificing fluidity for size just to press receivers, he's far too stiff for my liking. 

And yeah white gets handsy but he's subtle, a good trait is actually knowing when and how to hold without getting caught easily, some of the veteran corners do it well, Ladarius Webb is a guy I like to point out as a guy who holds and interferes very lightly and doesn't get called for it often, as a corner he had a lot of little wrist slaps that prevented his man from getting his hands up and he almost never got called for it. I see white doing that same kinda stuff. Tabor is just blatant with it

[RaineV1]

4 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I like elder myself. He's a hell of an athlete, he looks so reckless on film though is my only concern, I could see his fundamentals breaking down a good bit

I think he'll get more disciplined with time and experience. I'd love to have him as depth if nothing else.

[JoeyFlex5]

5 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

I think he'll get more disciplined with time and experience. I'd love to have him as depth if nothing else.

My thing with depth corners is that the last thing you want from those guys is a lack of fundamentals and discipline. You don't want a corner to step in in a pinch and break down, you at least want a steady safe player there even if they aren't gonna make splash plays. 

However, a guy with that kind of explosiveness would be nice to have for 5 db packages. I'm up and down on him but if he's there in the 5th I'd take a flyer on him

[BmoreBird22]

Matt Miller spoke to scouts who think Tre White could go top 20 and will definitely be a first round pick after this week at the Senior Bowl.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Matt Miller spoke to scouts who think Tre White could go top 20 and will definitely be a first round pick after this week at the Senior Bowl.

As should be the case. How he was ever regarded as anything lower than a first round talent is beyond me. 

[ravensnation5220]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

As should be the case. How he was ever regarded as anything lower than a first round talent is beyond me. 

I've actually took another look at him. I really like what I see and his consistency. He's a 4 year starter so he has a lot of playing experience unlike others in this class and had his best season last year. He really refined his technique and he works at his craft. He's amazing with those invisible holding calls that he gets away with all the time. Plays the ball well although he does drop a few picks but I'm not too worried about a corner having great hands, that's why they're corners lol. Good student and teammate, you know how I like prospects with high character so count me in

[Willbacker]

8 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Matt Miller spoke to scouts who think Tre White could go top 20 and will definitely be a first round pick after this week at the Senior Bowl.

 

5 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

As should be the case. How he was ever regarded as anything lower than a first round talent is beyond me. 

Funny you told me when I wanted to draft him in the 1st rd that I wasn't making no sense. I call bullschtein. Pg 9. Edge rusher thread. Third from bottom.

[BmoreBird22]

7 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

 

Funny you told me when I wanted to draft him in the 1st rd that I wasn't making no sense. I call bullschtein. Pg 9. Edge rusher thread. Third from bottom.

If I had coffee, I'd spit it out at this.

[Willbacker]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

If I had coffee, I'd spit it out at this.

Thank gawd cuz you don't need that on your keyboard.

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, Willbacker said:

Thank gawd cuz you don't need that on your keyboard.

I'd be upset because that's currently my only laptop in the house.

[Willbacker]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'd be upset because that's currently my only laptop in the house.

I really like White. He's a good coverage guy and really could add to our spteams. I was probally reaching a little too high for Charlton in the 2nd rd tho  but he really reminds me of Suggs since he seems like a really good runstopper besides his passrush abilities.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Willbacker said:

 

Funny you told me when I wanted to draft him in the 1st rd that I wasn't making no sense. I call bullschtein. Pg 9. Edge rusher thread. Third from bottom.

i was referring to where his stock had been floating around at lol. all outlets had him pegged in the 2nd round which i never agreed with. you can look back to last year when the media thought he was declaring, i had him as a first rounder then, and i have had him as a first round talent all year. 

im sure most regular posters on the draft forums could back me up on this, ive been one of tre whites biggest fans for 2 years now.

3 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I've actually took another look at him. I really like what I see and his consistency. He's a 4 year starter so he has a lot of playing experience unlike others in this class and had his best season last year. He really refined his technique and he works at his craft. He's amazing with those invisible holding calls that he gets away with all the time. Plays the ball well although he does drop a few picks but I'm not too worried about a corner having great hands, that's why they're corners lol. Good student and teammate, you know how I like prospects with high character so count me in

yeah i think hes probably the safest bet of all the cbs, considering hes faced SEC competition longer than any of these other cb prospects and has been playing at a high level consistently longer as well. if anything youre getting a guy who isnt scared of the leap because theyre practically a veteran at this point anyway. not too many high profile players play at a first or second round level for 3+ years in college against top competition. quite frankly with him doing this for so long his hype should be through the roof based on anticipation alone. i dont know how the guy has been pegged as a 2nd rounder this whole offseason.

[ravensnation5220]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i was referring to where his stock had been floating around at lol. all outlets had him pegged in the 2nd round which i never agreed with. you can look back to last year when the media thought he was declaring, i had him as a first rounder then, and i have had him as a first round talent all year. 

im sure most regular posters on the draft forums could back me up on this, ive been one of tre whites biggest fans for 2 years now.

yeah i think hes probably the safest bet of all the cbs, considering hes faced SEC competition longer than any of these other cb prospects and has been playing at a high level consistently longer as well. if anything youre getting a guy who isnt scared of the leap because theyre practically a veteran at this point anyway. not too many high profile players play at a first or second round level for 3+ years in college against top competition. quite frankly with him doing this for so long his hype should be through the roof based on anticipation alone. i dont know how the guy has been pegged as a 2nd rounder this whole offseason.

I think it's the crowded class he's in. He's kinda the forgotten one with all the hype going towards new guys like Wilson and lattimore. I'm very wary on them because they don't have the proven consistency other corners have in this class. 

[BmoreBird22]

On 1/2/2017 at 8:01 PM, Sizzlebshu said:

The titans traded down to 15 with the Rams. They then wasted picks and traded up to take Jack Conklin. At 15, they could have taken Taylor Decker who has been a similar caliber of player, but costs roughly half the draft value. 

Super late on this, but pretty sure Jack Conklin was PFF's top rated RT and was one of the biggest reasons they had a turnaround as one of the best offensive lines in football. Decker was pretty much solid all season, but Conklin was elite all season.

[Gruntled Ravens Fan]

Why is Jalen Tabor not being looked at with our draft pick? Here's what Profootballfocus has to say about him. "The depth at cornerback bodes well for the Jets as they may dip into the pool multiple times, but they start with Tabor who has the size and playmaking ability that head coach Todd Bowles needs for his system. He’s had either an interception or a pass breakup on 26.5 percent of his targets, well above the national average, and he’s capable of playing tight man coverage or breaking on the ball quickly in “off” coverage. Tabor’s aggressive style can get him into trouble at times, but he may be the best playmaker in the loaded cornerback class." I don't really know much about him, but I still don't understand the dislike of him. 

I got that report of PFF's mock draft, here's the link if anyones interested. https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-college-football-trubisky-bears-pff-2017-mock-draft/

[ravensnation5220]

7 minutes ago, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

Why is Jalen Tabor not being looked at with our draft pick? Here's what Profootballfocus has to say about him. "The depth at cornerback bodes well for the Jets as they may dip into the pool multiple times, but they start with Tabor who has the size and playmaking ability that head coach Todd Bowles needs for his system. He’s had either an interception or a pass breakup on 26.5 percent of his targets, well above the national average, and he’s capable of playing tight man coverage or breaking on the ball quickly in “off” coverage. Tabor’s aggressive style can get him into trouble at times, but he may be the best playmaker in the loaded cornerback class." I don't really know much about him, but I still don't understand the dislike of him. 

I got that report of PFF's mock draft, here's the link if anyones interested. https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-college-football-trubisky-bears-pff-2017-mock-draft/

He has no discipline to his game. He literally bites on everything. One pick six he had, I forget against who, he baited the qb like 3 or 4 times in a row and the qb still threw it his direction. He's terribly coached as a tackler, flies by with his head down and even though he's 200 pounds, he just seems to be afraid of contact, looks like he avoids it at times. And the level of competition has to be a question. The best qbs he faced in his career are Chad Kelly and Joshua Dobbs, and Dobbs torched Floridas DBs. Also has some off the feild issues, he has some attitude problems. 

Edited January 21 by ravensnation5220

[Gruntled Ravens Fan]

3 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

He has no discipline to his game. He literally bites on everything. One pick six he had, I forget against who, he baited the qb like 3 or 4 times in a row and the qb still threw it his direction. He's terribly coached as a tackler, flies by with his head down and even though he's 200 pounds, he just seems to be afraid of contact, looks like he avoids it at times. And the level of competition has to be a question. The best qbs he faced in his career are Chad Kelly and Joshua Dobbs, and Dobbs torched Floridas DBs. Also has some off the feild issues, he has some attitude problems. 

Oh I didn't know that, I was just going off what PFF said about him. 

[ravensnation5220]

3 minutes ago, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

Oh I didn't know that, I was just going off what PFF said about him. 

Although I like pff I can't agree with them on everything, they have cordrea tankersly as their 4th best prospect on their big board

[Gruntled Ravens Fan]

2 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Although I like pff I can't agree with them on everything, they have cordrea tankersly as their 4th best prospect on their big board

He's good, but not that good. And they have us taking Tim Williams with our first pick, which probably won't happen now that everyone knows about his failed drug tests.

[ravensnation5220]

Just now, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

He's good, but not that good. And they have us taking Tim Williams with our first pick, which probably won't happen now that everyone knows about his failed drug tests.

I still think we need more info on that. I'm waiting to see if he fails his combine drug test to have a stronger opinion of him off the feild 

[Gruntled Ravens Fan]

3 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I still think we need more info on that. I'm waiting to see if he fails his combine drug test to have a stronger opinion of him off the feild 

Yeah I'm interested in hearing his character interviews. I know I'm in the wrong board, but in my opinion I think we should target an offensive line player with our first pick and try to be like Dallas and making life easier for Flacco, instead of having a strong defense like Seattle but having an offensive line that makes their offense struggle mightily.

[Darhk_Raven]

32 minutes ago, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

Yeah I'm interested in hearing his character interviews. I know I'm in the wrong board, but in my opinion I think we should target an offensive line player with our first pick and try to be like Dallas and making life easier for Flacco, instead of having a strong defense like Seattle but having an offensive line that makes their offense struggle mightily.

You would be reaching if you did that, most people don't have more than two Oline players ranked in the top 20. Miller doesn't have his first Oline man prospect until #37.

[ravensnation5220]

5 minutes ago, Darhk_Raven said:

You would be reaching if you did that, most people don't have more than two Oline players ranked in the top 20. Miller doesn't have his first Oline man prospect until #37.

I'd have to agree. We can rebuild the oline without picking one in the first round. There's plenty of options elsewhere and Robinson, although talented isn't the best option at 16

[ravensnation5220]

I still don't understand how lattimore is the considered a top 10 pick and the best corner in the class. To me there's not enough experience, he hasn't even really played great receivers. They played Clemson but Mike Williams wasn't as involved in that game much. Clemson had a great game plan in that game and it kinda neutralized their corners so that tape is hard to study. But my point is clear. The best receiver he faced was dede westbrook who I don't think is that great anways

I still think he's extremely talented and I myself have him ranked in my top 10 but I have to question if we're getting ahead of ourselves. A prospect can rise and fall really quickly with any flaw. Last year deshaun watson was viewed as the top pick after he lost the national championship, he won it this year, yet some view him as the 3rd best qb in the draft. I feel like there's this major hype train going on with lattimore who's a 1 year starter....

Edited January 21 by ravensnation5220

[rmw10]

29 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I still don't understand how lattimore is the considered a top 10 pick and the best corner in the class. To me there's not enough experience, he hasn't even really played great receivers. They played Clemson but Mike Williams wasn't as involved in that game much. Clemson had a great game plan in that game and it kinda neutralized their corners so that tape is hard to study. But my point is clear. The best receiver he faced was dede westbrook who I don't think is that great anways

I still think he's extremely talented and I myself have him ranked in my top 10 but I have to question if we're getting ahead of ourselves. A prospect can rise and fall really quickly with any flaw. Last year deshaun watson was viewed as the top pick after he lost the national championship, he won it this year, yet some view him as the 3rd best qb in the draft. I feel like there's this major hype train going on with lattimore who's a 1 year starter....

Traits. I don't care who he faced. When you see a guy that can mirror as well as he can, a guy that can flip his hips, a guy that stays disciplined, etc, it doesn't matter who he faced. He's very developed in a lot of facets of his game, even with limited experience. 

[Gruntled Ravens Fan]

47 minutes ago, Darhk_Raven said:

You would be reaching if you did that, most people don't have more than two Oline players ranked in the top 20. Miller doesn't have his first Oline man prospect until #37.

I did not know that. On another note, what do you guys think about Budda Baker the safety from Washington? To me he looks like a young Earl Thomas.

[ravensnation5220]

10 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Traits. I don't care who he faced. When you see a guy that can mirror as well as he can, a guy that can flip his hips, a guy that stays disciplined, etc, it doesn't matter who he faced. He's very developed in a lot of facets of his game, even with limited experience. 

Ya I know what you mean but you never get to see him improve or anything, your basing everything you see off one years tape which sometimes isn't enough time to show his flaws