2017 DB Thread

[JoeyFlex5]

just watched lattimore for the first time, only watched one game but im really impressed with him. 

i counted 3 bad plays in coverage, 2 were inconsequential. one was an early hold that went uncalled because he stutter stepped at the snap and had to recover, the other he tripped up going downfield on a fly route, the other he second guessed himself on a zone assignment when the LB had the RB in the flat and he jumped it and let the wr run downfield, the qb didnt look his way though.

he failed to get off the block on a reverse and gave up another 20 yards or so, but recovered to make the tackle downfield. 

aside from that he was stellar vs oklahoma, he appeared beaten on a really deep crossing route which the qb extended the play to a good 6-7 seconds in the backfield, the receiver got just one step to the right and top of him and baker mayfield led him decently on the throw, but lattimore showed an incredible burst of speed while already in full sprint and beat the receiver to the well placed ball for an amazing pick. 

later, a ball was thrown way over both of their heads but lattimore played it like a receiver, he laid out and extended for a spectacular diving catch. 

other than that he was untargeted all night for good reason, his man was absolutely blanketed, he pressed well and re-routed his man every time he attempted it, he was in the pocket on every tight man snap, never gave up an inch except for downfield situations in which case he gave very little space. he shows a good ability to prepare himself for any route, his footwork at the snap shows that he is reading the receiver and reading right, he mirrors the receivers every move, all the subtle twitches etc. are mirrored exactly, and when its time to get upfield he turns his hips quickly and confidently, good downfield speed, shifts momentum with ease when running stride for stride with a WR who makes a cut. i didnt see many, if any off-man snaps, he was mostly in tight or press which is fine because he excels there, and i did see him have a big mental lapse with one of the few zone snaps he played, so scheme diversity so far is a big issue for him, but as far as tight/press man coverage goes hes top tier for sure. 

personally i think he would be best served to return for another season, hes a top 10 pick, maybe top 5 type of cb if he develops his zone and off-man game. as of now i would take him at 16 in a heartbeat and hope he develops because that is a shutdown man cover corner, at least from what ive seen.

Edited January 18 by JoeyFlex5

[JoeyFlex5]

6 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Before anything else, have you watched Conley? Not intending to be mean, I just never read your opinion about him so I'd be interested. You know I'm a bit cold recently on Jones, really liked him coming into the season but going back to the tape he looked slow despite having fluid hips and definitely elite ball skills. 

Conley is so quick in his movements and he's a bit more raw than Jones but his ceiling is huge.

i watched conleys clemson tape for the first time and man, did he get abused. i think it was the penn state tape i watched where he looked good before but im not certain. conley seriously got so lucky so many times in that game, he would be getting slandered by the media right now if: 

-watson didnt lead mike williams too far inside on that early endzone shot because williams whose speed is not amazing, toasted conley in a short range. 

-malik hooker didnt save him on that endzone shot to the TE and make that awesome pick 

-the front seven didnt bail him out when renfrow left him grasping at air on his route, that was pathetic on conley. 

probably just a rough game from him, i cant blame competition because these guys werent beating him he was flat out playing awful. ill go back and watch some more though.

[ravefan52]

So many CB's to study, so many to like. At least one is very likely to be BPA early. Right now my top guys are 

1 Lattimore

2 Wilson

3 Jones

4 Tankersly

5 White

I also seem to like Jackson, J Lewis and Elder more than most. People have pretty mixed opinions on Adoree as a CB, but his return skills alone are going to make him a steal. He will change so many games because of it.

Edited January 24 by ravefan52

[ravensnation5220]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i like conley, i gave him a quick watch about a week or so ago and came away impressed, but i would have to watch again to give a specific opinion on his traits and what not. he appeared to  be a first round talent at first glance, but watching sidney jones at first glance i was more than impressed, i declared him my top corner after watching 3 games about midway through the season and havent budged on that stance since(which is rare for me because im always flip flopping). 

ill give him and lattimore another watch when i get a chance and ill get back to you on this

I didn't want to quote your long text on lattimore.

He played that crossing route extremely well. He really baited Mayfield into throwing it. That's what impressed me most from a 1 year starter. It was slightly behind the receiver but he still showed that incredible recovery speed. I've also noticed it almost looks like he's running the receivers routes for them. Oh and btw that diving pick he made was reviewed and it actually hit the ground. But still a great effort 

[JoeyFlex5]

37 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I didn't want to quote your long text on lattimore.

He played that crossing route extremely well. He really baited Mayfield into throwing it. That's what impressed me most from a 1 year starter. It was slightly behind the receiver but he still showed that incredible recovery speed. I've also noticed it almost looks like he's running the receivers routes for them. Oh and btw that diving pick he made was reviewed and it actually hit the ground. But still a great effort 

Yeah that's what I was getting at with his foot movements at the snap, he mirrors every little move his man makes at the same time. 

His tight man coverage is just so good based on that tape. 

[Jacquouille]

So, I started watching Kevin King... Waw.

[raven94]

15 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

just watched lattimore for the first time, only watched one game but im really impressed with him. 

i counted 3 bad plays in coverage, 2 were inconsequential. one was an early hold that went uncalled because he stutter stepped at the snap and had to recover, the other he tripped up going downfield on a fly route, the other he second guessed himself on a zone assignment when the LB had the RB in the flat and he jumped it and let the wr run downfield, the qb didnt look his way though.

he failed to get off the block on a reverse and gave up another 20 yards or so, but recovered to make the tackle downfield. 

aside from that he was stellar vs oklahoma, he appeared beaten on a really deep crossing route which the qb extended the play to a good 6-7 seconds in the backfield, the receiver got just one step to the right and top of him and baker mayfield led him decently on the throw, but lattimore showed an incredible burst of speed while already in full sprint and beat the receiver to the well placed ball for an amazing pick. 

later, a ball was thrown way over both of their heads but lattimore played it like a receiver, he laid out and extended for a spectacular diving catch. 

other than that he was untargeted all night for good reason, his man was absolutely blanketed, he pressed well and re-routed his man every time he attempted it, he was in the pocket on every tight man snap, never gave up an inch except for downfield situations in which case he gave very little space. he shows a good ability to prepare himself for any route, his footwork at the snap shows that he is reading the receiver and reading right, he mirrors the receivers every move, all the subtle twitches etc. are mirrored exactly, and when its time to get upfield he turns his hips quickly and confidently, good downfield speed, shifts momentum with ease when running stride for stride with a WR who makes a cut. i didnt see many, if any off-man snaps, he was mostly in tight or press which is fine because he excels there, and i did see him have a big mental lapse with one of the few zone snaps he played, so scheme diversity so far is a big issue for him, but as far as tight/press man coverage goes hes top tier for sure. 

personally i think he would be best served to return for another season, hes a top 10 pick, maybe top 5 type of cb if he develops his zone and off-man game. as of now i would take him at 16 in a heartbeat and hope he develops because that is a shutdown man cover corner, at least from what ive seen.

All draft declarations had to be in by Jan 16th. Marshon Lattimore said that he was entering the 2017 draft. I love him as a pick for the Ravens.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, raven94 said:

All draft declarations had to be in by Jan 16th. Marshon Lattimore said that he was entering the 2017 draft. I love him as a pick for the Ravens.

i do too. im definitely not the type who clamors for a physical press corner, i prefer guys who play zone and off-man with great instincts, anticipation, breaking speed, and ball skills. but marshon lattimore who doesnt fit my preferences for corner, looks special. i still like sidney jones a lot, and i was beginning to warm up to quincy wilson but hes definitely behind lattimore at this point for me. 

sidney jones fits my personal preferences as a super fluid guy who plays all schemes at a high level, but lattimore is definitely a better talent. 

[mc_red23]

On 1/14/2017 at 5:35 PM, ravensnation5220 said:

With all the corners in this class I think we have a good chance of getting an instant contributer to our team in the early rounds. It's hard to rank them since there's so many. I'll take a crack at trying to rank the top 10 based on the film I've seen. 

1. Marshon lattimore

2. Quincy Wilson

3. Sidney jones

4. Cordrea tankersly

5. Desmond king

6. Jalen Tabor

7. Adoree jackson

8. Marlon Humphrey

9. Jourdan Lewis

10. Gareon Conley

I didn't put any reasoning otherwise this post would be way too long. If you have questions on my rankings or just to make a comment go ahead. I'm all up for discussion 

Conley was the best CB available to me in the 2nd round on Fanspeak's mock draft. How plausible is it that he is our pick in the 2nd?

[Jacquouille]

38 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i do too. im definitely not the type who clamors for a physical press corner, i prefer guys who play zone and off-man with great instincts, anticipation, breaking speed, and ball skills. but marshon lattimore who doesnt fit my preferences for corner, looks special. i still like sidney jones a lot, and i was beginning to warm up to quincy wilson but hes definitely behind lattimore at this point for me. 

sidney jones fits my personal preferences as a super fluid guy who plays all schemes at a high level, but lattimore is definitely a better talent. 

Yeah after watching him again I'm not as convinced as I was before on Wilson. Particularly his tackling is horrid.

 

11 minutes ago, mc_red23 said:

Conley was the best CB available to me in the 2nd round on Fanspeak's mock draft. How plausible is it that he is our pick in the 2nd?

I wouldn't count on it, I think he goes in the 1st, maybe very early 2nd.

[JoeyFlex5]

24 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Yeah after watching him again I'm not as convinced as I was before on Wilson. Particularly his tackling is horrid.

 

I probably shouldn't do this but I pay very little attention to a corners tackling ability. Which is weird because I graded Derek Barnett as a 2nd rounder originally because of his bad tackling... I should begin paying more attention to that

[raven94]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i do too. im definitely not the type who clamors for a physical press corner, i prefer guys who play zone and off-man with great instincts, anticipation, breaking speed, and ball skills. but marshon lattimore who doesnt fit my preferences for corner, looks special. i still like sidney jones a lot, and i was beginning to warm up to quincy wilson but hes definitely behind lattimore at this point for me. 

sidney jones fits my personal preferences as a super fluid guy who plays all schemes at a high level, but lattimore is definitely a better talent. 

Well I too have preferences and I agree that I prefer someone who is fluid because that means they can handle good route runners (and maybe Antonio Brown a little) and it also means that they'll be in better position when the ball is in the air and they can make the play and they just adjust to the speed of the NFL better. Watching his film it seems to me that he has the potential and the capacity to develop tremendous fluidity to go along with his really long arms. On top of that it appears he has satisfactory quick twitch athleticism to really handle just about all types of NFL receivers. He's a suitable heir to Jimmy's spot as well as a great boundary CB while Jimmy is still here. Move Tavon to the slot and that makes for quite a group of CB's. Just make sure to add quality depth in round 4 or 5 and I'm satisfied by our DB group

[Jacquouille]

35 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I probably shouldn't do this but I pay very little attention to a corners tackling ability. Which is weird because I graded Derek Barnett as a 2nd rounder originally because of his bad tackling... I should begin paying more attention to that

Well, I know many will say they're not supposed to do that, but in Wilson's case it's very problematic. Because if you throw a short quick pass to a Corey Coleman (first example that came to my head) against him, the Wr will easily pick up at least 5 yards, and very possibly more. 

[RavensDieHard21]

3 hours ago, mc_red23 said:

Conley was the best CB available to me in the 2nd round on Fanspeak's mock draft. How plausible is it that he is our pick in the 2nd?

I think he goes top of the second for any teams that passed on corners early. He is somewhere between the 6th-10th best corner though. If White, Lewis, Tank all go in addition to jones, Wilson, Humprey, Lattimore, and maybe even King then I think he is there. 

[ravensnation5220]

10 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

So, I started watching Kevin King... Waw.

Wow? Or did he look bad. I'm assuming good cause I liked what I saw from the film he has great length

[Edgar]

Limited tape on Channing Stribling (Michigan) but I prefer him to his teammate ...name escapes me right now but he gets more run than Stribling.

I'm not crazy about what I've seen against the run but he plays the ball in the  air very well, constantly gets his hands on passes.Sticky in coverage, very tall and long.

Very good in press man. I like him a lot as a cover guy.

[Jacquouille]

5 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Wow? Or did he look bad. I'm assuming good cause I liked what I saw from the film he has great length

No he looks really good. Most have a 3rd round grade on him, but I would take him in the second without any second thought. He does make some mistakes but they're most usually mental. He's physically way more fluid than I thought he would be.

[RavensDieHard21]

47 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

No he looks really good. Most have a 3rd round grade on him, but I would take him in the second without any second thought. He does make some mistakes but they're most usually mental. He's physically way more fluid than I thought he would be.

King is a great corner. Super underrated and I think he gets buried in this class. If we don't take a corner by 48, I think he is very easily there. He's athletic, presses well, has above average ball skills and seems to move his hips well for his size. His length could do wonders when we face Dez Bryant, AJ Green, D. Thomas or any big receiver for that matter.

[jdynamite]

On 1/17/2017 at 2:34 PM, RavensDieHard21 said:

Perhaps corner doesn't work out early, I think there will still be a lot of value picks we could get at corner in the third or a trade up back into the second. I think Kevin King from Washington is one as well as Conley wil likely be in the second as well. 

 

I was thinking this way last year, and even though we hit on T.Young, during the draft I was annoyed that so many guys got past us even in the third round. 

Like when I saw M.Alexander & K.Fuller falling deep in the second round I was hoping they could fall to us at the top of third or maybe trade up a few spots for either. 

 

Edited January 19 by jdynamite

[jdynamite]

On 1/17/2017 at 10:07 PM, ravefan52 said:

So many CB's to study, so many to like. At least one is very likely to be BPA early. Right now my top guys are 

1 Sidney Jones

2 Lattimore

3 Wilson

4 Tankersly

5 White

I also seem to like Jackson, J Lewis and Elder more than most. People have pretty mixed opinions on Adoree as a CB, but his return skills alone are going to make him a steal. He will change so many games because of it.

I'm huge on Corn Elder, not sure where he's currently projected but I think he will be a steal for some team. 

Just the development Elder made in the last two seasons since he switched to CB from RB has been huge.  He's been strong in press coverage too and he's a solid tackler. 

Reminded me of how Sam Shields switched from WR to CB at Miami then got with GB and flourished. 

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, jdynamite said:

I'm huge on Corn Elder, not sure where he's currently projected but I think he will be a steal for some team. 

Just the development Elder made in the last two seasons since he switched to CB from RB has been huge.  He's been strong in press coverage too and he's a solid tackler. 

Reminded me of how Sam Shields switched from WR to CB at Miami then got with GB and flourished. 

I like elder myself. He's a hell of an athlete, he looks so reckless on film though is my only concern, I could see his fundamentals breaking down a good bit

[January J]

48 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I like elder myself. He's a hell of an athlete, he looks so reckless on film though is my only concern, I could see his fundamentals breaking down a good bit

That's a huge red flag to me. IMO the main thing we need out of a corner is discipline. A sure tackler but somebody whos not scared to actually go after the ball.

Edited January 19 by January J

[hn68wb4]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I like elder myself. He's a hell of an athlete, he looks so reckless on film though is my only concern, I could see his fundamentals breaking down a good bit

Yeah he's reckless, but that diving pass breakup against Florida State is legendary

[ravensnation5220]

I took another look at jalen Tabor and yet again im unimpressed, maybe more so now. One thing that really jumped out to me was how bad those Florida corners are coached. They take terrible angles and whiff in nearly every game. In the 2015 LSU game i counted 4 missed tackles by tabor and one he just looked like he avoided him, granted it was leonard fournette but i still want my corner to stick his nose in there and take a lick. There's countless times on tape where Tabor loses the man he's covering because hes always looking to jump a route. Which brings me to my final analysis, look at the qbs he's played. There's a handful of his picks that are more the qbs fault then him making a play. He jump the route 3 or 4 times in a row and you just see it coming yet the qb doesn't. The best qb Florida played all year is arguably Josh Dobbs and he torched them. That goes for the entire secondary. Wilson is better than Tabor by a mile but I have to question competition and the discipline, not many great receivers or qbs they went up against

[rmw10]

I'm sold on Marshon Lattimore right now, and I'll be inserting him as my new #1 CB.  It was hard to even find a con outside of his lack of experience, and watching him, you wouldn't even know that.  He's great in all aspects of coverage.  He has strong athleticism, good size, smooth hips.  He can turn and locate the ball and he always seems to be making a play on it.  He seems mentally strong on the field as you don't really see him get caught up in the wrong spot.  This is a rarity, but I actually struggled with marking anything negative against him.  To my view, he can do it all.

[JoeyFlex5]

5 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

Yeah he's reckless, but that diving pass breakup against Florida State is legendary

That's the main thing hat caught my eye lol. He is freakishly explosive. Honestly he's like a poor mans adoree Jackson who I like a lot. But the athleticism is lower and the risk of breakdown is higher so even though they're similar that makes them hugely different.

 

1 hour ago, January J said:

That's a huge red flag to me. IMO the main thing we need out of a corner is discipline. A sure tackler but somebody whos not scared to actually go after the ball.

Really I just want a guy who doesn't suck and stays healthy lol

[JoeyFlex5]

6 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I took another look at jalen Tabor and yet again im unimpressed, maybe more so now. One thing that really jumped out to me was how bad those Florida corners are coached. They take terrible angles and whiff in nearly every game. In the 2015 LSU game i counted 4 missed tackles by tabor and one he just looked like he avoided him, granted it was leonard fournette but i still want my corner to stick his nose in there and take a lick. There's countless times on tape where Tabor loses the man he's covering because hes always looking to jump a route. Which brings me to my final analysis, look at the qbs he's played. There's a handful of his picks that are more the qbs fault then him making a play. He jump the route 3 or 4 times in a row and you just see it coming yet the qb doesn't. The best qb Florida played all year is arguably Josh Dobbs and he torched them. That goes for the entire secondary. Wilson is better than Tabor by a mile but I have to question competition and the discipline, not many great receivers or qbs they went up against

Plus look at the holds that go uncalled. 

He is a massive bust in the making and I struggle to believe that NFL scouts are rating him as highly as the media is

[JoeyFlex5]

5 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I'm sold on Marshon Lattimore right now, and I'll be inserting him as my new #1 CB.  It was hard to even find a con outside of his lack of experience, and watching him, you wouldn't even know that.  He's great in all aspects of coverage.  He has strong athleticism, good size, smooth hips.  He can turn and locate the ball and he always seems to be making a play on it.  He seems mentally strong on the field as you don't really see him get caught up in the wrong spot.  This is a rarity, but I actually struggled with marking anything negative against him.  To my view, he can do it all.

My only complaint is he hasn't gotten many zone reps and he few times I saw it was pretty bad, like he didn't appear to have a clue what to do. 

Man coberage though good god he's amazing

[hn68wb4]

4 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Plus look at the holds that go uncalled. 

He is a massive bust in the making and I struggle to believe that NFL scouts are rating him as highly as the media is

But to be fair, if we can use the Packers v. Cowboys game as an indicator, defensive holding is no longer a penalty apparently

[ravensnation5220]

11 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Plus look at the holds that go uncalled. 

He is a massive bust in the making and I struggle to believe that NFL scouts are rating him as highly as the media is

Ya. Watching the tape was frustrating to say the least. I looked at white too and i think he has even more uncalled holding plays, he does do a good job of making it go unseen but some refs will catch on. Have you taken your second look at Humphrey yet? 

Edited January 19 by ravensnation5220