Should we? Could we? get Norv Turner?

[kiwi_raven]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000732550/article/norv-turner-resigns-as-vikings-offensive-coordinator

 

He made the viking offense Hum for the first 5 games, and i like the way his play calling is, i definitely think its an upgrade over Marty

[reed20]

I wouldn't mind it. Let's give Marty a solid go at it, though. Marty is aggressive and is a good fit as it is for the guys we have on offense. The only person i'd do an immediate swap for at OC is if Mike Shanahan stopped by to say hello.

[redrum52]

I think Norv is great as an OC.  I don't fault him for their problems, but at the same time, I haven't watched enough of their games to really judge play calling this season.

 

 

Also don't think hes pursuing a HC gig.  wouldn't mind looking at college guys either if the team goes a new direction.

Edited November 3, 2016 by redrum52

[ellicottraven]

Should we? Not our decision. If Steve insists then Harbaugh will have to ring him in regardless of whether he agrees or not. Could we? It depends on Norv really. Does he know or respect Harbs enough to want to come here. Does he know or respect Ozzie enough to come here? 

The most important question however is what will he do to our offense other than put pressure on Marty to perform or get fired.

[jazz1988]

Doesn't make sense to make Norv the offensive coordinator. it wouldn't happen this year but it also doesn't make sense next year because his offensive scheme is totally different from The Ravens run right now. The Ravens run a west coast offense which is something Norv Turner doesn't run and I don't think this offense needs that total change right now or even later. 

[usmccharles]

It wont happen this year thats for sure.  I think we should keep it in house, give Marty a shot for the rest of the year. 

[omar586]

what system did Kubiak run when he was here?

[Inqui]

1 minute ago, omar586 said:

what system did Kubiak run when he was here?

He ran his own type of WCO system. We tried to recreate it with Trestman but, uh, I think we all know how that turned out. Iirc Kyle Shanahan's another one who runs it, though I really don't see him leaving Atlanta for a lateral move - especially with how well they're doing. I feel like there's someone else who's been floating around the league who runs the same system, but their name is eluding me atm. 

I'd be in favour of bringing in Norv if he wants to come in - he was my preference to replace Jim Caldwell when I didn't think Kubiak was in the picture. I know everyone hates the Air Coryell but I don't think the system itself is all that bad - the problem was more Cam dialling up plays as though Torrey were Michael Irvin - and it shouldn't be all that difficult for Joe to get back into things with his familiarity with the system. I was kinda jealous to watch the Vikings attack all three levels this year.

[Militant X 1]

10 hours ago, Inqui said:

He ran his own type of WCO system. We tried to recreate it with Trestman but, uh, I think we all know how that turned out. Iirc Kyle Shanahan's another one who runs it, though I really don't see him leaving Atlanta for a lateral move - especially with how well they're doing. I feel like there's someone else who's been floating around the league who runs the same system, but their name is eluding me atm. 

I'd be in favour of bringing in Norv if he wants to come in - he was my preference to replace Jim Caldwell when I didn't think Kubiak was in the picture. I know everyone hates the Air Coryell but I don't think the system itself is all that bad - the problem was more Cam dialling up plays as though Torrey were Michael Irvin - and it shouldn't be all that difficult for Joe to get back into things with his familiarity with the system. I was kinda jealous to watch the Vikings attack all three levels this year.

Not me!  I absolutely love the Air Coryell system!  It works very well with the proper personnel and utilization of them imo.

As far as Norv?  Something major went down behind the scenes to make him abruptly quit his position like that.  It hasn't come out yet but it will.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Militant X 1
Spelling

[RaineV1]

3 hours ago, kiwi_raven said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000732550/article/norv-turner-resigns-as-vikings-offensive-coordinator

 

He made the viking offense Hum for the first 5 games, and i like the way his play calling is, i definitely think its an upgrade over Marty

The Vikings' offense wasn't that efficient. The second teams starting game planing his strategy, it went to hell. If Marty isn't the guy, then I'd like the team to start fresh rather than taking another old castoff.

[RavensFan34950]

3 hours ago, kiwi_raven said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000732550/article/norv-turner-resigns-as-vikings-offensive-coordinator

 

He made the viking offense Hum for the first 5 games, and i like the way his play calling is, i definitely think its an upgrade over Marty

Mike Wallace would not approve this hire.

[Maryland]

4 hours ago, Inqui said:

He ran his own type of WCO system. We tried to recreate it with Trestman but, uh, I think we all know how that turned out. Iirc Kyle Shanahan's another one who runs it, though I really don't see him leaving Atlanta for a lateral move - especially with how well they're doing. I feel like there's someone else who's been floating around the league who runs the same system, but their name is eluding me atm. 

Kubiak and Kyle Shanahan are both students of Mike Shanahan. Since Kyle Shanahan will almost certainly be offered a HC position with someone next season, you can rule him out completely unless Steve does something very unexpected regarding Harbaugh lol. I actually saw it suggested that our FO should look into hiring Mike Shanahan himself, which I don't automatically hate, since his struggles at the Redskins really wasn't his fault--the GM and especially the owner made it a very toxic environment for him, always undermining his authority at HC and tampering with the roster. I'd sooner give him a shot than hire Norv, in all honesty, since I like Shanahan's offense a lot more than the Air Coryell, which brings back frustrating memories of Cam Cameron. 

----

The thing with Norv and the Vikings is this: to begin the season, Pat Shurmer was calling the plays because of his familiarity working with with Sam Bradford. Then, after Bradford got acclimated to the offense, they gave Norv playcalling duties again, but after an anemic few weeks thereafter, they wanted to go back to Shurmer and relinquished playcalling duties from Norv. Although Norv's departure ended with a heated argument with Mike Zimmer, I'm sure their parting was mutual, since it was kind of forced by the FO/HC once they stripped Norv of his playcalling duties--at that point, what function does he even serve? 

As I see it, Norv was setup to fail in Minnesota. Teddy Bridgewater is/was an awful QB for them to draft to fit Norv's Air Coryell offense (I know hindsight is 20/20, but even at the time I thought Carr would have been perfect for him and found Bridgewater a puzzling choice with Carr on the board). This year, their OL became easily one of the worst in the league after injuries took its toll (but it was pretty bad to begin with anyway), which meant that they didn't have time to run deep passes--a huge part of running the Air Coryell; their WR corps didn't really have a good deep threat; AD went down to start the season, which exacerbated the problems with their OL being unable to run-block, which then meant that they couldn't run play-action and take deep shots downfield. (is all of this sounding eerily familiar? lol)

However, even with all of those excuses, it seemed as if Norv wasn't doing anything creative with his offense, and he wasn't doing anything different to compensate for the personnel he had to work with. Like, if your pass protection isn't allowing your QB time to take a 5-step drop, and your OL isn't opening up holes up the middle, then maybe do something different on offense. I have to question if Norv is getting stale and uncreative in his old age. It's hard to tell how much of the Vikings' struggles were related to a weak roster and how much was related to poor playcalling--probably a little of both, same as Trestman.

I will say, Norv does seem like the typical Ravens hire lately, being a failed HC/OC retread with no aspirations of usurping Harbaugh's role as HC, so he's got that going for him. Plus, if they want to hire someone similar to Cam to run an offense that takes advantage of Joe's big arm, he's the guy. I would much rather look for young blood at the OC position, however, but that's something to look at during the off-season. 

[Cillmatic]

8 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

Doesn't make sense to make Norv the offensive coordinator. it wouldn't happen this year but it also doesn't make sense next year because his offensive scheme is totally different from The Ravens run right now. The Ravens run a west coast offense which is something Norv Turner doesn't run and I don't think this offense needs that total change right now or even later. 

The teams scheme NEEDS to change, the west coast offense isn't for us.

[Tank 92]

Kinda early to be thinking of replacing Marty. Don't ya think?

[kiwi_raven]

1 hour ago, Tank 92 said:

Kinda early to be thinking of replacing Marty. Don't ya think?

No not really, if a better canadate comes along don't you try and hire him? If AJ Green left the Bengals and said he would come to the ravens if you dump perriman; wouldn't you jump at the chance even though perriman has only had a few games under his belt?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Definitely not now. It takes a while for the offense to get going after any coordinator change... doing 2 in quick succession would set our already behind offense back even further.

Marty just got the bye week to be able to implement a little of what he wants to do; switching things up again after 3 weeks of learning new stuff would probably cripple us.

Personally, I like Norv as an OC, especially when he's new to a team. But, a complaint ive seen from many Vikings fans is that his play calling got extremely predictable. They had the same run, run, long pass, punt complaint that was all too familiar during the Cam Cameron era. I do think that his scheme is a better fit for Flacco's and our receivers skill sets, but I dont see him as a long term answer.

If we're going to make any drastic changes, I want to bring in someone new. A young, fresh face to the league. With a young QB and young offense i do think its best to bring in an established, veteran coordinator who knows the league and can develop an offense. But, with a veteran QB and offense, I'd like to see a young, not even necessarily "innovative" but someone with fresh ideas or a slight spin on an existing scheme.

The Vikings offense was not good this year. They did enough to survive the first 5 games. Bradford was a good fit because he was very careful with the ball, but they werent attacking people really. Maybe that was just Norv knowing what he had personnel-wise and in the defense and not wanting to give games away, and with Flacco would open up the vertical passing game more - but thats exactly what i want to see.

We need more explosive plays in the passing game. We need more easy completions that get us into a rhythm. Someone that can develop route combinations and timing concepts that design guys open.

Kyle Shanahan is popular for that reason. He's not doing anything revolutionary - the majority of his offense is WC principals taken from his father and Kubiak... but he's got a fresh spin on it, and hes not so set in his ways and "his" offense that he wont adapt and try to fit square pegs in round holes. And thats why i want someone new to the position even if their offensive philosophy is based on one thats been around forever.

 

Right now, Marty's the guy for the job. We need to give him the rest of the season, and if there's decent improvement even next year so we can see what he does with a full offseason. And, if we make a change this or next off season, I want to see us go in a new direction. Hire someone from the college level, or an up-and-comer from another NFL team that's had a successful offense.

[VermontRaven]

25 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Definitely not now. It takes a while for the offense to get going after any coordinator change... doing 2 in quick succession would set our already behind offense back even further.

This sums it up perfectly.  It makes ZERO sense to bring him in now.  This offense will sink or sail with Marty for the rest of the season.  I am still optimistic that it takes off.  I think we will see major signs of improvement this Sunday for 2 reasons:

1) A lot of key players are getting healthy--particularly Yanda and Stanley (and possibly SSS, but he is still not practicing)

2) Marty has had 2 weeks of games + the bye week to figure things out and add his spin to the offense.

 

If the offense continues to struggle for the rest of the year under Marty, then we can have the discussion about who makes sense to bring in.  I can't ever remember a time where a team brought in an outside Offensive Coordinator (or Defensive Coordinator) in the middle of the season.

[rmcjacket23]

No point in discussing this until at least after the season

[jazz1988]

3 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

The teams scheme NEEDS to change, the west coast offense isn't for us.

That's incorrect because Joe Flacco and the offense had it's best season in a west coast offense in 2014.

[Rav'n Maniac]

I feel what some are forgetting here is that Norm resigned from his position and that the Vikings retain the rights to his contract through the end of this season. Sure, they could release him from his contractual obligations but, at this point, it's not even worth considering for this year.

[January J]

This is not something that is done mid season, atleast not typically. When a mid season firing occurs almost always an in-house replacement is promoted BC he is familiar with what the team is trying to do and knows the ins and outs. An outsider with completely different ideas and schemes would only further confuse things and set us back. I'm not a huge norv turner fan anyway, but yeah nothing like this needs to be discussed until the off season.

[Filmstudy]

I'm not sure if the Ravens have told Mornhinweg he's an interim OC.  If so, then Norv could be hired immediately and Marty would go back to being QB coach.

[AsianRice]

Logically, it's not gonna happened in the mid season....Our FO and Harbs will have to give Marty a chance to prove that he's the right guy for the system...

[JoeyFlex5]

I recall skins fans having the same complaints about Turner that many of us have with pees. He scraps his game plan late in the game when they have a lead. 

Now I know nothing about norv turner, or his situation with the skins in Daniel Snyder's "finest" hour, but just going off of what I've heard from a lot of skins fans.

[usmccharles]

@JoeyFlex5 Since you know a good amount about college football, any guys you would like to see be brought in for an OC position?

[Rav'n Maniac]

3 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

@JoeyFlex5 Since you know a good amount about college football, any guys you would like to see be brought in for an OC position?

I was about to ask the same thing. If we are to bring someone in, can it at least be someone who's not eligible social security yet?

[redrum52]

9 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No point in discussing this until at least after the season

I assumed this was for next season anyway.  

[balfan23]

6 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

I was about to ask the same thing. If we are to bring someone in, can it at least be someone who's not eligible social security yet?

Agreed. I just can't imagine he's got the fire in the belly at this point. 

[RaineV1]

12 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

The teams scheme NEEDS to change, the west coast offense isn't for us.

The west coast offense worked very well when Kubiak was here.

[Cillmatic]

9 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

The west coast offense worked very well when Kubiak was here.

That was when we had a great running game.