2017 WR prospect thread

[trevorsteadman]

57 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

ill admit im not really a fan of cooper kupp - would prefer juju or zay jones to kupp

I could see Zay Jones over Kupp but I think Kupp fits that possession mold better. But I really do not like Juju, I really think there is bust written all over that guy. I think his teammate, Rodgers, is actually the better receiver.

[trevorsteadman]

I just like Kupp because he has fantastic hands, hand-eye coordination, and body control. Reminds me a lot of Doug Baldwin when catching the ball. I think he will be steal. I think the small school will cause him to have some hiccups early on. But I think he has those clutch player traits this team would really want to have on this team.

[ravens rule]

If we were to go wideout rd one then I want Davis but Idk how you pass on John Ross if he's there. 

[Davesta]

28 minutes ago, ravens rule said:

If we were to go wideout rd one then I want Davis but Idk how you pass on John Ross if he's there. 

Because we look at our roster and see perriman and Wallace 

[purpletide]

27 minutes ago, ravens rule said:

If we were to go wideout rd one then I want Davis but Idk how you pass on John Ross if he's there. 

Cause he doesn't have the skillset that fits us like Davis' does. We don't need another speed guy alongside Wallace and Perriman he'd basically just have to fight for playing time cause he wouldn't bring anything new to the table. It's not that I don't like him but there's no reason as to why we should grab him, there's so many better directions to go in the draft.

[Rebel Raven]

Yes,  Davis and Barnett are my ideal picks in the first.  Barnett would practically complete the defense, besides ILB, making our defense extremely solid on paper. While adding Davis is exactly what the doctor ordered for our offense. Good routes, combined with excellent hands, and would complete giving Flacco viable weapons to build with in the future. Corey Davis, Perriman, Maxx Williams and Dixon are extremely talented and would be a solid foundation as long as we build a solid o-line. Besides those two picks I'm not much in love with anyone else at 16

[flynismo]

I'd take Ross in a heartbeat. Would we not add Marvin Harrison just because Harrison's skill set doesn't complement Perriman and Wallace? LOL!

And obviously I'm not calling Ross the next Marvin Harrison. This offense needs playmakers, and Ross is probably the biggest one at WR.

[jboy19]

I think John Ross has a good enough skillset aside from his speed (hands/routes) to justify him as a top 20 pick....

But I'm going to die worrying about all those injuries. 

[trevorsteadman]

32 minutes ago, flynismo said:

I'd take Ross in a heartbeat. Would we not add Marvin Harrison just because Harrison's skill set doesn't complement Perriman and Wallace? LOL!

And obviously I'm not calling Ross the next Marvin Harrison. This offense needs playmakers, and Ross is probably the biggest one at WR.

I disagree I think Ross was a 2nd round talent until he posted a 4.22. I think I would rather have Zay Jones and Cooper Kupp than John Ross. 

The offense's problem last year wasn't moving the ball. There were a lot of good drives. The problem was getting touchdowns on those drives. Seemed like the offense stalled inside the red zone and settled for field goals, or failed 4th down attempts. 

The offense needs some height and some bully especially after the departure of Steve Smith.

[ravensnation5220]

28 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

I disagree I think Ross was a 2nd round talent until he posted a 4.22. I think I would rather have Zay Jones and Cooper Kupp than John Ross. 

The offense's problem last year wasn't moving the ball. There were a lot of good drives. The problem was getting touchdowns on those drives. Seemed like the offense stalled inside the red zone and settled for field goals, or failed 4th down attempts. 

The offense needs some height and some bully especially after the departure of Steve Smith.

To his credit, Ross had 17 touchdowns last year. He's a better route runner than people give him credit for. 

[trevorsteadman]

35 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

To his credit, Ross had 17 touchdowns last year. He's a better route runner than people give him credit for. 

Yeah but I am afraid how well he matches up in the redzone at the next level. A lot of his touchdowns were big plays compared to 9 yard touchdown grabs. He is a playmaker, but I think he is not what the Ravens need.

[purpletide]

5 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

Yeah but I am afraid how well he matches up in the redzone at the next level. A lot of his touchdowns were big plays compared to 9 yard touchdown grabs. He is a playmaker, but I think he is not what the Ravens need.

Plus that's how his offense works. His QB has 43 TDs in just that season.

[rossihunter2]

44 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

To his credit, Ross had 17 touchdowns last year. He's a better route runner than people give him credit for. 

im just not sure that his style of play is what the ravens are missing - it doesnt matter how good a route runner he is or how many bombs he caught in college it's still more of the same in all honesty - ozzie specifically mentioned getting a complementary receiver which suggests to me bringing in a player with a different skillset to what's already on the roster who can mesh with the receivers already on the roster - to my eyes (albeit not professional eyes) that means a big bodied/lengthy guy who can make catches on the outside in the intermediate passing game - that strikes me as more the other two than ross

[trevorsteadman]

28 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

im just not sure that his style of play is what the ravens are missing - it doesnt matter how good a route runner he is or how many bombs he caught in college it's still more of the same in all honesty - ozzie specifically mentioned getting a complementary receiver which suggests to me bringing in a player with a different skillset to what's already on the roster who can mesh with the receivers already on the roster - to my eyes (albeit not professional eyes) that means a big bodied/lengthy guy who can make catches on the outside in the intermediate passing game - that strikes me as more the other two than ross

You said it better than I ever could Rossi I would agree 100%. Ravens need a chain-mover. 

[arnie_uk]

47 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

Yeah but I am afraid how well he matches up in the redzone at the next level. A lot of his touchdowns were big plays compared to 9 yard touchdown grabs. He is a playmaker, but I think he is not what the Ravens need.

12 of his 16 tds were in the red zone. Have you even watched him? He's got elite quickness and can get open in flash which is excatly what is needed in the redzone.

Without the injuries he's a bona-fide top 15 pick.

[ravensnation5220]

39 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

im just not sure that his style of play is what the ravens are missing - it doesnt matter how good a route runner he is or how many bombs he caught in college it's still more of the same in all honesty - ozzie specifically mentioned getting a complementary receiver which suggests to me bringing in a player with a different skillset to what's already on the roster who can mesh with the receivers already on the roster - to my eyes (albeit not professional eyes) that means a big bodied/lengthy guy who can make catches on the outside in the intermediate passing game - that strikes me as more the other two than ross

Ya I think that's what we all have in mind when thinking of a complementary receiver and I'd prefer that to Ross. However, that doesn't mean Ross can't complement our receiving core. Perriman is more of a deep threat who can run the 9 and post routes while Wallace was more of a slant/crossing route kinda guy. Ross I see as a slot receiver who can play outside, he's a lot like TY Hilton for the Colts and his style could in a sense complement Perriman and Wallace. Just because you have elite speed doesn't mean the only thing you can do is go deep, it's just an added dimension. Considering how much we like running crossing routes Ross would fit in very well with that style of play. 

Just so we're clear. I'm not advocatingwe take Ross at 16 as I have several players I'd take before him but rather demonstrate why he could be a good fit in Baltimore 

[ravensnation5220]

4 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

12 of his 16 tds were in the red zone. Have you even watched him? He's got elite quickness and can get open in flash which is excatly what is needed in the redzone.

Without the injuries he's a bona-fide top 15 pick.

This. And what I said above

[arnie_uk]

3 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Ya I think that's what we all have in mind when thinking of a complementary receiver and I'd prefer that to Ross. However, that doesn't mean Ross can't complement our receiving core. Perriman is more of a deep threat who can run the 9 and post routes while Wallace was more of a slant/crossing route kinda guy. Ross I see as a slot receiver who can play outside, he's a lot like TY Hilton for the Colts and his style could in a sense complement Perriman and Wallace. Just because you have elite speed doesn't mean the only thing you can do is go deep, it's just an added dimension. Considering how much we like running crossing routes Ross would fit in very well with that style of play. 

Just so we're clear. I'm not advocatingwe take Ross at 16 as I have several players I'd take before him but rather demonstrate why he could be a good fit in Baltimore 

 

2 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

This. And what I said above

Agree. I don't think I want ross at 16. But there is only a few players that may be there I'd take ahead of him.

If you could drop back 5 6 picks and pick up an additional 3rd, draft ross.

Use your additional 3rd and 3rd comp to get an additional second. 

Draft someone like Tim Williams and Feeny in the second and we are landed.

[rossihunter2]

1 minute ago, arnie_uk said:

 

Agree. I don't think I want ross at 16. But there is only a few players that may be there I'd take ahead of him.

If you could drop back 5 6 picks and pick up an additional 3rd, draft ross.

Use your additional 3rd and 3rd comp to get an additional second. 

Draft someone like Tim Williams and Feeny in the second and we are landed.

the thing is i think another team who ross fits better will gamble with him earlier than we would so he wont necessarily be there in a trade back option - i could definitely see the titans taking him at 18 for example

and i dont really see tim williams or dan feeney being around in the 2nd

[ravensnation5220]

6 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

 

Agree. I don't think I want ross at 16. But there is only a few players that may be there I'd take ahead of him.

If you could drop back 5 6 picks and pick up an additional 3rd, draft ross.

Use your additional 3rd and 3rd comp to get an additional second. 

Draft someone like Tim Williams and Feeny in the second and we are landed.

Trading back 5 or 6 spots won't get us a 3rd rounder unless that team really wants a certain player. 

3 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

the thing is i think another team who ross fits better will gamble with him earlier than we would so he wont necessarily be there in a trade back option - i could definitely see the titans taking him at 18 for example

and i dont really see tim williams or dan feeney being around in the 2nd

I agree don't see him falling outside the top 20. I could see feeney in the second round but maybe not at our pick. Williams will be a first rounder based on his ability to rush the passer. 

[arnie_uk]

19 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Trading back 5 or 6 spots won't get us a 3rd rounder unless that team really wants a certain player. 

I agree don't see him falling outside the top 20. I could see feeney in the second round but maybe not at our pick. Williams will be a first rounder based on his ability to rush the passer. 

Williams also has a patchy legal history and could fall because of it.

[ravensnation5220]

40 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

Williams also has a patchy legal history and could fall because of it.

I don't think he will call that far because of it (barring another failed drug test). He's been interviewing very well and it doesn't seem to be as big of a deal as Noah Spence was last year. After all it's only weed, he does have a permit for that gun I think he just misunderstood the laws for having a concealed weapon permit. If he does fall than some team will get very lucky

[raven94]

6 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I don't think he will call that far because of it (barring another failed drug test). He's been interviewing very well and it doesn't seem to be as big of a deal as Noah Spence was last year. After all it's only weed, he does have a permit for that gun I think he just misunderstood the laws for having a concealed weapon permit. If he does fall than some team will get very lucky

Well his stock has been falling. People have been looking at his negatives a lot lately. His light weightedness, his supposed liability against the run, and his poor combine numbers, and a couple of other points as well. I believe he'll be at our second round pick and I'd pick him and consider it a steal because I believe he's got 1st round. He's just got a public rap at the moment it seems

[ravensnation5220]

2 minutes ago, raven94 said:

Well his stock has been falling. People have been looking at his negatives a lot lately. His light weightedness, his supposed liability against the run, and his poor combine numbers, and a couple of other points as well. I believe he'll be at our second round pick and I'd pick him and consider it a steal because I believe he's got 1st round. He's just got a public rap at the moment it seems

Have you listened to his combine interview? I posted it on the media mock thread. You should listen to it. 

[raven94]

57 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Have you listened to his combine interview? I posted it on the media mock thread. You should listen to it. 

Oh I've listened to it. I know he's not a bad guy. I think lots of people know he's a good guy. I think a lot of people are overreacting to his poor combine performance and also to his admittance to failing drug tests (although I thought his honesty there was the real indicator of character). Lots of the mocks I've seen have him at least slipping to the second if not later. Grant it since when do draft analysts have a single clue about what's going on? My statements are just made off of the mocks. That's all. Like I've said I believe he's 1st round talent, great character, great college program, great teammate. 

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, raven94 said:

Well his stock has been falling. People have been looking at his negatives a lot lately. His light weightedness, his supposed liability against the run, and his poor combine numbers, and a couple of other points as well. I believe he'll be at our second round pick and I'd pick him and consider it a steal because I believe he's got 1st round. He's just got a public rap at the moment it seems

he's got a bad rap in the media but he's supposedly been interviewing well, owning his mistakes (and confirming that they are very much in the past), been getting good references from nick saban - all the things you want from someone with the potential legal problems

as for the actual tape stuff - i dont think teams see it that way at all - ive only seen these narratives (apart from the run-game one) pedalled anywhere other than on these boards - i dont think he's too light to play the position, his combine numbers were disappointing because we expected better but they werent actually bad, he himself points out that he's not actually a bad run defender as the LSU tape shows but he wasnt asked to do it as much

i think the problem here is just that the media are overreacting because of the drugs tests without any actual knowledge of how many/when/likelihood of recurrence because his film is electric

[raven94]

2 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

he's got a bad rap in the media but he's supposedly been interviewing well, owning his mistakes (and confirming that they are very much in the past), been getting good references from nick saban - all the things you want from someone with the potential legal problems

as for the actual tape stuff - i dont think teams see it that way at all - ive only seen these narratives (apart from the run-game one) pedalled anywhere other than on these boards - i dont think he's too light to play the position, his combine numbers were disappointing because we expected better but they werent actually bad, he himself points out that he's not actually a bad run defender as the LSU tape shows but he wasnt asked to do it as much

i think the problem here is just that the media are overreacting because of the drugs tests without any actual knowledge of how many/when/likelihood of recurrence because his film is electric

I'm completely in agreement with you here on the analysis of Tim Williams. I've actually said alot of what you said on these boards in the past. I've just been saying that based on some of the media reports and mocks etc. That I've seen I can see him going in the second round. I've always been a fan and supporter of his on these boards, I want him in purple and black. I'm just stating that some info leads me to believe he can go in the second

[rossihunter2]

11 minutes ago, raven94 said:

I'm completely in agreement with you here on the analysis of Tim Williams. I've actually said alot of what you said on these boards in the past. I've just been saying that based on some of the media reports and mocks etc. That I've seen I can see him going in the second round. I've always been a fan and supporter of his on these boards, I want him in purple and black. I'm just stating that some info leads me to believe he can go in the second

if he does, its a miraculous steal for us/the issues are much worse than expected but i cant see him making it out of round 1 - his film is too good for a team at the end of the 1st to pass up on even if his issues are a problem

[flynismo]

6 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

I disagree I think Ross was a 2nd round talent until he posted a 4.22. I think I would rather have Zay Jones and Cooper Kupp than John Ross. 

The offense's problem last year wasn't moving the ball. There were a lot of good drives. The problem was getting touchdowns on those drives. Seemed like the offense stalled inside the red zone and settled for field goals, or failed 4th down attempts. 

The offense needs some height and some bully especially after the departure of Steve Smith.

You are right, this offense needs a playmaker, not a move the chains guy. Like I said, Ross is probably the best playmaker in the draft at WR, and that 4.22 burst is a huge reason why he is such a beast in the red zone as well. I don't care how it gets done, jump balls, YAC, whatever, just get it done. Ross gets it done,

[jazz1988]

19 hours ago, Davesta said:

Because we look at our roster and see perriman and Wallace 

 

19 hours ago, purpletide said:

Cause he doesn't have the skillset that fits us like Davis' does. We don't need another speed guy alongside Wallace and Perriman he'd basically just have to fight for playing time cause he wouldn't bring anything new to the table. It's not that I don't like him but there's no reason as to why we should grab him, there's so many better directions to go in the draft.

I think John Ross is more than a vertical threat. He's a guy that  seems to have reliable hands, good route runner, can play outside and inside, and etc to go along with his speed.  I don't view him as a one trick pony so I don't see him as  a limited route runner or a receiver that only best suited for go routes.He's not a guy  that you want to count on winning contested catches 90 percent of the time but I think The Ravens have too much talent at the tight end position to not consider them as the big possession receiver they need for Joe Flacco to make those contested or key catches on third down.  Perriman may be fast  but he's a  6'2 receiver that was drafted in the first round and I doubt The Ravens drafted a first round receiver with the expectation of him being just a deep threat. 

 

One thing I also like about John Ross is that he isn't just fast but he's quick as well which may  be something we can't say  about Perriman and Wallace which isn't  a big knock  not on them because most taller guys aren't really all that quick.