Ravens Woes...4 Years of Poor Drafting-No Depth? - Brent Harris

[Edgar]

Anyone else interested in checking out Davis Webb tonight?

[kjbmore]

21 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

possibly the most speculative statement ever made but ok. i JUST said it takes 2 to trade and the first thought is "but we could have traded" lol

totally speculative - somebody said dodd and ogbah went ahead of where we picked - I just threw up a possible scenario to move ahead up in the draft

given the teams ahead of us - they seemed like the best possible candidates to move up - we essentially needed to get ahead of the browns at the top of the 2nd

we were moving back for fourths and fifths i think

given where we were picking and our historical draft position - if ever there was a time to be aggressive and try and get back into the first and try come away with an ogden / lewis type scenario, this was it - we had stanley at 6

[Ravensfan23]

56 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

which tells you that ravens media overhypes players... so for the report to be that bad, he must have been REALLY bad

They just overreact period. I only pointed out some of the positive reports that didn't add up. They do the same thing on the negative side as well. Take the 2-3 plays they watch a player and report on it. If you've every been to practice, you'd see how it's nearly impossible to watch all 22 games on the field to see who is doing what in live drills. How can you see how well Reynolds got off the line vs press if you're watching the trenches? 

And even if he was really bad, he practiced all of 6 practices. That doesn't mean he wouldn't have be able to perform. We just don't know what he would or wouldn't have done. Harbs did say he needed to improve his lower body strength so we'll see how he returns.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

I'll bite. I'd say it's two bad years of drafting that cost us. 2012 only brought us KO, and he's gone, and while 2013 had a few good players mixed in missing on Elam and Brown made us repeat drafting a safety and ILB in the top three of the next year's draft(people will say Jernigan but I still argue that he was a best player available guy in Ozzie's eyes and he's been very good for us so no complaints). 2015 might be a bad year but it's way too early to tell. Davis looks bad, Williams is hurt but had a good rookie year for a TE, and Perriman has been hit and miss lately. 2016 looks like a good year. 

 

Ozzie's biggest flaw is that's neglected the secondary. Jimmy is a good player, easily a #1 corner. But he's not the super shutdown guy a lot of people argue he is. He's very good, but he's not a Revis type. I think Ozzie had a stellar pick with Tavon and he'll hold down the slot for the forseeable future. But Ozzie's biggest problem is that he hasn't gotten a CB to go help out Jimmy on the outside. He HAS to do that this offseason, or else it may cost him his job. 

 

We don't need world beaters like a certain member perpetuates(and the rest of you take his stupid bait.. Not you Mili. We have no problems). But we could at least go get a #1 edge rusher and a #2 corner. And a FS while we are at it. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Furthermore, look at the past few drafts and tell me that the front 7 hasn't done well/UDFA acquisitions and tell me the front 7 hasn't been well developed. 

Williams, Jernigan, Guy, Judon, Pierce, ZDS(yeah, not much of a pass rusher but he's a good role player), CJ, Orr. We lack the #1 guy at edge rusher but the rest of the front 7 is built. Which is really crucial and a big reason our defense is as good as it is. Ozzie needs to acquire another outside corner and the #1 dude at edge rusher(which we didn't have a chance at last draft tbh) and the defense is set to be honest. 

 

He's started to redevelop the oline. He's retained Yanda, who's an elite guard, and drafted Ronnie Stanley and Alex Lewis, who are probably our bookend tackle starters next year which is damn impressive in one draft. Meaning in all likelihood he drafts a center in the third or fourth next year and draft a starting LG or picks up a stop-gap. And he's also gotten depth the past few drafts, people say we lack good oline depth, but that's not true. Urschel and Jensen are good depth pieces, and Lewis has proven to be a good backup LT(not good enough to be a starter though). It's hard to come by good oline depth.

 

We're lacking a #1 edge rusher right now which is the biggest thing hurting the defense. Guys like Jernigan, Guy, and Pierce can bring the heat on the inside, and Judon is a good edge player, but we lack a Suggs type now. Which would turn this unit into a great one rather than a really good one. 

 

Offensively we need a new center and LG. 

 

It's WAY too early to give up on both Maxx and Perriman. I do think both can still develop into good players(am still mad at Trestman for not drawing up more plays for Maxx. He made it to the field, and not one damn reception when he flashed good receiving ability last year. Stop giving Crockett the chances, he's not very good smh). It's helping that we have three good backs but Flacco has yet to develop chemistry with the younger guys due to injuries by all parties. I think Chris Moore could be a good #3 player, even if he drops a lot of balls as well.

 

This team is in the rebuilding process. It's taken a hit because 2012 and 2013 have proven to be atrocious. But the past few drafts have been good. 

 

Sorry guys. In all likelihood nothing is gonna happen.

 

Which is good. I don't want fans to run my team. 

[JoeyFlex5]

holy triple posts batman. 

hey LiT just wondering what you think about our atrocious 09 and 10 drafts being what set this whole chain of events. kindle and cody being absolute total busts hurt us for a long time. if kindle was the guy we drafted him to be, we probably dont take upshaw, if we took golden tate, or brandon spikes over cody we could have set ourselves up nicely at either of those positions, or if we took emannuel sanders or navorro bowman or shaun lauvao or eric decker or jimmy graham over dickson... i mean we absolutely whiffed in 2010, it was horrible, i know its hindsight but man was that a bad draft, if we landed just ONE of our top 3 picks as a long term starter then i think we have a situation now where we dont lack a consistently productive guy at an important position. i mean what if we took bowman in the 3rd, we could have taken HHCD in 2014, or if we took golden tate in the 2nd, we couldve taken byron jones in 2015, if kindle didnt bust his head then we wouldnt have felt it necessary to take upshaw and to sign dumervil to a pretty big contract in which he would only be productive throughout half of it.

 

all hindsight and what if, but i think michael oher failing to pan out as the franchise tackle like he was supposed to be, and the first 3 picks being total busts the next year, is what REALLY set us back. it set off a chain of events that still hurts us today.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

It's entirely hindsight. 2010 hurts more than 09 because we could have had Dez Bryant but the damn cowboys screwed us over. But again hindsight. In 2009 Webb was a difference maker until injuries ruined his career.  And Kruger was a good pass rusher for us until we got an upgrade in Dumervil and he was given an atrocious contract in free agency by the browns(btw. We still won that deal), and we didn't have many picks because we traded Boldin away. Oher was at least a decent player for us. So not a terrible haul but not memorable. 

 

10 I think we've mostly gotten past. Williams has proven to be the NT of the future, and if you blame Kindle on ozzie you're an idiot(and don't give me this "I think he'd be a bust" bullcrap. We'll never know. Not Ozzie's fault he got hurt), and we got Jones and Pitta out of that. Dickson had one good year, and then sucked. But we got Pitta out of it who was good until he hurt his hip. 

 

Then we had 11. Which was a very good class with Jah Reid and Doss honestly ruining it even if one of them has proven to be a solid nfl olinemen later. 

 

12 sucked. One good player. KO. Pierce had a good rookie year but was a dissapoitnment. 

 

13 also terrible. Elam and Brown: Nothing. Williams, Wagner, and Juice have proven to be good players but nothing too special.

 

14. Great. Only bad pick was Brooks. Which hurts us but this draft gave us two difference makers on defense. 

 

15. Too early to tell. Perriman and Maxx have flashed. Davis looks like a lost cause sadly which is fine since we tend to draft dlinmen every year in some capacity. Allen has a solid role on offense. Walker RIP. Boyle was a good depth pick which we will need soon since Crockett is going the Marlon Brown route of having one good year and then sucking. Could be a good draft, but it was honestly an overrated class. 

 

16. Looks great. The kind of draft that could win us a SB in the near future. Probably found our franchise LT in Stanley which is a huge win. Young looks like a difference maker at slot corner who can make big plays, I really liked Kaufausi's tape and think he could bring some great interior pass rush once he returns healthy, Dixon may one day be a franchise RB(those bashing him at this moment are idiots cause hes' had what.. 6 carries?), Moore might turn into a complimentary weapon, a good #3, and I think Judon is a future starter on the defense who could be a 8+ sack pass rusher one day which is a valuable commodity. 

 

12 and 13 screwed us over. I think 10 hurts a lot but we're mostly past it. We've corrected some of those slip ups. 

[Maryland]

I enjoyed this podcast by Tony Lombardi interviewing Joe Hortiz. Pretty insightful

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/11/05/podcasts/ravens-scouting-process/

I found it interesting we're 1 of only 5 teams who don't use the National and Blesto scouting services (maybe we should lol). 

[RayRayRaven]

5 minutes ago, Maryland said:

I enjoyed this podcast by Tony Lombardi interviewing Joe Hortiz. Pretty insightful

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/11/05/podcasts/ravens-scouting-process/

I found it interesting we're 1 of only 5 teams who don't use the National and Blesto scouting services (maybe we should lol). 

fur sur we need to draft more good players

[ALPHA]

Without the plays and production of our 2012 rookies we wouldnt have won the Super Bowl.

[kjbmore]

15 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

But how do we keep neglecting the position. I just named 4 WRs(Perriman 1st, Moore 4th, Torrey 2nd, Doss 4th) in the last 6 years the Ravens have selected in the top 4 rounds, 6 total if you include the TE(Williams 2nd, Gilmore 3rd). In the same time period the Steelers drafted a total of 3 WR/TEs( Coats 3rd, Bryant 4th. Wheaton 3rd) in the top 4 rounds and none of them were higher than the 3rd round. Where are these guys who the Steelers are drafting that places an emphasis on the passing game where the Ravens aren't? Again the difference is they actually hit on AB and a defense has to give special attention to him which allows other guys favorable matchups. 

The Steelers just have a offensive system that allows those young guys to develop quicker because they are being given opportunities. They aren't relying on 1st and 2nd round talent, they just hit on AB and other guys don't have a a ton of pressure on them to perform. 

I think if Mike Williams is there he's a no brainer and everyone would love to have him. However at what cost? If you have to make a Juilio like trade to get him I'd say no way. If there is a playmaking FS or a guy like Marlon Humphrey at CB there I wouldn't trade up at all. I'd gladly add a play maker to this defense and target a guy like WR James Washington in 3rd or 4th round. That's just smart strategy to me. 

How do we keep neglecting the position??

Hahaha - You answered you own question - we've spent 2 picks in 6 years 5 years apart in the early rounds, yeah they were first and then 2 4ths again - years apart.

one of the most important groups on a team and that's all we're throwing at it - again we've spent the same amount of  picks on RBs in that time period and for what - we started Forsett, the last couple years and grabbed Terrence West of the scrap heap.

we went into a year with torrey & Jacoby = neglect

we grabbed Steve smith, we have torrey and Aiken - can't remember when we ditched Jacoby - expecting Steve smith to carry us when he's 50 is pretty optimistic, we snuck through, going into that year would have been a good year to spend some picks, knowing torrey was up for $$ and Steve smith was getting on

so torrey leaves and boom our high pick never sees the field and boom Steve goes down, cos he's 50 and were left throwing to Aiken 

The difference between us and the steelers is they have guys like Emmanuel Sanders and Antonio - they don't have holes there, yet they're still spending 3rd round picks on the position to maintain and be able to move forward when guys like sanders and Wallace leave

were waiting until we literally have to get somebody otherwise we'd have nobody to throw to

Edited November 6, 2016 by kjbmore

[kjbmore]

2 hours ago, Maryland said:

I enjoyed this podcast by Tony Lombardi interviewing Joe Hortiz. Pretty insightful

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/11/05/podcasts/ravens-scouting-process/

I found it interesting we're 1 of only 5 teams who don't use the National and Blesto scouting services (maybe we should lol). 

Who were the other sides?

[Edgar]

2 hours ago, ALPHA said:

Without the plays and production of our 2012 rookies we wouldnt have won the Super Bowl.

This should be the model post for making a point succinctly.

[Ravensfan23]

3 hours ago, kjbmore said:

How do we keep neglecting the position??

Hahaha - You answered you own question - we've spent 2 picks in 6 years 5 years apart in the early rounds, yeah they were first and then 2 4ths again - years apart.

one of the most important groups on a team and that's all we're throwing at it - again we've spent the same amount of  picks on RBs in that time period and for what - we started Forsett, the last couple years and grabbed Terrence West of the scrap heap.

we went into a year with torrey & Jacoby = neglect

we grabbed Steve smith, we have torrey and Aiken - can't remember when we ditched Jacoby - expecting Steve smith to carry us when he's 50 is pretty optimistic, we snuck through, going into that year would have been a good year to spend some picks, knowing torrey was up for $$ and Steve smith was getting on

so torrey leaves and boom our high pick never sees the field and boom Steve goes down, cos he's 50 and were left throwing to Aiken 

The difference between us and the steelers is they have guys like Emmanuel Sanders and Antonio - they don't have holes there, yet they're still spending 3rd round picks on the position to maintain and be able to move forward when guys like sanders and Wallace leave

were waiting until we literally have to get somebody otherwise we'd have nobody to throw to

Ok so it's clear that you're being just as reactionary as you accuse the Ravens of being. You continue to give me hindsight views and I'm clearly struggling to see your point. So let's make this the lost response and get ready to watch our boys pull out this win today. 

Nobody knew that Torrey would command #1WR money. The Ravens made an aggressive offer to him but was outbid by the 9ers. In 2013 the Ravens admittedly made a mistake letting Boldin go, they thought that the combination of Doss and Pitta could carry that chain moving role while Torrey and Jacoby stretched the field and Rice continued to create mismatches out of the backfield. Injuries and poor play by Doss ruined that. Pitta gets hurt first day of camp, Jacoby gets hurt first game of the season and Rice plays with a hip injury most of the season limiting his explosiveness. 

The next year 2014, the Ravens acknowledging there mistake with Boldin, go out and get SSS. SSS was brought in to be a veteran chain mover with the hope that Torrey would build on a 1,000 yard season and develop into a #1WR. He didn't and SSS carried the team, but that wasn't the plan. That same 2014 season, the Ravens thought that maybe Brown could be a decent #3 WR but also traded back into the draft to bring in Camp who they thought would be a great slot guy(slot WR don't typically go high in the draft). Again nobody expected Torrey to command the type of money he did in 2015 and Kubes to leave. Remember the Ravens couldn't hold onto 2 14 point leads in the playoffs. That's more of a defensive issue than offensive. But the Ravens still had SSS playing at a high level and they proceed to draft Perriman and Waller the following draft, while still looking forward to Camp staying healhty and being that shifty play making slot guy, plus Aiken came on late in the season. That 2015 season, with Kubes gone, the offense changes, SSS gets hurt, Camp gets hurt, Perriman gets hurt, along with Flacco and so many others. Who could predict that, and more importantly who would you have drafted to fix it?

The problem isn't the amount of attention the Ravens have shown to the position, it's the development of players they add to the position. If you want to see a team that could be accused of neglecting the WR position just look at the Chargers. Since trading for Rivers in 2004, they have drafted a total of 7 WRs and only 3 of them were in the 3rd round of higher with no 1st rounders. Since drafting Flacco in 2008 the Ravens have drafted a total of 12 WRs and if you go back to that same 2004 time frame they drafted 18 WRs, with 5 of those WRs being drafted in the 3rd round or higher and 2 first rounders. Again the issue, Vincent Jackson developed into a stud for the Chargers and they didn't have to worry much around the guys around him, while the Ravens haven't had a single WR develop in that fashion.

If Torrey developed into that #1 type, i'm sure he would have been paid here, if Perriman doesn't get hurt and he looks like a stud, we aren't having this conversation. If any of Mark Clayton, Devard Darling or Yamon Figurs who were all 3rd round or higher picks developed, we aren't having this convo. If Camp develops as a great or even very good slot like planned as a late round pick just as AB, are we having this convo? Watch a show like NFL matchup and you'll quickly become sick to your stomach watching how other teams scheme their players open, while the Ravens ask their guys to win 1 on 1 match ups all the time. Other teams develop WRs much better than the Ravens. I don't think the Patriots have hit on a single high round drafted WR since Brady and Bellicheck have been there, but they develop late round picks, UDFAs and UFAs to fit that system well.   

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Ok so it's clear that you're being just as reactionary as you accuse the Ravens of being. You continue to give me hindsight views and I'm clearly struggling to see your point. So let's make this the lost response and get ready to watch our boys pull out this win today. 

Nobody knew that Torrey would command #1WR money. The Ravens made an aggressive offer to him but was outbid by the 9ers. In 2013 the Ravens admittedly made a mistake letting Boldin go, they thought that the combination of Doss and Pitta could carry that chain moving role while Torrey and Jacoby stretched the field and Rice continued to create mismatches out of the backfield. Injuries and poor play by Doss ruined that. Pitta gets hurt first day of camp, Jacoby gets hurt first game of the season and Rice plays with a hip injury most of the season limiting his explosiveness. 

The next year 2014, the Ravens acknowledging there mistake with Boldin, go out and get SSS. SSS was brought in to be a veteran chain mover with the hope that Torrey would build on a 1,000 yard season and develop into a #1WR. He didn't and SSS carried the team, but that wasn't the plan. That same 2014 season, the Ravens thought that maybe Brown could be a decent #3 WR but also traded back into the draft to bring in Camp who they thought would be a great slot guy(slot WR don't typically go high in the draft). Again nobody expected Torrey to command the type of money he did in 2015 and Kubes to leave. Remember the Ravens couldn't hold onto 2 14 point leads in the playoffs. That's more of a defensive issue than offensive. But the Ravens still had SSS playing at a high level and they proceed to draft Perriman and Waller the following draft, while still looking forward to Camp staying healhty and being that shifty play making slot guy, plus Aiken came on late in the season. That 2015 season, with Kubes gone, the offense changes, SSS gets hurt, Camp gets hurt, Perriman gets hurt, along with Flacco and so many others. Who could predict that, and more importantly who would you have drafted to fix it?

The problem isn't the amount of attention the Ravens have shown to the position, it's the development of players they add to the position. If you want to see a team that could be accused of neglecting the WR position just look at the Chargers. Since trading for Rivers in 2004, they have drafted a total of 7 WRs and only 3 of them were in the 3rd round of higher with no 1st rounders. Since drafting Flacco in 2008 the Ravens have drafted a total of 12 WRs and if you go back to that same 2004 time frame they drafted 18 WRs, with 5 of those WRs being drafted in the 3rd round or higher and 2 first rounders. Again the issue, Vincent Jackson developed into a stud for the Chargers and they didn't have to worry much around the guys around him, while the Ravens haven't had a single WR develop in that fashion.

If Torrey developed into that #1 type, i'm sure he would have been paid here, if Perriman doesn't get hurt and he looks like a stud, we aren't having this conversation. If any of Mark Clayton, Devard Darling or Yamon Figurs who were all 3rd round or higher picks developed, we aren't having this convo. If Camp develops as a great or even very good slot like planned as a late round pick just as AB, are we having this convo? Watch a show like NFL matchup and you'll quickly become sick to your stomach watching how other teams scheme their players open, while the Ravens ask their guys to win 1 on 1 match ups all the time. Other teams develop WRs much better than the Ravens. I don't think the Patriots have hit on a single high round drafted WR since Brady and Bellicheck have been there, but they develop late round picks, UDFAs and UFAs to fit that system well.   

This is a very good post.  The ravens have tried to address the wr position,  we just don't draft/develop wrs well... St all.  

[Cillmatic]

This thread looks ridiculous now. 

[kjbmore]

11 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Ok so it's clear that you're being just as reactionary as you accuse the Ravens of being. You continue to give me hindsight views and I'm clearly struggling to see your point. So let's make this the lost response and get ready to watch our boys pull out this win today. 

Nobody knew that Torrey would command #1WR money. The Ravens made an aggressive offer to him but was outbid by the 9ers. In 2013 the Ravens admittedly made a mistake letting Boldin go, they thought that the combination of Doss and Pitta could carry that chain moving role while Torrey and Jacoby stretched the field and Rice continued to create mismatches out of the backfield. Injuries and poor play by Doss ruined that. Pitta gets hurt first day of camp, Jacoby gets hurt first game of the season and Rice plays with a hip injury most of the season limiting his explosiveness. 

The next year 2014, the Ravens acknowledging there mistake with Boldin, go out and get SSS. SSS was brought in to be a veteran chain mover with the hope that Torrey would build on a 1,000 yard season and develop into a #1WR. He didn't and SSS carried the team, but that wasn't the plan. That same 2014 season, the Ravens thought that maybe Brown (UDFA) could be a decent #3 WR but also traded back into the draft to bring in Camp (7th round pick) who they thought would be a great slot guy(slot WR don't typically go high in the draft). Again nobody expected Torrey to command the type of money he did in 2015 and Kubes to leave. Remember the Ravens couldn't hold onto 2 14 point leads in the playoffs. That's more of a defensive issue than offensive. But the Ravens still had SSS playing at a high level and they proceed to draft Perriman and Waller (6th round pick) the following draft, while still looking forward to Camp staying healhty and being that shifty play making slot guy, plus Aiken (UDFA) came on late in the season. That 2015 season, with Kubes gone, the offense changes, SSS gets hurt, Camp gets hurt, Perriman gets hurt, along with Flacco and so many others. Who could predict that, and more importantly who would you have drafted to fix it?

The problem isn't the amount of attention the Ravens have shown to the position, it's the development of players they add to the position.

Seriously since 2011, (prior to drafting Breshad) we've drafted - Tommy Streeter 6th - 2012, Aaron Mellete 7th - 2013, Camp - 7th 2014

How many 6th & 7th round guys & UDFA develop into much of anything other than depth and practice squad guys - at any position??

If you want to see a team that could be accused of neglecting the WR position just look at the Chargers. Since trading for Rivers in 2004, they have drafted a total of 7 WRs and only 3 of them were in the 3rd round of higher with no 1st rounders. Since drafting Flacco in 2008 the Ravens have drafted a total of 12 WRs and if you go back to that same 2004 time frame they drafted 18 WRs, with 5 of those WRs being drafted in the 3rd round or higher and 2 first rounders. Again the issue, Vincent Jackson developed into a stud for the Chargers and they didn't have to worry much around the guys around him, while the Ravens haven't had a single WR develop in that fashion.

If Torrey developed into that #1 type, i'm sure he would have been paid here, if Perriman doesn't get hurt and he looks like a stud, we aren't having this conversation. If any of Mark Clayton, Devard Darling or Yamon Figurs who were all 3rd round or higher picks developed, we aren't having this convo. If Camp develops as a great or even very good slot like planned as a late round pick just as AB, are we having this convo? Watch a show like NFL matchup and you'll quickly become sick to your stomach watching how other teams scheme their players open, while the Ravens ask their guys to win 1 on 1 match ups all the time. Other teams develop WRs much better than the Ravens. I don't think the Patriots have hit on a single high round drafted WR since Brady and Bellicheck have been there, but they develop late round picks, UDFAs and UFAs to fit that system well.   

yeah you keep saying im reactionary ok bud - if commenting on past events is reactionary you got me

everythings in hindsight when looking back on past events but yeah whatever - im simply offering my opinion in relation to our handling of the wide receiver position, in the context of this thread about poor drafting. you think we've thrown resources at it and they havent panned out - you're entitled to that opinion. im of the opinion that the resources have generally been inadequate, i dont necessarily feel hoping for 6th n 7th round guys to pan out is a solid strategy.

you keep saying we fail to develop guys, pointing at 6th and 7th round guys that havent turned into starters - im not shocked - their 6th n 7th rounders for a reason - how many teams are turning 6th & 7th rounders into starters or even contributors - historically what is the percentage of guys from the 6th and 7th that even make teams and make a contribution

we spent a 2nd on torrey - we seemed to develop him ok, he didnt turn into a #1 but hes a 2nd round pick, hes probably never going to be at that level,

we dont have anybody else to really point at and say yeah we can or we cant develop guys at a decent draft position - because we havent drafted anybody in a decent position (im just looking at the last 5 years or so)

nobody can predict  injuries but we've left ourselves so exposed - the front office is paid to assemble a roster and assembling depth is a part of that beacuse we all know injuries happen in the nfl but i think we're dropping the ball on receivers - we had to bring in givens last year at the death because we had no speed threat, how do we not have one single other active receiver on the team who can stretch the field - when thats our biggest weapon?

guess what happened - we went 1-6 to start the season - im just a results kind of guy and those results speak pretty clearly to me - we had other problems but our receiving corps was definitely a big part of it

if we were lighting the league on fire and dropping 30 on teams regularly id be inclined to think that the front office was doing a decent job and your view point had some merit - given that we've been in the bottom third in the league in scoring since the superbowl season - im leaning more towards inadequate to poor

the penny appears to have dropped though because we brought in mike wallace and drafted chris moore and we actually had a glut of receivers this year, hopefully thisstarts translating to points on the board

 

 

 
 

Edited November 7, 2016 by kjbmore

[The Raven]

Sorry for the bump, but check out Paul Kruger in the Saints game. He's a wrecking ball of the edge. He looks better than ever.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

On 11/6/2016 at 7:44 PM, Cillmatic said:

This thread looks ridiculous now. 

This thread has looked ridiculous before now.