Ravens Woes...4 Years of Poor Drafting-No Depth? - Brent Harris

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

16 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Cardinals - Floyd 1st 2012, Brown 3rd 2014, plus a few later round picks through the 5 year span

Throw in David Johnson in the 3rd 2015

All while you have one of the best receivers in the game.

Respect Arians as a coach. Cardinals when they're rolling are one of the most explosive offences around. 

 

Ok, so one. Thats not the whole NFL in the "modern" game.

Plus, if we took a guy 13 overall and only got what the Cards have gotten from Floyd, we'd be calling him an underachiever.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Ravens have an average B+ draft rating over a 22 year period (including the past 4 years).

http://ebonybird.com/2016/02/07/ozzie-newsome-grading-every-ravens-draft-class/

That's the highest average of any of the elite NFL front offices. Not bad.

[jazz1988]

On 10/31/2016 at 11:55 PM, kjbmore said:

How often are they pressuring the qb?? probably more than our pass rush at the moment hahaha

correas not receiving playing time cos he cant get on the field

could have picked up developmental lbs in the 5th round

high 2nd should be guys getting out there and making a difference - now

still remember this article

http://www.espn.com.au/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/201167/ravens-believe-they-have-three-first-round-picks-this-year

That's why the Ravens' second-round pick at No. 36 overall has a first-round feel. Baltimore expects one of their top-30 players to be there at that point in the second round.

"That pick to us should be a first-round type player," DeCosta said.

we came away with correa

 

 

 

 

 

Correa actually is getting playing time but he  wasn't  getting alot of snaps until the game against The Jets. He almost nearly had  a interceptions against The Jaguars and he caused a fumble against  The Jets. His pass rushing skills still need work but he look quite good as a edge setter  . Just because a player is drafted high in the second round doesn't mean that player is expected to contribute right away or will be able to contribute right away. Laquan Treadwell was drafted in the first round by The Vikings and he isn't doing anything right now or making a difference for his team but I guess he's going to be a bust.  

 

I don't know how accurate this information is but according to sportingcharts.com Yannick Ngakoue  has 13 quarterback hurries and Noah Spence has 3. Terrell Suggs has 5 quarterback hurries,Timmy Jerngan has 3,  and Zadarius Smith has 6. 

[kjbmore]

3 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Here's my thing.You definitely have to give Flacco weapons, but did the Ravens not attempt to do so? 

Not really in my opinion and when they have its been in a reactionary, last minute manner due to the sheer fact we'd literally not have anybody to throw to, we finished the season with Chris Givens, Kaelin Clay, Chris Matthews, Dan Brown on our roster at WR - yeah Steve went down but the guys 39 or whatever plays harder than most in the league - it's no shock, hoping a rookie was going to come in and play lights out, from the get go.

When we won the Super Bowl we had Boldin catching everything thrown his way, Pitta AND Dickson playing well and 2 deep threats in Torrey and Jacoby.

Boldin pretty much carries us and wins that Super Bowl for us and we don't pay the man - I remember looking at the box score, seeing him put 200 yards in his first game for 49ers - made me sick. Meanwhile joes throwing to torrey & Jacoby

Yes half of the side retired or moved on that year and the line wasn't great - or the more reason to keep your #1 weapon

we go 8-8, 5 of the 8 losses are one score games - I think having boldin around gives us a couple more wins - we maybe scrape in with 10 - 6, who knows what we could do then - we are the defending champs

the following year Ozzie wises up and realised torrey and Jacoby aren't going to cut it and brings in an alpha and surprise surprise we go 10-6 and blow up Pitt n then the patriots - which we should have won outside of some cheating n poor secondary play.

right there Ozzie should be doubling down and looking at what won us a SB, we deviated we couldn't even make the playoffs, we got back to it and we nearly beat the eventual SB winner.

nobody could foresee Perrimans injury but we needed to have more than one deep threat, Jacoby was a huge part of our SB side, his falling catch, up, spin TD, obviously throw in Pittas injury, I think you could see Steve Smiths injury coming - guy plays too hard and is too old now.

anyway we basically waited for the cupboard to be bare until we decided we needed to go the shop, grabbed whatever was on the shelf and threw in the pot and hoped it turned out OK.

would have much preferred if we kept Boldin, Torrey, Jacoby and along the way took some mid to later round shots, looking for speedsters and big possession type guys to work in with our group - so when torrey leaves or the wheels fall off Jacoby, or we decide it's the right time to move on from Boldin (wasn't right after the SB win) we have their replacement already in our system

much like Pitt did when Ward retired and Wallace left and then Sanders left 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

5 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Not really in my opinion and when they have its been in a reactionary, last minute manner due to the sheer fact we'd literally not have anybody to throw to, we finished the season with Chris Givens, Kaelin Clay, Chris Matthews, Dan Brown on our roster at WR - yeah Steve went down but the guys 39 or whatever plays harder than most in the league - it's no shock, hoping a rookie was going to come in and play lights out, from the get go.

When we won the Super Bowl we had Boldin catching everything thrown his way, Pitta AND Dickson playing well and 2 deep threats in Torrey and Jacoby.

Boldin pretty much carries us and wins that Super Bowl for us and we don't pay the man - I remember looking at the box score, seeing him put 200 yards in his first game for 49ers - made me sick. Meanwhile joes throwing to torrey & Jacoby

Yes half of the side retired or moved on that year and the line wasn't great - or the more reason to keep your #1 weapon

we go 8-8, 5 of the 8 losses are one score games - I think having boldin around gives us a couple more wins - we maybe scrape in with 10 - 6, who knows what we could do then - we are the defending champs

the following year Ozzie wises up and realised torrey and Jacoby aren't going to cut it and brings in an alpha and surprise surprise we go 10-6 and blow up Pitt n then the patriots - which we should have won outside of some cheating n poor secondary play.

right there Ozzie should be doubling down and looking at what won us a SB, we deviated we couldn't even make the playoffs, we got back to it and we nearly beat the eventual SB winner.

nobody could foresee Perrimans injury but we needed to have more than one deep threat, Jacoby was a huge part of our SB side, his falling catch, up, spin TD, obviously throw in Pittas injury, I think you could see Steve Smiths injury coming - guy plays too hard and is too old now.

anyway we basically waited for the cupboard to be bare until we decided we needed to go the shop, grabbed whatever was on the shelf and threw in the pot and hoped it turned out OK.

would have much preferred if we kept Boldin, Torrey, Jacoby and along the way took some mid to later round shots, looking for speedsters and big possession type guys to work in with our group - so when torrey leaves or the wheels fall off Jacoby, or we decide it's the right time to move on from Boldin (wasn't right after the SB win) we have their replacement already in our system

much like Pitt did when Ward retired and Wallace left and then Sanders left 

You could say we drafted Torrey as a reaction to Housh leaving, and Mason getting ready to retire.

Trade for Boldin. Housh leaves, draft Torrey, Mase retires, sign Jacoby.

Trade Boldin, Torrey leaves, Sign SSS, draft Perriman, sign Wallace.  

Yea the order changes by half a season here, half a season there. But in both cases 2 vets left the team, we drafted one, brought in a great vet, and 1 bargain FA.

[kjbmore]

14 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

You could say we drafted Torrey as a reaction to Housh leaving, and Mason getting ready to retire.

Trade for Boldin. Housh leaves, draft Torrey, Mase retires, sign Jacoby.

Trade Boldin, Torrey leaves, Sign SSS, draft Perriman, sign Wallace.  

Yea the order changes by half a season here, half a season there. But in both cases 2 vets left the team, we drafted one, brought in a great vet, and 1 bargain FA.

Yeah just feel that we've dropped the ball a bit since the Super Bowl and given that we finally have a guy that can carry us (with decent weapons) to a SB and we've seen it, it's not like we've got a Tannehill, Osweiller, Dalton and we're not sure - we know what Flacco is capable of.

if we'd been bit a bit more proactive in the last few years and def kept Boldin around, we might be talking perennial SB contender instead of wondering how high we might be drafting this year.

At the end of the day - the results speak for themselves.

8-8, 10-6, 5-11, 3-4

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Yeah just feel that we've dropped the ball a bit since the Super Bowl and given that we finally have a guy that can carry us (with decent weapons) to a SB and we've seen it, it's not like we've got a Tannehill, Osweiller, Dalton and we're not sure - we know what Flacco is capable of.

if we'd been bit a bit more proactive in the last few years and def kept Boldin around, we might be talking perennial SB contender instead of wondering how high we might be drafting this year.

At the end of the day - the results speak for themselves.

8-8, 10-6, 5-11, 3-4

Dude a hear ya, it sucks to have fallen off a bit...I think we all want to compete for titles.

But when you go 10-6, 9-7, 11-5, 10-6, 9-7 with AFCC, Divisonal, Division win AFCCG, wildcard win, SB Champs... its always gonna be hard. I talked earlier about our draft picks way back when.

When we were hitting, and our most famous picks (JO, Boulware, Suggs, Ngata, McAlister, Jamal, Starks, etc...) they were all top 10 picks. Thats how we built up the core.

When you go 7 years straight picking in the back end, and youve got a great team so youre regularly up against the cap - the job of putting out a competitive club gets harder, and harder, and harder. The league is designed that way.

 

So - i dont think its a matter of - we shouldve spent more resources on WRs, or TEs, or OL's, or pass rushers, or CBs.

I just think its a matter of, when you do that good of a job for that long... eventually it catches up with you. You eventually cant keep hitting home runs in the draft when the talent level falls off so far compared to others picking in the top 5. You cant keep paying every guy you do hit on, so even if you continue to draft well -- at some point your young talent starts walking... and if you sign one or two guys that either get injured, do something stupid and get cut, retire, fall off, etc... now your cap tied to resources that arent contributing and it exacerbates the situation.

 

All of that happened, and we still almost won a SB in 2014.

 

I think they know what theyre doing and theyre doing a good job. We're just so used to them juggling all 100 balls so easily, now that we're seeing 1 or 2 drop we're flipping out. And, you know... we're still just 1 game out of first, have a top 5 defense, and are a couple plays from being 5-2, 6-1. 

I mean, it could be better - but it could also be a heckuva lot worse.

[kjbmore]

40 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

 

Correa actually is getting playing time but he  wasn't  getting alot of snaps until the game against The Jets. He almost nearly had  a interceptions against The Jaguars and he caused a fumble against  The Jets. His pass rushing skills still need work but he look quite good as a edge setter  . Just because a player is drafted high in the second round doesn't mean that player is expected to contribute right away or will be able to contribute right away. Laquan Treadwell was drafted in the first round by The Vikings and he isn't doing anything right now or making a difference for his team but I guess he's going to be a bust.  

 

I don't know how accurate this information is but according to sportingcharts.com Yannick Ngakoue  has 13 quarterback hurries and Noah Spence has 3. Terrell Suggs has 5 quarterback hurries,Timmy Jerngan has 3,  and Zadarius Smith has 6. 

So Yannick a MD pass rusher, taken one pick ahead of Bronson 'I turn 26 before I've played an NFL snap' Kaufusi is ranked in the Top 15, meanwhile we've got nobody in the top 50 - ZDS is tied 67th with 6, Suggs 'I've got one good arm and I'm getting too old' is tied 91st

We need all the help we can get

hopefully judon starts getting more playing time

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

4 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

So Yannick a MD pass rusher, taken one pick ahead of Bronson 'I turn 26 before I've played an NFL snap' Kaufusi is ranked in the Top 15, meanwhile we've got nobody in the top 50 - ZDS is tied 67th with 6, Suggs 'I've got one good arm and I'm getting too old' is tied 91st

We need all the help we can get

hopefully judon starts getting more playing time

Yannick is playing DE and is only being asked to rush the passer. Our guys are asked to do much, much more... drop into coverage, seal the edge, etc...

[Ravensfan23]

28 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

would have much preferred if we kept Boldin, Torrey, Jacoby and along the way took some mid to later round shots, looking for speedsters and big possession type guys to work in with our group - so when torrey leaves or the wheels fall off Jacoby, or we decide it's the right time to move on from Boldin (wasn't right after the SB win) we have their replacement already in our system

much like Pitt did when Ward retired and Wallace left and then Sanders left 

The problem with this is that, this is you being reactionary. You are basis your opinion off of things you already know. The Ravens came out and all but said letting Boldin go was a mistake. They though he was done and they had guys who could take over. 

You say not like Pitt did when Ward retired, well let's look at it. Hines Ward retired in 2011 and his play started to dip in 2010. Mike Wallace was drafted in the 3rd round of 2009. Sanders and Brown in the 3rd and 6th rounds respectively in 2010. 

Derrick Mason was released in 2011. In 2008 the Ravens drafted Marcus Smith in the 3rd and Justin Harper in the 7th rounds. Not much different from what the Steelers did with Sanders and Brown. In 2010, the season before Mason and Heap are released, the Ravens make a trade for Boldin, draft Dickson, Pitta and Reed in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds respectively. Now Mason is released in 2011, but before releasing him, they draft Torrey Smith in the 2nd and Tandon Doss in the 4th round of the 2011 draft. In 2012 the Ravens sign Jacoby and draft a big bodied WR Tommy Steeter in the 6th round. Than of course before losing Torrey they draft Camp followed by Perriman and Waller. 

The problem for the Ravens is that none of the guys they brought in turned into the type of WR that the 6th round Antonio Brown is. It's not that the Steelers put more emphasis on the WR position than the Ravens it's that they actually hit on one of those drafted guys thus being able to build around him. I mean lets be honest. If Tandon Doss turned into the strong handed, big bodied WR the Ravens were hoping are you feeling the same way? If David Reed played half as well as Mason or SSS plays, are we having this convo? If the 6'2 217 pound Aaron Mellette played even close to what Boldin did. If Camp isn't hurt ever year and he plays to the potential we've seen how much better do things look? Hindsight is great, but the decision makers don't have the advantage of hindsight.

imo Cam and Hostler did a terrible job developing young WRs as most didn't even get a chance to play unless there was injury. As soon as a new offense came in and Engram took over, younger WRs started stepping up. The Steelers give their young WRs opportunities to go out and play, basically failing forward. I don't think drafting was the issue, I think it was a player development issue more than anything but those late round WRs is basically the same thing the Steelers did to built their group up. 

[usmccharles]

47 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Yeah just feel that we've dropped the ball a bit since the Super Bowl and given that we finally have a guy that can carry us (with decent weapons) to a SB and we've seen it, it's not like we've got a Tannehill, Osweiller, Dalton and we're not sure - we know what Flacco is capable of.

if we'd been bit a bit more proactive in the last few years and def kept Boldin around, we might be talking perennial SB contender instead of wondering how high we might be drafting this year.

At the end of the day - the results speak for themselves.

8-8, 10-6, 5-11, 3-4

While I wish we could of kept Boldin,  without that trade we aren't getting Doom.  So pick your poison.   I don't think too many people were happy that the FO was going to rely on Torrey to be our number one guy,  I wasn't.  Injuries are part of the game and sadly has cost us a lot, but with some bad luck here we lay. In 14' I think we get past the pats we win it all.  

Im not on board with getting those elite wrs,  I'd rather a well rounded corps just like our 12' team.   If we had a young wr turn into an elite one great,  but don't forget he's going to want 12+ mill a year once his contract is up and I don't think that's a smart way to build a team.   We just haven't drafted wrs well and we obviously can't develop them.  

[Edgar]

4 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

You're right on Treadwell... but that only exacerbates the point. Hes was the consensus best receiver and hasnt done jack. Now, he definitely could turn out to be great - im not one to judge a draft pick this early. But as another teams who fits the criteria, as of now the returns are insignificant really... and to further it, their best WR pick came in later rounds.

I guess my thing is this - yes, the elite of the elite WRs tend to be taken more frequently in the 1st. Beckham, DT, Megatron, Cooks, Dez, Evans, Cooper, Hopkins, Julio, etc...

It's much more rare to find that elite guy, like a Brown, late in the draft.

But, its rare to find those guys period. Youre lucky if maybe 1 guy per draft reaches that level. And, being lucky enough to be the team that gets the guy who becomes the legit #1 game breaker is slim and none. It significantly increases if you're in say, the top 10, but even then theres an element of luck involved.

However, and id have to dig into this more to really prove it, the rate of return for guys that become solid contributors... guys who play a pretty significant role on competitive teams... your low end #1's, good #2's, slot guys, etc... seem to come just as regularly out of the middle to late rounds, as they do at the top.

And, since we've never really been in position (outside of Dez) to really get any of the elite of the elite guys that were viewed as sure things, or wouldve had to give up a boat load of picks to acquire one (like Atl... which btw set them back a good 4-5 years) it just doesnt make sense to keep firing our best shots and hoping.

We took a shot on Perriman, partially bc he fell in our lap, partially bc all our higher rated players were taken, and partially bc of need. But, hes a guy that fits the prototype of what the Elite Receivers have looked and played like. So, when that chance is there we've pulled the trigger.

Otherwise, we've taken upside guys late. And it hasnt panned out very well most of the team, but it hasnt panned out very well for the teams investing higher picks either. Chris Moore or Wheaton? Idk. I bet Moore would do better next to Brown than Wheaton has honestly. Perriman or Coates? Neithers had enough time, but Perrimans at least shown flashes of being an elite receiver. Doing things most cant.

 

We've been a successful, winning franchise, even in the modern game doing it the way we have. Taking a shot at a WR high in the draft when we think hes worth it, and otherwise supplementing the offense with late developmental picks and vet FA's. It's worked. And, I think, still works with health, and consistency on offense. I mean - Mason, Housh to an extent, Boldin and SSS all were wins imo. And the stretch from Mason to Boldin was largely bc our QB and weapons had a consistent offensive philosophy in which to grow together. We knew the exact skill set we wanted in our WR, and what would be successful.

It's not a coincidence we went right after Boldin once Mase was gone... and then to SSS once we let Boldin go. And, if not for the injuries, SSS would be one of the best WRs in the league the past 2 years.

I'm pretty sure the Saints, Bills, Eagles,Jaguars, Panthers, Colts,Titans and Seahawks have also drafted wideouts in rounds 1-3 of late. Bengals as well if you go back to 2013 (Sanu). 

I may have missed some in there. 

It is interesting that out of all the big name receivers you named, not a one has a ring.  Often, teams tend to become one dimensional and base most of their offense around one guy.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 minutes ago, Edgar said:

I'm pretty sure the Saints, Bills, Eagles,Jaguars, Panthers, Colts,Titans and Seahawks have also drafted wideouts in rounds 1-3 of late. Bengals as well if you go back to 2013 (Sanu). 

I may have missed some in there. 

It is interesting that out of all the big name receivers you named, not a one has a ring.  Often, teams tend to become one dimensional and base most of their offense around one guy.

Seahawks I believe only drafted Lockett in the top 3 recently... could be wrong though.

And, oddly out of those teams only the Panthers have really had success... and it was one year.

[Ravensfan23]

45 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

So Yannick a MD pass rusher, taken one pick ahead of Bronson 'I turn 26 before I've played an NFL snap' Kaufusi is ranked in the Top 15, meanwhile we've got nobody in the top 50 - ZDS is tied 67th with 6, Suggs 'I've got one good arm and I'm getting too old' is tied 91st

We need all the help we can get

hopefully judon starts getting more playing time

You don't know what Kaufusi would have been. He was hurt before playing a single game. Also Pitta was 25 before he took a NFL snap, what does it mean. Honestly you seem to have a hindsight approach to your opinions. Everything is all about stats. 

So what if Yannick is drafted here and he gets hurt defending the run just as Kaufusi did. Are you complaining about how the Ravens drafted a one dimensional pass rusher that wasn't tough enough to be a 3 down player? 

[Edgar]

2 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Seahawks I believe only drafted Lockett in the top 3 recently... could be wrong though.

And, oddly out of those teams only the Panthers have really had success... and it was one year.

Paul Richardson.(Seahawks).

A bit early to assess some of the teams and difficult to ascertain the effect of drafting WR high in any case.

Colts have had success, Eagles, Panthers, Bengals, seahawks as well.

[Drew P]

Well there goes Rashan Melvin 2.0 aka Will Davis

[kjbmore]

6 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

The problem with this is that, this is you being reactionary. You are basis your opinion off of things you already know. The Ravens came out and all but said letting Boldin go was a mistake. They though he was done and they had guys who could take over. 

You say not like Pitt did when Ward retired, well let's look at it. Hines Ward retired in 2011 and his play started to dip in 2010. Mike Wallace was drafted in the 3rd round of 2009. Sanders and Brown in the 3rd and 6th rounds respectively in 2010. 

Derrick Mason was released in 2011. In 2008 the Ravens drafted Marcus Smith in the 3rd and Justin Harper in the 7th rounds. Not much different from what the Steelers did with Sanders and Brown. In 2010, the season before Mason and Heap are released, the Ravens make a trade for Boldin, draft Dickson, Pitta and Reed in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds respectively. Now Mason is released in 2011, but before releasing him, they draft Torrey Smith in the 2nd and Tandon Doss in the 4th round of the 2011 draft. In 2012 the Ravens sign Jacoby and draft a big bodied WR Tommy Steeter in the 6th round. Than of course before losing Torrey they draft Camp followed by Perriman and Waller. 

The problem for the Ravens is that none of the guys they brought in turned into the type of WR that the 6th round Antonio Brown is. It's not that the Steelers put more emphasis on the WR position than the Ravens it's that they actually hit on one of those drafted guys thus being able to build around him. I mean lets be honest. If Tandon Doss turned into the strong handed, big bodied WR the Ravens were hoping are you feeling the same way? If David Reed played half as well as Mason or SSS plays, are we having this convo? If the 6'2 217 pound Aaron Mellette played even close to what Boldin did. If Camp isn't hurt ever year and he plays to the potential we've seen how much better do things look? Hindsight is great, but the decision makers don't have the advantage of hindsight.

imo Cam and Hostler did a terrible job developing young WRs as most didn't even get a chance to play unless there was injury. As soon as a new offense came in and Engram took over, younger WRs started stepping up. The Steelers give their young WRs opportunities to go out and play, basically failing forward. I don't think drafting was the issue, I think it was a player development issue more than anything but those late round WRs is basically the same thing the Steelers did to built their group up. 

i dont think its so much a case of me being reactionary - more a case of commenting on a situation in front of me, citing examples of success vs examples which havent been successful - im not paid to run a football team and assemble a roster - im merely on a forum adding my 2 cents

steelers are spending mid to high picks on a consistent basis - the guys you are throwing up are afterthoughts, we're taking them in the 6th & 7th rounds, we spend one high pick every 5 years and then throw a whole heap of afterthoughts at it and hope it works

if wed spent the same amount of picks in the first 4 rounds as we have on RB's - 4 or DE/DT - 6  as opposed to WR - 2 in the last 5 drafts - wed probably be in a much better place 

everybody knows its a passing league - we seem to be able to turn up udfa type guys to fill roles - like orr and pierce

one area we cant recreate that is receiver - so when we actually had a core that won us a SB - Ozzie and the rest of the FO were too prideful to get out of their own way and resign the second most important piece of that team - right player, right price bla bla - howd that work out for us

then we just keep neglecting the position but we've got a heap of mediocre running backs and defensive linemen in the wings

2012 -10th in scoring - 25pts/game - win a superbowl

2013 - 25th - 20pts/game

2014 - 8th - 25pts a game - playoffs, beat pitt, lose to new england (after being up 14 twice)

2015 - 25th - 20 pts a game

2016 - tied for 26th - 19pts a game ( I know how this story finishes and its not in the playoffs)

we've gone and added some pieces, hopefully they can start to come together - a core of perriman, wallace and moore could be our future but id happily spend a first round pick on mike williams and juice this thing up - if were not scoring points, we're not going anywhere

 

 

 

[JoeyFlex5]

8 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

You don't know what Kaufusi would have been. He was hurt before playing a single game. Also Pitta was 25 before he took a NFL snap, what does it mean. Honestly you seem to have a hindsight approach to your opinions. Everything is all about stats. 

So what if Yannick is drafted here and he gets hurt defending the run just as Kaufusi did. Are you complaining about how the Ravens drafted a one dimensional pass rusher that wasn't tough enough to be a 3 down player? 

reports stated that kaufusi was completely lost on every snap. like he looked like he didnt belong, possible redshirt candidate. 

now... ngakoue has overachieved, he was completely erratic at maryland, he  looked REALLY ugly at times, there was a reason he went in the 3rd, now was it the team he was on? who knows, but he looked really bad at times all on his own at maryland, i would have spent no more than a 3rd on him and he went before our 3rd rounder so... it is what it is. 

i didnt like kaufusi by the way, and i was upset with the pick but i figured the upside was good so i wouldnt complain too much.

[kjbmore]

13 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

reports stated that kaufusi was completely lost on every snap. like he looked like he didnt belong, possible redshirt candidate. 

now... ngakoue has overachieved, he was completely erratic at maryland, he  looked REALLY ugly at times, there was a reason he went in the 3rd, now was it the team he was on? who knows, but he looked really bad at times all on his own at maryland, i would have spent no more than a 3rd on him and he went before our 3rd rounder so... it is what it is. 

i didnt like kaufusi by the way, and i was upset with the pick but i figured the upside was good so i wouldnt complain too much.

That's not promising particularly when the guy turns 26 next year.

its just frustrating when the FO said we need pass rushers, can never have enough pass rushers so we draft KC & Kaufasi - when guys like Spence, Dodd, ogbah, nassib, Yannick were all within our grasp

here we are 7 games to the season and we can't get any pressure on the QB and our secondary getting picked apart again

 

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, kjbmore said:

That's not promising particularly when the guy turns 26 next year.

its just frustrating when the FO said we need pass rushers, can never have enough pass rushers so we draft KC & Kaufasi - when guys like Spence, Dodd, ogbah, nassib, Yannick were all within our grasp

here we are 7 games to the season and we can't get any pressure on the QB and our secondary getting picked apart again

 

dodd and ogbah were taken ahead of our 2nd rounder, takes 2 to trade, and both of them have been average at best thus far. 

spence was incredibly overrated and has done next to nothing. nassib had real concerns and is currently overachieving based on his college tape. same with ngakoue.  

correa has actually done very well when seeing the field, he just hasnt been pass rushing. the guy is a natural football player but hes in a 2-player position where there is already 2 veterans performing at pro bowl levels. if zach orr didnt pan out as well as he has, correa would be on the field as a starter and making plays, as he has done as a backup. 

the only discouraging things ive seen from correa so far are that he dialed down his intensity after the scuffle at the stadium practice, you cant kill the dog inside of you, let him loose! and the fact that he has gotten his block knocked off when engaged in the pass rush. as a traditional LB though the guy has looked really good. 

lets also not forget... we could be seeing a transition to the 43 once we finally realize suggs and doom are done for. with ZDS, judon, jernigan, pierce, urban, mosley, correa, orr, and even kaufusi if he ends up panning out, we have a solid looking 43 front, with correa being a guy that really stands out there.

[JoeyFlex5]

btw.. what ever happened to willie henry?

is he possibly the most overhyped ravens rookie of all time? i mean WOW has he not lived up to the hype.

[The Raven]

8 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

btw.. what ever happened to willie henry?

is he possibly the most overhyped ravens rookie of all time? i mean WOW has he not lived up to the hype.

I definitely wouldn't say he's the most overhyped Ravens rookie of all time. That might be Matt Elam or Torrey Smith, perhaps Courtney Upshaw. Michael Oher definitely comes to mind in the discussion of most overhyped Ravem/

Willie Henry has boat loads of potential. I have rarely seen his combination of size, strength, and speed. Same with Kaufusi. They're both athletic freaks. I think their struggles are two fold: 1. They succeeded on college on their athleticism alone, so their technique is lazy. 2. They may not be put in a position to succeed. Both are penetrating types. Willie Henry reminds me of Aaron Donald -- not in ability but in play style. Same with Kaufusi and JJ Watt. They are disruptors, but the defensive coordinator seems to prefer cloggers, which is outdated to me.

Kaufusi, I don't know. He's too old I think to really be effective for us in the long term. But Henry, once he learns how to use his hands, it is game over. If he and Jernigam realize their potential, we could have two dominant interior pass rushers. 

 

[January J]

9 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

btw.. what ever happened to willie henry?

is he possibly the most overhyped ravens rookie of all time? i mean WOW has he not lived up to the hype.

He's just been stuck behind the 8 ball. When your playing the same position as two studs Ofcourse your gonna be the perfect inactive candidate. Doesn't mean hes a bust or anything- his time will come.

[Deflated Football]

11 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

btw.. what ever happened to willie henry?

is he possibly the most overhyped ravens rookie of all time? i mean WOW has he not lived up to the hype.

I feel like that title belongs to Za'Darius Smith, AKA the next Pernell McPhee 

[Ravensfan23]

14 hours ago, kjbmore said:

i dont think its so much a case of me being reactionary - more a case of commenting on a situation in front of me, citing examples of success vs examples which havent been successful - im not paid to run a football team and assemble a roster - im merely on a forum adding my 2 cents

steelers are spending mid to high picks on a consistent basis - the guys you are throwing up are afterthoughts, we're taking them in the 6th & 7th rounds, we spend one high pick every 5 years and then throw a whole heap of afterthoughts at it and hope it works

if wed spent the same amount of picks in the first 4 rounds as we have on RB's - 4 or DE/DT - 6  as opposed to WR - 2 in the last 5 drafts - wed probably be in a much better place 

everybody knows its a passing league - we seem to be able to turn up udfa type guys to fill roles - like orr and pierce

one area we cant recreate that is receiver - so when we actually had a core that won us a SB - Ozzie and the rest of the FO were too prideful to get out of their own way and resign the second most important piece of that team - right player, right price bla bla - howd that work out for us

then we just keep neglecting the position but we've got a heap of mediocre running backs and defensive linemen in the wings

2012 -10th in scoring - 25pts/game - win a superbowl

2013 - 25th - 20pts/game

2014 - 8th - 25pts a game - playoffs, beat pitt, lose to new england (after being up 14 twice)

2015 - 25th - 20 pts a game

2016 - tied for 26th - 19pts a game ( I know how this story finishes and its not in the playoffs)

we've gone and added some pieces, hopefully they can start to come together - a core of perriman, wallace and moore could be our future but id happily spend a first round pick on mike williams and juice this thing up - if were not scoring points, we're not going anywhere

 

 

 

But how do we keep neglecting the position. I just named 4 WRs(Perriman 1st, Moore 4th, Torrey 2nd, Doss 4th) in the last 6 years the Ravens have selected in the top 4 rounds, 6 total if you include the TE(Williams 2nd, Gilmore 3rd). In the same time period the Steelers drafted a total of 3 WR/TEs( Coats 3rd, Bryant 4th. Wheaton 3rd) in the top 4 rounds and none of them were higher than the 3rd round. Where are these guys who the Steelers are drafting that places an emphasis on the passing game where the Ravens aren't? Again the difference is they actually hit on AB and a defense has to give special attention to him which allows other guys favorable matchups. 

The Steelers just have a offensive system that allows those young guys to develop quicker because they are being given opportunities. They aren't relying on 1st and 2nd round talent, they just hit on AB and other guys don't have a a ton of pressure on them to perform. 

I think if Mike Williams is there he's a no brainer and everyone would love to have him. However at what cost? If you have to make a Juilio like trade to get him I'd say no way. If there is a playmaking FS or a guy like Marlon Humphrey at CB there I wouldn't trade up at all. I'd gladly add a play maker to this defense and target a guy like WR James Washington in 3rd or 4th round. That's just smart strategy to me. 

[Ravensfan23]

15 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

reports stated that kaufusi was completely lost on every snap. like he looked like he didnt belong, possible redshirt candidate. 

now... ngakoue has overachieved, he was completely erratic at maryland, he  looked REALLY ugly at times, there was a reason he went in the 3rd, now was it the team he was on? who knows, but he looked really bad at times all on his own at maryland, i would have spent no more than a 3rd on him and he went before our 3rd rounder so... it is what it is. 

i didnt like kaufusi by the way, and i was upset with the pick but i figured the upside was good so i wouldnt complain too much.

Reports were also that Kamalei Correa was looking like a stud and would probably be a day one starter. Reports were that Terrence Brooks was having a breakout like camp, reports were that ZDS looked great and was primed for a breakout year, i don't think he has a sack in 7 games. Reports were that Jemery Bulter was a near lock to make the team, he's been cut 3 different times so far this season. I don't put much if any stock in reports because they come from guys who are paid to report what they see but that doesn't mean they know how to see the game well enough to know how well a player is doing or not. I tell people all the times, even coaches have to watch film of each practice to see how well or bad guys performed and i'm supposed to trust what some guy who looks like he's never played the game before and spends most of his or her time talking with other reporters on the sidelines. I'll pass. 

I can't say I was a immediate fan of the Kaufusi pick, but I understood the appeal. Can't remember who I was looking at during the 3rd round, but based on the things DeCosta was saying I definitely thought it'd be a DB. 

[kjbmore]

17 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

dodd and ogbah were taken ahead of our 2nd rounder, takes 2 to trade, and both of them have been average at best thus far. 

spence was incredibly overrated and has done next to nothing. nassib had real concerns and is currently overachieving based on his college tape. same with ngakoue.  

correa has actually done very well when seeing the field, he just hasnt been pass rushing. the guy is a natural football player but hes in a 2-player position where there is already 2 veterans performing at pro bowl levels. if zach orr didnt pan out as well as he has, correa would be on the field as a starter and making plays, as he has done as a backup. 

the only discouraging things ive seen from correa so far are that he dialed down his intensity after the scuffle at the stadium practice, you cant kill the dog inside of you, let him loose! and the fact that he has gotten his block knocked off when engaged in the pass rush. as a traditional LB though the guy has looked really good. 

lets also not forget... we could be seeing a transition to the 43 once we finally realize suggs and doom are done for. with ZDS, judon, jernigan, pierce, urban, mosley, correa, orr, and even kaufusi if he ends up panning out, we have a solid looking 43 front, with correa being a guy that really stands out there.

I think we could have gotten back into the first, work something with Seattle or Carolina - come away with 2 first rounders

[JoeyFlex5]

4 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Reports were also that Kamalei Correa was looking like a stud and would probably be a day one starter. Reports were that Terrence Brooks was having a breakout like camp, reports were that ZDS looked great and was primed for a breakout year, i don't think he has a sack in 7 games. Reports were that Jemery Bulter was a near lock to make the team, he's been cut 3 different times so far this season. I don't put much if any stock in reports because they come from guys who are paid to report what they see but that doesn't mean they know how to see the game well enough to know how well a player is doing or not. I tell people all the times, even coaches have to watch film of each practice to see how well or bad guys performed and i'm supposed to trust what some guy who looks like he's never played the game before and spends most of his or her time talking with other reporters on the sidelines. I'll pass. 

I can't say I was a immediate fan of the Kaufusi pick, but I understood the appeal. Can't remember who I was looking at during the 3rd round, but based on the things DeCosta was saying I definitely thought it'd be a DB. 

which tells you that ravens media overhypes players... so for the report to be that bad, he must have been REALLY bad

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, kjbmore said:

I think we could have gotten back into the first, work something with Seattle or Carolina - come away with 2 first rounders

possibly the most speculative statement ever made but ok. i JUST said it takes 2 to trade and the first thought is "but we could have traded" lol

[RayRayRaven]

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 8:50 AM, jimmypowder said:

So how many Pro Bowlers have we drafted in the last 4 years? Not many.Is Mosley the only one? 

Tucker was undrafted. 

an tucker is our best player