Ravens Woes...4 Years of Poor Drafting-No Depth? - Brent Harris

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, gtalk12 said:

 

to be fair, when Carl stepped in he played better than Timmy J who was dealing with a few minor injuries. He looked great out there and is now on IR. He would have helped our team defensively much more than an Urban would have. In fact, based on that small sample I would go as far to say that he may be our future DE at some point.

 

I still feel that a lot of the picks we have made just have not been on the field to matter

 

I never liked the Reynolds pick, not for what we need.

 

Elam played well his first year, as to what happened year 2 will always be a mystery to all of us. That being said, apparently his confidence was back and he was playing well enough to have the coaches talk him up. However, an injury kept him out...I believe it was a torn bicep?

I agree on most of your points but it is reasonably speculated that Carl Davis actually went to the "phantom ir" because he played horrible in the preseason. He was facing guys who will never sniff a regular season snap and was totally invisible. Considering his reputation of laziness and lack of desire to improve its a bad sign that he showed flashes as a rookie and then regressed so badly in year 2 that he did literally nothing against the soon-to-be stockbrokers and insurance salesmen of the preseason 4th quarters.

[The Raven]

Just now, JoeyFlex5 said:

I agree on most of your points but it is reasonably speculated that Carl Davis actually went to the "phantom ir" because he played horrible in the preseason. He was facing guys who will never sniff a regular season snap and was totally invisible. Considering his reputation of laziness and lack of desire to improve its a bad sign that he showed flashes as a rookie and then regressed so badly in year 2 that he did literally nothing against the soon-to-be stockbrokers and insurance salesmen of the preseason 4th quarters.

Yeah, I'm agreeing with this.

Carl Davis could have borderline Ndamakong Suh potential if he actually gave a damn. He's got size, natural strength, athleticism, and natural talent, but he's letting it all slip. He has all of the tools and he does nothing with it.

[gtalk12]

38 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I agree on most of your points but it is reasonably speculated that Carl Davis actually went to the "phantom ir" because he played horrible in the preseason. He was facing guys who will never sniff a regular season snap and was totally invisible. Considering his reputation of laziness and lack of desire to improve its a bad sign that he showed flashes as a rookie and then regressed so badly in year 2 that he did literally nothing against the soon-to-be stockbrokers and insurance salesmen of the preseason 4th quarters.

 

36 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Yeah, I'm agreeing with this.

Carl Davis could have borderline Ndamakong Suh potential if he actually gave a damn. He's got size, natural strength, athleticism, and natural talent, but he's letting it all slip. He has all of the tools and he does nothing with it.

 

I am still hoping he is who he showed us last year against starting NFL players and hope the pre-season was a mistake on his part. If he pans out to be who he was projected/showed he was our defense would be on a different level in my opinion

[Dewy101]

21 hours ago, Wildabeast88 said:

I get your point but what do Kruger, Smith, and Jones all have in common got overpaid and all are terrible were Jones and Kruger system players like all the LBs who got paid because they played next to Ray. Torrey wow has been awful and everyone on this forum crushed him for years 

The only player we should've payed was Pernell McPhee

[usmccharles]

51 minutes ago, Dewy101 said:

The only player we should've payed was Pernell McPhee

Paid him what? the same contract he got?

[ellicottraven]

My suspision is that it is a combination of not top notch drafting, poor player development vis a vis coaching, injuries and most of all either aging talent or lack of talent is to blame for us being a below average team in the NFL. A QB like Manning or Brady can mask bad teams, but we don’t have either. Joe is a good QB when he’s on and an okay QB on a ho-hum kind of day, but a terrible QB once in a while. In one word he’s ‘inconsistent’. Yes, we all like to point at his playoff success but then again, we haven’t made the playoffs lately and he’s one of the most important players to get us there. We shouldn’t be expecting Joe to improve to beoming the next Brady simply because this is his 9th year in the league. He is who he is and the Ravens need to make it such that he is successful. Protect him and give him a good running attack and he’ll perform well. He’s not a QB that can win despite those two elements and this year has shown us that very outcome consistently. Under pressure Joe simply fails to perform.

[Maryland]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I agree on most of your points but it is reasonably speculated that Carl Davis actually went to the "phantom ir" because he played horrible in the preseason. He was facing guys who will never sniff a regular season snap and was totally invisible. Considering his reputation of laziness and lack of desire to improve its a bad sign that he showed flashes as a rookie and then regressed so badly in year 2 that he did literally nothing against the soon-to-be stockbrokers and insurance salesmen of the preseason 4th quarters.

The only thing we can really hope with Davis is that getting IR'd sends a message that he's as good as gone next year if he doesn't start trying. Shame that a guy with that physical skillset lets it all go to waste by not trying. 

-----

I think that, in general, Ozzie and co. draft too heavily at lower-impact positions while under-drafting at higher-impact positions. Yes, interior DL and non-rush LBs are important positions, but they are not as impactful as edge-rushers, WRs, DBs, or RBs. We've not drafted enough of those first 3 positions imo, and the 4th one, RB, we've drafted seemingly one per year since Rice and missed every time (hopefully Dixon changes that). Even TE could be seen as a lower-impact position, considering we almost exclusively use our TEs for blocking outside of Pitta, yet we've drafted more at that position (4) in 2014 and 2015 than any other position. 

We always hear Ozzie say "you can never have enough pass-rushers," but you wouldn't know it from only drafting Z.Smith, Brent Urban, and John Simon from 2012-2015 (4 drafts), all of them being day 3 picks. From that same period, Terrance Brooks and Matt Elam are the only DBs they've drafted before the 3rd day of the draft--both safeties, no corners. From that same period, Perriman is the only WR they've drafted before the 6th round. They are ignoring the most impactful positions on the field, and missing when they do address those positions.

Bring some competition into the mix. Like others have said, take a page from the Bengals and Vikings and attack the draft to restock one of your weakest positions. Stop over-drafting at low-impact positions and get some edge rushers, DBs, and WRs. Imagine if we had attacked edge-rush with the same tenacity we did the TE position--we might be stacked at the position. And stop cutting good prospects because they aren't excellent on special teams... /end rant

Edited October 29, 2016 by Maryland

[gtalk12]

do we really feel like the Ravens are drafting the best player available?

[kjbmore]

Agree with everything Maryland said - it's absurd that we keep drafting d linemen when we so badly need pass rush and corners and the rest of the NFL is constantly adding dynamic WRs

sitting here talking bout Carl Davis might be a player 

Need guys on the roster now, who can help - God knows we have room for playmakers

[JoeyFlex5]

4 hours ago, Dewy101 said:

The only player we should've payed was Pernell McPhee

the guy who was injury riddled his whole time in baltimore and has continued to be injury riddled in chicago? yeah, lets keep handing out fat deals to players who cant make the field, that will get us back to contention in no time.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, gtalk12 said:

do we really feel like the Ravens are drafting the best player available?

we are and we arent. it can be heavily argued that stanley was BPA at 6th, plus he was by far the biggest need and pro ready player. correa wasnt a BPA but he was considered a good value especially after the 2 trade backs, it appears that we got enamored with his incredible burst and thought he could bring some much needed speed rush, the rationale is there but it isnt working out so far, as far as upside though he probably was the top guy on the board. kaufusi was highly coveted as a project and  was drafted in a prime spot for high upside project players even though i didnt like the pick. 4th round was without a doubt BPA. 

in 2015 our first round pick wasnt BPA but it wasnt far off. byron jones was without question BPA in my opinion, but he had question marks(ironically the same question marks as BP, workout warrior or player?) and the jury is still out. maxx williams was getting first round buzz all year and that obviously looked like a BPA move at the time and he sadly isnt panning out so far. carl davis was another first round talent, we took a chance hoping his laziness was just rumored, he was obviously the BPA there and i knew we were taking him soon as we came on the clock. 

in 2014 mosley, jernigan, and brooks all apppeared to be BPA where they were taken, and at the time we didnt appear to need any position except for safety. we passed on HHCD for mosley and id say mosley is the better player but our safety spot is still a problem so that can go either way, theres no debating who the better player/prospect was though. jernigan was far and away the BPA and we didnt think for one second that we needed a DT at the time, that was all value. 

we have a mix of BPA and reaching for need, and our reaches dont APPEAR to be major reaches at the time they are picked, they just arent panning out and playing up to their potential. i mean maxx williams looked like a freaking stud, he had vice grip hands and gave more effort than any player on the field, played with fire, played clean and fluid and smart, and was a willing blocker and laid his body on the line for the tough catch and came away successful very often, its really just ridiculous that we take these great prospects with great value and they turn out to be average at best or injured. the ravens have been so freaking unlucky lately.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Maryland said:

The only thing we can really hope with Davis is that getting IR'd sends a message that he's as good as gone next year if he doesn't start trying. Shame that a guy with that physical skillset lets it all go to waste by not trying. 

-----

I think that, in general, Ozzie and co. draft too heavily at lower-impact positions while under-drafting at higher-impact positions. Yes, interior DL and non-rush LBs are important positions, but they are not as impactful as edge-rushers, WRs, DBs, or RBs. We've not drafted enough of those first 3 positions imo, and the 4th one, RB, we've drafted seemingly one per year since Rice and missed every time (hopefully Dixon changes that). Even TE could be seen as a lower-impact position, considering we almost exclusively use our TEs for blocking outside of Pitta, yet we've drafted more at that position (4) in 2014 and 2015 than any other position. 

We always hear Ozzie say "you can never have enough pass-rushers," but you wouldn't know it from only drafting Z.Smith, Brent Urban, and John Simon from 2012-2015 (4 drafts), all of them being day 3 picks. From that same period, Terrance Brooks and Matt Elam are the only DBs they've drafted before the 3rd day of the draft--both safeties, no corners. From that same period, Perriman is the only WR they've drafted before the 6th round. They are ignoring the most impactful positions on the field, and missing when they do address those positions.

Bring some competition into the mix. Like others have said, take a page from the Bengals and Vikings and attack the draft to restock one of your weakest positions. Stop over-drafting at low-impact positions and get some edge rushers, DBs, and WRs. Imagine if we had attacked edge-rush with the same tenacity we did the TE position--we might be stacked at the position. And stop cutting good prospects because they aren't excellent on special teams... /end rant

ive personally always been big on taking the higher quality player at a low value position rather than a mediocre player at a high value position. id take jonathan allen over derek barnett in a heartbeat for example, we need edge rush but derek barnett has a lot of legitimate issues but still gets top 10 hype due to him being an edge rusher, jonathan allen is a DT/DE but without question he is the better player, probably the 2nd best player in the entire class, but due to him not bringing as much explosive edge rush he wont be valued the same. 

ive always thought that you can build your team by taking the blue chip players at spots like G, C, DT, LB, TE, and then once that core is in place you begin making moves to get those high impact guys, every now and then youll luck out and get a high value position guy later in the rounds and that can soften the process of building the skill positions. honestly i look at the cowboys, they did it right, they committed to building a line and took BPAs on the line regardless of positional value and suddenly the pieces fall into place with them getting prescott and zeke to carry the team and they lucked out with guys like cole beasley. the vikings too, they steady added pieces to the defense until suddenly theyre one of the best in the league, they put together a "decent enough" OL and got a few elite players like rudolph and harrison smith, then they lucked out with bridgewater and diggs way later than they shouldve went, and now theyre tearing it up with freaking bradford at qb.

if you have a weak roster and draft by BPA, you may  face some hiccups by having glaring holes, but once you build that core and one or 2 pieces fall into place, suddenly youre an elite team. we panicked to replace ray and ed and it set us back quite a bit. our line is in shambles because we have drafted on the line on day 3 every year since 2012.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

I don't have any problem with Brent's assessment of the draft 'youth movement'. There is a possibility that some of our drafted player's potential may never be reached, but that can't be characterized as "...draft poorly". For the most part no matter where you draft in the 1st 4 rounds it's a total roll of the dice with a little intuition and science sprinkled on top.

When you look at the fact that our Ravens have always been placed in the top 5 (or very least top 10) in drafting since the Oz era collectively, consistently by a large majority of NFL experts, the last 4 years don't change that at all. 'Depth' crisis? 4-0 in the preseason matching-up against other teams draft classes.

What Brent has seemed to leave-out is that it's chess - not checkers even when it goes as planned. There are some guys drafted specifically to fill the back-up roles (injuries, trades, suspensions, etc.). They can't really be assessed for lack of play. There are some that aren't played because of scheme changes before they even hit training camp. They have to be coached-up to fit those changes. Lastly, there are 2-3-4 year plans that sometimes pro-bowlers can emerge from based on retirements in free agency. Poor drafting - way to early to determine. There are very few pro-bowl caliber players from the last 4 draft classes and we have 2 and potentially 3 (with Stanley). Out of the last 4 classes - several aren't even on the teams that drafted them, injured or are on teams buried DOA.

Roll the dice, baby.

[Bandwagon]

33 minutes ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

 

Ravens have always been placed in the top 5 (or very least top 10) in drafting since the Oz era collectively,

Complete garbage I dont believe any of that

[Militant X 1]

20 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

no. torrey would never be antonio brown under any wr coach, ever. no wr in that draft other than torrey can do what antonio brown is doing. 

brown has unrivaled quickness and savvy, with possibly the best work ethic of any WR in the league, and an OC that uses him perfectly. torrey smith always has been and always will be a one trick pony, he can run fast and if your qb can perfectly drop the ball in his hands then he can make some deep catches, thats it, no coach can fix that, you cant coach body control except for a TINY bit, you cant coach hands, you cant coach tenacity and aggression, you cant change a players mental capacity, only load it with as much as they can retain. antonio brown has these things, torrey doesnt. 

our coaching staff hasnt developed anything of note recently, ill agree, but the comparison you used is really bad.

 I don't think so.

My comparison is based upon their "drafted positions".  That being Torrey taken in the 2nd rd, 58th overall and Antonio being taken in the 6th rd, 195 overall and the very huge disparity in their performance and production on the field over the past few years.  Sure, I already know about all of the "intangibles" that can't be coached up in a player.  Either you have it or you don't!  That's not my focus and never has been with this comparison.  Aren't the so-called "better" players the ones being drafted in the early rds?  Of course they are!  Brown fell to the Steelers in the 6th rd and with all things being equal; there is no way anyone can say that they knew he would turnout to be such a beast today or that their draftees would not do well.  The question again is; "Could it also possibly be "coaching" along with his intangibles that has catapulted Brown...a 6th rounder.....6th rounder mind you; into being a major superstar receiver in this league?  To me, it is a possibility and not something to be so flippantly discarded in reference to the Ravens coaching staff perhaps not doing a better job in coaching up their receiver talent.  The latter is the whole point of my personal comparison.  

 

Edited October 30, 2016 by Militant X 1
Spelling

[JoeyFlex5]

38 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

 I don't think so.

My comparison is based upon their "drafted positions".  That being Torrey taken in the 2nd rd, 58th overall and Antonio being taken in the 6th rd, 195 overall and the very huge disparity in their performance and production on the field over the past few years.  Sure, I already know about all of the "intangibles" that can't be coached up in a player.  Either you have it or you don't!  That's not my focus and never has been with this comparison.  Aren't the so-called "better" players the ones being drafted in the early rds?  Of course they are!  Brown fell to the Steelers in the 6th rd and with all things being equal; there is no way anyone can say that they knew he would turnout to be such a beast today or that their draftees would not do well.  The question again is; "Could it also possibly be "coaching" along with his intangibles that has catapulted Brown...a 6th rounder.....6th rounder mind you; into being a major superstar receiver in this league?  To me, it is a possibility and not something to be so flippantly discarded in reference to the Ravens coaching staff perhaps not doing a better job in coaching up their receiver talent.  The latter is the whole point of my personal comparison.  

 

i gotcha, just stating that its a massive outlier to use brown as your measuring stick. i wont argue our position coaching has been horrible. we have pumped out excellent DTs, solid RBs, solid OLs, and solid TEs, and everything else has been horrible. our pass rushers never pan out, our dbs rarely pan out, our wrs are absolutely horribly coached, its pathetic how bad our wr development has been, ill totally agree with that. its just that... i dont think brown is a fair comparison lol because by those standards every team in the league has garbage wr development.

[Maryland]

5 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

ive personally always been big on taking the higher quality player at a low value position rather than a mediocre player at a high value position. id take jonathan allen over derek barnett in a heartbeat for example, we need edge rush but derek barnett has a lot of legitimate issues but still gets top 10 hype due to him being an edge rusher, jonathan allen is a DT/DE but without question he is the better player, probably the 2nd best player in the entire class, but due to him not bringing as much explosive edge rush he wont be valued the same. 

ive always thought that you can build your team by taking the blue chip players at spots like G, C, DT, LB, TE, and then once that core is in place you begin making moves to get those high impact guys, every now and then youll luck out and get a high value position guy later in the rounds and that can soften the process of building the skill positions. honestly i look at the cowboys, they did it right, they committed to building a line and took BPAs on the line regardless of positional value and suddenly the pieces fall into place with them getting prescott and zeke to carry the team and they lucked out with guys like cole beasley. the vikings too, they steady added pieces to the defense until suddenly theyre one of the best in the league, they put together a "decent enough" OL and got a few elite players like rudolph and harrison smith, then they lucked out with bridgewater and diggs way later than they shouldve went, and now theyre tearing it up with freaking bradford at qb.

if you have a weak roster and draft by BPA, you may  face some hiccups by having glaring holes, but once you build that core and one or 2 pieces fall into place, suddenly youre an elite team. we panicked to replace ray and ed and it set us back quite a bit. our line is in shambles because we have drafted on the line on day 3 every year since 2012.

The first part of your argument gets down to specifics imo. (plus the first round is kind of a special case where everything is magnified--most of our problems come in later rounds, which is where most picks take place). The scenario as you described it seems unfair when you say "I would rather take a high-quality player at a low value position rather than a mediocre player at a high value position." Barnett doesn't seem like a mediocre prospect to me--he seems like an every-down 3-4 rush LB who needs to develop some pass-rush moves, but who already has the speed and strength for the pros. If we're sitting there with a choice of those two, it's not like you're reaching by taking Barnett just because he requires some development. Vic Beasley over Danny Shelton might be a good example--a really good NT who isn't going to rush the passer vs a rush-LB who might be too light to be an every-down LB. I'd take Beasley because rush LB is so much more impactful than a safe NT prospect. 

With all that said, I'd like to put this scenario another way, one that I feel is more applicable because it deals with the mid-rounds, where we make most of our picks. The scenario: we're sitting there in the middle of round 4. From a pure talent/risk perspective, the highest-quality player is a good blocking TE who will excel on Special Teams, but who will never be anything more than an average pass-catcher. The other choice is a Rush-LB who is not as good right now, he is not going to contribute on special teams, but he has developmental upside as a pass-rusher. In this scenario, would you draft the TE because he's the higher-quality player at a low-value position that we already have filled? Or would you draft the rush-LB because he plays a higher-value position despite not being as good of a player? It seems to me that our FO has been going with the safer pick at the low-impact position these past few years. My suggestion is that our FO should start valuing high-impact positions more than they have in the past, especially in the mid rounds--you might find more Matt Judons that way.

For the second part, building a starting OL is really important, so I wouldn't put that on the same lower tier as non-rush LB, interior DL, or depth TEs. Cowboys did very well to build their OL by spending multiple first rounders on their starters, and it's clearly paying off. I would be happy if the Ravens drafted a LG and/or Center high in this coming draft, since those are both important positions and considerable needs. I would not want them to draft a strong-side LB like Upshaw in the second round if there is a G or C of margianally lesser quality available, since those positions matter more and we need them more. 

BPA is a good principle to abide by, but if going BPA results in 4 depth TEs being drafted over the span of 2 drafts, then you might need to start doing some maneuvering either up or down to make it so that BPA matches up with need a little better.

[JoeyFlex5]

46 minutes ago, Maryland said:

The first part of your argument gets down to specifics imo. (plus the first round is kind of a special case where everything is magnified--most of our problems come in later rounds, which is where most picks take place). The scenario as you described it seems unfair when you say "I would rather take a high-quality player at a low value position rather than a mediocre player at a high value position." Barnett doesn't seem like a mediocre prospect to me--he seems like an every-down 3-4 rush LB who needs to develop some pass-rush moves, but who already has the speed and strength for the pros. If we're sitting there with a choice of those two, it's not like you're reaching by taking Barnett just because he requires some development. Vic Beasley over Danny Shelton might be a good example--a really good NT who isn't going to rush the passer vs a rush-LB who might be too light to be an every-down LB. I'd take Beasley because rush LB is so much more impactful than a safe NT prospect. 

With all that said, I'd like to put this scenario another way, one that I feel is more applicable because it deals with the mid-rounds, where we make most of our picks. The scenario: we're sitting there in the middle of round 4. From a pure talent/risk perspective, the highest-quality player is a good blocking TE who will excel on Special Teams, but who will never be anything more than an average pass-catcher. The other choice is a Rush-LB who is not as good right now, he is not going to contribute on special teams, but he has developmental upside as a pass-rusher. In this scenario, would you draft the TE because he's the higher-quality player at a low-value position that we already have filled? Or would you draft the rush-LB because he plays a higher-value position despite not being as good of a player? It seems to me that our FO has been going with the safer pick at the low-impact position these past few years. My suggestion is that our FO should start valuing high-impact positions more than they have in the past, especially in the mid rounds--you might find more Matt Judons that way.

For the second part, building a starting OL is really important, so I wouldn't put that on the same lower tier as non-rush LB, interior DL, or depth TEs. Cowboys did very well to build their OL by spending multiple first rounders on their starters, and it's clearly paying off. I would be happy if the Ravens drafted a LG and/or Center high in this coming draft, since those are both important positions and considerable needs. I would not want them to draft a strong-side LB like Upshaw in the second round if there is a G or C of margianally lesser quality available, since those positions matter more and we need them more. 

BPA is a good principle to abide by, but if going BPA results in 4 depth TEs being drafted over the span of 2 drafts, then you might need to start doing some maneuvering either up or down to make it so that BPA matches up with need a little better.

all good points. but danny shelton was an extremely overrated prospect to begin with and i said this at the time of his drafting, but i digress lol. i shouldve mentioned i was referring more to rounds 1 and 2 with that thought process, i like round 3 for high upside developmental guys, which is why i didnt like kaufusi as a prospect but i was ok with the pick because of his obvious upside, but late rounds i think is where you should go with the player who has the best shot to take the field(on offense or defense, not special teams, those guys fall into place often), so if youre in round 4 and it comes down to an edge rusher who has a good upside but is considered raw or a DT who is almost certain to have a heavy rotation role as a run defender, then really its just buyers choice. for example, and im gonna pretend we took judon in the 4th round for this example, we had a choice between a small school little known edge rusher in judon, or andrew billings who wouldve been a first rounder a decade ago due to elite run stuffing ability, judon was a relatively refined guy with ideal size but he faced lesser competition and didnt have elite burst, the risks there are obvious, andrew billings on the other hand is basically guaranteed to have a heavy snap count as a very good run defender and you hope he somehow develops some pass rush, either one works fine, one is higher upside and one is more a safe pick, buyers choice, and this is where pick distribution comes into play, if all your other picks were safe picks and you want a splash then take the edge rusher, if you want to beef up your run defense for cheap and you think youve gotten some impact from your other picks then take billings. may be an odd way to state the example but hopefully you get the point lol. im just saying that in round 1 you can establish a core of superstars by going purely BPA and getting the best of the best, and let the rest of the pieces fall into place, even if you have holes to fill. thats how we ended up with ray, reed, suggs, ngata, flacco, rice, grubbs, and KO all on the same squad.

[Maryland]

I guess the lesson here is that it's up to preference and specific scenarios. Each of us could probably generate historical examples of both sides of the argument succeeding or failing lol. What matters most in the end is that whoever you draft not be a complete bust like some of our recent picks.

[Militant X 1]

7 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i gotcha, just stating that its a massive outlier to use brown as your measuring stick. i wont argue our position coaching has been horrible. we have pumped out excellent DTs, solid RBs, solid OLs, and solid TEs, and everything else has been horrible. our pass rushers never pan out, our dbs rarely pan out, our wrs are absolutely horribly coached, its pathetic how bad our wr development has been, ill totally agree with that. its just that... i dont think brown is a fair comparison lol because by those standards every team in the league has garbage wr development.

Finally!  There it is!   

[Ravensfan23]

On 10/29/2016 at 0:43 AM, kjbmore said:

i feel like we (ozzie ) draft like we work free agency - on the cheap, trying to be smart and cute

we need corners and have for a couple years - we grab tray (rip) in the 4th, young in the 4th - looks like a baller though and canday in the 7th

we need pash rush - we just seem to sidestep the issue and grab a few players who might help but not seeing it

how about just spending a high draft pick and live with the results, not like were getting return on the picks that are being made

much like our contracts we're handing out - guys we are paying arent performing

how about packaging up some picks to move up and be aggressive - i know a handful of these are comp picks

think the front office needs to take a long hard look at our roster and truly understand where we are as a team - need start identifying blue chip talent and go out and get it, time to start paying up

think we'll be picking high again - happy with the stanley pick but hope we have more to show from the second and third than we've been coming away with last 2 drafts

 

Every high the Ravens have had over the last 4 years have come at positions of need. The problem is fans look at hindsight and want to make their decision while the guys paid it make those decisions have to do it real time. 

They needed a #1 WR they drafted Perriman high. After Pitta's injury you need a TE and draft Maxx high. Needed to replace the strength of your defense up the middle after Ngata, Ray and Ed left, the next two years you draft Elam, BW, Mosley, Brooks and Timmy all in the first 3 rounds.  

The problem is that every pick isn't gonna turn out to be a great or even good pick no matter how high the player is picked. Look at the Pats, as good as their passing game is, they suck at drafting WRs and TEs. It's just that they have a really strong system. The Ravens don't on either side of the ball. They change OCs every year and Pees doesn't really maximize the talent on defense imo. Not a bad coach, just not the best system imo. 

Some teams needs elite talent to get the job done. Like the Bengals and they do what they have to do to supply the team with that talent. While other teams like the Ravens, Pats, Steelers and Packers look to build their team with solid and smart players knowing that even superstar talent can be removed by gameplaning but if you build your team with quality talent you can consistently win without having multiple superstars on your team. The biggest issue with the Ravens is that over the last 2-3 years, injuries have really stunted the growth of some young players. 

[kjbmore]

Watching bears v vikings

Would happily swap ALL our 3rd & 4th round picks from 2015 for Stefon Diggs.

Carl Davis, ZDS, Buck, Tray - RIP

would have only taken one though.

here we are scratching around for a returner and saying we need playmakers, we need playmakers

oh yeah and he's from Maryland 

our FO feels like our secondary and our pass rush, just a few steps too slow

lets take a flier on a 4th round receiver THIS YEAR - hope Moore can be half the player Diggs has been

 

 

 

 

[Maryland]

I have a feeling Diggs' penchant for picking up unusual yet major injuries (Broken leg, lacerated kidney) knocked him down our board and other teams' boards. Plus he is a bit skinny for the position. 

Still, as anyone who has ever watched him play at MD knew, he was an exciting, dangerous runner with the ball in his massive hands, and he certainly had the quickness and route-running to get separation easily. Shame they overlooked him, especially considering we needed receivers, but what can you do. 

[kjbmore]

Yannick Ngakoue

another maryland kid we should have grabbed - just keep it simple, we need pass rush - get it

im not expecting anything from bronson - guy turns 26 next year before camp even kicks off, was always worried about him having a few years off - then he gets a broken ankle out for the season -  meanwhile Yannicks 21 this season and just getting started

i know he was taken ahead of our pick but just get crafty oz, god knows we have enough picks to play around with move up and grab him

easy to sit here in hindsight but guys like diggs and ngakoue are just matching up with what we need, theyre hometown guys and theyre on the board when we pick or close too, lets just Keep it simple stupid - grab them

just dont understand why when we have a need we dont just address it and hard - we double dipped on tight end - why didnt we do the same for our pass rush and corners - we can always pick up tight ends but areas which impact the game - we just whiff or dont address

we stay put in the draft and grab spence, kids coming on, we double dip and move up for yannick (maybe it took a 5th to move up to the top of the 3rd)- boom we've got our pass rush for the future, stay with young in the 4th got our slot, grab another corner in the 4th - keep looking at rashard robinson who dropped cos of off field flags - unless its domestic violence lets stop being so damn pc

we lose moore and henry - could live with that

 

[kjbmore]

6 minutes ago, Maryland said:

I have a feeling Diggs' penchant for picking up unusual yet major injuries (Broken leg, lacerated kidney) knocked him down our board and other teams' boards. Plus he is a bit skinny for the position. 

Still, as anyone who has ever watched him play at MD knew, he was an exciting, dangerous runner with the ball in his massive hands, and he certainly had the quickness and route-running to get separation easily. Shame they overlooked him, especially considering we needed receivers, but what can you do. 

if wed used a 4th or our comp 4th pick and whiffed i can live with it - exactly the kind of pick you have a swing for the fences, guy produced is a playmaker but had a couple freak injuries - not knees, not soft tissue problems 

lets take a flier, get him in the weight room and hope he recaptures some magic for us

we can pick up rb's, linemen and ordinary lbs any day of the week

[jazz1988]

6 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Yannick Ngakoue

another maryland kid we should have grabbed - just keep it simple, we need pass rush - get it

im not expecting anything from bronson - guy turns 26 next year before camp even kicks off, was always worried about him having a few years off - then he gets a broken ankle out for the season -  meanwhile Yannicks 21 this season and just getting started

i know he was taken ahead of our pick but just get crafty oz, god knows we have enough picks to play around with move up and grab him

easy to sit here in hindsight but guys like diggs and ngakoue are just matching up with what we need, theyre hometown guys and theyre on the board when we pick or close too, lets just Keep it simple stupid - grab them

just dont understand why when we have a need we dont just address it and hard - we double dipped on tight end - why didnt we do the same for our pass rush and corners - we can always pick up tight ends but areas which impact the game - we just whiff or dont address

we stay put in the draft and grab spence, kids coming on, we double dip and move up for yannick (maybe it took a 5th to move up to the top of the 3rd)- boom we've got our pass rush for the future, stay with young in the 4th got our slot, grab another corner in the 4th - keep looking at rashard robinson who dropped cos of off field flags - unless its domestic violence lets stop being so damn pc

we lose moore and henry - could live with that

 

Bronson was getting first round grades from certain teams according to some reports I seen  which i believe mainly came from rotoworld.com. I know Yannick is younger than Bronson but 26 is still young  and  it's not like the guy is turning 35 or 40. Ideally Bronson has more upside as pass rusher than Yannick it's ashame that he's out this season because he could probably help alot in the pass rush department. The season not over with and both Correa and Judon have plenty of time to grow as pass rushers and hopefully Doom makes complete healthy comeback.

[kjbmore]

15 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

Bronson was getting first round grades from certain teams according to some reports I seen  which i believe mainly came from rotoworld.com. I know Yannick is younger than Bronson but 26 is still young  and  it's not like the guy is turning 35 or 40. Ideally Bronson has more upside as pass rusher than Yannick it's ashame that he's out this season because he could probably help alot in the pass rush department. The season not over with and both Correa and Judon have plenty of time to grow as pass rushers and hopefully Doom makes complete healthy comeback.

let me know when correa starts getting to the qb, meanwhile yannick and spence are racking up sacks

[Maryland]

22 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

Bronson was getting first round grades from certain teams according to some reports I seen  which i believe mainly came from rotoworld.com. I know Yannick is younger than Bronson but 26 is still young  and  it's not like the guy is turning 35 or 40. Ideally Bronson has more upside as pass rusher than Yannick it's ashame that he's out this season because he could probably help alot in the pass rush department. The season not over with and both Correa and Judon have plenty of time to grow as pass rushers and hopefully Doom makes complete healthy comeback.

The thing with Kaufusi was his measurables were pretty nice for a 5-tech, but he really played kind of soft for a man of his size from what I saw--didn't get a lot of push on his bull-rush, got pushed too much vs the run. I hope he proves me wrong, however, and becomes an every-down DE, since we've been lacking depth at DE for years now. Hopefully his injury doesn't sap his speed like it did with Urban, since that's how Kaufusi seemed to win in college.

The criticism with Ngakoue was that he was all speed, and he couldn't convert speed to power. He was essentially projected as a DPR. Now we're seeing he's more than that in the NFL, but hindsight is 20/20. 

But comparing Ngakoue with Kaufusi is like comparing apples and oranges--one's a DE, the other a rush-LB (in a 3-4). We needed both positions at the time, however. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by Maryland

[jazz1988]

8 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

let me know when correa starts getting to the qb, meanwhile yannick and spence are racking up sacks

Noah Spence has 3 sacks in 7 games and Yannick has four. Sacks are cool but i definitely would like to know how often they are pressuring the quarterback . it's not like Correa has been receiving much playing like they are either .

Edited November 1, 2016 by jazz1988

[kjbmore]

1 hour ago, jazz1988 said:

Noah Spence has 3 sacks in 7 games and Yannick has four. Sacks are cool but i definitely would like to know how often they are pressuring the quarterback . it's not like Correa has been receiving much playing like they are either .

How often are they pressuring the qb?? probably more than our pass rush at the moment hahaha

correas not receiving playing time cos he cant get on the field

could have picked up developmental lbs in the 5th round

high 2nd should be guys getting out there and making a difference - now

still remember this article

http://www.espn.com.au/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/201167/ravens-believe-they-have-three-first-round-picks-this-year

That's why the Ravens' second-round pick at No. 36 overall has a first-round feel. Baltimore expects one of their top-30 players to be there at that point in the second round.

"That pick to us should be a first-round type player," DeCosta said.

we came away with correa

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2016 by kjbmore