Enough Webb?

[PurpleReign22]

Not sure if many feel as  i do but the past few games i haven't been the least impressed by webb. In all fairness i didn't expect him to be moved to free safety and play like an all pro but every time i've come across him on plays he looks extremely slow, doesn't look like much of play maker and even looks lackadaisical with his tackling. I don't see any kind of play that would warrant the current contract he's on or much less starting. I'll probably catch hell for this given the general opinion of matt elam is he is a bust and doesn't offer much but if he shows better tackling technique and better awareness, could he and should he take Webb's place in the lineup?

(i know he hasn't even gotten back yet but this is me hypothetically speaking if he does actually look better than the previous seasons)

[PurpleReign22]

not sure if there's already an on going thread on this i've been off the boards for quite some time, apologies if there's already one.

[redrum52]

For all the speed we seem to have added were still a slow team, if you ask me.  We could still use some athletes in the secondary.  This defense as a whole, I think will look very different  (starter wise) next season.

[Cillmatic]

12 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

For all the speed we seem to have added were still a slow team, if you ask me.  We could still use some athletes in the secondary.  This defense as a whole, I think will look very different  (starter wise) next season.

We added speed?!

[redrum52]

2 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

We added speed?!

Lmao... you know what I mean.

[PurpleReign22]

10 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

For all the speed we seem to have added were still a slow team, if you ask me.  We could still use some athletes in the secondary.  This defense as a whole, I think will look very different  (starter wise) next season.

pretty much my thoughts exactly, i just don't see a point in us trending toward going toward a youth movement on both sides of the ball really but keeping him back there he doesn't add anything to the defense, really the only reason i can think of him being back there is we didn't have a better option behind him and he wouldn't blow coverages because of his knowledge of the defense but that doesn't seem to do much good for the defense

[Tru11]

we need high IQ players.

those guys usually play faster and better then guys who have just speed and athletic ability.

 

[Cillmatic]

23 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

we need high IQ players.

those guys usually play faster and better then guys who have just speed and athletic ability.

 

Webb has very high football IQ, he's just not good physically.

[Rav'n Maniac]

Everyone knows how I feel about Webb, so I'll just leave it at that. With respects to the OP's question, I'm not sure Elam coming back would make us any better at this point. Elam is a better strong safety than a free safety and with that in mind it would mean we would have to move Weddle to free safety. My thinking is that would weaken us on the front end.

Webb should be backing up the #2 corner when we are in man coverage. If he slides his coverage to say the right hash instead of staying in the deep middle, we should be stronger in the back end. 

[BmoreBird22]

42 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

Webb has very high football IQ, he's just not good physically.

We need the mind of Webb with the athleticism of Brooks.

[Rav'n Maniac]

5 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

We need the mind of Webb with the athleticism of Brooks.

There ya go, a little brain transplant and we good.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, Rav'n Maniac said:

There ya go, a little brain transplant and we good.

Little gene splicing and editing.

[PurpleReign22]

39 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

Everyone knows how I feel about Webb, so I'll just leave it at that. With respects to the OP's question, I'm not sure Elam coming back would make us any better at this point. Elam is a better strong safety than a free safety and with that in mind it would mean we would have to move Weddle to free safety. My thinking is that would weaken us on the front end.

Webb should be backing up the #2 corner when we are in man coverage. If he slides his coverage to say the right hash instead of staying in the deep middle, we should be stronger in the back end. 

Elam is definitely better around the LOS but i'd prefer Weddle in that spot he's been playing at such a high level, as for Elam i think his mental makeup may not be on par with webb at all but athletically he is gifted, hasn't helped him much yet up to date if any at all but it'd be comforting knowing if we give up a catch that it's not getting taken to the house because none of our db's have the speed to make up much ground once someone has a few steps on them. 

[ALPHA]

We showed some semblance of a pass rush this week, if we can keep that up it will help.

[rmw10]

I really like Webb, but I think we have to move on after the season.  He's been solid on occasion for us, but simply doesn't have the speed to roam deep anymore.  As said above, he's a very smart player, but he just can't keep up physically anymore.

[kjbmore]

id like to get elam in at SS and throw weddle back out to free - worth a look

could be a tandem we can run with for a couple years - webb and his contract should be gone after this season

does anybody truly trust elam as our last line of defense - or can he actually be a playmaker back there

 

Edited October 26, 2016 by kjbmore

[Maryland]

5 hours ago, Tru11 said:

we need high IQ players.

those guys usually play faster and better then guys who have just speed and athletic ability.

So true. Terrance Brooks was really fast, but was late on every play because he lacked football IQ. Such a shame.

 

As for the OP, you're definitely not the only one getting frustrated with Webb's performance. Many of us here have noticed how he's often late to provide help over the top and makes a poor effort to tackle. Given his poor play, there is little doubt in my mind he's cut after the season is over, since 5.5 mil in base salary is waaay too much for a player of his caliber. I just hope Ozzie doesn't succumb to his loyalties and keep him, even if he accepts a pay-cut. He just doesn't seem to be worth a roster spot, though I say this with the opinion that keeping a young player with upside is preferable to keeping a declining veteran--if both are competing for a backup spot, that is, which Webb would be for 2017. 

Elam might actually improve our safety play, and I don't think it's far-fetched to say that. Though he looked bad his first 2 seasons, we've heard nothing but positives every TC since then. How much worse than Webb could he really be? The big knock on Elam was that he couldn't tackle, but Webb is rarely even in position to make a tackle anyway, so... yeah, I'm ready for Elam. At the very least, we'll get closure regarding whether Elam has a future in the NFL or not. 

[PurpleReign22]

13 minutes ago, Maryland said:

So true. Terrance Brooks was really fast, but was late on every play because he lacked football IQ. Such a shame.

 

As for the OP, you're definitely not the only one getting frustrated with Webb's performance. Many of us here have noticed how he's often late to provide help over the top and makes a poor effort to tackle. Given his poor play, there is little doubt in my mind he's cut after the season is over, since 5.5 mil in base salary is waaay too much for a player of his caliber. I just hope Ozzie doesn't succumb to his loyalties and keep him, even if he accepts a pay-cut. He just doesn't seem to be worth a roster spot, though I say this with the opinion that keeping a young player with upside is preferable to keeping a declining veteran--if both are competing for a backup spot, that is, which Webb would be for 2017. 

Elam might actually improve our safety play, and I don't think it's far-fetched to say that. Though he looked bad his first 2 seasons, we've heard nothing but positives every TC since then. How much worse than Webb could he really be? The big knock on Elam was that he couldn't tackle, but Webb is rarely even in position to make a tackle anyway, so... yeah, I'm ready for Elam. At the very least, we'll get closure regarding whether Elam has a future in the NFL or not. 

i can recall at one point in time webb actually used to be a sure tackler but it looks as if those days have come and gone he doesn't look willing at all and the thought of him roaming deep with that speed or lack there of scares me, i honestly feel like he is our weakest link in the secondary. Shareece is not far off but i'm sure none of us thought he'd be anything more than a serviceable with up and down weeks from time to time, webb however had the vote of confidence from the front office so there was at least some sliver of hope that he'd be at least semi dependable but that isn't the case. What good is his football IQ if he can't even get into position to make the play he diagnoses, just doesn't seem useful at all. I for one would rather see if the TC talk on Elam was all hype or if it was legitimate, maybe we can have a late breakout guy like GB has with Nick Perry this year.  

[usmccharles]

What's the consequences if we cut him in the off-season? 

[Maryland]

27 minutes ago, PurpleReign22 said:

i can recall at one point in time webb actually used to be a sure tackler but it looks as if those days have come and gone he doesn't look willing at all and the thought of him roaming deep with that speed or lack there of scares me, i honestly feel like he is our weakest link in the secondary. Shareece is not far off but i'm sure none of us thought he'd be anything more than a serviceable with up and down weeks from time to time, webb however had the vote of confidence from the front office so there was at least some sliver of hope that he'd be at least semi dependable but that isn't the case. What good is his football IQ if he can't even get into position to make the play he diagnoses, just doesn't seem useful at all. I for one would rather see if the TC talk on Elam was all hype or if it was legitimate, maybe we can have a late breakout guy like GB has with Nick Perry this year.  

Webb definitely used to be a good tackler. In fact, he was very willing to go up and tackle the RB in his prime years as a slot corner, which many attributed to his years as a safety in college. However, it seems like now, when a tackle is there to be made, he's taking poor angles, probably because he's too slow. 

[usmccharles]

11 minutes ago, Maryland said:

Webb definitely used to be a good tackler. In fact, he was very willing to go up and tackle the RB in his prime years as a slot corner, which many attributed to his years as a safety in college. However, it seems like now, when a tackle is there to be made, he's taking poor angles, probably because he's too slow. 

Guessing all those acl tears have something to do with it.  Just a hunch  

[PurpleCity5]

Unfortunately, we can actually do much worse than Webb. I think he's solid because we haven't given up big plays outside the last two games, but I think his time is done here. It's going to be tough finding a FS. 

[Rav'n Maniac]

8 hours ago, usmccharles said:

What's the consequences if we cut him in the off-season? 

2m in dead money, 5.5m in cap savings in 2017.

[PurpleReign22]

I've seen talk of the Colts having found their starters at both Safety spots in younger guys this year and that Mike Adams may be the odd man out he's someone we could trade for or bring in via free agency as i'm pretty sure he's on the last year of his contract, i'm not sure what it'd cost to get him here but it would probably help a ton. Although i have also heard that this draft class is pretty deep at safety but bringing in a proven guy is just so enticing. Can't see Oz making that move but i can dream.

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

2m in dead money, 5.5m in cap savings in 2017.

 

10 hours ago, usmccharles said:

What's the consequences if we cut him in the off-season? 

I see no scenario where he's back with the Ravens at a $5.5M non-guaranteed salary. 

I'm not opposed to just cutting him and moving on, but I also suspect we're going to see a lot of cuts and have a lot of positions to upgrade, and I'm not convinced he's one of the more critical spaces to replace.

Personally, I think we try to either get him to take a paycut (like this season) that's more in-line with what an average safety in the league gets paid, or we do a shorter extension (maybe 2-3 years) with little guaranteed money and a lower cap hit. 

One way or another, I think they'll try to keep him while slashing his 2017 cap number down about $2-3M. Having Webb on this team at a $3-5M cap number is not a bad idea from where I'm sitting, even if he's not a starter.

I just think the FO likes him more than fans do...

[RavensFan34950]

I guess cutting Webb will solve all our problems on defense huh? By cutting him pass rush will magically form, Mosley will get healthy and play, and and Tavon won't be a rookie anymore. Yea Webbs the real issue here folks. If you thought we were giving up big plays before, just wait till we bench him for Elam lol. Last I checked, the ENTIRE DEFENSE got burned for that TD, including Weddle. Yea I don't see Webb as a problem. But he isn't worth what we are paying him, that I agree with.

[rmcjacket23]

28 minutes ago, RavensFan34950 said:

I guess cutting Webb will solve all our problems on defense huh? By cutting him pass rush will magically form, Mosley will get healthy and play, and and Tavon won't be a rookie anymore. Yea Webbs the real issue here folks. If you thought we were giving up big plays before, just wait till we bench him for Elam lol. Last I checked, the ENTIRE DEFENSE got burned for that TD, including Weddle. Yea I don't see Webb as a problem. But he isn't worth what we are paying him, that I agree with.

Yeah I don't think he's getting benched either. He hasn't been particularly good, but wouldn't say he's been particularly bad either. He's showed a lot more at the position than guys like Lewis and Elam have in the past and they had longer leashes.

Just think if things continue as is you're going to see some significant roster turnover in the offseason. A lot of veterans with low dead money and high cap numbers are going to be looked at very carefully to see whether they are worth being here on a team that could easily be looking to get younger in a hurry.

 

[VermontRaven]

35 minutes ago, RavensFan34950 said:

Yea I don't see Webb as a problem. But he isn't worth what we are paying him, that I agree with.

This is exactly how I feel about Webb.  He is doing an ok job...no reason to bench him...We do not have anyone better.  I think he will be gone after this season though becasue of his salary, unless he agrees to a big pay cut.

[Cillmatic]

The only safety prospect worth his soul this year is Jamal Adams, he'll be GREAT in the NFL.

[RavensFan34950]

33 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yeah I don't think he's getting benched either. He hasn't been particularly good, but wouldn't say he's been particularly bad either. He's showed a lot more at the position than guys like Lewis and Elam have in the past and they had longer leashes.

Just think if things continue as is you're going to see some significant roster turnover in the offseason. A lot of veterans with low dead money and high cap numbers are going to be looked at very carefully to see whether they are worth being here on a team that could easily be looking to get younger in a hurry.

 

Its guaranteed we will see a big roster turnover on both sides of the ball. If Webb doesn't agree to another paycut, he's gone as well as Wright. Question is, who do we replace them with next season. Nobody on the roster is capable of replacing Webb at this point. Only thing he has done wrong to this point is fail to make a couple open field tackles on OBJ. It's not like he's blowing coverages every game.