Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

[ellicottraven]

4 hours ago, The Raven said:

Brady is still in his prime, at what, 38? Not buying the argument that Flacco doesn't have much of prime left. QBs can play nearly forever.

It would be fair to say he might get dumped at end of contract, but I don't get the age thing.

Now suddenly we are comparing Flacco to Brady? I don't care how old Brady is, its unfair to compare him with Joe in any way.

[rmcjacket23]

5 hours ago, JonnyBaltimore said:

When you are the owner, you call the shots. So I'm not sure why it isn't a believable scenario, it happens all the time in organizations where people step over peoples toes.

 

No. The Owner doesn't have to step on anybodies toes, nor does he have to fire a coach without telling the GM, because the GM in a round about way reports to the Owner.

Given that the Owner answers to essentially nobody, he can simply walk into the GM's office, say "I'm firing Rex", and then walk out. The GM can complain about it all he wants, but it won't solve anything.

 

[ravensdfan]

7 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

We had RR and surely weren't going to take an RB in the 2nd round in 2013. 

Shazier?  I think we took CJ instead.

Like I said, other teams seem to find these hidden gems at WR in later rounds and the Ravens have failed at that. But they have done pretty well at D line and LB.

 

7 hours ago, gtalk12 said:

Did not need a RB at the time, Ray Rice was the guy

But wait a minute here now - when we complain about taking defense every draft, when we complained about taking the exact same defensive positions 2 years running, we're told - it's not NEED , it's BPA. So which is it?

49 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Did you watch Bell at Michigan State? This was all on the Steelers for player development.

No I didn't and development was also one of the possible problems I stated. I mean, it's just our players are so very not in the same league as these guys it's insane which makes me question how much of it is development. It honestly feels like a scouting issue. Then a hording picks issue when there is "that" guy available that would also fill a need and we just refuse to move up.

[JonnyBaltimore]

28 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No. The Owner doesn't have to step on anybodies toes, nor does he have to fire a coach without telling the GM, because the GM in a round about way reports to the Owner.

Given that the Owner answers to essentially nobody, he can simply walk into the GM's office, say "I'm firing Rex", and then walk out. The GM can complain about it all he wants, but it won't solve anything.

 

So why did the GM state unequivocally he did not know that the HC was fired? Anyone familiar with organizational structure knows this makes no sense. This is not a PR stunt as you claimed.

And the evidence and reasoning you have offered is not convincing.

Here is the article surrounding the circumstances of the firing of Rex Ryan. It is clear to me you have not done your due diligence:

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Bills-owner-outlines-reasons-for-firing-Rex-Ryan/fb3ef253-cba7-4776-b3eb-dd3cace2c3ea

"And he spoke shortly after Whaley held an end-of-season news conference in which the general manager said he had no idea Ryan's job was in jeopardy and had no input into the coaching change.

Pegula backed up Whaley's comments in his first interview since Ryan was fired on Dec. 27 and replaced by Anthony Lynn, who took over as interim coach.

Pegula said he made what he called "an executive decision" to fire Ryan during his weekly conference call with the coach and Whaley."

Edited January 17 by JonnyBaltimore

[RayRayRaven]

27 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Sounds great and all until you miss on those picks which is easily possible.  Keep dreaming though, your theories are entertaining .

4  number 1 picks in two  years is the key. what years is the question.

we trade flacco to clevland we can get two 1's . clevland may negotiate some with the overall number 1 this year. but the plan involves getting our own red rifle, sam darnold who is our qb of the future.  darnold will declare in 2018 or 2019, so we need to be ready to take him and the dealing joe to clevland puts us in good position both years, part due to a poor team from flaccos enormous dead cap

dont foresee being able to get 2 first round pics for joe after 2017 so this is the year its now or nevah

the plan does not allow for mis or overdraftin.  or tradin bac.  its not a plan for those that cant do their job 

[Passepartout]

Yeah as really Cleveland wanted him. It would take a lot of trades and draft picks. And money for Joe F!

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, RayRayRaven said:

4  number 1 picks in two  years is the key. what years is the question.

we trade flacco to clevland we can get two 1's . clevland may negotiate some with the overall number 1 this year. but the plan involves getting our own red rifle, sam darnold who is our qb of the future.  darnold will declare in 2018 or 2019, so we need to be ready to take him and the dealing joe to clevland puts us in good position both years, part due to a poor team from flaccos enormous dead cap

dont foresee being able to get 2 first round pics for joe after 2017 so this is the year its now or nevah

the plan does not allow for mis or overdraftin.  or tradin bac.  its not a plan for those that cant do their job 

Coming back to reality would be nice.  I understand your premise but its just not going to happen.  For one, lets say we make the trade, that still doesnt mean Darnald will be there.  The Browns would be a better team with Joe, thats just a fact, they will win more than other teams, theres always that issue. 

To me, it always comes back to surrounding Joe with adequate talent, which the front office hasnt really done.  Boldin and RR- Superbowl.  Torrey and SSr with a RB having a great year- should have beat the Pats and we end up in the SB because i think we would of destroyed the Colts.  Our FO has failed to draft skill at skill positions which is an obvious problem.  Even the best drafting teams in the league bust on early draft picks, yes we would have more of a chance on hitting on someone, but to me it would be a huge mistake.  

[The Raven]

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

Also, comparing Joe to possibly the greatest QB in NFL history is just foolish.  That would be like comparing Mike Conley to Michael Jordan because they make the same amount of money

And @ellicottraven 

I'm comparing longevity and durability, not talent. Uh duh. Joe is a big guy and QB's play for a while.

Edited January 17 by The Raven

[usmccharles]

2 minutes ago, The Raven said:

comparing longevity and durability, not talent. Uh duh

Its a package deal. 

[The Raven]

Just now, usmccharles said:

Its a package deal. 

Not really at all.

[usmccharles]

Just now, The Raven said:

Not really at all.

Brady wouldnt have been playing for 15 years if he wasnt a great qb.   Without even looking anything up, i doubt there is too many QBs that have been a starter for 15 years that were a average or below  talent wise. 

[Hardbaugh]

10 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

Now suddenly we are comparing Flacco to Brady? I don't care how old Brady is, its unfair to compare him with Joe in any way.

True. Brady has reinvented himself and has been a player than the offense has revolved around from the beginning. To go along with talent Brady has competitive fire and looks to be the type that will try anything to not only win but improve his game. I don't get that same impression from Flacco.  Flacco doesn't even have a pro bowl on his resume yet.

 

On another note-----

The guy is a mediocre quarterback that can succeed if the right pieces are around him. Most quarterbacks fit that profile. Flacco is a game manager and to the people that believe some team is going to give up multiple first rounders for this guy....LMAO.  That ship sailed after the Super Bowl offseason, the curtain has been pulled and Joe has been exposed for what some thought he was. The front office doubling down on that dumb contract instead of cutting the cord at the earliest opportunity is down right stupid.

 

Edited January 17 by Hardbaugh

[trevorsteadman]

1 hour ago, Hardbaugh said:

True. Brady has reinvented himself and has been a player than the offense has revolved around from the beginning. To go along with talent Brady has competitive fire and looks to be the type that will try anything to not only win but improve his game. I don't get that same impression from Flacco.  Flacco doesn't even have a pro bowl on his resume yet.

 

On another note-----

The guy is a mediocre quarterback that can succeed if the right pieces are around him. Most quarterbacks fit that profile. Flacco is a game manager and to the people that believe some team is going to give up multiple first rounders for this guy....LMAO.  That ship sailed after the Super Bowl offseason, the curtain has been pulled and Joe has been exposed for what some thought he was. The front office doubling down on that dumb contract instead of cutting the cord at the earliest opportunity is down right stupid.

 

Not even close. Brady also has had the same o-line coach, same system, and a bunch of talent around him his entire career. Same can be said for Peyton Manning. 

This main thing with offenses in the NFL is continuity. And the Ravens still have failed to keep continuity on their offense. Brady would definitely not be as good with the pieces Flacco has had his career. Almost every year you can look back and the weapons that Brady has had are better. 

Flacco is a solid quarterback. People give him a hard time but seriously his best weapon is a 38 year old coming off of an achilles injury and then reinjured himself so he couldn't be 100% basically any time of the last season. Even with Gronk out the Patriots have more pieces. Patriots have had continuity on offense and that is why even their back ups flourish in their system.

That is why the Ravens kept Mornhinweg. And that is why they tried to keep Trestman until it was half way in the season was to have faith the system he put in place would start working. But it was a terrible system. The Ravens need to find an OC for the long term. 

If Flacco was the issue players would start coming out and saying he is the problem and I don't think the Ravens would hesitate to eat the cap space and move on. Flacco is not the issue. The issue is the Ravens are bottom 5 every season at paying for weapons for Flacco. Those weapons only stay a short time. Every year in a different system.

 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

13 hours ago, RayRayRaven said:

4  number 1 picks in two  years is the key. what years is the question.

we trade flacco to clevland we can get two 1's . clevland may negotiate some with the overall number 1 this year. but the plan involves getting our own red rifle, sam darnold who is our qb of the future.  darnold will declare in 2018 or 2019, so we need to be ready to take him and the dealing joe to clevland puts us in good position both years, part due to a poor team from flaccos enormous dead cap

dont foresee being able to get 2 first round pics for joe after 2017 so this is the year its now or nevah

the plan does not allow for mis or overdraftin.  or tradin bac.  its not a plan for those that cant do their job 

Do you realize how much dead cap we carry if we trade Joe??

I dont know the exact numbers, but pretty sure we'd have to cut half the team just to move him... and then we'd have no talent on the roster to surround a QB with when you draft one with these #1 picks you're getting.

So, in essence, trade Joe to the Browns so we can become the Browns?? Makes sense....

EDIT: if we trade Joe in 2017, we carry $47.3 million in dead cap, or an additional $22.5m on top of his current cap hit.

We'd have to shed almost $8m in cap space just to get under the cap; let alone be able to sign anyone or our draft picks.

 

Edited January 17 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Do you realize how much dead cap we carry if we trade Joe??

I dont know the exact numbers, but pretty sure we'd have to cut half the team just to move him... and then we'd have no talent on the roster to surround a QB with when you draft one with these #1 picks you're getting.

So, in essence, trade Joe to the Browns so we can become the Browns?? Makes sense....

EDIT: if we trade Joe in 2017, we carry $47.3 million in dead cap, or an additional $22.5m on top of his current cap hit.

We'd have to shed almost $8m in cap space just to get under the cap; let alone be able to sign anyone or our draft picks.

 

Finally someone did some research and we can stop hearing this crap about trading him, its not happening.

[ellicottraven]

2 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Finally someone did some research and we can stop hearing this crap about trading him, its not happening.

I agree. Trading him till he finishes his contract here or maybe in the final year of his extension is the only choice left with the Ravens. I think the front office hedged their bets by extending him thinking if Joe starts playing well, he would command an even higher salary than the one they gave him via extension. In hindsight that was perhaps a mistake but now the Ravens are committed for good or bad. Let's collectively pray and hope that it was a good commitment!

[usmccharles]

5 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I agree. Trading him till he finishes his contract here or maybe in the final year of his extension is the only choice left with the Ravens. I think the front office hedged their bets by extending him thinking if Joe starts playing well, he would command an even higher salary than the one they gave him via extension. In hindsight that was perhaps a mistake but now the Ravens are committed for good or bad. Let's collectively pray and hope that it was a good commitment!

Considering how much market value will continue to go up for a qb, it still might of been a good move

[ellicottraven]

32 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Considering how much market value will continue to go up for a qb, it still might of been a good move

Yes but if Flacco continues to play poorly and not make the playoffs, he won't be paid like a top 3 QB like he is now.

Edited January 17 by ellicottraven

[usmccharles]

7 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Yes but if Flacco continues to play poorly and not make the playoffs, he won't be paid like a top 3 QB like he is now.

Agreed, but like I keep saying, if the FO gives him any type of weapons.....that would be nice

[Ravenseconbeast]

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Agreed, but like I keep saying, if the FO gives him any type of weapons.....that would be nice

Mike Wallace & SSS were 'any type of weapon' I'm sure.    Ask Aaron Rodgers or Brady if having Gronk/Nelson gave them any excuse to play poorly.

[Hardbaugh]

20 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Mike Wallace & SSS were 'any type of weapon' I'm sure.    Ask Aaron Rodgers or Brady if having Gronk/Nelson gave them any excuse to play poorly.

Plus 1 million... The seasons may change but the incessant excuses never stop from some.

[rossihunter2]

29 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Mike Wallace & SSS were 'any type of weapon' I'm sure.    Ask Aaron Rodgers or Brady if having Gronk/Nelson gave them any excuse to play poorly.

are you really equating sss and mike wallace to nelson/gronk - and lets remember that early on in the year rodgers struggled and it was blamed on nelson still recovering from his injury

[usmccharles]

10 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Mike Wallace & SSS were 'any type of weapon' I'm sure.    Ask Aaron Rodgers or Brady if having Gronk/Nelson gave them any excuse to play poorly.

SB year we had a top 5 rb, Torrey and Boldin, a elite RS and guess what.....Joe balled out. 

SSr's first year here we paired him with Torrey, what do you know he goes into NE and throws 4TDs and we had a good ground game. 

Year after SSr was our only play-maker and missed more than half the year which then Aiken 'set the world on fire' and we had no run game. 

This year, I don't even know what to say, SSr coming off one of the worst injuries, age and Wallace did fine.  Joe isn't Brady or Rodgers, but I would love to see Joe have those type of weapons. Joe regressed yes, coming off an injury and with a WR corps that couldn't get separation.   

 

[ellicottraven]

Well next year is a tell all in terms of who Flacco really is moving forward. He'll be 22 months removed from his ACL injury which is more than ample time for a full recovery and then some. Also, he'll have the same coordinator that he insisted on retaining so figuring out nomenclature and calls shouldn't be a problem. He'll have a running game in place and an effective O-line and quite possibly better WRs, either through the draft or free agency or simply by the ones we have getting better. 

So, if he continues passing the ball excessively to Pitta at 6 yds per completion and run the ball less than pass, we'll know that Flacco will not be a good QB for the Ravens. If however, he is able to play within himself, listen to his coaches and play smart and error free football, the rest of the Ravens team is talented enough to win us enough ball games to get us to the post season. Either way, we'll know because the real Flacco will inevitably show up.

[ravensdfan]

2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

Well next year is a tell all in terms of who Flacco really is moving forward. He'll be 22 months removed from his ACL injury which is more than ample time for a full recovery and then some. Also, he'll have the same coordinator that he insisted on retaining so figuring out nomenclature and calls shouldn't be a problem. He'll have a running game in place and an effective O-line and quite possibly better WRs, either through the draft or free agency or simply by the ones we have getting better. 

So, if he continues passing the ball excessively to Pitta at 6 yds per completion and run the ball less than pass, we'll know that Flacco will not be a good QB for the Ravens. If however, he is able to play within himself, listen to his coaches and play smart and error free football, the rest of the Ravens team is talented enough to win us enough ball games to get us to the post season. Either way, we'll know because the real Flacco will inevitably show up.

What really floors me about posts such as this is 2 things: 1. We didn't lose because of Flacco. He came through in clutch time. The defense collapsed and gave up 21 pts in the 4th quarter. And 2. please, spare me with these "weapons". If you watch any football outside of the Ravens and especially post season, you have to note our receiving corps, and our RBs, are not even in the same universe as the talent these other QBs have around them.

 

[flynismo]

I looooooooveee Flacco's new "Party Pooper" commercial

[trevorsteadman]

14 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

What really floors me about posts such as this is 2 things: 1. We didn't lose because of Flacco. He came through in clutch time. The defense collapsed and gave up 21 pts in the 4th quarter. And 2. please, spare me with these "weapons". If you watch any football outside of the Ravens and especially post season, you have to note our receiving corps, and our RBs, are not even in the same universe as the talent these other QBs have around them.

 

Well said.

 

2 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

are you really equating sss and mike wallace to nelson/gronk - and lets remember that early on in the year rodgers struggled and it was blamed on nelson still recovering from his injury

+1000000

 

[trevorsteadman]

Fans need to look downfield more during games instead of watching Flacco awkwardly move in the pocket. No one is getting separation. This has been an issue for years in the regular season. For some reason it gets a little bit better during the playoffs when the team goes to them. But still the Ravens have not yet successfully been able to put together a solid season offensively and Flacco is far from the only reason why this offense is struggling.

[Rav'n Maniac]

22 minutes ago, flynismo said:

I looooooooveee Flacco's new "Party Pooper" commercial

Here it is for those who haven't seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwtVkwr_Uss

 

[Purple Nurple]

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!

 

That's fantastic.