Joe Flacco: Tough Talk

[ravensdfan]

On 1/12/2017 at 7:18 PM, frozen joe flacco fan said:

You and some of your younger protégés need to wake up and smell the roses. There's a terrific musical out there that you might enjoy. Its called La La Land. I listened to the End of the Year rapper or presser or whatever that was and one thing is evident. The Owner is "bewildered", the Coach looks scared,the GM is clueless and, oh yes, there was Dick Cass who was probably wondering why he was there. So, you have a problem with my assessment of our WRs? Well, we're even 'cause I have a problem with yours. Except for Steve Smith, who was an absolute baller and Dennis Pitta, the Wide guys couldn't catch a cold. Now, I'm reading some posts which imply that Breshad Perriman will return next year as the #1 WR. If that's true, we're in a whole lot more trouble than anyone could have imagined. Isn't Mike Wallace returning? Also, did you listen to the GM's laundry list of needs? He wants a complementary WR. If I had been in attendance I would have pressed him on that one. Complementary to whom? That press conference was worst than the Cincy game. They may be sleepless in Seattle but it appears we're clueless in Baltimore.

You can't have it both ways. You said yourself that Joe's work ethic is next to none. He worked out at the Castle on days when others didn't even venture out in the snow. He'll do whatever it takes this offseason to improve upon his game. I'm more concerned about the work ethic of some of his receivers now that Steve's gone. Maybe we could draft the Clemson WR who is 6'-3" tall with a 40 inch vertical! He might be a complementary wide receiver. He made a nice catch on a back shoulder throw, which is something Joe is really good at. 

 

On 1/12/2017 at 8:38 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

No QB puts his team on his back and carries them, so I certainly wouldn't expect Joe to either. Much like every other QB in the league, he needs talent around him.

As I watched the playoffs so far one thing became quite evident - for all the talk about hitting receivers in stride, these guys on these top tier teams don't do that either. The difference? Their receiving targets jump, turn, run comeback routes, tip toe at sidelines, fight for the ball. We don't draft impact players period. We just don't.

Now, is that a scouting issue, an Ozzie issue, a develpment issue? I don't know but it is definitely a major issue. Our guys on offense are not just sub par talent to the weapons afforded these playoff QBs, they are not even within the same universe. This is a big, big issue and until we've found the problem and fixed it, not sure we see the big game again.

I do understand that some of that lack of impact players are a result of draft pick position - but a lot of these guys were available when we picked, and we passed them by. Which makes me lean more towards scouting and Ozzie issue. Sorry, love Ozzie as much as the next guy, but perhaps his method has become obsolete.

[BirdWatcher]

54 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

As I watched the playoffs so far one thing became quite evident - for all the talk about hitting receivers in stride, these guys on these top tier teams don't do that either. The difference? Their receiving targets jump, turn, run comeback routes, tip toe at sidelines, fight for the ball. We don't draft impact players period. We just don't.

Exactly!  I have a bad case of receiver envy.  We're lucky if our guys catch the ball when it hits them between the numbers. 

[rmcjacket23]

11 hours ago, JonnyBaltimore said:

-So the GM put out that story to save face at the expense of the owner? That's a pretty bad PR strategy for his longevity.

-Again, in the flux of uncertainty, you want flexibility. They have not made any decision yet. They just sat him to retain that flexibility. 

If I am Buffalo and my goal is to beat New England for the division title, I don't think Tyrod is that guy. He has his limitations.

Firing a coach mid-season is a bad PR strategy for literally everybody (GM, Owner, etc.). 

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, ravensdfan said:

 

As I watched the playoffs so far one thing became quite evident - for all the talk about hitting receivers in stride, these guys on these top tier teams don't do that either. The difference? Their receiving targets jump, turn, run comeback routes, tip toe at sidelines, fight for the ball. We don't draft impact players period. We just don't.

Now, is that a scouting issue, an Ozzie issue, a develpment issue? I don't know but it is definitely a major issue. Our guys on offense are not just sub par talent to the weapons afforded these playoff QBs, they are not even within the same universe. This is a big, big issue and until we've found the problem and fixed it, not sure we see the big game again.

I do understand that some of that lack of impact players are a result of draft pick position - but a lot of these guys were available when we picked, and we passed them by. Which makes me lean more towards scouting and Ozzie issue. Sorry, love Ozzie as much as the next guy, but perhaps his method has become obsolete.

Think it depends on the team. Without Jordy Nelson, I would want nothing to do with the Packers receiving core on the Ravens. Randall Cobb is a good player, but I would bet an absurd amount of money that a guy like Davante Adams is unbelievably less productive with a QB who isn't playing at a literally all-time great level right now. 

Same thing on the Patriots. With no Gronk, I have no interest in a Chris Hogan or a Malcolm Mitchell as a legitimate receivers on a Ravens team. Edelman is a very good player, much in the same mold as Cobb.

Steelers have a ton of good WRs and we know this already. My point is that they have playmakers at multiple levels. Dion Lewis is a playmaker. Devonta Freeman and Tevin Coleman are play makers. Ty Montgomery is a play maker. Antonio Brown, LeVeon Bell, etc.

Those are guys that make plays when their team needs them to make plays. We don't have a single guy on our offense right now that I think would come up big in a big spot. Not one that I trust.

[ravensdfan]

39 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Think it depends on the team. Without Jordy Nelson, I would want nothing to do with the Packers receiving core on the Ravens. Randall Cobb is a good player, but I would bet an absurd amount of money that a guy like Davante Adams is unbelievably less productive with a QB who isn't playing at a literally all-time great level right now. 

Same thing on the Patriots. With no Gronk, I have no interest in a Chris Hogan or a Malcolm Mitchell as a legitimate receivers on a Ravens team. Edelman is a very good player, much in the same mold as Cobb.

Steelers have a ton of good WRs and we know this already. My point is that they have playmakers at multiple levels. Dion Lewis is a playmaker. Devonta Freeman and Tevin Coleman are play makers. Ty Montgomery is a play maker. Antonio Brown, LeVeon Bell, etc.

Those are guys that make plays when their team needs them to make plays. We don't have a single guy on our offense right now that I think would come up big in a big spot. Not one that I trust.

Exactly! We do not pick these guys. We do not draft them. Sure, as stated, some are just not on the board come our turn, but many are and we pass them by. We simply do not match up on any level. Even RB. Don't get me wrong, I like our RB duo, but they are not on the same planet as Elliot or Bell. Something is broken and it needs addressed. And we can't address it as long as the FO is in denial of the problem. Another veteran WR - bah! Spare me.

Edited January 16 by ravensdfan

[Tank 92]

I agree about the WRs. Seems that every successful team has a couple of late round guys that if nothing else are sure handed and run routes. We're missing the mark there.   But RB?  Elliot and Bell were both high picks, so......

[JonnyBaltimore]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Firing a coach mid-season is a bad PR strategy for literally everybody (GM, Owner, etc.). 

Thats the point. It wasn't a strategy. It was done by the Owner.

You don't fire a coach and blame it on the Owner.

[flynismo]

On 1/14/2017 at 7:56 PM, JonnyBaltimore said:

Hey Joe, what have you done for me lately?

Not much...

And he might never have another one of those if he continues to play like he does in the regular season.

If you are happy with his regular season play, then that's on you. Jay Cutler has a better QBR than Flacco in the regular season. That says it all.

 

"That's on me"? What, you think my or your opinion actually means anything? Do you actually think we'll cut Flacco if enough people pretend Tyrod Taylor or Jay Cutler is better or something?

[JonnyBaltimore]

4 minutes ago, flynismo said:

"That's on me"? What, you think my or your opinion actually means anything? Do you actually think we'll cut Flacco if enough people pretend Tyrod Taylor or Jay Cutler is better or something?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But if you are asking me if my opinion will get management to cut Flacco, then my answer is no. This is only because I don't want to cut Flacco if you have actually read and understand my viewpoint.

The stats are the stats. Thats why we keep them. It no pretend. 

The only thing pretending is those people who blindly defend Flacco, thinking he is playing better than he is.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 minutes ago, JonnyBaltimore said:

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But if you are asking me if my opinion will get management to cut Flacco, then my answer is no. This is only because I don't want to cut Flacco if you have actually read and understand my viewpoint.

The stats are the stats. Thats why we keep them. It no pretend. 

The only thing pretending is those people who blindly defend Flacco, thinking he is playing better than he is.

Nobody is saying flacco is playing better than he is, we're imploring people to use some context which seems to be out of the question for many. Factor in things like 5 ocs in as many years, receivers dropping key passes, a severe injury, and a horrible and injured OL. 

Flacco probably has the hardest starting job of any qb on a competitive team across the league. 

[ravensdfan]

 

2 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

I agree about the WRs. Seems that every successful team has a couple of late round guys that if nothing else are sure handed and run routes. We're missing the mark there.   But RB?  Elliot and Bell were both high picks, so......

Bell was a 2nd rd pick so someone we passed on in that dreadful 2013 draft of ours. Know who we took instead? Elam. I mean, supposedly it's BPA and all that right? That says something.  Yes Elliot was gone before our pick so there is that I suppose. But they aren't the only examples nor is WR the only position.

We aren't hitting in the draft. Sure you can't call them failures - I get Stanley & Moseley are successful - but I was speaking impact players. Where are they since 2008?

And what is the "big solution" already stated? Oh yeah  yet another veteran WR on his last legs. Imagine if we gave up trying to just plug a hole so the ship doesn't sink and got a Smith SR or Boldin in his prime. Nope let's just keep on bailing out the water.

It isn't something I am saying we should do every draft but when there is a Dupree, Shazier, Bell, Elliott, Julio to be had - perhaps we stop hording useless picks and trade up. Just saying.

 

Edited January 16 by ravensdfan

[Tank 92]

46 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

 

Bell was a 2nd rd pick so someone we passed on in that dreadful 2013 draft of ours. Know who we took instead? Elam. I mean, supposedly it's BPA and all that right? That says something.  Yes Elliot was gone before our pick so there is that I suppose. But they aren't the only examples nor is WR the only position.

We aren't hitting in the draft. Sure you can't call them failures - I get Stanley & Moseley are successful - but I was speaking impact players. Where are they since 2008?

And what is the "big solution" already stated? Oh yeah  yet another veteran WR on his last legs. Imagine if we gave up trying to just plug a hole so the ship doesn't sink and got a Smith SR or Boldin in his prime. Nope let's just keep on bailing out the water.

It isn't something I am saying we should do every draft but when there is a Dupree, Shazier, Bell, Elliott, Julio to be had - perhaps we stop hording useless picks and trade up. Just saying.

 

We had RR and surely weren't going to take an RB in the 2nd round in 2013. 

Shazier?  I think we took CJ instead.

Like I said, other teams seem to find these hidden gems at WR in later rounds and the Ravens have failed at that. But they have done pretty well at D line and LB.

[gtalk12]

all this crying about Flacco has forced to me to watch other Qb's who "hit their receivers" in stride and it's BS. Rogers threw a pass that was under thrown for a TD. His receiver adjusted his body accordingly and made the play. He then rolled into the end zone. I don't want to hear anymore how Flacco may over or under throw some targets, if you can make a play then make it. EVERY QB doesn't put it right in your hands, sometimes all they can do is give you a shot to make the play.

 

Why is this thread still going? what else can we possibly stress about Flacco improving and the front office putting better pieces around him. We know what must be done.

 

Every team left standing how a weapon with the exception of Rogers who's playing out of his mind.

[gtalk12]

55 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

 

Bell was a 2nd rd pick so someone we passed on in that dreadful 2013 draft of ours. Know who we took instead? Elam. I mean, supposedly it's BPA and all that right? That says something.  Yes Elliot was gone before our pick so there is that I suppose. But they aren't the only examples nor is WR the only position.

We aren't hitting in the draft. Sure you can't call them failures - I get Stanley & Moseley are successful - but I was speaking impact players. Where are they since 2008?

And what is the "big solution" already stated? Oh yeah  yet another veteran WR on his last legs. Imagine if we gave up trying to just plug a hole so the ship doesn't sink and got a Smith SR or Boldin in his prime. Nope let's just keep on bailing out the water.

It isn't something I am saying we should do every draft but when there is a Dupree, Shazier, Bell, Elliott, Julio to be had - perhaps we stop hording useless picks and trade up. Just saying.

 

Did not need a RB at the time, Ray Rice was the guy

[balfan23]

27 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

all this crying about Flacco has forced to me to watch other Qb's who "hit their receivers" in stride and it's BS. Rogers threw a pass that was under thrown for a TD. His receiver adjusted his body accordingly and made the play. He then rolled into the end zone. I don't want to hear anymore how Flacco may over or under throw some targets, if you can make a play then make it. EVERY QB doesn't put it right in your hands, sometimes all they can do is give you a shot to make the play.

 

Why is this thread still going? what else can we possibly stress about Flacco improving and the front office putting better pieces around him. We know what must be done.

 

Every team left standing how a weapon with the exception of Rogers who's playing out of his mind.

It allows mods to prevent having the Flacco debate hijack other threads and puts all such comments into one nice, neat, steaming pile. 

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, JonnyBaltimore said:

Thats the point. It wasn't a strategy. It was done by the Owner.

You don't fire a coach and blame it on the Owner.

Or it was done by a collection of people and the GM blamed the Owner, knowing that he too is likely to be fired soon as well.

Pretty much any scenario is more believable than a boss not knowing that his employee was fired.

[Rav'n Maniac]

50 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

It allows mods to prevent having the Flacco debate hijack other threads and puts all such comments into one nice, neat, steaming pile. 

Lol, can you just change the thread name to the Joe Flacco Steaming Pile? Tough Talk just doesn't cover it anymore.

Edited January 16 by Rav'n Maniac

[trevorsteadman]

Flacco doesn't have much of his prime left. The Ravens need to surround him with more talent or they wasted a good chunk of time to get another super bowl ring under their belt.

[JonnyBaltimore]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Or it was done by a collection of people and the GM blamed the Owner, knowing that he too is likely to be fired soon as well.

Pretty much any scenario is more believable than a boss not knowing that his employee was fired.

When you are the owner, you call the shots. So I'm not sure why it isn't a believable scenario, it happens all the time in organizations where people step over peoples toes.

 

[The Raven]

1 hour ago, trevorsteadman said:

Flacco doesn't have much of his prime left. The Ravens need to surround him with more talent or they wasted a good chunk of time to get another super bowl ring under their belt.

Brady is still in his prime, at what, 38? Not buying the argument that Flacco doesn't have much of prime left. QBs can play nearly forever.

It would be fair to say he might get dumped at end of contract, but I don't get the age thing.

[RayRayRaven]

1 hour ago, trevorsteadman said:

Flacco doesn't have much of his prime left. The Ravens need to surround him with more talent or they wasted a good chunk of time to get another super bowl ring under their belt.

this is the key concern. joe was effective as a developin qb, never a burner, just a steady playin qb. he got paid and believe it or not he is starting his 5th season on the mega deal. his numbers which aint everything are not good on the new contract.  he will be 33 this time next year. in fact today is his birthday. I know a lot about joe and though it will be painful in many ways the timin is perfect to deal him.  if we don't deal him and build these next two years we will have missed a great chance to turn the team around. but to understand strikin while the iron is hot an owner would have to understand the team is slidin and he don't understand that. he thinks we are on the verge of a superbowl. he thinks we've drafted like banasheez and he thinks we make good free agent decisions.  stevie b is standing pat

[Tank 92]

Flacco is a couple of playmakers away from returning to form. His mechanics and mental state were in disarray for much of this season which is completely understandable considering the knee injury. Ravens need to get a couple of impact guys going(Dixon, Perriman maybe?, FA, draft pick) fix the O line and all will be good. When that happens many here will eat their words.

If you can't see the lack of consistent O line play, receiving and run talent that has existed since 2013 then you aren't watching the Ravens play.

Edited January 16 by Tank 92

[RayRayRaven]

19 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

are you incapable of listening to facts? it is financially almost impossible to get rid of flacco before 2019

nuff sayd

two number one picks in 2017, two number one picks in 2018 and then our others 2 thru 7 at high draft position. then in 2019 likely another high draft position for 7 rounds.

cant be afraid of the boogeyman, unless happy with mediogre. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

I'm glad the fans don't run this team 

[rossihunter2]

25 minutes ago, RayRayRaven said:

nuff sayd

two number one picks in 2017, two number one picks in 2018 and then our others 2 thru 7 at high draft position. then in 2019 likely another high draft position for 7 rounds.

cant be afraid of the boogeyman, unless happy with mediogre. 

by almost - what i meant was not that it would be difficult but that it would be suicidal - yes we could do it but it would be crippling to the organisation - like not being able to afford to keep those picks that we amassed that you want us to have 

so you're so unhappy with ?mediogre? for one year that you'd rather us be terrible than ok

[JonnyBaltimore]

1 hour ago, RayRayRaven said:

nuff sayd

two number one picks in 2017, two number one picks in 2018 and then our others 2 thru 7 at high draft position. then in 2019 likely another high draft position for 7 rounds.

cant be afraid of the boogeyman, unless happy with mediogre. 

I would definitely trade Flacco for A. Rodgers but I know some Flacco Die hards would at least want Green Bay to throw in a sixth round pick.

[rossihunter2]

25 minutes ago, JonnyBaltimore said:

I would definitely trade Flacco for A. Rodgers but I know some Flacco Die hards would at least want Green Bay to throw in a sixth round pick.

But it won't ever happen because it would financially cripple both organisations

[BmoreBird22]

7 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

Bell was a 2nd rd pick so someone we passed on in that dreadful 2013 draft of ours. Know who we took instead? Elam. I mean, supposedly it's BPA and all that right? That says something. 

Did you watch Bell at Michigan State? This was all on the Steelers for player development.

[BmoreBird22]

6 hours ago, gtalk12 said:

all this crying about Flacco has forced to me to watch other Qb's who "hit their receivers" in stride and it's BS. Rogers threw a pass that was under thrown for a TD. His receiver adjusted his body accordingly and made the play. He then rolled into the end zone. I don't want to hear anymore how Flacco may over or under throw some targets, if you can make a play then make it. EVERY QB doesn't put it right in your hands, sometimes all they can do is give you a shot to make the play.

I think I know the play you're referring to (Richard Rodgers TD?) and you can't even argue that it wasn't an absolutely insane throw.

[usmccharles]

8 hours ago, JonnyBaltimore said:

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But if you are asking me if my opinion will get management to cut Flacco, then my answer is no. This is only because I don't want to cut Flacco if you have actually read and understand my viewpoint.

The stats are the stats. Thats why we keep them. It no pretend. 

The only thing pretending is those people who blindly defend Flacco, thinking he is playing better than he is.

This is what i dont understand, none of the Joe supporters are saying that he has been playing good or anything, we sit here and criticize him and you and the other haters ignore the negative things we say and just look at the good things we say so you can call us homers.  I support Joe moving forward, but Joe has to play better and all this talk of trading or cutting him is irrelevant, it will not happen. 

 

7 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

Bell was a 2nd rd pick so someone we passed on in that dreadful 2013 draft of ours. Know who we took instead? Elam. I mean, supposedly it's BPA and all that right? That says something.  Yes Elliot was gone before our pick so there is that I suppose. But they aren't the only examples nor is WR the only position.

Every single team passed on him, including the Steelers.  Also, we had RR so why would we take a RB in the second when we had a RB that was one of the best in the league....theres no logic to it

1 hour ago, RayRayRaven said:

nuff sayd

two number one picks in 2017, two number one picks in 2018 and then our others 2 thru 7 at high draft position. then in 2019 likely another high draft position for 7 rounds.

cant be afraid of the boogeyman, unless happy with mediogre. 

Sounds great and all until you miss on those picks which is easily possible.  Keep dreaming though, your theories are entertaining .

 

4 hours ago, The Raven said:

Brady is still in his prime, at what, 38? Not buying the argument that Flacco doesn't have much of prime left. QBs can play nearly forever.

It would be fair to say he might get dumped at end of contract, but I don't get the age thing.

Also, comparing Joe to possibly the greatest QB in NFL history is just foolish.  That would be like comparing Mike Conley to Michael Jordan because they make the same amount of money